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Old 07-18-2008, 02:52 PM   #1
357mag
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Default Double-tracking observation

Yeah this afternoon I decided to experiment with double-tracking my electric guitar. First I played the first part of a song I'm going to record soon. Then I inserted a new track, and played the exact same guitar part. Then I played back both tracks and listened.

Then I merely highlighted the first track and copied and pasted that into a new track and again listened to both tracks.

I was expecting both methods to sound the same. But they don't sound exactly the same. To me, when I played the guitar part a second time and re-recorded it, it takes on a little more of a live sound. Kinda hard to describe, but maybe what I'm trying to say is it kinda sounds like two people playing the same part live.

The copy and paste method doesn't really sound that way. The sound gets thicker and louder too, but it's more perfect and exact without the live feel and sound.

Seems in the end though that both methods are acceptable.
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:33 PM   #2
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also experiment with offsetting one trak from the other
(item properties) by a few milliseconds.
and keeping one trak dry n tother with a likkle fx on.
its all experimentation.
also experiment with panning.

do the same for vocs.
record one take, then another n put one take just under another in volume and/or add some fx to one take.

with live drums have the drummer play a simple trak for beds.
then later once the song comes together overdub more fancier drums.
for bass try one bass trak DI, and then record another with a bass cab.
just some ideas to try.
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:35 PM   #3
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Copying and pasting the exact same track will produce the same sound, only louder.
Some nudge one track a few milliseconds and/or detune it a few cents to achieve a more "live" sound. Personally I don't like to copy tracks, I always get undesirable phase artifacts. I track the part twice (or more), apply different amp/effects settings to each one and pan both left and right.
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:41 PM   #4
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Apply eq to one of the copies and maybe reverse its phase for a different sound.

Not many singers or guitarists can duplicate their tracks precise enough to make double tracking sound real good though.

I recorded 8 tracks of the same guitar riff and it turned out to be a monster. Not very usable though.
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:01 PM   #5
357mag
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I think I will come real close to duplicating my original track cuz the song I will do it on is real simple to play. And its pretty slow too.
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 357mag View Post
Yeah this afternoon I decided to experiment with double-tracking my electric guitar. First I played the first part of a song I'm going to record soon. Then I inserted a new track, and played the exact same guitar part. Then I played back both tracks and listened.
Hi 357mag, Yeah, that's double tracking.

Quote:
Then I merely highlighted the first track and copied and pasted that into a new track and again listened to both tracks.
This is not double tracking, it's the same track, but louder.

Quote:
Seems in the end though that both methods are acceptable.
No, not at all, double tracking is the only way to
go....like you said, it sounds like two people playing the same part live, it takes a little practice, works great on vocals too..

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Old 07-18-2008, 06:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 357mag View Post
To me, when I played the guitar part a second time and re-recorded it, it takes on a little more of a live sound. Kinda hard to describe, but maybe what I'm trying to say is it kinda sounds like two people playing the same part live.
Holy Smokes!
maybe because it really was two people playing the part live
You, and you five minutes earlier

My thughts are, it would be difficult for a robot to play the exact same thing and make it sound like a duplication of the original track...

hehe
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Old 07-18-2008, 09:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 357mag View Post
Yeah this afternoon I decided to experiment with double-tracking my electric guitar. First I played the first part of a song I'm going to record soon. Then I inserted a new track, and played the exact same guitar part. Then I played back both tracks and listened.
Yup.
I always do that.
It's standard metal/rock modus operandi since probably about the 70's.
Metal actually sounds really weird if you don't do it.
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Old 07-19-2008, 12:24 AM   #9
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Yup.
I always do that.
It's standard metal/rock modus operandi since probably about the 70's.
Metal actually sounds really weird if you don't do it.
Yup. No "wall of guitars" without...erm...a wall of guitars.

A variation of that for other music styles or solo guitars is to play the same part on lots of tracks and panning them too, but then keeping them barely audible in the mix, just letting them add some "ambience". This way the original guitar track still sounds like "one guitar", but "richer/fatter/sweeter". Just like in all the other scenarios, this doesn't really work with copies of the track.
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:04 AM   #10
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I think that double-tracking is really an option though. You don't have to do it if you don't want. I don't think people like Trower or Blackmore did it. Of course that's plain rock or blues, not really heavy metal. I don't know if even Van Halen did it on the early albums.

When I listen to my Les Paul recorded on just one track, with a little bit of delay and equalization added, the sound is quite thick already. Les Pauls are known for that of course.
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Old 07-19-2008, 10:05 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 357mag View Post
I think that double-tracking is really an option though. You don't have to do it if you don't want. I don't think people like Trower or Blackmore did it. Of course that's plain rock or blues, not really heavy metal. I don't know if even Van Halen did it on the early albums.

When I listen to my Les Paul recorded on just one track, with a little bit of delay and equalization added, the sound is quite thick already. Les Pauls are known for that of course.
For what I know Van Halen never did it, even today he doesn't double track. But if you want to get a really, really thick death crunch a la Carcass, Fear Factory, Napalm Death, etc. Double tracking is a must. Some bands even do more than 4 layered tracks to get that sound.

Funny thing, the "wall of sound" and multilayered takes had been around forever, since the times of Les Paul (the man, not the guitar) and Phil Spector. I wonder: who was the first Metal band/guitarist/producer to apply that idea to distorted guitars?
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Old 07-19-2008, 02:46 PM   #12
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Most of these bands that people mention like the ones you mentioned I've never heard of. But the world is so big and there are so many people and musicians and bands nowadays, it's impossible to know a lot of them.
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Old 07-22-2008, 09:20 PM   #13
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Something else you can do is take the track that is copied and pasted and move it to the right just a little. Then play back. It does add thickness and a bit of delay to the sound.
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:09 PM   #14
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If you are going to just move the copy then that's just an echo. Try slightly modulating the pitch with a chorus on the copied track.

It's more fun to record more tracks so why the heck not eh?
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:11 PM   #15
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remember, when double tracking electric guitars, you may find that less gain may sound clearer and better, even on really heavy stuff
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