Post-fader plugins inserts

[pepe44]

don´t know how this could be possible but right click the plugin enabling pre post fader for that track no?
Dedicated post fader tracks? ( i guess with track structure in reaper is not an option)

I would not be very confused of having one more layer in the channel strip for post fader inserts..

[venti_cappuccino]

+1

Two very good reasons for me wanting this:
- Sound Radix Pi
- Airwindows Console

Both plugins need to be fed with the end level before mixbus to work properly.

A fader/gain plugin is less convenient. It makes the actual DAW faders useless, which doesn’t make sense.


Edit: Just realized how the “fader position as insert point” was meant. And yes, that would be one possible (good) solution

[Joe90]

I would much prefer a dedicated mixer section with handles that's hideable (just like the FX parameter section) to a mixbus style movable fader implementation.

Having the post fader part of the mixer as it's own dedicated section would allow us to set up something like a post fader channel EQ/frequency analyzer/compressor on all tracks, with GUI's embedded and lined up in a neat row in the mixer.

Being able to see all of this info for every track lined up next to each other makes it MUCH quicker to diagnose mix problems at a large scale. This wouldn't be possible with the 'moveable fader as an insert' approach. Plus for those of you who are only planning to use this for airwindows console plugin that always need to be post fader but rarely need to be tweaked, you can hide that whole post fader section neatly out of the way.

[Phazma]

Totall agree with Joe90. Movable fader insert seems a bit prone to mess things up. Separate section for those that want it and only visible if you want/need it.

[pepe44]

I am hoping to have this feature in a near future we just need to have more people asking for it. Its a fundamental tool for mixing and mastering purposes. .

[puddi]

Originally Posted by Joe90

Having the post fader part of the mixer as it's own dedicated section would allow us to set up something like a post fader channel EQ/frequency analyzer/compressor on all tracks, with GUI's embedded and lined up in a neat row in the mixer.

Being able to see all of this info for every track lined up next to each other makes it MUCH quicker to diagnose mix problems at a large scale. This wouldn't be possible with the 'moveable fader as an insert' approach. Plus for those of you who are only planning to use this for airwindows console plugin that always need to be post fader but rarely need to be tweaked, you can hide that whole post fader section neatly out of the way.

Couldn't agree more with this.

[pepe44]

How Magix deals with pre post inserts is same has mixbus, in what regards to users...not the programming side. (Sequoia in this example)
Just move up or dawn the change and thats it! Easy and functional.

https://ibb.co/k5pZwM4

[thermos]

Another request for this. Currently working on a record in Reaper, Logic, Live and Digital Performer.
Using Sound Radix PI in Reaper is not an option. Parent track literally sends it into a feedback, and if you run it last on the channel it doesn't work as it should.

Running it in Digital Performer is astoundingly great, it is really a great plugin that Reaper users will never get to explore until this feature is implemented.

In DP, you just drag the "hidden" post fx insert line up the plugin chain. It isn't there until you need it. The yellow line represents post fader inserts. Pretty simple and uncluttered.

Here is a DP screenshot.

[rafa1981]

In my case I did a template to have postfader on the buses by means of having those to send to hidden intermediate channels that have the console plugin. It's a mess and solo doesn't work as it should, requires dealing with control groups. Honestly it's messy.

[TonE]

Now we can have this only via parent tracks it seems, loading the fx there, like stem tracks.

[juan_r]

+1

Airwindows console is a good reason, right. As well as other effects that need to "be last, real last, super very last" on a channel.

Another reason for post fader inserts: they just fit Reaper's "best routing ever" concept.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by juan_r

: they just fit Reaper's "best routing ever" concept.

That is a decent argument

-Michael

[Ideosound]

Oh great looks like I just wasted my money on Sound Radix PI, I thought it would work with Reaper fine based on watching White Sea Studio's youtube video of it. I don't want to have to mix leaving the fader at unity and using PI's channel gain knob, that just isn't very intuitive. That info is buried in the manual but it should be slapped across the main product page with highlighted yellow warnings on.


Normally there is never something Reaper can't do but I guess on this occasion it has rarely fallen short. I hope this gets looked at.

[The-Zeronaut]

Originally Posted by Ideosound

Oh great looks like I just wasted my money on Sound Radix PI, I thought it would work with Reaper fine based on watching White Sea Studio's youtube video of it. I don't want to have to mix leaving the fader at unity and using PI's channel gain knob, that just isn't very intuitive. That info is buried in the manual but it should be slapped across the main product page with highlighted yellow warnings on.


