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Old 08-23-2018, 10:35 PM   #1
Win Conway
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Default Linux starting out questions

Been a bunch of years since i tried messing with Linux and it was absolute garbage when i did, lack of real support for audio interfaces, never ending going through different builds of Linux to find one that was usable etc etc etc.

However, times a change, Windows 10 is now the biggest pile of crap that was ever released and the never ending cycle of resetting the OS after every big forced update is just laughable, this is happening for more and more users as their machine gets a little older, while i run a MBP and have zero issues, i do have some older hardware i need to use, most specifically an old Lenovo laptop i want to take to work to use on my downtime for working on projects.

Now Reaps has official Linux support i am thinking it may be best to just roll this on to Linux than Hackintosh (Has a bunch of issues with this particular laptop)
I would like to experiment with this Lenovo for Xwax use too, so could do with support for express card RME RPM.

So im looking for some linkage/hints
Best Linux package for Reaper (I know this will be personal, but some options would be nice) and links to install help.
Some insight on Express card support and setting up the RME RPM.

Any help here would be useful, i am still mulling just getting an older MS Surface because they will always make sure their crap updates work with their own hardware, but if i can get this Lenovo working (Its very small) it may dissuade me.

Cheers guys.
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Old 08-23-2018, 10:48 PM   #2
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This is well worth a Look!.
http://www.bandshed.net/avlinux
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Old 08-24-2018, 07:13 AM   #3
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Hey there, long time no see!

Though never having used it, I'd second the AVLinux choice. It seems to be one of the few distros that come preconfigured for Linux audio work and seems highly regarded on the net. The manual for AVL: http://bandshed.net/pdf/AVL2018UserManual.pdf

The rme cardbus->hdsp is one of the better cards you can have in Linux and has driver support. Can't say that I've ever tried it in Linux, but you should be good to go with that. I think it even includes the repo to install the firmware from, otherwise you have to check out how to add the nonfree repo, as debian has a thing about non open binaries, but should be easy to get over.

My advice it to burn it to an usb stick and boot from that to see what you thing.

Of course seeing that it's software on a computer, some faffing will undoubtedly be in order
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Old 08-24-2018, 08:15 AM   #4
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I'm a Linux newb and have been reading through the AVLinux manual. I see what might be an issue for new users of AVLinux, though it is probably not a problem on an older Levovo lappie.

From page 13 of the AVLinux manual:

Generally speaking, installation of AV Linux 2018 will currently be best suited to computers with Hard Drives formatted to the MSDOS partition table and BIOSes that pre-date UEFI OR have options in the BIOS to disable or circumvent Secure Boot.


If I'm understanding this correctly, a modern UEFI based machine might not run AVLinux.
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Old 08-24-2018, 08:26 AM   #5
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I think I saw this mentioned somewhere. AFAIK the 32b version can't do or has problems with UEFI boot, 64b should be ok. Caveat, I've never tested myself.
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Old 09-01-2018, 09:00 PM   #6
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You need to make a DVD to install it, i don't even have a DVD drive on the computer nowadays hahaha.
I need to find a Linux that can be installed from USB stick, AVlinux can, but only after you have installed AVlinux to make the bootable USB stick hahahaha, dead useful and unfortunately just reminds me of how absolutely mad a lot of Linux is.
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Old 09-01-2018, 09:14 PM   #7
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You can make bootable USBs from an ISO in Windows.

https://www.wikihow.com/Install-AV-Linux

https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/tutoria...k-on-windows#0

Ubuntu Studio is another solid choice that works pretty well right out of the box.
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Old 09-01-2018, 09:51 PM   #8
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Yeah its ok, i used etcher on the mac and it made avlinux bootable usb, first 5 minutes says that Linux has come a long way since my last forray about five years ago !!!
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Old 09-01-2018, 10:54 PM   #9
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I think i need to stick to windows hahaha, i adjusted the latency in Jack according to the AVLinux manual, absolutely no change at all in Reaper, nothing i do changes the latency in Reaper.

Looks like Linux is still a bit too much learning tweaking and not enough music making for me.
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Old 09-01-2018, 11:08 PM   #10
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You are using JACK in reaper and not ALSA, right? Also you need to restart the JACK server for the changes to take effect. And actually probably better to use ALSA in the reaper settings unless you need the JACK functionality.
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Old 09-01-2018, 11:08 PM   #11
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Also found my first bug i think, the media explorer doesn't play in sync with loops.
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Old 09-01-2018, 11:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Winter View Post
You are using JACK in reaper and not ALSA, right? Also you need to restart the JACK server for the changes to take effect. And actually probably better to use ALSA in the reaper settings unless you need the JACK functionality.
Restart the jack server how ?
I thought i just hit stop and then play again on that QTL thing.

