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Old 04-15-2013, 06:53 PM   #1
DjMilktoast
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Default What is the BEST VST mastering bundle ?

Help! I have collected too many VST and need to thin them out.
I thought the community could provide me with some of their favorites to guide me in this task.

Thanks Ahead of Time :-)
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:40 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by DjMilktoast View Post
Help! I have collected too many VST and need to thin them out.
I thought the community could provide me with some of their favorites to guide me in this task.

Thanks Ahead of Time :-)
iZotope Ozone is certainly the most popular and most recommended option in the forums. I have a friend who uses it and likes it although he says it is pretty "deep", which is probably a good thing.

I'm a huge fan of FabFilter plugins personally (for many reasons) so I'd probably buy their Pro-L limiter to use with the the Pro-C compressor and Pro-Q equalizer that I already own. These three plugins would be a very platform for mastering, adding other plugins as needed.
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:38 PM   #3
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Ozone 5 - Best all in one IMO

Best Limiter - FabFilter Pro L (Ozone's limiter is a very close 2nd though)

Favorite Buss Comp - UAD SSL comp
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:26 PM   #4
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I use Ozone for a couple years now. Have invested a lot of time in getting really into it. And it's proving worth my while. So: Ozone, definitely. I skip the EQ, though and put Pro-Q in front of Ozone in the chain.

To illustrate the power of Ozone: yesterday, while doing a mastering job, I found that by gating the side part of the +10khz portion of the sound a sleazy hiss could be avoided. I don't think Pro-L will hunt that one down?
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Old 04-16-2013, 04:23 AM   #5
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+1 for Ozone...
Although people who ask "what's the best tool" usually doesn't need a better tool, but rather learn the current tool he/she has.
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:28 AM   #6
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+1 for Ozone...
Although people who ask "what's the best tool" usually doesn't need a better tool, but rather learn the current tool he/she has.
wisdom.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:06 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Rachmaninoff View Post
Although people who ask "what's the best tool" usually doesn't need a better tool, but rather learn the current tool he/she has.
+1 to that
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:21 AM   #8
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"Mastering is a process, not a plugin."

Learn the process first.
Get a copy of Bob Katz' "Mastering: The Art and Science"

It's a college course on how to do it.
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:08 AM   #9
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Default Thank you.

Hello all,
Thank you for your advice.Yes I am very new to mastering(I KNOW NOTHING).
I have purchased some books on the matter and have quite a few video tutorials.
So basically its back to school.I posted this question to pick the brains of you form members who have the know how inside and out.I have A LOT of plugins,quite a lot because I started collecting them back in the 90's.
I picked up making music with a PC in 95 with Making Waves.It had DX and DXi plugs.When Steinberg released VST technology the next version of MW was fully VST and VSTi capable, so began my obsessive collecting.

I'm now using Reaper to make songs in pure VSTi mode. No samples and no external input.100% in the box.A challenge I'm looking forward to.

SO thank you all for you words of wisdom ,
Jon "milky" Marshall
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Old 04-20-2013, 04:49 PM   #10
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We make some stuff you may have heard of on forums. The T-Racks Custom Shop, we just released some new processors for it too.
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Old 04-21-2013, 02:03 AM   #11
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...we just released some new processors for it too.
And the prices are ridiculous! 120 credits for a plugin is freakin' crazy.

Is IK getting stupid or what?
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:19 AM   #12
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And the prices are ridiculous! 120 credits for a plugin is freakin' crazy.

Is IK getting stupid or what?
Perfectly reasonable pricing, IMO. Have you compared the pricing, features and quality of other manufacturer's offerings (Waves, Sonnox, UAD, etc.)?

Of course, it is up to each of us to decide what constitutes good value, and that can only be done after demoing the product and judging if it contributes to your workflow, sound quality and aesthetics.

If you have done that and don't feel it has 120 credits worth ($60 to $120, depending on what number of credits you purchase at one time) of value to you, then it's OK to state that. But to state that a product price is ridiculous without first doing any evaluation is ...... ridiculous.
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:22 AM   #13
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And the prices are ridiculous! 120 credits for a plugin is freakin' crazy.

