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Old 03-08-2023, 04:18 AM   #1
elcalen
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Default Airwindows Verbity and Chamber, and some starting points for them

Verbity and Chamber are a couple pretty nice reverbs from Airwindows. Some nice things about them, like most Airwindows plugins, is that they're 1) free and open source, 2) quite simple, and 3) very resource friendly, with small size and low CPU usage. BUT, like other Airwindows plugins, they don't come with any presets and dialing in good values might be a little daunting.

So, I recently decided to sit down and try to make a couple decent presets for my own use. What I did was I loaded up an instance of ReaVerb with some of those nice Bricasti M7 IRs that a lot of people use, and comparing Verbity and Chambers to those tried to dial in a similar sound. Obviously it's never going to be identical, just trying to get in the ballpark. The results weren't terrible, imho, though obviously others might come up with better ones.

One of the bigger potential issues with these plugins is that their stereo image can be a little narrower than other reverbs (including those M7 IRs), likely a result of the dual mono design they're based on. Depending on context, this may or may not be an issue.

Having done this, I figured I'd share the settings with you folks. Who knows, maybe they could be of use to someone... These are just meant to be starting points, fine tune to taste and to suit the material... There's a room, chamber, and hall style setting for Verbity, and a room and chamber for Chamber:



NOTE: the recently released Verbity2 and Chamber2 plugins are *not* just replacements for the first Verbity and Chamber plugins; they're quite different sounding with different controls. While they surely have their pros, I found it harder to dial in sounds similar to these with them...

EDIT: I've attached a zip with the rpl files. (These are set up for use as send fx, if using as an insert the Wetness slider obviously has to be turned way down.)
Attached Files
File Type: zip airwindows_reverb_presets_by_elcalen.zip (787 Bytes, 58 views)
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Last edited by elcalen; 03-09-2023 at 07:12 AM.
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Old 03-08-2023, 08:09 AM   #2
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Cool! Thanks for sharing. I use the Bricasti IRs with the LSP Impulse Reverb, so your presets might be ones I'd use.
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Old 03-08-2023, 10:02 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elcalen View Post
Verbity and Chamber are a couple pretty nice reverbs from Airwindows. Some nice things about them, like most Airwindows plugins, is that they're 1) free and open source, 2) quite simple, and 3) very resource friendly, with small size and low CPU usage. BUT, like other Airwindows plugins, they don't come with any presets and dialing in good values might be a little daunting.
You know I've ported 4 of those to jsfx?: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=275301 and https://github.com/chmaha/ReaClassic...e/main/Reverbs.

Verbity, Verbity2, Galactic and Chamber2 are called Bricastic, Bricastic2, Interstellar and PhiVerb respectively in jsfx universe. I do find that they are totally useless for classical music but maybe they might be fine for other genres. They are not a patch on the M7, Seventh Heaven or the Samplicity IRs in terms of quality and don't come close to the smooth sounding tail (or real true stereo). Note that both Verbity and Chamber are dual mono 'verbs.

I'm not being critical of your presets. No doubt you've gotten the best you can out of the plugin sounds but I think unlike other DSP where he is clearly doing great things, Chris is still very much finding his feet with reverbs.
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Last edited by chmaha; 03-08-2023 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 03-08-2023, 10:54 AM   #4
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Considering how CPU-light these plugins are, I don't think I've encountered another reverb that sounds as good without using a lot more CPU. (Like, we're talking almost an order of magnitude in difference between these and ReaVerb in zero latency mode.) Now, of course for most people with modern computers that's not necessarily an issue, at least if you're not using many instances, but it's still a consideration...

I'm aware that they use a dual-mono design, and I did note that the Bricasti IRs would often sound a little more wide and spacious. Now, whether that matters is obviously highly situational and subjective.

I was mostly experimenting with them on drums or percussion. I feel like that's probably the scenario where I'd personally be most likely to consider using them. (For stuff like synths I've been liking TAL Reverb 4 lately. Definitely not a "natural" reverb, but quite big and lush.)
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Old 03-08-2023, 11:38 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elcalen View Post
Considering how CPU-light these plugins are, I don't think I've encountered another reverb that sounds as good without using a lot more CPU. (Like, we're talking almost an order of magnitude in difference between these and ReaVerb in zero latency mode.) Now, of course for most people with modern computers that's not necessarily an issue, at least if you're not using many instances, but it's still a consideration...

I'm aware that they use a dual-mono design, and I did note that the Bricasti IRs would often sound a little more wide and spacious. Now, whether that matters is obviously highly situational and subjective.