Can't test right now, reinstalling Windows 10, will try anything you suggest afterwards

Note i did try ALSA, it couldnt open the device or such, because of Jack i suspect.
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Old 09-01-2018, 11:13 PM   #13
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Maybe there should be a wiki page or something with these super basic things in there ?
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Old 09-01-2018, 11:19 PM   #14
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Yes, stop/start is right. then it's very strange indeed that reaper runs at the wrong settings, never seen that. There is somewhat of an article on the reaper wiki, and also the documentation thread I've worked a bit on. But it's pretty rudimentary as it's a lot of work and time consuming to write.

Think the best we have at the moment is this forum.

And yes again, linux still requires some tinkering But it's just a few basic things, and avlinux should have taken care of a lot of that.

Now whether you like it or not, is up to you to determine, and keep in mind that reaper on linux is a work in progress and quite new. For me it works well enough for what I do.

Yes if JACK is using the soundcard, reaper won't be able to open it via ALSA.
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Old 09-01-2018, 11:24 PM   #15
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Sorry to argue, but as a newb who installed the Distro people suggested, got Reaper running, tried to change latency, i think Linux is very far from working, you cant simply change the latency from 23/69ms in Reaper.
That is disappointing from the single point of view of wanting to actually try out Linux, I am willing and capable of learning how to use Linux and all the nonsense that goes with doing that, but if the first experience is it doesn't even allow you to change latency, in an audio Distro (AVLinux) that is really worrying.

Like i say, i will mess a bit more after Windows 10 installs, but i can already see flashbacks to 5 years ago and the frustration that pretty much everybody has with Linux, sadly
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Old 09-01-2018, 11:39 PM   #16
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PS before anybody jumps in thinking i'm disrespecting Linux, I'm not, Jack knows that, but others wont, I try to switch to it every few years but always get **** blocked by one thing or another.

All im doing is pointing out a few issues right off the bat as a newb on first starting Linux.
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Old 09-01-2018, 11:58 PM   #17
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Well it's good feedback, thanks for that.

Not quite sure what your issue with changing the audio settings is, unless the JACK server was already running. If you use ALSA or let reaper start the JACK server that probably works better.

For me any feedback is good feedback, even if I can't change/fix the Linux distro that you chose, at least I could improve the documentation. I am intending to document the audio device settings someday, and I do intend to recommend using ALSA, unless the user has a need for JACK.

Note that there are so many ways of doing things in Linux that it's sometimes bewildering My recommendation of AVLinux was based on what other Linux users opinion, but I have no first hand experience with it. I run Archlinux and think it's one of the best, but I could not recommend that for a noob with a straight face

Still it's a different OS, so some learning, trying and general faffing is probably to be expected
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Old 09-02-2018, 12:01 AM   #18
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I just use ALSA straight up in REAPER now and everything feels instant, overhere.
44100, 64 blocks, 24bit, periods 3, and not even started tweaking yet, just fresh install (Manjaro Cinnamon in my case) and update software.
64 reports 2.9ms and 32 is like 1.4ms, auto-suspend PulseAudio is ticked also.
I have not done anything fancy business yet, I swear!

PS, so no messing with JACK or anything, "just-like-that" easy it is now.
PS2, and change theme to Vertex-Maia if you have same taste as moi.
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Old 09-02-2018, 12:05 AM   #19
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I will try ALSA direct again if this Windows install ever actually finishes the bloated POS.
I have a funny feeling that AVLinux starts the Jack server as soon as it boots in to the Live USB, because i couldn't use ALSA at all in Hydrogen/Ardour/Mixbus before i installed Reaper, where it wouldn't work either.
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Old 09-02-2018, 12:40 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpunk_w View Post
I will try ALSA direct again if this Windows install ever actually finishes the bloated POS.
I have a funny feeling that AVLinux starts the Jack server as soon as it boots in to the Live USB, because i couldn't use ALSA at all in Hydrogen/Ardour/Mixbus before i installed Reaper, where it wouldn't work either.
I suppose that's a distinct possibility, will ask on IRC if anyone knows the details.
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Old 09-02-2018, 02:24 AM   #21
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ALSA doesn't work, Reaper just says cant open audio device
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Old 09-02-2018, 02:33 AM   #22
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Hmm, don't know what flavor of JACK that AVL uses, try jack_control stop.
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Old 09-02-2018, 02:40 AM   #23
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opened a terminal and typed that, no change.
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Old 09-02-2018, 02:41 AM   #24
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Tried the auto suspend pulseaudio checkbox?

Edit: Try pgrep -a jack
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Old 09-02-2018, 02:57 AM   #25
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Had the pulseaudio ticked yeah, will try the other.

