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02-12-2023, 06:40 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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Can we have a thread about this custom button stuff?
yes?
because it seems really interesting but I'd love to experiment with it - is it more a thing that a themer or someone more adept at WALTER should do and not me?
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02-13-2023, 12:08 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Zhytomyr,Ukraine
Posts: 449
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Hi Custom buttons work in transport and envelope too.
custom envcp.custom.button
custom trans.custom.button
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02-15-2023, 09:11 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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anyone have any step by step on how to use this functionality? I am sure we will see some tutorials once its official, but anything that is non-WALTER user friendly?
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02-15-2023, 09:29 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,570
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does this mean metronome can finally live in the transport bar?
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02-15-2023, 09:42 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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tbh I am not 100 percent sure WHAT it means, but I have seen people popping buttons on the TCP for things and such
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02-15-2023, 11:09 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 10,474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds
does this mean metronome can finally live in the transport bar?
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Yep, but not sure if the right click to open click options will work.
But, you can place also grid resolution, markers/region stuff or anything
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02-15-2023, 12:25 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,570
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that's great news
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02-15-2023, 03:27 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Zhytomyr,Ukraine
Posts: 449
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Hi. Right click not work... but
Code:
custom trans.custom.metronome "" 40364 "Metronome" "Transport_metronome"
set trans.custom.metronome [180 1 30 30 0 0 0 0]
custom trans.custom.metset "" 40363 "Metronome Settings" "Transport_Metronome_settings"
set trans.custom.metset [209 8 11 17 0 0 0 0]
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02-15-2023, 04:09 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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where do you put these entries? In the theme itself but where?
probably need an icon for it and then to reference it ... but I wish there was some kind of guide for this particular thing
Last edited by Jae.Thomas; 02-15-2023 at 05:33 PM.
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02-15-2023, 06:46 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,826
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Images dont toggle yet, right?
__________________
Stop posting huge images, smaller images or thumbnail, it's not rocket science!
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02-15-2023, 07:18 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Win Conway
Images dont toggle yet, right?
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I don't know. I am pretty ignorant of the entire subject so...
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02-16-2023, 10:30 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,872
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I am wondering if this will get so advanced to allow scripts with UI to be added to, for example, to the transport. This way I could replace the native BPM field with a scripted one which allows BPM to be adjusted via mouse drag (instead of typing or scrolling which both have drawbacks).
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02-17-2023, 10:23 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazma
I am wondering if this will get so advanced to allow scripts with UI to be added to, for example, to the transport. This way I could replace the native BPM field with a scripted one which allows BPM to be adjusted via mouse drag (instead of typing or scrolling which both have drawbacks).
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I would hope one could add buttons easily, and scripts could do that too - but I think maybe it would have to really be refined in order to prevent some kind of corruption of the themes and get stuff messed up
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02-25-2023, 01:00 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 648
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This is very nice idea and good direction. It will be even more cool if it read images for diffrent states/steps like this:
mybtn toggle action_state0.png
mybtn toggle action_state1.png
mybtn toggle action_state2.png
Show window 1.png
Show window 0.png
__________________
Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude.
It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;
it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Corinthians 13:4-6
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03-31-2023, 08:16 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 43
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oh my, the transport too!
Was just searching if there was a way to do this (usually is with reaper lol) while learning to make a theme from clear *
I couldn't get it working from the examples in another thread and couldn't for the life of me figure out why? but after a small search I come to the realisation that this feature is only present in the pre builds, which I've not usually been interested in until now.
This would be amazing if/when it makes it to the stable builds (going to write the WALTER for it anyway and test in a portable install as it's just ignored in the stable build and the space is left, and no biggie to shift a few things around so no harm there.)
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04-02-2023, 08:57 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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Yeah, I decided to wait and see how this works, but I think some kind of user friendly way to do this would be good. This is a functional thing that could be VERY useful for users.
I realize some people might make reaper look terrible but who cares
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04-02-2023, 02:57 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 876
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I also think we have to wait and see which other functions will more generally support the buttons' ability to show states, which is clearly needed. This applies both to buttons with sliced images as well as coded type of buttons.
But then, I most hope for a solution like we have with toolbars where it is easy for the user to change functions, where e.g. there are 8 slots available which are named in a specific way and can be revealed via the native REAPER customizing menu. This will primarily support a more coherent and homogeneous user experience with REAPER. With that I mean that it will be a shame if it is all based on the functions being written into the theme configuration itself, and how it works now.
