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11-17-2019, 11:13 AM
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#1
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Pixel Pusher
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Blighty
Posts: 4,950
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Reaper V6 Default Theme - TESTING THE MIDI EDITOR
The Reaper V6 Default Theme's MIDI editor is now ready for testing. Please have at it and report back!
GET THE LATEST VERSION HERE
The MID editor is a tricky situation, because more than any other area of Reaper's themble UI it grows and alters a great deal between major versions, with a great deal of testing that I am not intimately involved with. I am also, relative to many of you, a light MIDI user, and many of you also use the ME in ways that are very different to the majority of casual Reaper users. Because of this, in previous default theme development cycles we have always (always!) reverted to the existing ME theming by the time the theme is final. There is a pretty good chance I'll be doing that again this time, as well. To reiterate:
It is likely I will be reverting the V5 MIDI Editor theming into the V6 theme
However, every time I do this it feels like an opportunity missed. I find it highly unlikely that the first midinotecolormap I ever made just so happened to be the best one I could possibly make, yet here we are still using it so many years later. So if we can get enough testing done on the new ME, I would be very eager.
As you will notice, I'm trying to do a dark background for the first time. This is not mere fashion; hardware manufacturers are driving computer screens to levels of full-white brightness that would have been unimaginable only a few years ago, and users aren't turning them down, because ...y'know... its awesome So it is of real-world value for us to try to make this work.
There have been some ME theming enhancements in recent Pre-Releases to help in this work, it is my expectation that there are unlikely to be any more, so my work now is to make the most of what we have (NO feature requests please!), and I would welcome your help with that.
Thanks!
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11-17-2019, 11:38 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,883
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I find this v6 ME coloring very pleasing to work with for longer periods. Even though ive created a few themes myself I personally always used the default ones for my work.
Ive been intenionally working with the alpha theme since its conception and its grown on me.(specially the darker arrange and ME bgs). I can say that the v5 midi editor colors werent so great to work with- as you said newer monitors are quite bright.
The latest Midi colormap is much more usable than the previous one (it clashed with the new selected velocity lollipops. The only thing i find a bit distracting is the violet color of cc automation in this latest. previous green (like the piano roll chosen note) or second red colors were better.
Best regards
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Win11, R 64bit
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11-17-2019, 01:04 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Dark themed ME is absolutely necessary, IMHO. You'll find many working composers who just can't work with all the brightness from a light themed ME for longer hours.
But yes - purple as CC color for channel 1 is a no go. Please change that to something that is more visible against the background color of CC lane (which is great actually!).
I would also suggest to change the background color of the left-side piano keyboard and right-side track list area (the greenish hue) because it is clashing way too much with the rest of piano roll. Ideally it should have the same color (or close to) as the MIDI editor ruler.
Compare this:
https://i.imgur.com/V8qctrV.png
with:
https://i.imgur.com/Tk97ez6.png
Which one seems less tiring for you to look at - and, more importantly, easier to discern what is what? These are all random notes and CCs, but it is a VERY realistic scenario for the working composer dealing with many MIDI tracks/channels. This has to look good/flattering/easy to discern. Right now the colormap could use some improvements in making that happen.
CCs for MIDI channel 1 are extremely hard to see, the dark purple has to go. But overall color scheme is MUCH MUCH BETTER than the drab bright theme that was in v5 theme.
Last edited by White Tie; 11-18-2019 at 12:24 PM.
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11-18-2019, 08:35 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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Definitely like a "dark mode" version better than a white background for sure.
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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11-18-2019, 11:50 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Dark themed ME is absolutely necessary, IMHO. You'll find many working composers who just can't work with all the brightness from a light themed ME for longer hours.
But yes - purple as CC color for channel 1 is a no go. Please change that to something that is more visible against the background color of CC lane (which is great actually!).
I would also suggest to change the background color of the left-side piano keyboard and right-side track list area (the greenish hue) because it is clashing way too much with the rest of piano roll. Ideally it should have the same color (or close to) as the MIDI editor ruler.
Compare this:
with:
Which one seems less tiring for you to look at - and, more importantly, easier to discern what is what? These are all random notes and CCs, but it is a VERY realistic scenario for the working composer dealing with many MIDI tracks/channels. This has to look good/flattering/easy to discern. Right now the colormap could use some improvements in making that happen.
CCs for MIDI channel 1 are extremely hard to see, the dark purple has to go. But overall color scheme is MUCH MUCH BETTER than the drab bright theme that was in v5 theme.
