Automatic latency compensation issue (Global+Reainsert) - SOLVED!

din_mentor · 05-05-2019, 02:08 AM

Hi,
having had much problems since along time back with wrong automatic latency compensation in reaper when routing signals out to my outboard gear and back,
meaning that the routed signals waveform always comes back out of time relative to the signal i sent out. please look into this as it is driving me crazy.

check the first 8 minutes of this video which explains it perfectly
https://youtu.be/19HnMme0-2U

Also Reainserts ping function does not work correctly.
I tried turning of automatic latency compensation and only using the ping function and it doesnt give a correct value.

i have found a program that does the same kind of measuring outside of reaper and it gets it right everytime, its called RTL utility:
https://oblique-audio.com/rtl-utility.php
would it be possible to update the Ping function in reainsert so that it works properly?

thank you!

Im using Windows 10 64, scarlett 2i4 Gen2, Reaper 5.976 at the moment.

din_mentor · 05-09-2019, 01:49 PM

No one that has problems with this??

din_mentor · 05-15-2019, 01:14 PM

??

din_mentor · 10-18-2019, 04:37 PM

Bump to the top

Thonex · 10-18-2019, 06:14 PM

I've had this problem.

Especially when using lots of other plugins.

So I believe something is getting compounded. I'll look over you video this weekend to see if I can spot something that looks familiar. I actually had to abandon the mix and finish it in Nuendo.

I was routing to an external Bricasti reverb.

Cheers,

Andrew K

din_mentor · 05-26-2021, 04:05 AM

Bump!

original post was 2 years ago, now running Reaper 6.29 and i have changed to Audient ID44, still the same problem though.

mlprod · 05-26-2021, 02:12 PM

Are you pinging with the gear bypassed or disconnected?

beingmf · 05-26-2021, 02:18 PM

Yes, it's weird - as you might have seen in my related thread, the high-latency plugins in the monitoring chain were indeed the culprit. But (!) still I can't get phase-correct ping when leaving Monitoring FX on. PDC is 32 samples.

din_mentor · 05-27-2021, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlprod

Are you pinging with the gear bypassed or disconnected?

tried both. Right now im using just a TRS cable out and in again, still the same problem.
(Hälsningar från en svensk till en annan

)

din_mentor · 05-27-2021, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beingmf

Yes, it's weird - as you might have seen in my related thread, the high-latency plugins in the monitoring chain were indeed the culprit. But (!) still I can't get phase-correct ping when leaving Monitoring FX on. PDC is 32 samples.

Yes i saw that

for me Monitoring FX does nothing, better or worse.

din_mentor · 06-03-2021, 08:03 AM

Bump

din_mentor · 06-08-2021, 12:29 AM

Why is nobody really engaging in these multiple threads about the delay compenastion issue?

mlprod · 06-08-2021, 02:22 AM

No problems here. Are you recording the outboard on a new track via input or on the same track recording the output?

Thonex · 06-08-2021, 08:36 PM

Maybe off-topic... but a Reaper user I trust told me to put all my mastering FCX in a top folder because the Master Bus doesn't PDC correctly in some cases.

So, I do that when doing serious stuff.

Anyone else heard of this?

Cheers,

Andrew K

mlprod · 06-09-2021, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thonex

Maybe off-topic... but a Reaper user I trust told me to put all my mastering FCX in a top folder because the Master Bus doesn't PDC correctly in some cases.

So, I do that when doing serious stuff.

Anyone else heard of this?

Cheers,

Andrew K

No, the master track doesnt do prebuffering of plugs but it does have PDC. Not that PDC matters that much on the masterbus...

din_mentor · 06-11-2021, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlprod

No problems here. Are you recording the outboard on a new track via input or on the same track recording the output?

I mainly use track A with a send to analogue out 3.
I connect output 3 to input 1 with just a TRS cable.
Track B records input 1.

I have tried using reainsert as well, the idea of the ping is great, but it just doesnt work for whatever reason.

None of the methods gets the latency correct without manually setting the latency compensation in preferences.

gorelik11 · 03-01-2022, 02:06 PM

Hi! I'm facing the same issue. Moreover, If I online render Reainsert, many times it places the track few ms later, especially, if it's a long track. Although on playback it's correct. So what I do, is I re-render a very short fragment, and align the long track wit short fragment. Did you ever experienced that? Yeah, people mostly not reacting, because not many Reaper users use hardware. Let's solve this out!

din_mentor · 05-30-2022, 03:06 AM

This is still an issue, why isnt this being handled?

din_mentor · 05-30-2022, 10:40 AM

Stumbled on the solution...

This thread from the RME-audio forum was VERY interesting (Props to user "Skoo" !)

This is the first time that i have made the internal reainsert ping function actually work for me, YEARS later.

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=33861

"...So here's how its done,
The first thing we have to do is open reapers preferences (Options/Preferences)
Now find "recording" from the list on the left hand side (audio/recording)

Here is where we do something completely unintuitive, yet necessary for RME devices; UNCHECK USE DRIVER REPORTED LATENCY... set all of your manual offsets to 0.

Now, still inside of preferences on the list on the left find Track/Send Defaults (under project)

You will see a "record config" option. click on the chosen input and check "Preserve PDC delays monitoring in recorded items" (COMMENT FROM din_mentor, unclear if necessary setting?? doesnt seem to change anything in the outcome?)

Apply and click OK

Select the track you wish to play around with and create an empty track underneath. Route your signal to that track

Now.. all you have to do is use the reainsert plugin on the empty track, bypass the hardware (physically in real life) and ping it once. Right click the record button (the red circle on the side of the track) and select "Record: Output / Latency Compensated"

Arm the track, press record and boom, No latency, regardless how many instances of hardware or software inserts you have. Reaper takes care of the Latency, you can rest easy knowing your material will be perfectly in phase.

Thats it, open as many hardware or software inserts as youd like, stack em as high as you want.. reaper will automatically compensate any and all delays.

This method works so well, you can NULL the original signal, all without entering a manual offset, independent of how many hardware and software inserts you have stacked on the track.

Once you've set it up once, it keeps working forever.
RME's latency reporting is either non existent or broken, idk. I was working through it for a long time, but I decided enough was enough. Spend some time trying everything I could think of until I did this..

Now i can mix and match hardware and software and not worry at all about latency. Its perfect!"

NOTE 1) To add to the above, i had to put Record monitoring to OFF on the reainsert track, to avoid feedback problems.

NOTE 2) i noticed that i CAN have "use audio driver reported latency" checked in the preferences, if i instead use the Record: output option without latency compensation.

when i think of it,
that setting "Record: Output...." probably says it all, would never have thought about it, because i didn't really know it existed until now!
but when i think of it, it makes PERFECT sense, the default "Record:input" setting is OF COURSE not taking into account the delay compensation that Reainserts ping function uses, if it is recording the INPUT of that channel.

My mind is totally blown.
I feel like a total jackass right now...

After normalizing the recording that went out and back in again (straight, DA to AD) it nulls when flipping the phase and all i hear is some treble loss from the process.

Edit:
Or... Just RTFM, section 3.36... Doh