So I think the buttons should follow the user, regardless of which theme is used, whether it is classic_1x. The only criterion is, of course, that the given theme must offer the use of custom buttons, so that there is something to connect the user actions. If a theme has fewer buttons, or that there is too little space compared to how many the user has defined, then you have to switch around and prioritize, just like we do in toolbars.
In addition, there may be special unlisted buttons in themes, such as supplementary functions in the transport bar, or elsewhere, and where you can then go crazy with coding and scripts to change functions via the configuration. But all this is secondary.
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04-03-2023, 08:15 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,872
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Don't have time to mess with themes currently, but I am wondering if with the current implementation of custom buttons it would already be possible to create something like this?
P.S.: I am aware that Reaper's MCP FX list shows a variable number of slots so a theme using this can hardly be shared as it would work only if the screen size/resolution of the user is the same as the theme creators'. Also the theme needs to disable resizing the MCP.
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04-03-2023, 08:19 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,207
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Yes, I am so so so so excited this is the biggest leverage feature imo to be put in Reaper for ease of use, just waiting on some talented themes to put it to use. I do suspect version 7 theme to utilise it quite a bit also with the theme adjuster, enabling and disabling a huge swathe of new button in TCP, transport, etc.
It will make better use of screen space and present more of Reaper's newer features to the new user in an obvious way.
And devs just snuck it in there
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04-03-2023, 10:47 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Zhytomyr,Ukraine
Posts: 449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazma
Don't have time to mess with themes currently, but I am wondering if with the current implementation of custom buttons it would already be possible to create something like this?
P.S.: I am aware that Reaper's MCP FX list shows a variable number of slots so a theme using this can hardly be shared as it would work only if the screen size/resolution of the user is the same as the theme creators'. Also the theme needs to disable resizing the MCP.
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Hi. Yes its possible
Theme use size (fx slots) sets from rtconfig. You can use scale in your theme like default reaper theme
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04-03-2023, 11:41 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNJUK2
Hi. Yes its possible
Theme use size (fx slots) sets from rtconfig. You can use scale in your theme like default reaper theme
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Wohoo Can't wait to integrate that into my theme! Thanks for sharing this!
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04-03-2023, 11:55 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,872
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Devs, not sure if you're reading this thread but if you do...
Would it be too much of a stretch to give us a similar feature also for items? I know items are not WALTER elements but it would suffice to allow adding additional mouse hitpoints next to the already existing item buttons and link each one to a small image the user/themer can design and to an action from the action list.
That would be super handy for adding item-specific features we often use directly as buttons to the items. I imagine actions like toggle mono/stereo, reverse item, glue item or even more specific scripts like sending to sampler etc.
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04-03-2023, 12:01 PM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Larisa, Greece
Posts: 3,797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazma
Devs, not sure if you're reading this thread but if you do...
Would it be too much of a stretch to give us a similar feature also for items? I know items are not WALTER elements but it would suffice to allow adding additional mouse hitpoints next to the already existing item buttons and link each one to a small image the user/themer can design and to an action from the action list.
That would be super handy for adding item-specific features we often use directly as buttons to the items. I imagine actions like toggle mono/stereo, reverse item, glue item or even more specific scripts like sending to sampler etc.
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+1
related FR:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=274875
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05-03-2023, 12:44 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Berlin
Posts: 1,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strachupl
This is very nice idea and good direction. It will be even more cool if it read images for diffrent states/steps like this:
mybtn toggle action_state0.png
mybtn toggle action_state1.png
mybtn toggle action_state2.png
Show window 1.png
Show window 0.png
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Some mechanism for handling stateful buttons would be great. For instance, I would like to replace the record-arm/record-monitor pair with a single 3-mode button (arm, monitor-only, off).
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05-03-2023, 02:50 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,872
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IMO the most important next addition to these custom buttons would be to support 3-slice images which show “normal”, “mouseover” and “pressed” state of a button, so it can be used properly with toggle actions while giving appropriate visual feedback.
I hope the development on this feature will continue soon as it is a potentially very powerful feature!
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05-03-2023, 03:29 AM
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#26
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Pixel Pusher
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Blighty
Posts: 4,950
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These can be action buttons, if you like, exactly like on your toolbars but on WALTER panels. The way that actions can interact with tracks is that some actions have a 'selected tracks' component. Not 'this track'. It can be similar to 'this track', but its not the same, and doesn't work per-track, for example with a lot of different tracks having different states. Pressing the buttons fires the desired state to selected tracks. So the button itself has no state to show, beyond 'I will do this'.