I think it might make more sense for me to just go Arch linux if that is what you use, if i can get audio working i might actually install lol.
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Old 09-02-2018, 03:00 AM   #26
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Archaudio is a lot of faffing to install No GUI at all to install it, you have to boot to command line, mount partitions, start a chroot to install what you need, etc... That's why I say I can't really recommend it with a straight face
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Old 09-02-2018, 03:24 AM   #27
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Right, i think its time to call it quits, too much ponce for me.
I'll try again in another 5 years, but i don't hold out much hope.
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Old 09-02-2018, 03:27 AM   #28
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pgrep -a jack didn't show some form of jack running?
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Old 09-02-2018, 03:42 AM   #29
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It said something or other, but i cant be bothered anymore mate, cheers for the help, i prefer making music.
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Old 09-02-2018, 03:50 AM   #30
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One last try while the windows 10 usb stick is rebuilding.

On boot it says pcspkr driver already registered aborting
pgrep -a jack said nothing at all.
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Old 09-02-2018, 03:56 AM   #31
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If i select ALSA in Hydrogen, it outputs sound, if i select ALSA in ardour it says 'Stopped' and refuses to use ALSA.
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Old 09-02-2018, 04:08 AM   #32
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I run ardour and changed it to jack, it says jack is already running (straight from boot) so i closed ardour and done pgrep -a jack and it gave..
4143 /usr/bin/jackdbus auto
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Old 09-02-2018, 04:13 AM   #33
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jack_control exit allowed me to use ALSA for ardour, will download Reaper now and see if it helps there.
Seems weird that Jack is running all the time ?
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Old 09-02-2018, 04:26 AM   #34
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OK i dont actually know how to fix it, but i know what is causing it, two things
1 Jack auto starts when AVlinux starts
2 The docking station that this note book sits on has a HDMI port, Linux is finding that for some apps and for others it isnt, when i pull the note book from the dock i can exit Jack and use ALSA in Reaper, which also coincidentally allowed the media browser to play loops in sync too ??

@Jack WInter any ideas ?

I'm going to try and get WIn 10 installed on it again, but i have to be honest, once this ALSA was working it felt very slick, but do i really need AVLinux, i have zero use for all that Hydrogen and Ardour and what not, and Reaper doesn't even find any of the plugins it installs.
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Old 09-03-2018, 01:07 AM   #35
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Quote:
I have a funny feeling that AVLinux starts the Jack server as soon as it boots in to the Live USB,
That's not the case here. Just downloaded AVL and put it into a USB stick. Jack must be started manually via jackctl, otherwise it's just ALSA (and pulse) running right out of the box. I wonder why jack is autostarting in you install.

Personally for audio in Linux I prefer using a minimal Debian installation and dropping in only the stuff I want and need. (Better on Sid than on Testing. It's smoother to deal with. Testing gives more headaches). The benefit of Debian is having the KXS repos available avoiding the need to compile and packaging a ton of stuff.

As a system base, a plain Debian minimal netinstall or a relatively light weight yet complete distro like Vsido are great starting points (or any antix flavor if you prefer to build a live system with persistence or to stay away from systemd for some reason (in this case replacing sysvinit by openrc would make your like easier). antix is great for custom live systems but a lot of homework is involved).

Of course, it's way easier for newcomers just installing AVL or KXS as dedicated audio systems than building your syetem from Arch, Debian or whatever. Notice that using AVL or KXS live is discouraged for production.
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Old 09-03-2018, 01:12 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpunk_w View Post
OK i dont actually know how to fix it, but i know what is causing it, two things
1 Jack auto starts when AVlinux starts
2 The docking station that this note book sits on has a HDMI port, Linux is finding that for some apps and for others it isnt, when i pull the note book from the dock i can exit Jack and use ALSA in Reaper, which also coincidentally allowed the media browser to play loops in sync too ??
Dou you have anything related to jack in ~/.config/startup or the xfce session manager?

Regarding the question 2, what is your graphics driver?
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Old 09-03-2018, 01:12 AM   #37
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I'm also at a loss. Since AVL appears to use jack-dbus it probably autostarts when the first application tries to use JACK. Maybe just booting it and starting Reaper with an ALSA config will work.

Personally I don't know how this works, as I've staid as far away as possible from auto starting jack-dbus stuff. Possibly replacing jack2 with jack1 will get rid of this behavior, that is if dependency chains don't make this a hassle.
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Old 09-03-2018, 01:17 AM   #38
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^ That's probably it. Jack programs quick jackd in not previously running.
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Old 09-03-2018, 08:43 PM   #39
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http://www.libremusicproduction.com/...g-started-jack

Hi, this should have the examples and info you need.
It's helped many people in your situation.
Cheers
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Old 09-04-2018, 03:00 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmajjL View Post
PS, so no messing with JACK or anything, "just-like-that" easy it is now.
PS2, and change theme to Vertex-Maia if you have same taste as moi.
Vertex-Maia looks awesome. Do you know if it can be installed on any distro? I use Linux Lite 4.0

Thanks in advanced
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