Reaper is the Linux of the DAW world

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by maxdembo

Thats one thing I def read, that RME were great with driver support and not having any of this shit happen to their FW devices.

You kind of pay for those in advance.

The drivers for my audio device are in the kernel of the OS and the manufacturer is off the hook.

[maxdembo]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

You kind of pay for those in advance.

The drivers for my audio device are in the kernel of the OS and the manufacturer is off the hook.

Yeah, I made sure I went class compliant 'no driver needed' this time, with the RPi and Linux in mind

Getting off this M$ train after about 20 years of not having a soundcard that works with no fannying about in Linux

EDIT: SBlive was when Linux still did my head in. EMU0404 IIRC just straight up didnt work without hassle, if at all. And FW and Linux seemed like a ballache too, plus I got locked into Win and the software. Then Reaper and the RPi4 became a proposition, it all just works without any hassle and now here we are

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by maxdembo

Yeah, I made sure I went class compliant 'no driver needed' this time, with the RPi and Linux in mind

Getting off this M$ train after about 20 years of not having a soundcard that works with no fannying about in Linux

When I switched to Linux three years ago, I had two M-Audio Delta 2496 cards and they worked and performed identical to Windows without me needing to install any drivers.

When I upgraded my audio device, I looked for and found numerous success stories before buying the UMC1820 I wanted. The switch took all of five minutes to yank two PCI cards, and cable up power and USB to the new device. Selected the new device in REAPER and everything worked fine with no drivers needing to be installed or anything.

[maxdembo]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

When I switched to Linux three years ago, I had two M-Audio Delta 2496 cards and they worked and performed identical to Windows without me needing to install any drivers.

When I upgraded my audio device, I looked for and found numerous success stories before buying the UMC1820 I wanted. The switch took all of five minutes to yank two PCI cards, and cable up power and USB. Selected the new device in REAPER and everything worked fine with no new driver needing to be installed or anything.

The moment I installed the RPi and plugged in a shitty old Behringer USB mixer and it worked instantly, then the Zoom h5, then the Norns Shield, thats when I realised I had more options with upgrading the interface and leaving FW behind.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by maxdembo

The moment I installed the RPi and plugged in a shitty old Behringer USB mixer and it worked instantly, then the Zoom h5, then the Norns Shield, thats when I realised I had more options with upgrading the interface and leaving FW behind.

I prefer the OS having the driver built into the kernel rather than being dependent on the manufacturer.

[domzy]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

I prefer the OS having the driver built into the kernel rather than being dependent on the manufacturer.

despite not having any problems with my DAWs (still on win 7 & XP!) i'm gonna give Linux a go soon, i think.
I've got lots of interfaces but they're all quite old - do you think i'll have much hassle with PCI or firewire? Any tips on what would work best?
i've got RME multiface & digiface (mk1), emu1212m, various Event Echos (Gina24, miaMIDI etc.) m-audio delta44, lightbridge & profire 410

[Quasar]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

"Firewire support is nonexistent in Microsoft since 1903 and won't come back."

Since 1903? This surprises me, as I was pretty sure that FW was supported at least up to the First World War.

More seriously, I had to let my old MR816x go because of the FW connection. I was not sure that I couldn't get a legacy drive to work, but I didn't want to hassle with trying.

[maxdembo]

Originally Posted by Quasar

Since 1903? This surprises me, as I was pretty sure that FW was supported at least up to the First World War

You misunderstood, he means 3 minutes past 7pm

[JamesPeters]

Originally Posted by domzy

despite not having any problems with my DAWs (still on win 7 & XP!) i'm gonna give Linux a go soon, i think.
I've got lots of interfaces but they're all quite old - do you think i'll have much hassle with PCI or firewire? Any tips on what would work best?
i've got RME multiface & digiface (mk1), emu1212m, various Event Echos (Gina24, miaMIDI etc.) m-audio delta44, lightbridge & profire 410

The 1212m: someone else tried to get it working and failed, so I doubt it. As for the rest: search for them in your favorite search engine along with the word "Linux" to see what results you get. You might find someone who got one working (or struggled to use it) in Linux on a forum including linuxmusicians.com, the Ardour forums, etc.

Anyway if you want an OS for a computer that will be on the Internet, Windows 7 and especially XP by this point really aren't a great idea.

Originally Posted by Glennbo

I prefer the OS having the driver built into the kernel rather than being dependent on the manufacturer.

Despite the fact that this relies on volunteers to maintain support, it seems to be a good way to go. Then main trick is: does the device have class-compliant mode. After that: has someone spent the time to test it with Linux and attempt to assimilate its uniqueness to the Borg include its specific parameters in some files in ALSA / the kernel. After that, it's probably smooth sailing.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Quasar

Since 1903? This surprises me, as I was pretty sure that FW was supported at least up to the First World War.