Maybe its chicken and egg. There hasn't before been a context for 'this track' in actions, so there aren't any actions for 'this track'. There is in Reascript, maybe that's a way to go eventually.
I'm having some fun on the transport bar, but for tracks to far I'm finding the action button stuff to be a red herring. No doubt I'm missing something. Maybe someone else will come up with a killer app, I hope so, but meanwhile to me that's overshadowing the real awesomeness: these are custom, walterable, colourable, transparentable blocks of whatever you like. Which is huge. Huge.
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05-03-2023, 03:36 AM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Berlin
Posts: 1,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie
These can be action buttons, if you like, exactly like on your toolbars but on WALTER panels. The way that actions can interact with tracks is that some actions have a 'selected tracks' component. Not 'this track'. It can be similar to 'this track', but its not the same, and doesn't work per-track, for example with a lot of different tracks having different states. Pressing the buttons fires the desired state to selected tracks. So the button itself has no state to show, beyond 'I will do this'.
Maybe its chicken and egg. There hasn't before been a context for 'this track' in actions, so there aren't any actions for 'this track'. There is in Reascript, maybe that's a way to go eventually.
I'm having some fun on the transport bar, but for tracks to far I'm finding the action button stuff to be a red herring. No doubt I'm missing something. Maybe someone else will come up with a killer app, I hope so, but meanwhile to me that's overshadowing the real awesomeness: these are custom, walterable, colourable, transparentable blocks of whatever you like. Which is huge. Huge.
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That's a good point, thanks WT. Hope springs eternal, of course. Since we can generally determine the track under the mouse, I think there ought to be ways to achieve statefulness, particularly if we get access to some additional track-local properties via WALTER variables.
For now, there's not much stuff I would personally want to use custom buttons for, in my TCP-centric view of the world, at least in their current conception. But the future is bright, and I'm in no hurry to watch this stuff bloom.
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05-03-2023, 03:41 AM
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#28
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Pixel Pusher
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Blighty
Posts: 4,950
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Anything can be a WALTER variable now because that's how theme scripting works. See HERE.
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05-03-2023, 04:43 AM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,872
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Yeah good point White Tie.
As a workaround one can wrap the wanted action into a custom action like this (as I have given an example few posts earlier):
- SWS: Save current track selection
- Track: Unselect (clear selection of) all tracks
- SWS/BR: Select TCP track under mouse cursor - (or MCP respectively)
- Wanted action
- SWS: Restore saved track selection
But yes, this is a workaround and I hope the devs take this feature seriously and give it some development time, including adding other needed features like a possibility to trigger actions on tracks under mouse cursor if buttons are added to TCP/MCP. People will obviously assume it works this way if they can add buttons to TCP/MCP and if it doesn’t work that way it will feel like something works incorrectly (even if it isn’t the case).
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05-03-2023, 06:19 AM
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#30
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Pixel Pusher
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Blighty
Posts: 4,950
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Its two different things, and it seems that's not about the buttons, that's about the actions. That the buttons, as they stand, have all the features that make sense for now? So maybe a whole load of new actions is the real ask, perhaps a very big and very different ask. And if that is the case, maybe Reascript is the more promising route instead of the actions... either way, I don't feel the way forwards for development (if any) is as clear as it might at first appear.
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05-03-2023, 07:28 AM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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It would just be so nice to have the average user to be able to add buttons like this - but I realize that it just can't (and maybe shouldn't) be that easy.
Then we are left with requests that puts heaps of work on other people for potentially very niche "needs."
I don't want to be one of "those" people but man, it would be so cool to have a few custom buttons.
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05-03-2023, 07:34 AM
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#32
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Pixel Pusher
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Blighty
Posts: 4,950
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If you don't think of these as buttons, but as custom walter elements, they're really awesome. The kind of thing we've wanted for many years.
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05-03-2023, 12:10 PM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie
If you don't think of these as buttons, but as custom walter elements, they're really awesome. The kind of thing we've wanted for many years.
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so you would probably say that one would have to just learn WALTER bottom up to be able to do some of this stuff? Or is there a "cheater" path to get there?