Is IK getting stupid or what?
You are living under a rock. Please come back to the real world.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:18 AM   #14
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You guys assume a lot.


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Old 04-21-2013, 10:36 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
Perfectly reasonable pricing, IMO. Have you compared the pricing, features and quality of other manufacturer's offerings (Waves, Sonnox, UAD, etc.)?

Of course, it is up to each of us to decide what constitutes good value, and that can only be done after demoing the product and judging if it contributes to your workflow, sound quality and aesthetics.

If you have done that and don't feel it has 120 credits worth ($60 to $120, depending on what number of credits you purchase at one time) of value to you, then it's OK to state that. But to state that a product price is ridiculous without first doing any evaluation is ...... ridiculous.
Thank you, depending how many credits you buy or if you use Jam Points to purchase them you could be getting these for 30-60 credits. Plus our plug ins are FAR more affordable compared to many of our competitors and we have out own opinions on how ours stack up sound wise, but we'll let you guys be the judge of that.
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:41 PM   #16
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New video going over the new Echoflex Tape Echo in the Custom Shop!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzdajcCAAds
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:54 PM   #17
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Your Ears...

And I love the sales pitch ever chance ya get obik, sometimes it points out something I have not seen yet!
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:01 PM   #18
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Not quite every chance, we have far more releases than I post here, especially for iOS. But thanks, I'll take that as a compliment!
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:28 PM   #19
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New video covering the new Bus Compressor!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZgEf4iznMo
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:04 AM   #20
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Have you guys checked out the Toneboosters Flx? Crazey!! and only 15 euri/
http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-flx/
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:27 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimOBrien View Post
"Mastering is a process, not a plugin."
.
Agreed.. I actually done very nice mastering sessions with standard REAPER plugs and JS. (as a challenge... u know)

U can be sucked for the market or study hard.
Like that blu n red pill choice.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:45 PM   #22
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How is there no book called _Mastering the Art of Mastering_?!
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earlabs View Post
Have you guys checked out the Toneboosters Flx? Crazey!! and only 15 euri/
http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-flx/
Yeah, the new version is OVER THE TOP CRAZEY!! so many filter types,i love it.

I,m not a mastering engineer by any means, but i do my own pseudo mastering out of necessity.
I have the IK T-Racks Deluxe but i don't use it as a mastering tool i do use the plugins when mixing and there very usefull.
I've found i get better results treating each track with whatever pluguns are going to get me where i want to go with it, and they vary from song to song.
For me it a case of how can i make this song sound better or, can i make this song sound better ? and its a "try this, that and see" approach from there.
Needless to say my results vary greatly.
When i do work for people who are going to sell there product through conventional methods, shops, gigs, distribution companies etc and are going to get radio airplay i always recommend pro mastering, imho theres no other way to go.


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Old 12-26-2013, 12:32 PM   #24
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I feel like I'm being controversial here (Risky first post) but I don't think Ozone is the best plugin at all. However, that COULD be due to how I use it or the style of music I am using it for.

I would totally say the best plugins all depend on the style of music.

Ozone is very powerful, accurate and easy to use with a good selection of presets and a great GUI. I've found that no matter how hard I try, the results I get from it sound very digital. It's amazing for doing first aid on poor quality stems, but in my opinion it takes away character and depth, all while at risk of either sounding flat or harsh.

I tend to prefer going for analogue modelled plugins like the UA 2A etc as the character of the different plugins actually help different instruments achieve different things, like a bass sitting in the mix perfectly with drums etc.

For mastering obviously the needs are different but I think it's still relevent. It really depends on the sound you are after. I'm sure Ozone would be great for Electronic and Urban sounds due to the type of colouration it provides, but I don't think it sounds natural enough to pass off for dynamic genres. Also, the exciter distorts very easily around the mid range, doesn't have much punch in the low end and the top end is very harsh, which means I'm going to want to compress the track afterwards to make it silky smooth again! The maximiser distorts too much even under soft limiting. The reverb is a nice touch and has a great touch on a mix but I don't usually find a use for it! I think that there are many individual plugins with much more customization and quality out there, and selection should vary depending on producer.I refuse to believe there is a 'one plugin meets all needs'.