More seriously, I had to let my old MR816x go because of the FW connection. I was not sure that I couldn't get a legacy drive to work, but I didn't want to hassle with trying.

Microsoft has a history of ending things abruptly.

Remember Windows Media Center? It was the only software on the planet authorized by Cable Labs who is the authority on who can de-scramble cable television. So I bought a $250 three tuner CableCard tuner and had the coolest whole house premium cable DVR . . . For a while.

Microsoft omitted it in Windows 8 and made it an extra $100 add on (to help kill it), and by Windows 10 it was completely gone. Now I have an expensive piece of hardware in the closet.

[Quasar]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

Microsoft has a history of ending things abruptly.

Remember Windows Media Center? It was the only software on the planet authorized by Cable Labs who is the authority on who can de-scramble cable television. So I bought a $250 three tuner CableCard tuner and had the coolest whole house premium cable DVR . . . For a while.

Microsoft omitted it in Windows 8 and made it an extra $100 add on (to help kill it), and by Windows 10 it was completely gone. Now I have an expensive piece of hardware in the closet.

Sux. I'm trying to introduce a new phrase into common English usage: predatory obsolescence.

When it comes to dropping HW support, Apple seems worse than MS, though neither tech giant is close to blameless.

[Jae.Thomas]

Apple looks like hell for any kind of enduring support

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Quasar

Sux. I'm trying to introduce a new phrase into common English usage: predatory obsolescence.

When it comes to dropping HW support, Apple seems worse than MS, though neither tech giant is close to blameless.

When I built my current Ryzen 3700X DAW, I had two SSDs. One with Windows 7 and one with Xubuntu. Those were previously in an Intel i5 machine.

When I put the SSDs into the new Ryzen, the first time I tried booting up Windows 7, to my surprise it booted perfectly and everything was working. Video was displaying properly, mouse and keyboard were working fine, Etc., but then Windows "Found New Hardware" and the machine was unusable after the reboot.

This showed me that they *could* have used the drivers that were in place, but instead nuked them all and then couldn't find any drivers that would work on that hardware . . . Except I had just seen it work just fine, only moments before.

I might have been able to force some drivers with manual installing, but I decided to nuke Windows 7 and just run pure Linux. Since then I've cut up with scissors and thrown away at least 20 copies of Windows, only keeping a Windows 95 and NT4 CD for nostalgia.

[maxdembo]

Originally Posted by Quasar

Sux. I'm trying to introduce a new phrase into common English usage: predatory obsolescence.

When it comes to dropping HW support, Apple seems worse than MS, though neither tech giant is close to blameless.

I'd stick the word unconscionable in there too.

[domzy]

Originally Posted by JamesPeters

The 1212m: someone else tried to get it working and failed, so I doubt it. As for the rest: search for them in your favorite search engine along with the word "Linux" to see what results you get. You might find someone who got one working (or struggled to use it) in Linux on a forum including linuxmusicians.com, the Ardour forums, etc.

Anyway if you want an OS for a computer that will be on the Internet, Windows 7 and especially XP by this point really aren't a great idea.



Despite the fact that this relies on volunteers to maintain support, it seems to be a good way to go. Then main trick is: does the device have class-compliant mode. After that: has someone spent the time to test it with Linux and attempt to assimilate its uniqueness to the Borg include its specific parameters in some files in ALSA / the kernel. After that, it's probably smooth sailing.

cheers for the heads up, i'm quite jealous of all the cool kids in the linux gang with their street cred & their maverick attitudes, so i'll check things out & give it a whirl soon, hopefully.
i'm really not a computer geek, i've been using computers since atari days, but more or less exclusively for music. I'm a bit of a hoarder & i hate the idea of having to buy new hardware when the existing stuff still works fine for making noises.

[maxdembo]

Originally Posted by domzy

cheers for the heads up, i'm quite jealous of all the cool kids in the linux gang with their street cred & their maverick attitudes, so i'll check things out & give it a whirl soon, hopefully.
i'm really not a computer geek, i've been using computers since atari days, but more or less exclusively for music. I'm a bit of a hoarder & i hate the idea of having to buy new hardware when the existing stuff still works fine for making noises.

Just in case you arent aware, Linux can be run from a USB thumb drive instead of having to wipe your C drive, or go thru having to set up a dual boot hassle. Makes trying it a much easier proposition.