I mean, as an 18 year reaper user I should probably learn it lol
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05-03-2023, 02:45 PM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie
Its two different things, and it seems that's not about the buttons, that's about the actions. That the buttons, as they stand, have all the features that make sense for now? So maybe a whole load of new actions is the real ask, perhaps a very big and very different ask. And if that is the case, maybe Reascript is the more promising route instead of the actions... either way, I don't feel the way forwards for development (if any) is as clear as it might at first appear.
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Not sure if I am following. Ok let's leave TCP/MCP buttons and the need for "this track" actions apart for now.
Aren't there still toggle actions which would benefit from custom WALTER buttons supporting 3-slice images?
Let's say we want to add the action to toggle the metronome to the transport. It would be great to have one image when the metronome is off and a different one when it is on. This way we could easily see what is happening.
Actually with ordinary toolbar buttons we already have this possibility. Buttons assigned to toggle actions get a different color in "armed" state so that we know they are active.
I believe the same thing would be useful with custom WALTER buttons too. To be able to assign them to a 3-slice image and if the assigned action is not a toggle action only the "normal" and "mouseover" parts are used and if it is a toggle action also the "pressed" part of the image is used.
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05-03-2023, 03:19 PM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergler
Yes, I am so so so so excited this is the biggest leverage feature imo to be put in Reaper for ease of use, just waiting on some talented themes to put it to use. I do suspect version 7 theme to utilise it quite a bit also with the theme adjuster, enabling and disabling a huge swathe of new button in TCP, transport, etc.
It will make better use of screen space and present more of Reaper's newer features to the new user in an obvious way.
And devs just snuck it in there
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I agree. It is powerfull thing. I thought about it many years ago and now it is real. What a nice feeling.
__________________
Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude.
It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;
it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Corinthians 13:4-6
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05-04-2023, 12:14 AM
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#36
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Pixel Pusher
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Blighty
Posts: 4,950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazma
I believe the same thing would be useful with custom WALTER buttons too. .
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Fair enough. But can we be clear that's turning a walter panel into being exactly like one of the toolbar panels, but for some reason hard coded by the themer rather than the user? As I say, there's some fun to be had with that on the transport, but its not what some people in the thread appear to be projecting onto it, so I hope people don't get angry if they get disappointed. Its a huge feature for non-button-related reasons, if nothing else.
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05-04-2023, 07:07 AM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 2,872
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Ok I think I get what you are saying. It doesn’t neccessarily need to be a button in the traditional sense but can more generally just be a hitpoint that makes a certain area of a theme behave a certain way (based on actions).
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie
But can we be clear that's turning a walter panel into being exactly like one of the toolbar panels, but for some reason hard coded by the themer rather than the user?
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I think that is actually a great use case of this feature. Toolbars are limited in where they can be put and they can take up much space. A cleverly designed theme that makes use of this feature can place many actions in spots where they make sense, always accessible and without taking up extra space with dockers. The more advanced this gets the more it gives themers the power to not just skin Reaper but come up with an entire UI/UX concept that fits their theme.
Btw if this feature is released enough time before Reaper 7, do you think you might make use of it for the new default theme or do you believe this should be used rather for more specialised themes with different workflows?
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05-04-2023, 08:11 AM
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#38
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Pixel Pusher
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Blighty
Posts: 4,950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazma
Ok I think I get what you are saying. It doesn’t neccessarily need to be a button in the traditional sense but can more generally just be a hitpoint that makes a certain area of a theme behave a certain way (based on actions).
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No, not hitpoint not behave not actions. I'm just drawing blocks of colour, wherever I want, on WALTER panels, and everything about them can be controlled by a friendly user-facing script. Its a big deal. Buttons schmuttons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazma
if this feature is released enough time before Reaper 7, do you think you might make use of it for the new default theme
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To do what? This is my concern, there seems to be this expectation that some transformative button functionality thing has happened, and that someone is going to reinvent Reaper themes with it. Maybe that's true, but so far that person is not me. If you've got a killer app then awesome I'm all ears, but till then lets all be like three little Fonzies here.
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05-04-2023, 08:32 PM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie
I'm just drawing blocks of colour, wherever I want, on WALTER panels, and everything about them can be controlled by a friendly user-facing script. Its a big deal.
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Would you be willing to give us a hint as to how someone might use this with recording/mixing/mastering in mind, or is the purpose mainly a UI/Theme improvement?
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05-06-2023, 10:50 AM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,570
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I'm imagining buttons that normally reside in the default main toolbar could be moved to the transport.
Not a very clever example but something I'd like to see happen.
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