The VintageWarmer by PSP is one of my personal favourites. It takes a lot for it to destroy a mix and gives you a LOT of headroom to work around. It's handy to use as a compressor, at light compression there is barely any colouration but it still softens the transients nicely. Finish that off with something like an L2 limiter and maybe use the SSL Compressor and SSL EQ plugins from Waves and you will have yourself a tonally rich and warm track which retains it's clarity. (Perfect for hearing at loud volumes if you want to keep your ears too!)

Edit:

I just viewed a topic on Gearslutz and came across this video tutorial for the Fabfilter Pro-L Limiter. I've not used it myself, but the video impresses me much! Maybe somebody can shed light on it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7PYjalQ2vQ

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Old 07-31-2014, 04:05 AM   #25
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Plugins that I use on a regular basis are the Waves NLS and REDD for mixing down. But for mastering I developed my own plugins so I could have exactly the features I required. You can find these at www.minimalsystem.com if you are interested.

I am a big fan of Fabfilter plugins too, especially their EQ.
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Old 07-31-2014, 04:27 AM   #26
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1. ReaEq
2. ReaComp
3. TDR Feedback Compressor
4. LoudMax

For me it´s important to have plugins for final mix
that do not color the sound and they have to be CPU-friendly

The best plugin combination to work with in Reaper for me,
and it´s all free !!!

If these plugins do not work for you, well, then maybe you do not work
properly ;-)

I use these plugins for final mix, in order to master I´d add a multiband-compressor and frequency analyzing tool (there are free ones, too); but in most cases people talk about mastering, but actually they mean mixing !

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Old 07-31-2014, 06:09 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giano View Post
1. ReaEq
2. ReaComp
3. TDR Feedback Compressor
4. LoudMax

For me it´s important to have plugins for final mix
that do not color the sound and they have to be CPU-friendly

The best plugin combination to work with in Reaper for me,
and it´s all free !!!

If these plugins do not work for you, well, then maybe you do not work
properly ;-)

I use these plugins for final mix, in order to master I´d add a multiband-compressor and frequency analyzing tool (there are free ones, too); but in most cases people talk about mastering, but actually they mean mixing !
+1

no color, no mojo, no voodoo or character or any of that analogish bs. the music should be mastered. if it has no character ... so be it. to put in character afterwards is like trying to get Frankensteins Monster into a nice intelligent guy. wont work. those who need to add character at the mastering stage need it, means: the music sucks without that. thats my 2 cent.

the above mentioned plugins are exactly what I would recommend, maybe some slight, very slight enhancer/exciter. and I would leave out the TDR compressor, because the REAcomp sounds awesome in feedback modus. means: he doesnt sound at all, he compresses in the transparentest way I have ever heard a compressor compress. +1 for him doing exactley what he is supposed to do. and I would - subjectively - swap LoudMax for the W1Limiter. but thats just me.

forget about all the other bs and at first forget about analog and coloring and all the bs. do your job and dont screw with the character of the already recorded music.
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Old 07-31-2014, 06:48 AM   #28
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The best way to master is not to pummel it to death as your final stage.

I'm wondering how long it will take for people to realise it's pointless bludgeoning a track into clipping and distortion when the playback medium will turn it back down again...


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Old 07-31-2014, 08:19 AM   #29
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+1

... the REAcomp sounds awesome in feedback modus. means: he doesnt sound at all, he compresses in the transparentest way I have ever heard a compressor compress. +1 for him doing exactley what he is supposed to do...
Yep and I agree with you, REAComp is the by far best compressor I know, I also know some ProTools Compressors or Waves or NI stuff etc., but as whiteaxxxe already said, REAComp does exactly what it´s supposed to do !
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Old 07-31-2014, 08:24 AM   #30
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All the ReaPlugs, plus a decent limiter (I haven't used the JS limiter, but I've been happy with Limiter No6 and LoudMax).

Reaper has everything you need. As stated above, use your ears.
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Old 07-31-2014, 08:40 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimOBrien View Post
"Mastering is a process, not a plugin."