[domzy]

Originally Posted by maxdembo

Just in case you arent aware, Linux can be run from a USB thumb drive instead of having to wipe your C drive, or go thru having to set up a dual boot hassle. Makes trying it a much easier proposition.

yeah, i know, i'm a bit confused by all the different flavours (is that what they're called?) - i know there's probably threads about it where i can learn more.
I'm really lazy & keep coming up with reasons not to do it i suppose.

i think i did actually try a version on a thumb drive about 8yrs ago, but all the music stuff on there seemed shite so i never really explored it further

[maxdembo]

Originally Posted by domzy

yeah, i know, i'm a bit confused by all the different flavours (is that what they're called?) - i know there's probably threads about it where i can learn more.
I'm really lazy & keep coming up with reasons not to do it i suppose.

The linux section of the forum has been quite an eye opener for me, tho I havent made the full plunge myself yet either. All I did was buy an RPi and use its OS.

[domzy]

Originally Posted by maxdembo

The linux section of the forum has been quite an eye opener for me, tho I havent made the full plunge myself yet either. All I did was buy an RPi and use its OS.

yeah, i guess i'll start checking it out more - but i spend far to much time on this forum as it is, when i should be making music or growing vegetables or saving sick puppies - aargh!!!

[JamesPeters]

Originally Posted by domzy

cheers for the heads up, i'm quite jealous of all the cool kids in the linux gang with their street cred & their maverick attitudes,

"Street cred" for using Linux?

I just hate Windows. Well, some of what MS is doing. And I dislike Apple to a lesser extent. So Linux it is, for me.

[Rednroll]

I just wanted to provide an update since I realize many of you will be thrilled to hear that I'm back on the Reaper bandwagon.

I've now dived head first into the deep waters of fully utilizing the action commands, creating custom actions and toolbars as well as a complete set of my own icons, installing some SWS extensions and scripts, as well as creating/customizing my own theme. I'm currently in those dark/deep shark infested waters of writing WALTER code editing away on the RTconfig.txt file. Been reading the Reaper theming SDKs and doing some experimental coding while I'm at it. Will get further into the menu customizations so I no longer have to read a entire book every time I right click on an object but just haven't had enough time to reach that point yet.

Already fixed some things by creating some custom actions so I can have a proper functioning Seek REW/FF functionality. They told me it wasn't possible to put a track feeze icon on the TCP so I could click on it....but I showed them. I now have a clickeable Track Freeze which pops up my most often used render/freeze options.

Here's a sneak peak for now. I probably got about another year to go before I'm finished with all the customization but aside from some of the things I learned along the way about what Reaper can't do such as creating a tape style FF/REW transport buttons on the interface I'm making progress. I guess for those transport buttons I'll just have to adapt to grabbing the tape head at the top of the timeline instead.

Essentially, I've been pretty busy learning and making modifications on turning this Linux DAW into a much more user friendly and more pleasing to the eye Windows/Mac OS DAW.

I really fully understand what so many really enjoy about this DAW. If you've ever wanted to know what it feels like to part of a DAW development team, Reaper really fits that bill.

[fred garvin]

^^^ Damn, now -that's- ugly. But glad -you- like it! Welcome back.

[Softsynth]

Originally Posted by Jae.Thomas

Apple looks like hell for any kind of enduring support

"Enduring support"!
Apple has never heard such foul language!
What a disgustingly offensive anti-Apple concept!

Originally Posted by JamesPeters

"Street cred" for using Linux?

I just hate Windows. Well, some of what MS is doing. And I dislike Apple to a lesser extent. So Linux it is, for me.

Calling them the cool kids is attempting to subvert the stereotype methinks. I hope they succeed and make Linux properly mainstream. Thing is exclusivity is part of the Linux appeal.
Methinks (outside of this forum) many in the Linux community don't actually welcome mainstream success, and would jump ship to something more obscure. Some of the unwashed don't want the washed masses to bring in their viruses!

Originally Posted by fred garvin

^^^ Damn, now -that's- ugly. But glad -you- like it! Welcome back.

From the screenshot it just looks like the stock Commala theme, one of the best.

Still enjoying the standard 6 theme here.

[Rednroll]

Originally Posted by fred garvin

^^^ Damn, now -that's- ugly. But glad -you- like it! Welcome back.

Well that's what everyone keeps telling me is so great about Reaper. You can make it as pretty or Ugly as you want it.

[Rednroll]

Originally Posted by Softsynth

From the screenshot it just looks like the stock Commala theme, one of the best.

Still enjoying the standard 6 theme here.

