Old 12-03-2021, 02:02 PM   #1
The Kid
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Default Reverb: Algorithms vs Impulse Responses

I found that 90% of the time algos can be tuned to the music more easily.
But sometimes the right IR is just what the music needs.
What's your experience with this?
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Old 12-03-2021, 02:15 PM   #2
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I use algo verbs on individual tracks like snare, toms, guitars, Etc.

The place where I like to stick an impulse reverb is on my final submaster to put the whole mix or band in the same room.
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Old 12-03-2021, 02:20 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
I use algo verbs on individual tracks like snare, toms, guitars, Etc.

The place where I like to stick an impulse reverb is on my final submaster to put the whole mix or band in the same room.
I'll have to steal that, maybe I like it!
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Old 12-03-2021, 03:44 PM   #4
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I tend to like algos better and I don't care about an uber-real space etc. I still use IRs sometimes, I have a ton but I've noticed over the last 15 years or so, I just don't use/need them that much.

It's contextual though. If I were trying recreate a room for dialog in a movie then an IR would be the obvious choice but to put some reverb on a piece of music that I want to sound good, it's almost always algo.
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Old 12-04-2021, 09:59 AM   #5
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Theoretically, such a convolution reverb - no matter which one
- has exactly the super quality that the IR conveys. That's
what is special: the convolution reverb sounds exactly like
the place where the IR was recorded.

In musical practice, however, I have found that one (or more)
algorithm reverbs sound good enough and are easier and faster
to set. And that's exactly why we only use algo reverbs.
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Old 12-04-2021, 10:14 AM   #6
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Having an eq follow the reverb (or pre) and what you do with it is magnitudes more important than the algorithm or IR. Midrange band passing and then pull out the weird resonance or two that's poking out and stepping on stuff. There's a line I suppose. I mean, you don't want some metallic sounding thing that makes cymbals sound like mp3 artifacts... Well, unless you do!
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Old 12-04-2021, 11:05 AM   #7
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Quote:
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Having an eq follow the reverb (or pre) and what you do with it is magnitudes more important than the algorithm or IR. Midrange band passing and then pull out the weird resonance or two that's poking out and stepping on stuff. There's a line I suppose. I mean, you don't want some metallic sounding thing that makes cymbals sound like mp3 artifacts... Well, unless you do!
I pre-EQ the plate reverb I use on drums with ReaEQ, and use it to roll off mids and bass before it ever gets to the verb.
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Old 12-04-2021, 01:14 PM   #8
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Reverberate 3 feels like using an algorithmic reverb. No waiting around for the IRs to load, or when being modified on my nearly decade old i7.
Happy using algorithmic, or that one's convolution.

The only negative remains the gigabytes of drive space for the IRs - or the download time, if you don't have access to good broadband.
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Old 12-04-2021, 04:05 PM   #9
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I have Reveberate 2, Reverberate 3 switched to iLok so I had to bail on them... however... No matter how hard I tried with V2, it ended up on very few if any projects. So apparently, even though I have tons of IRs and a few IR reverbs, I must prefer algos.
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Old 12-04-2021, 04:13 PM   #10
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I have ValhallaRoom. It's fantastic.
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Old 12-04-2021, 04:51 PM   #11
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I almost always use an instance of the LSP Impulse Reverb on my submaster with a nice room sound impulse, then I dial it under the mix where you can only hear it is doing anything when you bypass it.

Putting the whole mix in the same room makes it feel more like it was played in the same room. I never use impulse verbs anywhere else.

I use algorithmic reverbs on acoustic drums, vocals, guitars, and keyboards, usually with the verb on its own track set 100% wet, sending to it through a bus, but sometimes I'll stick an algo verb right on the track if it's for a special effect that no other track will use.
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Old 12-04-2021, 09:51 PM   #12
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I think a lot boils down to what you're used too, and what's at hand. I've got the old algo Waves TrueVerb and it's so easy to set up and use, I tend to pull that up quite a bit.

I use ReaVerb with certain IRs quite often on drums.

I've also got Waves Abbey Road Plates that I got fairly recently, I've been pulling that up too recently and experimenting with it.

I've found that most any decent algoverb or IR verb with good IRs will work fine after I've learned how to use it correctly.
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Old 12-04-2021, 09:55 PM   #13
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ReaVerbate is underrated in my opinion. It can do a lot.
I have a machine with only stock Reaper plugs, and it works.
You have to tweak it a lot though, but it's great.
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Old 12-04-2021, 10:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
ReaVerbate is underrated in my opinion. It can do a lot.
I have a machine with only stock Reaper plugs, and it works.
You have to tweak it a lot though, but it's great.
I have to admit, I haven't really given ReaVerbate much of a chance, I'm going to have to make it a point to do that.