Learn the process first.
Get a copy of Bob Katz' "Mastering: The Art and Science"

It's a college course on how to do it.
This right here.

What specific task (in your current mastering job) do you need help with or want a better tool for? What is the specific problem with the current tool you are trying to use?
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Old 07-31-2014, 09:12 AM   #32
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I couldn't agree more.

And that process isn't necessarily reduction of dynamic range and truncation of transients. Sometimes it's a little level or eq tweak to get a track sitting evenly with its album brethren. Occasionally it's the knowledge to accept that nothing needs changing.

I'll also second the recommendation of Bob's book, although read it with the knowledge that loudness metering and normalisation supercedes some of the K-system advice (not to take anything away from the remaining 99% -I know Bob is waiting to see what direction some things take, what settles, what sticks and what is adopted before publishing a third edition -meanwhile digest his "Mastering for i-Tunes" book).



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Old 07-31-2014, 09:36 AM   #33
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Ozone 5 is a very, very fine piece of software. but ... there are way too many knobs. I mean that serious. you get used to the sound you produce with it after some hours of fiddling around with all the possibilities. next day you come back, star your masterpiece to listen again ... and you dont want to know what you think then. so you gop back and fiddle another 4-5 hours with all the parameters and you think you nailed it. no, you did not. Ozone 5 nailed it into your brain not the other way round. you have lost another day and you are not one step further and it sounds in best case "weird somehow".

the next day ... and so on and on. it will have no end. optimizing and this sound is too interesting and what if I switch this for that ... endless. and no result.

Ozone 5 is not for using all the knobs. the wisdom lies in to use only 2 or 3 knobs. but which knobs?

if you master, you have to ask yourself one question: what is it, exactly, what I want to achieve with the mastering? and not such answers as "to have it the professional sheen" and such. exactly what? more compressed? in what way compressed? a tiny bit? with much release (sounds sweeter), with less release (sounds maybe normal), with nearly no release (sounds punchy)? so you have one parameter (release of the comp) that gives you at least 3 completely different goals. so what? before using a master-comp you have to answer this questions for all of your songs you are going to master.

otherwise you end up having one song sweet, the next punchy (this is the result if you ask on GearSlutz: waht the song needs ... bullshit. its what the album needs. you want the album to sound coherent.) and the 3rd sounds normal. can you live with that? I want an album to sound so, that I can live with the sound for the next 30 years.

so here is what I do: I set up a mastering chain: slight compressor, slight EQ (with a rolloff, depends where and how much) in the treble and a limiter. I then mix against this chain. the bass instrument has in all songs the exact same rms-value and the rest is mixed according to that bass.

you know what? the album sounds consistent, dynamically, without any damage done my "coloring" or such bs in the mastering process, because there is no mastering.

if aftwerwards I listen to the album and I think, oh, maybe that song should have a louder tambourine and that song could be in whole come across 0.5 db softwer, I go back to the mix and adjust some things so, that they dont upset me when listening to the WHOLE album.

no mastering is perfect mastering. you can adress problems at the source. no fiddling with tools where you cant adress the source of the (assumed) problem. no bs with surgical eqs, coloring comps, analog summing and what the f*** is out there and tried to be sold to you claiming whatever bs the marketing idiots want to catch you with.

its the music thats count. and a good mix needs no mastering. I dont care what the so called "pros" do tell. nowadays we can nail it in the mix.

ah, and I am not a fan of old-fashioned sounding albums. if there is a hihat, I want to hear it and not burried in any of that analogish-sounding dullness and tape-saturation. I am so glad that we dont need no more tape or vinyl or wax-cylinders anymore. they didnt sound good. they sounded awful, disgusting.

so ... thats me. :-)))) all analog gear to the trash on monday, ok? :-)))
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Old 07-31-2014, 09:39 AM   #34
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one more thing: if your music doesnt sound at least good enough after proper mixing ... forget it. trash it and start tracking again. mastering will never ever mend that.
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Old 07-31-2014, 10:44 AM   #35
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Quote:
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...
its the music thats count. and a good mix needs no mastering. I dont care what the so called "pros" do tell. nowadays we can nail it in the mix.