Yes it's the stock Commala theme. At this point it just has a lot of under the hood tweaks going on. Things like the theme preference selections being much more organized with better descriptions and things the original Comalla seemed to overlook like If you select a purple fader then you probably want your pan control to match and be purple also. Then included a better light up indicator to let you know if you clipped your signals. If you have a darker theme then you probably don't want bright white menus popping up and blinding you every time you click on something while working in a darker room environment. My mods won't be so much about changing the look of the Commala theme, since I like the look but more along the lines of making the DAW more user friendly and having things layed out how many would expect instead of some programmers mess of here's a bunch of features all thrown into the same pile for you to sort through. It's more about the little things that we tend to overlook and take for granted when working in a DAW.

Since my background comes from having a preference of working with the user interface of Vegas Pro and Acid Pro, this will be the Comalla in Vegas on Acid theme.

[Lunar Ladder]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Getting off of the OS verbiage for a moment. That's precisely why I switched to RME years back, solid drivers and long-term driver support.

Same here. Running two RME HDSPe AIO based workstations at my place. That stuff just never, ever gave me any trouble, no matter whether booting into Windows or Linux, and the latencies & driver overhead are low, low, low, low, low, low, low, low.

Had a Flo Rida moment there, dang.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by Rednroll

I turning this Linux DAW into a much more user friendly ... DAW

In fact a "much more me-user friendly ... DAW".
But exactly this is the beauty of this software: the ability to be tweaked at taste. And of couse this additional functionality comes with the cost of some complexity.

-Michael

[Rednroll]

Originally Posted by mschnell

In fact a "much more me-user friendly ... DAW".
But exactly this is the beauty of this software: the ability to be tweaked at taste. And of couse this additional functionality comes with the cost of some complexity.

-Michael

There's obviously a lot of truth to that, I am working on making it a more Me friendly DAW but it's also coming from my background of being part of the Vegas Pro and Acid Pro forums where every time I have recommended Reaper as an alternative due to expressed user frustrations with those products, I hear the same response comments time and time again. "Reaper seems like a fine program, I already tried it and it's out of the box user interface is the ugliest DAW I've ever tried and it's menus to get to anything is a convoluted mess which makes it frustrating to use. To configure it how it should be, to be more user friendly I feel like I'm having to do a lot of the work that the developers should have done in the first place." When I suggest to just download and install a different theme, the additional feedback is "I tried that, it was like putting lip-stick on a pig because underneath that top layer theme it was still Reaper's convoluted ugly mess."

Not my comments, but I understand their perspective, Reaper is the Linux of the Daw world out of the box as I originally stated. It works great, it has most every feature most could ever want, it's stable and efficient, it "CAN" be re-configured to work more like you prefer but it's default user interface is not the easiest thing to use and many of the reconfiguration options will take some significant user effort to achieve.

So hopefully my efforts for myself in the end won't only be for "me" but also for other "potential" Reaper users who have a similar background, preferences and experience as me. I'm taking on those further development customization efforts so the folks who get overwhelmed and intimated by them won't have to. Learning a scripting language to customize a program tends to be outside of what most are willing to invest in effort.

[Lunar Ladder]

Originally Posted by Rednroll

So hopefully my efforts for myself in the end won't only be for "me" but also for other "potential" Reaper users who have a similar background, preferences and experience as me. I'm taking on those further development customization efforts so the folks who get overwhelmed and intimated by them won't have to.

I recommend setting up a neutral thread for this endeavor and dropping all the "it's the Linux of the DAW world" (with a biased and inexperienced stereotypical view of Linux to begin with) tone out of that one. Keep it to the point, focused and positive, and have that goal of yours genuinely as your top priority. Then you can present the actual project and its progress there, and focus 100% on that - and also respond to feature requests and suggestions and feedback on what to improve, from other users who really use your theme day to day, and are in your target user group, based on the Vegas/Acid background and preferences and whatnot. That way, you will also know first hand when you've added something that the users of your theme don't like, and you can react and improve it based on what really serves them better.

[Rednroll]

Originally Posted by Lunar Ladder

I recommend setting up a neutral thread for this endeavor and dropping all the "it's the Linux of the DAW world" (with a biased and inexperienced stereotypical view of Linux to begin with) tone out of that one. Keep it to the point, focused and positive, and have that goal of yours genuinely as your top priority. Then you can present the actual project and its progress there, and focus 100% on that - and also respond to feature requests and suggestions and feedback on what to improve, from other users who really use your theme day to day, and are in your target user group, based on the Vegas/Acid background and preferences and whatnot. That way, you will also know first hand when you've added something that the users of your theme don't like, and you can react and improve it based on what really serves them better.

That more neutral thread is currently in the works for the Theming section.