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I agree with a dark theme and no dark purple for channel 1. The second picture with the slightly lighter grey and less saturated notes and CCs stand out much better and easier on the eye.
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11-18-2019, 11:59 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 5,988
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Evil Dragon's mock-up (or example) has a good use of color and looks a big improvement to me too.
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11-18-2019, 12:07 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 604
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I love the piano roll.
Of course the dark option works well (or even better) for me ... I don't have any preference between WT's and ED's option. But plz ... my eyes are getting old, make clear the selected note plz, both in the piano roll and the ME, as easy to identify as possible.
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11-19-2019, 04:24 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: They put me in a home.
Posts: 3,432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Dark themed ME is absolutely necessary, IMHO. You'll find many working composers who just can't work with all the brightness from a light themed ME for longer hours.
Which one seems less tiring for you to look at - and, more importantly, easier to discern what is what? These are all random notes and CCs, but it is a VERY realistic scenario for the working composer dealing with many MIDI tracks/channels. This has to look good/flattering/easy to discern. Right now the colormap could use some improvements in making that happen.
CCs for MIDI channel 1 are extremely hard to see, the dark purple has to go. But overall color scheme is MUCH MUCH BETTER than the drab bright theme that was in v5 theme.
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I am one of those working folks who cannot
But I'm optimistic about V6 because I have faith. ReaFaith
__________________
47.8% of statistics are made up.
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11-20-2019, 07:54 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
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Stupid question but for this how did you get some velocity text to be light and others dark depending on the note color?
EDIT ok I checked my own theme and it also does this. I swear it didn't used to do this... very confused now...
Last edited by Argle; 11-20-2019 at 08:14 AM.
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11-18-2019, 08:39 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 875
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I prefer a little darker look of the Midi Editor, and I'm putting a link here so you can see my thoughts on it. It's easier for me to show instead of writing in my bad English))
Really don’t want to take away focus from WT’s fine creation, which I honestly think is very useful, only with some minor color-tweaks as already mentioned. I would vote for the gray’ish (upper) version. Perhaps the lower one with dark background will create problems on other UI windows that include tab text(?)
My suggestion here uses tweaked V6, the Midi Colormap is a brighter version of V5 default.
Only thing I would swap or re-arrange, is the first red (CC 1) that I believe should be a green-like V6 ‘identity-color’ – perhaps also the purple a touch brighter.
– use it for inspiration, or ignore it!
https://i.ibb.co/MMgBgGq/V6-Midi-Editor-dark-alt.png
Last edited by White Tie; 11-18-2019 at 12:39 PM.
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11-18-2019, 10:58 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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I would like to know if you plan on leaving a light background MIDI editor as an option for those of us who struggle to see these dark themes.
As your eyes get older, many of us experience difficulties with light fonts on dark backgrounds.
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Ici on parles Franglais
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11-18-2019, 11:22 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
I would like to know if you plan on leaving a light background MIDI editor as an option for those of us who struggle to see these dark themes.
As your eyes get older, many of us experience difficulties with light fonts on dark backgrounds.
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i agree. this coming from someone who still uses the default version 1.0 reaper theme. (not kidding)
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11-18-2019, 11:44 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhelixK
I prefer a little darker look of the Midi Editor,
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The problem with darker look is persistence of vision due to the greater contrast with other elements.
Read a text on a web page that has white text against a pure black background. Then, look around. The image is burnt on your retina longer. It's not user friendly in the long run.
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11-19-2019, 05:58 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
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Channel colors need more differentiation, preferably in hue.
pic - up/down channels 1,2,3,4; left-right unselected/selected
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11-19-2019, 06:05 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
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Do not forget the notation.
The problem is the notation is white BG, but the colors used for notes are the same as in the MIDI editor with the dark BG. Notation cannot be dark, it would be really distracting.
Pic - up/down channels 1,2,3,4. Left - unselected notes, right - selected notes. Option to color noteheads is on.
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11-19-2019, 06:19 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Using a darker background (not fully dark, but some gray, maybe WT's favorite green-gray hue? ) would maybe work... it's tricky with notation. I don't have it fully sorted out in my RADO v4 theme, but at least it's an attempt...
https://i.imgur.com/2a3JXvj.png
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11-19-2019, 07:17 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
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This is a dark BG with white notes and I don't think this would work for the majority of notation users. Notation has been used for centuries and it was on white paper. For me it is far more easier to orient myself in the white BG and dark notes.