ah, and I am not a fan of old-fashioned sounding albums. if there is a hihat, I want to hear it and not burried in any of that analogish-sounding dullness and tape-saturation. I am so glad that we dont need no more tape or vinyl or wax-cylinders anymore. they didnt sound good. they sounded awful, disgusting.

so ... thats me. :-)))) all analog gear to the trash on monday, ok? :-)))
in 60´s, 70´s and 80´s recordings were made with a quality you will never achieve with digital equipment only - for sure ! Sometimes I listen to digitally remastered stuff, but very often the sound has been killed after digital treatment, especially when I compare vinyl to a cd.
But you are right, today "digital only" is enough for a generation that listens to Music on a Laptop or mp3 file - and maybe for electronic Music in general. I once had the opportunity to watch what Lexicon Hardware Equipment is able to do to a single Instrument track or a whole mix - unbelievable!!! and hardware sometimes is worth the price! If software was as good as hardware it would make no sense to produce hardware any more !
I suppose your last sentence was a joke ?! ;-)
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Old 07-31-2014, 12:16 PM   #36
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no. my last sentence was as serious as global warming.

what I recognise in the last around4 -6 or 7 years is, that a huge amount of companies is manufacturing a huge amount of hardware and the marketing is getting so ridiculous that its not funny anymore. if you have a look at the market for hardware, there is amongst 1 million items not one thing, that is not "real vintage analog" and/or the "real deal, revolutionary, the best" and so on and on.

how come, that so many new hardware mocking up old hardware, is a gamechanger? its marketing. and its expectation bias. if you look at your hardware and think of the money you spent for it, you have two choices: hopefully the next customer will get blinded by this sight and puts you all his money on the table, or you have to think: all that money ... this must sound superior.

fact is, a hardware Lexicon (for example) is a hardware metal box around a chip, that runs the same algorithm as the software. its the software in a package! and the soft-Lexicons sound exactly as the hard-Lexicons. there is no difference! its imagination! snakeoil. believe me.

and analog hardware can never ever compare to software. that is physics, relly simple physics. and the pseudo-argument that 0s and 1s cant sound as good as "real analog" is simply bullshit, told by the ones who sell the stuff (Gibson sells directed cables for alternating current coming out of a guitar ... there you have your idiot bullshuit-talkers) because they know, that the buiyer knows even less than their marketing- and sales-management, or the suff is told by people which have no clue. sorry, if I offend someone, but without technical knowledge in detail one should shut up and not try to compare analog to digital. its always the clueless people that defend analog in a religious way. must be religious, because scientific argumentation doesnt work with the clueless.

what I said sounds harsh and is ment harsh. the same goes for vinyl (and tape ...).

vinyl is ridiculous inferior to digital. and that in digital remasterings are more his than on the original release ... come on. if in the remastering is a hihat, that no vinyl-owner was aware of, that means that vinyl is inferior, its an evidence. what do you think where the hihat came from? played by accident? no. was played and recorded intentionally, but wasnt heard on the vinyl, becauswe vinyl is inferior.

that some people have an emotional connection to "the good old day", when music was crackling and annoying hiss was everywhere and that "smoke on the water" has to crackle and has to be without hihat and that the moog "here comes the sun" was always assumed on the vinyl to be a weird noise in the studio captured by accident is ok, as long as they dont make a religious thing out of it.

analog is inferior to digital. stating anything else is a lie, a hype, a religion, pure cluelessness, nostalgy, expectation bias while looking at the bank account or wishful thinking.

period.

trash the analog bullshit.
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Old 07-31-2014, 01:04 PM   #37
citizenkeith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe View Post
analog is inferior to digital. stating anything else is a lie, a hype, a religion, pure cluelessness, nostalgy, expectation bias while looking at the bank account or wishful thinking.

period.

trash the analog bullshit.
On Tuesday, I tracked a session on a Tascam ATR-80 2" 24-track machine.

I had vintage Neumann U67 tube mics on the drums, a vintage RCA ribbon and a Neumann KM-54 on guitars. Many of them were running through tube amps, and I used 1176 compressors.