I was mostly experimenting with them on drums or percussion. I feel like that's probably the scenario where I'd personally be most likely to consider using them. (For stuff like synths I've been liking TAL Reverb 4 lately. Definitely not a "natural" reverb, but quite big and lush.)
ReaVerb is IR-based (at least how I assume you are comparing it) so of course it will be magnitudes higher in CPU use. For a comparison of apples to apples, try my Enover or RCVerbs (both based on the excellent Zita-Rev1):

https://github.com/chmaha/Enover or https://github.com/chmaha/RCverb

Verbity (original) in jsfx form reached 0.08% but Enover/RCVerb as LV2 only read 0.03% when viewing in REAPER's performance meter. And it's much better DSP IMHO. The airwindows verbs all have weird, coarse, metallic tails and uncontrollable modulation. I do, however, have high hopes and confidence that Chris will one day produce a reverb that challenges the big players. He has certainly proven himself in other areas. I can't say fairer than that.
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Last edited by chmaha; 03-08-2023 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 03-08-2023, 12:50 PM   #6
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I experimented a little with RCVerb/Enover, and they're certainly not bad, but they do have a different vibe, at least with drums. They can sound a little wider and airier, but I'm finding with the Airwindows plugins I'm getting a more present and intimate feel, more like being stuck in a small, echoey room with the drum kit. And the Airwindows VSTs are still using less CPU, though the difference is fairly small.
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Old 03-08-2023, 01:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elcalen View Post
I experimented a little with RCVerb/Enover, and they're certainly not bad, but they do have a different vibe, at least with drums. They can sound a little wider and airier, but I'm finding with the Airwindows plugins I'm getting a more present and intimate feel, more like being stuck in a small, echoey room with the drum kit. And the Airwindows VSTs are still using less CPU, though the difference is fairly small.
Yes, a very different vibe. I can honestly say that I only ever judge reverbs by how they sound on orchestral, keyboard or choral music so I'm a little biased towards true stereo, smooth tails, and spaces like halls and cathedrals. If the airwindows reverbs work for your music then great. I'd be interested to see how my jsfx ports compare to the original VSTs in terms of CPU on your machine.
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Old 03-08-2023, 02:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chmaha View Post
I can honestly say that I only ever judge reverbs by how they sound on orchestral, keyboard or choral music so I'm a little biased towards true stereo, smooth tails, and spaces like halls and cathedrals.
Yeah, I would definitely be curious to know what people doing more pop/rock oriented stuff think about them. The Airwindows verbs definitely give me more of a studio echo chamber style vibe than that of a natural space.

And I should point out I haven't tested these presets in actual mixing context yet, only with some random loops. I think they probably aren't *better* than something like the Samplicity M7 IRs, but they might be "good enough" for some purposes.


Quote:
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I'd be interested to see how my jsfx ports compare to the original VSTs in terms of CPU on your machine.
Based on just a very brief test, it does look like your JSFX stuff is reporting up to 3-4 times as much CPU use compared to the VSTs. Like I'm seeing about 0.1% for Verbity, but even up to 0.5% for your Bricastic. Tube2 is reading as 0.07%, while your Valvity is at 0.21%.

This is running at 48k, large buffer (2048spls), on a 6th generation i3 (performance mode, so no scaling should be happening).
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Old 03-08-2023, 02:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elcalen View Post
Based on just a very brief test, it does look like your JSFX stuff is reporting up to 3-4 times as much CPU use compared to the VSTs. Like I'm seeing about 0.1% for Verbity, but even up to 0.5% for your Bricastic. Tube2 is reading as 0.07%, while your Valvity is at 0.21%.

This is running at 48k, large buffer (2048spls), on a 6th generation i3 (performance mode, so no scaling should be happening).
I'm not quite sure how REAPER reports CPU % but bear in mind that jsfx are single thread.
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Old 03-09-2023, 01:26 AM   #10
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This isn't directly related to my original post, but it's another reverb effect using Airwindows plugins that I've actually been using for a while now: a shimmer effect made by chaining GlitchShifter into Galactic, using roughly the settings below. I like it in particular with pads and other sustained sounds, adds some nice high frequency sparkle to the sound.

This works best as a send effect, and I might pair it with a regular reverb send for a really big sound. Typically I'll have a high pass filter at the end of the chain as well.

TAL Reverb 4 also has a built in pitch shift effect now, that I've also been occasionally using. But it doesn't sound quite the same, and for some stuff I still prefer this chain.

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Old 03-09-2023, 01:59 AM   #11
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Given the cross-platform nature of airwindows, this would also have been good in the main forum! Thanks for the heads-up about Glitchshifter. Sounds like another one to port
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Old 03-09-2023, 03:35 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by chmaha View Post
Given the cross-platform nature of airwindows, this would also have been good in the main forum!
Yeah, I know... But given that these plugins are quite popular with Linux users, plus the fact that I'm quite shy and prefer a smaller audience, I decided to post here. (And non-Linux folks obviously also have a lot more plugin variety at their disposal, stuff like Valhalla Shimmer which, while not free, for a lot of people would be the go-to for this style of pitch shifted effect...)
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Old 03-20-2023, 02:50 AM   #13
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Thank you for an interesting thread that made me check Airwindows plugins, compile and install chmaha ones and play with them for hours. Thank you chmaha for 2 nice reverbs and I'm trying to figure out RCComp. All plugins are fairly subtle, which is to be expected from you.

Sean "Valhalla" Costello has a free huge sounding reverb called "Supermassive" which sounds a bit like Eventide Blackhole. It's a lovely reverb not available for Linux unfortunately and I'm not too delighted with using WINE. I use an extra computer with Windows on it for that.

Cheers!
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