Normally there is never something Reaper can't do but I guess on this occasion it has rarely fallen short. I hope this gets looked at.

+1 I didn't know this...massive disappointment indeed.

[pepe44]

Originally Posted by Ideosound

Oh great looks like I just wasted my money on Sound Radix PI, I thought it would work with Reaper fine based on watching White Sea Studio's youtube video of it. I don't want to have to mix leaving the fader at unity and using PI's channel gain knob, that just isn't very intuitive. That info is buried in the manual but it should be slapped across the main product page with highlighted yellow warnings on.


Normally there is never something Reaper can't do but I guess on this occasion it has rarely fallen short. I hope this gets looked at.

You can always use the volume adjustment before the inserted Sound radix and after all the others, acting like a post fader . Thats the workaround for now, until we get a nice implementation of pre/post fader inserts in Reaper.

[pepe44]

This is what Sound Radix recommends :

"...Using Pi
Insert Pi in the last effect insert slot on every mixer channel of your mix, excluding auxiliary channels,
group buses and the master mix.
A channel’s gain plays a significant role when determining the energy of a channel in the mix and the
best phase state for the channel. In order to achieve maximum efficiency, It is recommended to insert
Pi into a post-fader effect slot when the DAW allows doing so. Otherwise, use CHNL GAIN to set the
level of the channel, and set the volume fader of your DAW to unity gain..."

[Ideosound]

Originally Posted by pepe44

You can always use the volume adjustment before the inserted Sound radix and after all the others, acting like a post fader . Thats the workaround for now, until we get a nice implementation of pre/post fader inserts in Reaper.

How does that work then, you use the trim volume do you mean? Don't quite get it. The PI comes last in your insert FX chain.

[pepe44]

Originally Posted by Ideosound

How does that work then, you use the trim volume do you mean? Don't quite get it. The PI comes last in your insert FX chain.

i meant after the sound radix. Sorry.
Reaper fader let it in same value always, do your inserts and last one Sound radix. After the sound radix the volume adjuster, This way you dont change any relation between daw fader, plugins in chain. Only after the process.
Makes sense ?

[Tower Studio]

Oh yes please!!! Pre/Post-fader FX Inserts would be bloody awesome!!! That and Sends that could be placed anywhere in the Track Insert chain (Pre/Post Fader, Pre/Post/in-between FXs). Would be a dream!

[Ideosound]

Originally Posted by pepe44

i meant after the sound radix. Sorry.
Reaper fader let it in same value always, do your inserts and last one Sound radix. After the sound radix the volume adjuster, This way you dont change any relation between daw fader, plugins in chain. Only after the process.
Makes sense ?

That is a workaround I guess however I use a faderport to control my fader(s) so it basically means I'd have to either use the mouse or draw in automation, none of which are ideal. However, I appreciate you helping with suggestions. We defo need this as native.

[pepe44]

Originally Posted by Ideosound

That is a workaround I guess however I use a faderport to control my fader(s) so it basically means I'd have to either use the mouse or draw in automation, none of which are ideal. However, I appreciate you helping with suggestions. We defo need this as native.

Why not assignt the faderport fader to the volume adjuster. there is a way to assign a midi cc in reaper to last touched parameter so that would be easy enough. Not the best choice but since its a workaround that is the closest thing to get it done. I guess.

[Ideosound]

Originally Posted by pepe44

Why not assignt the faderport fader to the volume adjuster. there is a way to assign a midi cc in reaper to last touched parameter so that would be easy enough. Not the best choice but since its a workaround that is the closest thing to get it done. I guess.

I was trying to attempt something like that where I change the default value of the faderport's fader (currently seems to spit out MIDI Chan 1 CC 32) but I can't figure out where to change this. The faderport XT driver has files like reaper_csurf_fpxt.ini but can't see anything in there. Or there is the reaper_csurf_fpxt.dylib but I think you can only edit that in xcode. I also tried looking at the latest Realearn plugin, whilst it seems great can't get it to see the volume pre FX automation/value or the trim one either.

Also posted on the Faderport XT thread to see if anyone knows there....

[Schöpke]

Just realized I can't use MMultiAnalyzer (Melda) to properly level several vocal tracks' loudnesses against each other unless I group every track into a separate buss and insert the Analyzer there, thus adding a second gazillion tracks.

If for no other purpose, Post-Fader inserts would be so awesome!