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11-19-2019, 07:22 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
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These are my colors. I am using mainly 4 channels (4 voices is the default thing in notation, SATB), with 5,6 as supplementary ones. I tried to spread hues as much as possible and also tweaked brightness.
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11-19-2019, 07:29 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bFooz
This is a dark BG with white notes and I don't think this would work for the majority of notation users. Notation has been used for centuries and it was on white paper. For me it is far more easier to orient myself in the white BG and dark notes.
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Yeah, I know. It's weird and needs an adjustment phase. But it blends well with the rest of the GUI, at least.
(Your note colors look pretty great!)
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11-19-2019, 07:33 AM
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#20
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Pixel Pusher
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Blighty
Posts: 4,950
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I don't touch the notation editor, that is very much schwa's domain. But you're absolutely right, there is a fundamental problem here that I hadn't considered
Possible huge rethink in progress, please stand by.
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11-19-2019, 08:06 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bFooz
This is a dark BG with white notes and I don't think this would work for the majority of notation users. Notation has been used for centuries and it was on white paper. For me it is far more easier to orient myself in the white BG and dark notes.
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True.
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11-19-2019, 02:08 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,294
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I just came back from a friend that used reaper until 2 weeks ago and now moved to another DAW because of reaper's GUI (theme)
his reason was the same as what I feel exactly "reaper just doesn't feel complete" which is not inspiring enough..
I moved back to FLstudio but I still use reaper for final mixing.
my friend move to studio one and left reaper behind
I really feel that reaper need more attention and maybe more people involved to make it looks more completed DAW.
I see updates every 2-3 days, but still after 10 years that I use this program, it feels drafty somehow and not as inspiring when it comes to its GUI.
not sure that you care
but I'm just saying... and that's because I still care.
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11-20-2019, 02:12 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflected
I just came back from a friend that used reaper until 2 weeks ago and now moved to another DAW because of reaper's GUI (theme)
his reason was the same as what I feel exactly "reaper just doesn't feel complete" which is not inspiring enough..
I moved back to FLstudio but I still use reaper for final mixing.
my friend move to studio one and left reaper behind
I really feel that reaper need more attention and maybe more people involved to make it looks more completed DAW.
I see updates every 2-3 days, but still after 10 years that I use this program, it feels drafty somehow and not as inspiring when it comes to its GUI.
not sure that you care
but I'm just saying... and that's because I still care.
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The GUI and the Theme are two different things. At least in Reaper you can use lots of themes or even do your own theme... "inspiring themes" ... my goodness, no comment.
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11-20-2019, 02:55 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,883
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The new greenish cc color is much better.
__________________
Win11, R 64bit
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11-20-2019, 03:24 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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^^^^ Extremely good idea!
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11-19-2019, 02:21 PM
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#27
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Pixel Pusher
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Blighty
Posts: 4,950
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!NEW VERSION! Please see the theme thread for a new version with the changes we've been discussing.
- A number of colouring tweaks
- The new note color map. Unselected state is now brighter, mute is black, channel one colour change.
The change to the channel one colour, in particular, seems like a big win. Thanks to everyone who suggested it!
You'll be pleased to know a fix for the notation problem is on its way, please keep an eye out for a when a new pre is available.
Last edited by White Tie; 11-19-2019 at 04:26 PM.
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11-20-2019, 02:21 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 454
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i like the darker background.but i agree,there need to be better contrast
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11-20-2019, 08:44 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Joisey
Posts: 5,988
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Quick impressions on the MIDI Editor:
1. Like the background colors and overall look.
2. Unselected notes are too dark. They're so mellow, they almost look like they belong to a different, inactive track/clip.
3. There are too many velocity colors. Purple, blue, turquoise, green, orange, red? What does that mean to me? A two-color diverging color scheme would be much more effective. Blue to Red (like a thermometer) is the most obvious/intuitive. Blue to orange works too.
4. I think having the measure number appear higher than the sub-divisions in the ruler doesn't look particularly great. It's also inconsistent with the main arranger ruler. I'd also like to see a little more contrast with those numbers. They're a little difficult to see on my laptop in a dimly lit room.
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11-20-2019, 10:52 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: China
Posts: 654
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Note colors in the MIDI editor look nice and clear!
Bar line and beat, hope to be clearer.
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11-22-2019, 04:04 AM
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#31
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Pixel Pusher
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Blighty
Posts: 4,950
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Thanks for all your help folks! Please see the main RC1 download for the latest changes and use this thread to feedback.
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