When it comes to plugins I think ReaPlugins are as good as they get.
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Old 12-05-2021, 12:14 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
I have Reveberate 2, Reverberate 3 switched to iLok so I had to bail on them... however... No matter how hard I tried with V2, it ended up on very few if any projects. So apparently, even though I have tons of IRs and a few IR reverbs, I must prefer algos.
I found the same here with Liquidsonics Reverberate 2, but not 3.
Not trying to persuade you though as clearly iLok is still going to put you off.
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Old 12-05-2021, 12:21 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
I have to admit, I haven't really given ReaVerbate much of a chance, I'm going to have to make it a point to do that.

When it comes to plugins I think ReaPlugins are as good as they get.
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Old 12-05-2021, 08:21 AM   #17
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ReaVerbate unfortunately just sounds “cheap” to me; it has a “tinny” sound to it I don’t like. Which sucks because aside from reverb, the other Reaper plugins sound great!

I use Denise Audio’s Perfect Room and it replaced all my reverb plugins. It’s so easy to use and never sounds bad even at extreme settings. Plus ducking reverb is super easy with Perfect Room and allows me to move faster in the mix without fiddling around with something like Fabfilter’s R reverb (since there’s thousands of settings that sound terrible with Fabfilter R).

Check out what I did on this dry guitar with 5 instances of Perfect Room set to different hi and lowpass settings and different shimmer and ducking settings:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EvH...w?usp=drivesdk
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Old 12-05-2021, 08:36 AM   #18
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Damn you, Lynx!!!! I already have way too many reverbs, but watching the demo film of it has impressed me quite a bit. Just wish I had seen it when they had a $29.99 sale on, or similar
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Old 12-05-2021, 11:14 AM   #19
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I like Reverberate 3. I have Seventh Heaven too, but use it less.

If you had only one algo reverb, what would it be?

Valhalla Room?
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Old 12-05-2021, 11:15 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistair S View Post

If you had only one algo reverb, what would it be?

Valhalla Room?
yes! that's my reverb
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Old 12-05-2021, 02:40 PM   #21
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I use both equally.

If I want something to sound like it's in a real space, I use an IR of a real space. If I want something to sound like it's in an artificial space I use an algo reverb or an IR of an outboard unit.
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Old 12-05-2021, 07:59 PM   #22
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Check out Convology XT (free, https://wavearts.com/products/plugins/convology-xt/) which is true-stereo-capable and thanks to my latest AVConvert update you can now render all your ordinary stereo impulses true-stereo in one click!

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Old 12-06-2021, 07:38 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Damn you, Lynx!!!! I already have way too many reverbs, but watching the demo film of it has impressed me quite a bit. Just wish I had seen it when they had a $29.99 sale on, or similar
Be sure to check around Christmas time. Also, not that I’d recommend this, there’s always ways to find a cracked copy until they have a sale

I would also check out Dragon Fire by Denise Audio. It’s a hybrid EQ and compressor that works in the spectral domain vs the frequency domain. I’ve used it on vocals to add some “zing” to it, works pretty well.

The best overall package I’ve found for vocals though is Howard Benson Vocals. They have a great sale going on right now for $89. I used it on this mix:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D9a...w?usp=drivesdk

Really makes vocals shine!
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Old 12-06-2021, 07:51 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicAxiom View Post
Check out Convology XT (free, https://wavearts.com/products/plugins/convology-xt/) which is true-stereo-capable and thanks to my latest AVConvert update you can now render all your ordinary stereo impulses true-stereo in one click!

.
+1 to Convology XT, it’s probably the best impulse reverb I’ve used, and the true stereo impulses make a world of difference.
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Old 12-06-2021, 09:23 AM   #25
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My ears cannot spot the difference between a good impulse and a good algorithm.
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Old 12-06-2021, 10:51 AM   #26
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My ears cannot spot the difference between a good impulse and a good algorithm.
I can say for something like an ambient setting, like recreating a small room, like a room room, not a reverb room of a less than 100ms etc. it would be generally difficult for anyone to tell which is which. I have a really dead room (on purpose) so I tend to add the room back in Reaper.

Once the rooms/halls whathaveyou get bigger, I think it makes more difference but from a musical perspective, I have a real hard time caring these days because I think it generally adds little to the true end-listener experience for your say basic band recording/mix with things like bass/drums/guitars/keyboards and so on. Assuming we aren't talking slathering in something that is all reverb such as shoegaze et al. IMHO/YMMV.