I've used Linux in the past on my PC machines, so my comment isn't coming from an inexperienced stereotypical perspective. I've installed and used many of "Ubuntu" themed user interface Linux OSes on my PCs booted from USB and CDroms. I have also used Linux command lines and created scripts for infotainment system developments which used the Linux OS where there was no Linux top layer user interface. Add in QNX and Android OS experience on that front as well. Are there more current Linux OS user friendly interface options which I haven't tried since my Ubuntu experience days? Most likely yes, but that also fits with my comments that Reaper is the Linux of DAWs. It's not a bad thing, it's only a bad thing if you have personally chosen to focus on the negative associated connotations.

[Lunar Ladder]

Originally Posted by Rednroll

That more neutral thread is currently in the works for the Theming section.

Very nice!

Originally Posted by Rednroll

I've used Linux in the past on my PC machines, so my comment isn't coming from an inexperienced stereotypical perspective.

It just sounded a lot like it, in your initial post

[Edit: I notice you have edited your post after I posted this. Sigh. Well, I'll just say, expressions like "'Ubuntu' themed user interface Linux OSes" only makes you look inexperienced, and it's dishonest to say "that also fits with my comments that Reaper is the Linux of DAWs. It's not a bad thing, it's only a bad thing if you have personally chosen to focus on the negative associated connotations" after first introducing the whole Linux thing yourself as a description on what you feel Reaper is lacking, not as some benevolent comparison thing.

In other words, remember saying "Wow! You guys really have a lot of 'My Baby's not ugly' syndrome and treat others as if they're idiots. It's pretty obvious to me that Reaper is the Linux of Daws. Those who use Linux, love it and will defend it to the end because Linux does everything and does it efficiently but out of the box Linux has the worst User Interface of any other OS out there until you spend time reconfiguring it and reading a bunch of tutorials to figure out how to reconfigure it." The motivations of your Linux parallel are clear in context, and it's not some separate neutral comparison all of a sudden.]

However, not going into that again [edit: I mean it, and I'll keep out of this regarding your actual theme development endeavours, I'd just appreciate if you also kept things honest here], and it's good that you get your theming rolling on a positive vibe in the Theming section. Wishing you all the best with that one.

[Rednroll]

Originally Posted by Lunar Ladder

Very nice!



It just sounded a lot like it, in your initial post . However, not going into that again, and it's good that you get your theming rolling on a positive vibe in the Theming section. Wishing you all the best with that one.

Thank you! Would appreciate any support on that theme discussion thread from anyone who could lend some of their experience along the way since I'm currently putting together a list of items I've attempted to achieve which I haven't quite been able to figure out yet.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by Rednroll

I've used Linux in the past on my PC machines, so my comment isn't coming from an inexperienced stereotypical perspective.

BTW.: Android is as Linux "Theme"
And AFAIK it's very seldom called "ugly" or "not user friendly".

-Michael

[Rednroll]

Originally Posted by mschnell

BTW.: Android is as Linux "Theme"
And AFAIK it's very seldom called "ugly" or "not user friendly".

-Michael

I'm aware. You're now heading in the discussion direction of missing the forest by staring at a particular tree and pointing out the characteristics of that single tree but missing the entire view of the forest that has been described.

If you really want to get into that type of nitpick then I'll point out to you the base user interface that comes from Google for Android is actually pretty ugly where the majority of developers reskin that included Android OS interface. Therefore the majority of Android based developments user interfaces you see in the market weren't included as part of the original Android OS package from Google. Google created a pretty basic ugly user interface which isn't very user friendly for Android developers to use to give them a head start on their developments. If you've actually seen or used that interface you likely wouldn't have made a comment like you did if you were trying to make an analogy to Reaper's default theme because the included Android UI is actually pretty ugly, not user friendly and it would be a disservice to the included Reaper default themes.

[Lunar Ladder]

Originally Posted by Rednroll

If you really want to get into that type of nitpick then I'll point out to you the base user interface that comes from Google for Android is actually pretty ugly where the majority of developers reskin that included Android OS interface. Therefore the majority of Android based developments user interfaces you see in the market weren't included as part of the original Android OS package from Google. Google created a pretty basic ugly user interface which isn't very user friendly for Android developers to use to give them a head start on their developments. If you've actually seen or used that interface you likely wouldn't have made a comment like you did if you were trying to make an analogy to Reaper's default theme because the included Android UI is actually pretty ugly, not user friendly and it would be a disservice to the included Reaper default themes.

Quoted for posterity. This is exactly backwards from what is the consensus in the market. Search "stock android" and check the articles that mention it, the stock version straight from Google is what is largely regarded as the preferred version.