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Old 12-13-2018, 03:25 AM   #1
Nuri
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Default Why can I not set Reaper to use ALSA?

Hi!

On KXStudio, as I set Reaper to use ALSA with the following configuration:
Code:
Input channels:32     Input device: hw:HDSPMxf184c1 ; HDSPM - RME RayDAT_f184c1
Output channels:32    Output device: hw:HDSPMxf184c1 ; HDSPM - RME RayDAT_f184c1
Samplerate: 48000
Blocksize: 32
Bit depth: 24
Period: 2
RT priority: 40 (suggested setting for RT use)
I get this message from Reaper:
Quote:
There was an error opening the audio hardware:
ALSA: error setting input device period count
I've tried to set other period counts but it solved nothing.
I can't set Reaper to use ALSA!

Hardware is:
i7-8700K
ASUS Prime Z390-P mainboard
8GB RAM DDR4-2400
RME HDSPe RayDAT (PCI express audio interface)
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Old 12-13-2018, 11:52 PM   #2
s wave
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I am no pro but do you have 'alsamixer' set up? (gives a GUI for alsa) Using JACK1 Or JACK2 or Qjackctrl? What OS are you using and what Desktop Environment? This info can help a lot...
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Old 12-14-2018, 08:27 AM   #3
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We have been making some progress in this discussion on the Linux musicians forum here:

https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=19136
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Old 12-14-2018, 09:16 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuri View Post
Hi!

On KXStudio, as I set Reaper to use ALSA with the following configuration:
Code:
Input channels:32     Input device: hw:HDSPMxf184c1 ; HDSPM - RME RayDAT_f184c1
Output channels:32    Output device: hw:HDSPMxf184c1 ; HDSPM - RME RayDAT_f184c1
Samplerate: 48000
Blocksize: 32
Bit depth: 24
Period: 2
RT priority: 40 (suggested setting for RT use)
I get this message from Reaper:


I've tried to set other period counts but it solved nothing.
I can't set Reaper to use ALSA!

Hardware is:
i7-8700K
ASUS Prime Z390-P mainboard
8GB RAM DDR4-2400
RME HDSPe RayDAT (PCI express audio interface)
Maybe try a larger sample size (64 samples)?

Edit: actually, try setting it to be output-only, and see if you can get that working. If you can, then try input-only.

Last edited by Justin; 12-14-2018 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 12-15-2018, 07:38 AM   #5
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FWIW, on my rme hdsp multiface, 64 samples & 2 periods is the minimum that I can set.
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Old 12-17-2018, 06:09 AM   #6
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@Jack Winter:
I have no problem setting Jack to use 32 samples buffer with 2 periods and then starting Reaper.
Excepted that I got xruns... But sound works. KKRRR... KZZZZ... RKAKKKK... FFFZZZZ...
16 samples does not work with the RayDAT. Even on Windows 10.
32 samples is the minimal buffer size I can set.

@Justin:
I've already tried every possible configuration of buffer size and period count. Reaper displays always the same error message.

I think the issue is related to ALSA since I've tested AV Linux 2018, KXStudio 14.04.5, Debian Stretch, Ubuntu 18.04 and Xubuntu 18.04 on this machine with the RME HDSPe RayDAT. On all these OS, I can not set Reaper to use ALSA (get always the same message).

The Hammerfall PCI cards of RME are good supported and can be configured using the tool HDSPconf.
This tool does not work with the RayDAT (which is PCI express). It even does not want to start because it's designed for the PCI cards, I presume.
HDSPMixer works with the RayDAT, no problem.

I think something should be set in the RayDAT to work with ALSA but I don't know what and how since I can not use HDSPconf to do the settings.

Using alsamixer I can not set the buffer size nor the period count.

I will try to set "output-only" in Reaper and see what happens...

@s wave
see my previous post, OS is KXStudio.
it means, Ubuntu 14.04 base with KDE4 desktop environment.
But the problem occurs and all Linux distros I've tried (see my answer to Justin).
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Old 12-17-2018, 06:33 AM   #7
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@JamesPeters:
Quote:
We have been making some progress in this discussion on the Linux musicians forum here:

https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=19136
Does not solve anything for me.
At the moment, I will stick with Jack since it works.
Maybe later I will try ALSA again when the situation becomes clearer:
is the issue related to Reaper or ALSA?
Maybe a lack in the ALSA driver of the RayDAT.
We'll see...
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Old 12-17-2018, 10:02 AM   #8
s wave
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AISO WDM vs JACK ALSA:

https://www.learndigitalaudio.com/ho...ows-audio-2017


RME HDSPe RayDAT requirements:
Buffer Size 0.7 ms, 1.5 ms, 3 ms, 6 ms, 12 ms, 23 ms, 46 ms, 93 ms
System Requirements Windows 2000 SP4 or higher
Mac OS X Intel (10.4.8 or higher)
PCI Express Interface: one free PCI Express slot, 1 Lane, version 1.1