[pepe44]

Originally Posted by Schöpke

Just realized I can't use MMultiAnalyzer (Melda) to properly level several vocal tracks' loudnesses against each other unless I group every track into a separate buss and insert the Analyzer there, thus adding a second gazillion tracks.

If for no other purpose, Post-Fader inserts would be so awesome!

I Have it setup in track template. Worth a try
Then you just need to make the sends.

[ashcat_lt]

Why would you need a gazillion? It only takes one.

[kindafishy]

Yet another vote for this feature. I find it hard to believe that it hasn't been implemented yet. C'mooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhnnnnnnnn Justin!!!!!

[ktm]

plus 1

[Kr3eM]

plus plus 1 (and Sends that could be placed anywhere in the Track Insert chain)

[kyuseok]

Originally Posted by Kr3eM

plus plus 1 (and Sends that could be placed anywhere in the Track Insert chain)

+1 on this!

[mschnell]

These "bump"s seem rather boring to me, while a more advanced and Reaper-like feature (request) (i.e. placing the fader in an arbitrary position within the effect chain) already has been discussed.
-Michael

[juan_r]

Well, the "sends anywhere" angle seems new - although admittedly somewhat unrelated.

[Ideosound]

Originally Posted by mschnell

These "bump"s seem rather boring to me, while a more advanced and Reaper-like feature (request) (i.e. placing the fader in an arbitrary position within the effect chain) already has been discussed.
-Michael

Isn't the point to highlight that more users want the feature? Reaper at its core is about mixing audio so I'd say this was quite a big improvement if the devs took this up to develop. How else do we get them to listen?

[The-Zeronaut]

Was really interested on sound radix PI but apparently the only 2 workarounds in reaper would be:

1º Using the "channel gain" knob inside the plugin as the final volume fader for the track

2º create a folder-parent track for EVERY SINGLE track with PI on it (most of them) using it as the "real" volume fader and hiding it from TCP or MCP with the track manager

Am I forgetting any other workarounds?

[DeBased]

+1 to fader in the fx list.

However to make this less fiddly GUI-wise, make the fader a fixed entry (different colour) that can't be dragged. new fx are automatically are added above it as usual. then they can only be moved below the fader via right-click menu.

this way nothing can be dragged pre/post accidentally, and it covers the 99% pre-fader plugin case exactly as before.

[Ghashy]

Using post-fader FX inserts can improve workaround significantly! Am looking forward to it)

[AtmanActive]

We need post-fader FX chain per track.
That's the most important way forward for DAWs right now, in my humble opinion.
That would open a whole new world of possibilities, without a doubt.
Yes, it is true, we can now simulate it in Reaper with folder tracks and what not, but, it is cumbersome and time-consuming and will always be a hack.
Time for Reaper to lead the way and expand it's vision of FX chains.

input FX chain + pre-fader FX chain + post-fader FX chain + monitoring FX chain = A-W-E-S-O-M-E

[Ideosound]

Just an update regarding Soundradix PI, I managed to return it, their customer support is great and they understood it didn't work for my workflow. Obviously, post-fader sends and plugin routing would still be an improvement to Reaper.

Even then I work to video and the latency it was obviously adding to the audio was messing up the video sync so it would never work well enough for my application. If you were using it on a final mix with no video mind then the latency shouldn't matter.

[juan_r]

Originally Posted by Ideosound

Even then I work to video and the latency it was obviously adding to the audio was messing up the video sync so it would never work well enough for my application. If you were using it on a final mix with no video mind then the latency shouldn't matter.

I don't want to derail this thread, but - aren't video tracks latency compensated too?

[Ideosound]

Originally Posted by juan_r

I don't want to derail this thread, but - aren't video tracks latency compensated too?

Hmmm that's a good point and one I didn't think of. When I tested PI in a project, aside from it being a nightmare to use because we don't yet have post fader effects or easy routing; I did notice sync was out on video. I just thought it was another can of worms that just wasn't worth exploring... maybe there are optimum settings that you need but it's too much hassle at present.

[Klangfarben]

Originally Posted by DeBased

+1 to fader in the fx list.

However to make this less fiddly GUI-wise, make the fader a fixed entry (different colour) that can't be dragged. new fx are automatically are added above it as usual. then they can only be moved below the fader via right-click menu.

this way nothing can be dragged pre/post accidentally, and it covers the 99% pre-fader plugin case exactly as before.

I like this suggestion.