Why do I think that? Because I've spent decades guinea pigging people without their knowledge, by making such changes and the musicians themselves don't usually notice, much less the random person listening to a piece of music.
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Old 12-06-2021, 11:06 AM   #27
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this is very good for real spaces and being able to fine tune them too. Very natural and 3d sounding.

https://www.acustica-audio.com/store.../reverb/silver




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Old 12-06-2021, 11:35 AM   #28
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For me I think the answer is to throw all the options in a bin, stop worrying about which is which type, and pick the one you like.

Now that I think about it... that's true for everything, and therefore didn't need mentioning. I retract my contribution.
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Old 12-06-2021, 10:08 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynx_TWO View Post
ReaVerbate unfortunately just sounds “cheap” to me; it has a “tinny” sound to it I don’t like. Which sucks because aside from reverb, the other Reaper plugins sound great!
I thought that too Lynx, from my first impression of it, so I never went back.

However, I did use it on one occasion where I had to totally use only Reaper plugins and it actually sounded pretty good, but I haven't used it since, probably because of my first impression.

It didn't sound too bad in Kenny's video, working with a drum kit.

I assume it's only "Mono to Stereo", or does it have some other combinations like "Stereo to Stereo" or "True Stereo"?
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Old 12-07-2021, 05:27 PM   #30
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I do chamber music and classical ensembles (which makes all my following comments moot for most of you), and IME good impulse responses work far better at creating a realistic room/hall “space”. I tried a million algorithmic reverbs including some quite expensive ones (flux, aether, pro-r, nimbus are all better than Valhalla room, IMO), and a wild number of convolution verbs (reverberate, altiverb, waves IR1, inspirata, SIR3, IK sunset sound studio, etc), and now, like LYNx two, use Denise Perfect Room almost exclusively. Larger groups may get VS8F IR of “piano hall”, and for strings occasionally I will use a very nice bricasti IR of sunset chamber in waves (better than the IRs included in the IK sunset studio plugin)…
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Old 12-07-2021, 05:44 PM   #31
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I do chamber music and classical ensembles (which makes all my following comments moot for most of you), and IME good impulse responses work far better at creating a realistic room/hall “space”. I tried a million algorithmic reverbs including some quite expensive ones (flux, aether, pro-r, nimbus are all better than Valhalla room, IMO), and a wild number of convolution verbs (reverberate, altiverb, waves IR1, inspirata, SIR3, IK sunset sound studio, etc), and now, like LYNx two, use Denise Perfect Room almost exclusively. Larger groups may get VS8F IR of “piano hall”, and for strings occasionally I will use a very nice bricasti IR of sunset chamber in waves (better than the IRs included in the IK sunset studio plugin)…
very interesting!
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Old 12-10-2021, 11:47 AM   #32
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Quote:
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I assume it's only "Mono to Stereo", or does it have some other combinations like "Stereo to Stereo" or "True Stereo"?
It's dual-mono (i.e. left and right channels are processed independently).
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Old 12-10-2021, 01:27 PM   #33
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Does anyone here use a real chamber? with speaker and mics, in a real room?
I could totally do it in my studio, it's just that digital reverbs do the job, and there's always little time to do things.
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Old 12-10-2021, 02:16 PM   #34
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Does anyone here use a real chamber? with speaker and mics, in a real room?
I could totally do it in my studio, it's just that digital reverbs do the job, and there's always little time to do things.
I believe Karbomusic has done that in his house, if I remember correctly.
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Old 12-10-2021, 02:46 PM   #35
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Thanks Softsynth...

I'm sure I posted this here earlier today but it when missing or I thought I clicked submit and didn't - but yes, did it in 2017 ish... I can't remember if I kept it on the release version of that song or not.

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Old 12-12-2021, 12:10 AM   #36
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Both ,my 2 favorite reverbs are Valhalla Vintage Verb(algo.) and IK Multimedia Sunset Sound Studio Reverb(IR based). I was a teenager in the 80's and huge Van Halen fan and most if not all of the firs 5 Van Halen albums were recorded at Sunset Sound so, I'm use to that sound.
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Old 12-12-2021, 02:03 AM   #37
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Best natural reverb/delay system I have had the luxury to use was the old cowshed at Rockfield, which had a mic & speaker and a load of swivelling glass panels to control duration, etc. Blew me away.
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Old 12-12-2021, 02:54 AM   #38
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Best natural reverb/delay system I have had the luxury to use was the old cowshed at Rockfield, which had a mic & speaker and a load of swivelling glass panels to control duration, etc. Blew me away.
Moo-ving moo-sic.
https://rockfieldfilm.com/
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