Linux is not listed BUT the the famous 'Paul':Paul Davis, Ardour and JACK creator/developer of linux music production fame states the following:

RME HDSPe RayDAT
Installation & Configuration
Linux

/// Hi,
does this card work on linux. I’d like to upgrade my studio set and I would like to buy this card and a new pc.
If not I would buy an old PCI RME HDSP 9652.
Thank you
Paul Davispaul
Feb '12
@tartina: it works on Linux. you may need a newer version of the ALSA driver than some random Linux distribution may provide. ///

If you get hung up why not ask him over at ardour or jack forum? that would do it...? s wave
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Old 12-17-2018, 10:08 AM   #9
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another note - I believe Reaper linux forum participant 'Smajll' is on this site using RME babyface... ask him?
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Old 12-17-2018, 10:20 AM   #10
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Why can't you set periods in alsa? hmmm I imagine you have tried all the permutations of period counts (2 or 3) between ALSA and the period counts for JACK1... another guess. gl
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Old 12-17-2018, 11:01 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave View Post
A
@tartina: it works on Linux. you may need a newer version of the ALSA driver than some random Linux distribution may provide. ///
KX Studio uses an older kernel, so that might be the cause.
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Old 12-17-2018, 11:27 AM   #12
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Try bitdepth=32.
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Old 12-17-2018, 11:54 AM   #13
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Thanks for your answers!

Now I'm testing Reaper for Linux on Xubuntu 18.04.
At the moment, I get the best RT results with this distro.
(I've also tried: AV Linux 2018, KXStudio 14.04.5, Ubuntu Studio 18.10, Debian Stretch). All those distros are garbage on my system, don't know why...

Now, on Xubuntu 18.04, I don't get the error message from Reaper anymore but it's still unable to use the RME HDSPe RayDAT directly over ALSA (without Jack layer on top of it).

If I open the Reaper config dialog, I can set ALSA to anything I want, for example 64 samples buffer size, 3 periods, 48000HZ sample rate, etc.
Then, I click on "Apply", then on "OK". Then the config dialog disappears and Reaper still displays (in the upper right corner): [Audio device closed]

No matter what I set in the config dialog.

If I set the config dialog to use "HDA Intel PCH" (the onboard audio card) as input and output device, Reaper accepts it as suitable device and I can play the audio (if settings are not so extreme as for low latency).

Currently, I think it would useful to know if it's a Reaper issue (that's why I posted here) or an ALSA issue.

The following packages related to ALSA are installed on my system (synaptic search after "alsa" only in packages name):
alsa-base
alsa-firmware-loaders
alsa-tools-gui
alsa-utils
(that's it)
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Old 12-17-2018, 12:05 PM   #14
Nuri
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@Justin

1.
if I set:
Input channels = 2 Input device = HDA Intel PCH
Output channels = 0 Output device = RME HDSPa RayDAT

Reaper can play the audio tracks.

2.
if I set:
Input channels = 2 Input device = HDA Intel PCH
Output channels = 32 Output device = RME HDSPa RayDAT

Reaper CAN'T play the audio tracks and displays [audio device closed]

3.
if I set:
Input channels = 0 Input device = RME HDSPa RayDAT
Output channels = 2 Output device = HDA Intel PCH

Reaper can play the audio tracks.

4.
if I set:
Input channels = 32 Input device = RME HDSPa RayDAT
Output channels = 2 Output device = HDA Intel PCH

Reaper CAN'T play the audio tracks and displays [audio device closed]

Is it what you wanted for me to check?
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Old 12-17-2018, 07:33 PM   #15
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try RayDAT on both devices, but 0 channels input (effectively disabling the input). and with various period counts/sizes.
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Old 12-18-2018, 02:59 PM   #16
Nuri
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@Justin

I've set

Code:
Input channels = 0 Input device = RME HDSPe RayDAT
Output channels = x Output device = RME HDSPe RayDAT
No matter the value of "x" (from 0 to 32), Reaper always displays [audio device closed] and can not play anything.
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Old 01-04-2019, 03:48 PM   #17
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ok, I presume it's an ALSA issue...
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuri View Post
ok, I presume it's an ALSA issue...
You know what they say: when you presume something, you make a pres out of u and me.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:38 PM   #19
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@Nuri:

Please post the output of (replace XXX with the name or index of your soundcard):