I guarantee you, this recording sounds better (to me) than if I had plugged all that stuff into an A/D converter and tracked to a DAW. No analog bullshit here. Just damn good music, captured with a tonality that is very different from what you can capture on a computer. Not better, just different.

I'm sick of the plugin companies' "analog" marketing too, and I don't think the bulk of these products are very good at analog replication. But there's a reason why people want vintage emulation.

Last edited by citizenkeith; 07-31-2014 at 01:26 PM. Reason: clarification
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Old 07-31-2014, 08:19 PM   #38
michaelwho
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Default Mastering, what the hell is that?

Just because digital is technically superior to Analogue does not mean it sounds superior. Maybe the inferior analogue processing introduces something that sounds better. Maybe it doesn't capture the original recorded element
as accurately as digital...so what? That may or may not sound better.

I just saw a guy sing Angie technically 100X better than Jagger ever could but Jagger's vocal sounds so much better.

Give me a sexy woman over a technically more beautiful woman any day.
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Old 08-01-2014, 12:12 AM   #39
Giano
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Default vinyl inferior ? different !

Yes I see, the expression "better" is not good - it´s different, but also better concerning the music itself (but that would be a different topic!) back in the day because a lot of musicians were able to play an instrument a lot better, IMHO and bands played better together, bands were kinda families, not just aiming to make short term money like in the last 20 years.

But today is today, and the digital world has many many advantages.

Nevertheless I wanted to check if everything is okay with my ears, me and two friends listened to some tracks of Slys "Fresh" LP (1973), first on CD, then on vinyl, well, vinyl sounds a hundred times better, that kind of music was not produced to be listened to on a cd ! and it´s not about crackles or hiss, vinyl sounds more lively, much more dynamics and the sound and the music is great with maybe the best drums I have ever heard (and I like the hihats!) played by Andy Newmark.

I think it also depends on your musical likes, I like a lot of genres from classical, Jazz to house and maybe especially electronic music sounds better on CD, but I also know some DJs and they do prefer vinyl, as well ?!

But again we live in a digital world and have to make the best with it, but analog won´t die too quickly, u know, I still play a real guitar and plug it to my Marshall tube amp and play my classical guitar and I will not use a sampled Guitar of a VSTi plugin - a guitar played with a keyboard sounds ridiculous...

So please do not throw away your guitars and do not go digital only
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Old 08-01-2014, 04:15 AM   #40
whiteaxxxe
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never ever will a digital guitar sound better than an analog real guitar. :-))))

I was speaking about production. and yes, that is the correct statement: something sounds different than than the other thing.

whereas here lies the problem regarding terminology: digital is technically superior, because its close to total transparency. means, digital gives the ability to have the source sound the same as the recorded media. (if thats a good thing is another discussion. its about the technical ability.)

so if you dont want that digital accuracy, that doesnt mean that analog is better. it sounds different. and you are able to let a digital tracking and recording sound like analog, if you like the analog sound. try it vice versa. you will fail.

for the example with the hihat (was about a remastering of a Jethro Tull album) I have clearly to state, that I dont thing that the drummer of JT while resording played the hihat to have it not on the album. so transparency (technical term, not soundwise term) gets lost, if you record analog and print it to tape and then to vinyl. in the remastering - done from tape - the hihat was there. so it was on the master tape. why wasnt it on vinyl? because vinyl is superior?

thats an example. I think, if someone wants the sound of vinyl he can get his digital copy of it and his iZotope Vinyl - its free - and then listen to his analogized vinylised album.

but not for me. I dont want anything screw with what I have tracked. and if a medium strips elements down - unintentionally and not recoverable - then this medium is simply inferior. image buying a painting from Picasso, you put it on the wall at home, and its normal, that half of the colors are gone???? wtf ....

and it is a difference, a big difference, if you do something for artistically or simply sunbjective reasons. but if you like something better you cant say that IT IS BETTER. if you state something is better, then you have to come down to the technical and scientific facts. and that fact is: analog is way inferior to digital.

(I thought of Slipknot at this moment, masked, on stage, with digital guitars ... oh, yes, well, please not ... :-))))
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