Allow routing MIDI from folder to children

[Phazma]

TL ; DR This picture by AZpercussion sums up my request (read below for explanation/argumentation):




In Reaper there is no way to put a bunch of tracks (with different instruments and FX chains) into a Folder, close the folder track, select it and trigger the whole layered sound with a midi keyboard or midi item. The only way to do it is by creating an extra track that serves only as "midi track" to play the whole thing, while the folder is only a "summing track". Apart from the cluttering extra track and the tedious manual routing it is annoying to switch back and forth between bus and midi track for playing/editing the midi or tweaking the sound.

It would be wonderful to have just one single folder track that recieves audio from all children and sends midi to all children, controlling the whole layered sound with just 1 track and opening the folder only when a specific layer needs some adjustment.

Of course I guess it may be problematic if midi is sent back from the child to the parent (creating feedback) so I imagine this being implemented with either a per track "midi direction switch", or more simply a project or global preference, which enables either routing midi down from parent to children or up from children to parent but never allows both at the same time.

Audio routing of course should not in any way be altered by this and always remain from children to parent.

[mschnell]

AFAIU, you can route Midi from any track to any other (using the Routing button).

-Michael

[Phazma]

I had already tried but it doesn’t work.

[mschnell]

Testing, I found that midi is routed to the parent track even without manually configuring.
But vice versa is blocked.
Of course this is understood, as it would generate a loop. OTOH, if "master send" is off (or if there would be configurable filters), it might be viable.

-Michael

[ivan.lt]

Yeah, I'd use this too.

[Phazma]

As a workaround for this I have been trying to layer instruments on a single track. However, as can be read in this thread, Reaper performs much better when layered VSTi instruments are spread across tracks instead of layered on one track.

It is really tedious to select a MIDI sending track to play your instrument, then select a Bus track to tweak or toggle FX, then go back to the MIDI track to play and hear what happened, then back to the Bus to make adjustments and so forth..

It would be so much more convenient (and less messy in the arrangement window) to just hide a bunch of instruments on separate tracks in a collapsed folder, select that folder track and play/process the whole layered stack of VSTis as if it was just one instrument on one track. And if adjustments to individual instruments are needed, the folder can easily be opened, the selected track in question adjusted and the folder closed again.

Anyone else wishing for such elegant workflow with stacked VSTis? We just need that MIDI to go from folder down to children..

[Phazma]

Updated FR with picture.

[FeedTheCat]

Big +1 from me. I tried all sorts of stuff to try and make this work when I first installed reaper.

Please consider this devs. It's one of those features that from a user perspective makes perfect sense. It would give the folder feature a completely new dimension for anyone working with MIDI instruments.

[smandrap]

+1

Working with instrument multiouts would be sooooooo much easier

[deeb]

This would be useful to have, but I have the feeling that if the container works smoothly i will do this (layering) in the same track.

[rncwalker]

Originally Posted by mschnell

AFAIU, you can route Midi from any track to any other (using the Routing button).

-Michael

For tracks YES!

If it's a Folder track with MIDI on it sending to a child track, then NO!

I just tried it.


EDIT: Just saw all of the other post after my post.

Robert

[FeedTheCat]

Originally Posted by deeb

This would be useful to have, but I have the feeling that if the container works smoothly i will do this (layering) in the same track.

Layering is just one thing this would be useful for. I'd mostly use it for drums where you usually want the combined MIDI on one track but different faders for mixing. E.g. MIDI item on folder track, RS5K instances on child tracks.

Depending on how FX container evolves it might turn out great for layering sounds, but it won't give you access to track faders/panning for the mixing stage.

[Phazma]

Nice too see this FR finally gain some traction after I posted the image. I was afraid to be a lone wolf in the quest for this.

Personally I would use FX containers more with audio to do some parallel chains and crazy processing on a single sound but I believe for triggering VST instruments I prefer to have direct access via arrange window, and for example change up the Midi of one layer more easily.

Also, this would utilize the CPU multicore more efficiently than having all on a single track.

And it would also be less CPU intense to record-arm just a folder track rather than 5 layer tracks.

[juan_r]

I like the idea very much, but disabling the default child-to-parent MIDI routing would break backward compatibility. It seems to me, it's either that or allow feedback in your project when you use parent-to-child MIDI.

This could stop this request (which I support anyway) in its tracks.

[Phazma]

Originally Posted by juan_r

I like the idea very much, but disabling the default child-to-parent MIDI routing would break backward compatibility. It seems to me, it's either that or allow feedback in your project when you use parent-to-child MIDI.

This could stop this request (which I support anyway) in its tracks.

I think it could be a per-project (or even per-track) setting, which wouldn’t break any older projects. Of course by default the existing behavior should be maintained.

Allowing feedback would be also a solution but I don’t know the risks of MIDI feedback.. a solution that avoids feedback and allows MIDI only in one or the other direction is probably better.

[n997]

Big +1 for this kind of setting.

I think it would have to be per-track, named something like "Allow sending MIDI to children (disables receiving MIDI from them)".

Routing window would probably be the best place for this setting - a checkbox, maybe? - and the logic for showing it would be something like "if track is a folder, then show this checkbox; else hide/disable it".

The default state of this setting would of course be "off", to maintain current behavior for compatibility with older projects.

[Phazma]

Originally Posted by n997

Big +1 for this kind of setting.

I think it would have to be per-track, named something like "Allow sending MIDI to children (disables receiving MIDI from them)".

Routing window would probably be the best place for this setting - a checkbox, maybe? - and the logic for showing it would be something like "if track is a folder, then show this checkbox; else hide/disable it".

The default state of this setting would of course be "off", to maintain current behavior for compatibility with older projects.

Very reasonable implementation idea. Like it.

Maybe it would make sense to have some tcp icon that indicates this state too (maybe
additional images of the routing button for this state).

[Daodan]

Nice idea!

[sosie]

that would be great! +1