Tips for getting *really* low MIDI latency?

usernamenumber · 01-11-2016, 08:04 AM

I have a set of drum pads connected to a recent MacBook Pro running Superior Drummer in Reaper. The delay between hitting the pad and hearing a sound is *almost* negligible, a fraction of a second, but it's audible and when you're playing with a live band as I am, it makes a difference.

I've looked around, and most of the advice I found had to do with lowering the media buffer size. Unfortunately I've lowered it all the way to 1ms, which impressively doesn't seem to affect sound quality, but also doesn't affect the latency.

I know the problem is something to do with Reaper, because if I use the exact same setup in MainStage the latency is gone, but Reaper is way more flexible, so I'd like to use it if I can.

Any ideas?

Failing that, does anyone have suggestions for a lightweight VST host that will let me do things like send each MIDI channel to a different VST? Obviously I don't need a whole DAW for live performances, but trying to do that in Mainstage is proving... frustrating.

usernamenumber · 01-11-2016, 08:11 AM

Hmm... it did just occur to me that there is one difference between the Reaper and Mainstage setups: in Reaper, I have Superior loaded as a VST, while in Mainstage it's loaded as an AU. I won't be able to test whether loading it as an AU in Reaper makes a difference until I get home, but mentioning in case there's a known performance difference?

JayJSE2 · 01-11-2016, 10:18 AM

This might not help, but do you have any other plugins in the session? As it takes time for plugins to process audio, they add latency to the session.

If that doesn't work, there is this (although I've not used it live, so I don't know if it would be any better): http://shop.audified.com/collections.../intone-2-solo

usernamenumber · 01-11-2016, 10:52 AM

No other plugins, I'm afraid. Intone looks interesting, so thanks for mentioning it! I'll take a look asap.

Judders · 01-11-2016, 12:57 PM

It's not the media buffer you want to change, in fact you should probably change that back to the default.

It is the "request block size" in the audio device preferences that you want to change, and that is measured in samples, not milliseconds.

If you want low latency, try 32, 64 or 128 sample buffer sizes, as low as you can get without any glitches on playback. All the Superior Drummer samples will be loaded into RAM, so a small buffer shouldn't be a problem (as long as no other processing or audio files are in the same project). Also, the higher the sample rate, the less the latency but the higher the CPU load.

Airal · 01-11-2016, 01:26 PM

Try measuring your latency. If you don't know how much it's off you can't really make an informed decision. Use loopback bypassing everything.

The latency could be caused from several places and you must try an isolate each one. There is plenty of info online on how to do this.

I think I made a post somewhere once. I created a project that does just this.

One that you can even test the latency of the drum kit itself because the triggers are analog based... you can use the output of your audio interface into the drum kit to trigger a "hit" then measure the time it takes for that to get into reaper.

usernamenumber · 01-11-2016, 02:12 PM

I think I can conclude that it isn't the pads because the latency goes away when using the same pads and plugin in Mainstage. That said, I'll look around for tips on measuring latency in Reaper and using it to troubleshoot specific components thereof.

Reno.thestraws · 01-11-2016, 04:06 PM

1ms through headphones is actually lower than real life latency...

Let's say you're on acoustic drums

Your kick is about 70cm from your ears

Speed of sound is 340 m/s

So 340m = 1000ms
1 m = 2,94ms
70cm = 2,05ms

It's not latency that disturb you, it's just the fact that the sound does not come from what you're hitting.

Well, it's another kind of instruments...

Same for guitarists that "hear" latency when playing through amp sims with 3ms latency... It's actually a lower latency than being 2 meters away from their amp.

usernamenumber · 01-11-2016, 04:29 PM

What disturbs me is the fact that I hear the sound of the stick hitting the pad and the sample coming from my speakers as two distinct sounds a fraction of a second apart when I do it in Reaper, but if I swap Reaper for Mainstage they sound simultaneous. This isn't an aural illusion I'm describing, it's a phenomenon that occurs in Reaper but not in other software.

Judders · 01-11-2016, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usernamenumber

What disturbs me is the fact that I hear the sound of the stick hitting the pad and the sample coming from my speakers as two distinct sounds a fraction of a second apart when I do it in Reaper, but if I swap Reaper for Mainstage they sound simultaneous. This isn't an aural illusion I'm describing, it's a phenomenon that occurs in Reaper but not in other software.

Did you change the block size?

The media buffer has zero effect on latency.

usernamenumber · 01-11-2016, 05:24 PM

Sorry, Judders, I'd missed your reply earlier.

I'll give that a try and report back!

Judders · 01-11-2016, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usernamenumber

Sorry, Judders, I'd missed your reply earlier.

I'll give that a try and report back!

Cool

usernamenumber · 01-11-2016, 05:44 PM

That fixed it! Sounds perfect now, thanks!!

Judders · 01-11-2016, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usernamenumber

That fixed it! Sounds perfect now, thanks!!

Sweet, you're welcome

Don't forget to set your media buffer back to what it was, default is 1200ms (that doesn't affect latency, it's just how far in advance audio is buffered, if it's too low you might get stutters and cut-outs).

g4greg · 01-12-2016, 04:45 AM

Also, if you have money :

http://www.amazon.com/Zoom-UAC-2-Two.../dp/B00ZY33B40

that thing is a bad mofo when it comes down to speed.

Or, for even more speed, there is a thunderbolt version

Judders · 01-12-2016, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g4greg

Also, if you have money :

http://www.amazon.com/Zoom-UAC-2-Two.../dp/B00ZY33B40

that thing is a bad mofo when it comes down to speed.

Or, for even more speed, there is a thunderbolt version

Is it even possible to have a slow MIDI input?

MonkeyBars · 02-25-2016, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judders

Did you change the block size?

The media buffer has zero effect on latency.

Thanks Judders, fixed my issue too!

Judders · 02-26-2016, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyBars

Thanks Judders, fixed my issue too!

Cool, glad it helped!

ses717 · 12-26-2021, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayJSE2

This might not help, but do you have any other plugins in the session? As it takes time for plugins to process audio, they add latency to the session.

If that doesn't work, there is this (although I've not used it live, so I don't know if it would be any better): http://shop.audified.com/collections.../intone-2-solo

.

I had 4 plugins on master. Didn’t realize they affected real-time playing. Only needed the reverb for vibe while recording. Using Komplete S88 keyboard.

Some Old threads have great value.
Thank you 😊