Code:
aplay -v --dump-hw-params -fdat -d1 -Dhw:XXX /dev/zero
arecord -v --dump-hw-params -fdat -d1 -Dhw:XXX /dev/zero
Maybe that will bring us some enlightment.
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:59 PM   #20
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could this help? http://www.tedfelix.com/linux/linux-midi.html
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Old 01-07-2019, 10:40 AM   #21
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@Jack Winter:

sorry, but I've recently dropped out Linux from the DAW Workstation with the built-in RayDAT.
I will maybe try again Linux later if I can not get Windows to play at 32 or 64 samples buffer size.
Currently I get same results with Win10 and Linux (Xubuntu + Liquorix RT kernel + Jack). The system is playable glitch free at 128 samples on both systems but, at the moment, we're sticking to Win10 because of our Waves plugins.

I though I could get better results directly over ALSA (without the Jack layer that we don't really need).

You can consider this thread as closed (abandoned). At least for the moment...
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Old 01-14-2019, 04:39 AM   #22
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If for some reason you're into installing a new distro, try Linux Mint.
Reaper works perfect there with alsa out of the box, without changing settings.
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Old 01-15-2019, 07:05 AM   #23
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@ bulevardi

the problem is not Reaper + ALSA. That's working if the audio interface is supported by ALSA (I've also a small Mackie USB interface that works).

The problem is that ALSA does not supply Reaper with the right informations for THAT AUDIO INTERFACE: RME HDSPe RayDAT.

That's why I presume my problem is related to ALSA, which obviously does not support this audio interface totally out-of-the-box. Some tweaks are required but I don't know what ones and, as already said, I'm currently running Win10 because I've no time to tweak Linux at the moment.
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Old 01-15-2019, 12:17 PM   #24
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It's kind of academic as you aren't using Linux But I asked for the output of:
Code:
aplay -v --dump-hw-params -fdat -d1 -Dhw:XXX /dev/zero
arecord -v --dump-hw-params -fdat -d1 -Dhw:XXX /dev/zero
Don't know if this is the problem but it's possible that it doesn't have a range of ports, but needs something very specific, like 10 inputs / 12 outputs. Of course it's also possible that the driver is buggy

Still it's unlikely that using the reaper ALSA backend would improve much if anything over the JACK one. The ALSA option is good as people don't have to install JACK or puzzle over ALSA vs JACK MIDI.
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Last edited by Jack Winter; 01-15-2019 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 01-19-2019, 06:31 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuri View Post
the problem is not Reaper + ALSA. That's working if the audio interface is supported by ALSA (I've also a small Mackie USB interface that works).

The problem is that ALSA does not supply Reaper with the right informations for THAT AUDIO INTERFACE: RME HDSPe RayDAT.
So in fact, ALSA works (with your Mackie usb).
It's your RME HDSPe RayDAT that's not working together with ALSA.

Do you get your RME HDSPe RayDAT to work in other linux DAWs, like Audacity/Ardour?

I found a thread here from someone else with the same problem fiddling around:
https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?t=17150

The conclusion was to ask the Raydat Linux support forum, here it is:
There's a RAYDAT linux support forum too:
https://discourse.ardour.org/t/rme-hdspe-raydat/85295/5

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=20386

But I cannot find a straight solution here to test it out.
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:26 PM   #26
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I feel it might be a 'PULSE' problem - if you feel its an ALSA problem. Have you tried to kill pulse or temp disable. I wrestled with pulse a lot back in the day... it seemed to change my settings aggressively on a few set up.
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Old 01-10-2020, 08:37 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Winter View Post
FWIW, on my rme hdsp multiface, 64 samples & 2 periods is the minimum that I can set.
Hello Mr.Jack White,
I hope you're doing great.

I wanted to ask you a question regarding how you were able to get your system working inside Reaper Linux native version.

I do have exactly the same gear (hdsp multiface) and after many hours of figuring out what in the world is going on (just started using and fiddling around with Linux about 10 days ago), I was able to have Linux recognize the interface and have it show up as an option for input/output device in the audio device settings page when I select ALSA as a device to be used. (As shown in the image 1)

But, for a reason I have no idea at the moment, I can't get Reaper to play (the play button in the transport bar does not respond) and also have input options show up when I try to select one by right-clicking the rec button to pop the menu up (Image 2).

Maybe it is just a matter of some simple tweaking (hopefully), but since you have managed to get it working, it would be greatly appreciated if you can give me a few pointers.

I know that life would be easier if I just purchased an interface that's compatible with Linux, but I do like the Multiface which I have been using forever and would love to continue doing that if possible.

Thank you in advance and have a lovely day.
Rosetree
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File Type: png Image 1-ALSA page settings-.png (17.9 KB, 243 views)
File Type: png Image 2 -No input selection available-.png (16.9 KB, 226 views)
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Old 01-10-2020, 09:46 PM   #28
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Have you tried bit depth settings other than "32"? That's unnecessary. 24-bit is more than enough, and 32-bit for that device won't provide any additional benefit (it'll only take up more drive space for the recorded files).

It's possible that it will only work in 16-bit and 24-bit recording modes.

Also I use priority of 30 (modified from the default setting to help a bit with performance). I don't think "0" is a good setting, necessarily.

Plus that blocksize is a bit high. I'm using 64 (and 5 blocks) at 44.1 KHz and it's solid as anything. With my 2i2 that is.

You can also try setting it to 2 in / 2 out as a test, if that affects anything for some reason. Just to help eliminate variables.
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Old 10-31-2021, 05:06 AM   #29
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Same issue here with RME AIO (non Pro)

ALSA: error setting input device period count

Issue only goes away when selecting max possible blocksize and period (2048 / 8) but this yields 298ms latency, unsuitable for realtime monitoring.

Worth noting, when JACK2 is inserted between ALSA and REAPER latencies as low as < 3ms can be achieved with JACK set to 64/2 with no xruns on the same system.

It is not a hardware issue and for some reason JACK2 works well with ALSA and REAPER does not, to the point the card is unusable.


```
aplay -v --dump-hw-params -fdat -d1 -Dhw:HDSPMx8ec605 /dev/zero
Playing raw data '/dev/zero' : Signed 16 bit Little Endian, Rate 48000 Hz, Stereo
HW Params of device "hw:HDSPMx8ec605":
--------------------
ACCESS: MMAP_NONINTERLEAVED RW_NONINTERLEAVED
FORMAT: S32_LE
SUBFORMAT: STD
SAMPLE_BITS: 32
FRAME_BITS: [320 512]
CHANNELS: [10 16]
RATE: [32000 192000]
PERIOD_TIME: (166 128000]
PERIOD_SIZE: [32 4096]
PERIOD_BYTES: [1280 262144]
PERIODS: [4 512]
BUFFER_TIME: (85333 512000]
BUFFER_SIZE: 16384
BUFFER_BYTES: [655360 1048576]
TICK_TIME: ALL
--------------------

```
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Old 03-28-2022, 05:26 AM   #30
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The ALSA driver for AIO reports a buffer size of 16384 which is 8 * 2048, unsurprisingly the only combination in the audio configuration window that does not get rejected: 8 (periods) * 2048 (blocksize).

BUFFER_SIZE: 16384

But the driver also reports a different parameter called period size which starts at values as low as 32.

PERIOD_SIZE: [32 4096]

Ardour and JACK allow to select any values in the PERIOD_SIZE range, resulting in incredibly low latency on an old 2013 system. I'm tempted to think there is something in REAPER's ALSA implementation that needs attention, it does not seem to be a card or driver problem.
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Old 09-22-2022, 06:25 AM   #31
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I don't use ALSA in Reaper because I get hanging MIDI notes and have to press F3 every time I try to record something. Otherwise it works fine at low latencies with my RME HDSP 9652.

What bothers me is that at some point it used to work ok, no hanging MIDI notes, but I can't remember what version of Reaper was it. It was v6, maybe around v6.2 or so.

So now I'm using Jack which works great and I must say I feel very satisfied, actually. I managed to suspend Pulseaudio almost completely. Firefox is playing PA audio into Jack through a Jack sink. PA is practically just an audio router now.

PA is a headache. Even Jack - pretty complicated to setup properly for a newbie [which I'm not]. Can't wait to start using Pipewire, but it's not in Debian 11 yet. Maybe in Debian 12.
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Old 09-23-2022, 08:51 AM   #32
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If you want to use ALSA

Go to Preferences -> Audio -> Device

select ALSA and check Auto-suspend PulseAudio
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Old 09-23-2022, 11:45 PM   #33
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Ha! Just upgraded Debian to 11 [pun? ] and it has Pipewire. Gosh, what a painless process in comparison to upgrading Windows [and the last W I used was 7]. Took me whole 20 minutes and 4 console commands. How great is that? yeeepee!

However, for now [until I get into tweaking config files] everything works the same. Which means - very good. I have Pipewire and Pulseaudio which takes much less memory than before so I suppose Debian devs made PA work through Pipewire because of Firesox perhaps. I still have to use Jack to make everything audio work properly. Reaper gives me hanging notes with ALSA. Works impeccably with Jacky, though.

Now I get to enjoy some more new plugins that didn't work before... Off to the playground!

Cheers!
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Old 09-30-2022, 04:03 AM   #34
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I have Linux Mint ver 21 which after a update I received this past week works fine with ALSA.

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