335 guitar always out of tune?

[Tubeguy]

Could not find guitar section so hopefully it's ok here in general one.

335's always sounds very slightly out of tune to me. I have genuine one and a copy and even when I borrow another one, they sound that way. Even more so when paired with single ended amp. All my other guitars always seem perfectly in tune. Maybe something about their sound is triggering my ears I don't know but it's bizarre. Anyone else?

[hopi]

you might want to have a read over on Taylor guitars about the V Class bracing system and related articles by Andy Powers... the inventor of that...

reason for bothering is detailed explanations about intonation of guitars in general....

I have an older custom shop 335 and it seems as in tune as it should be... but then again it was set up by a really good guy... which makes all the diff when it comes to intonation.

[grinder]

Go to a luthier with a good or better reputation
I have had a 335 from the 70's onward they are not out
by nature.
Could be something simple whatever. If you are not into
working a guitar over it is simpler and in most cases to just pay the dollars to a good person who knows what they are doing.
My 335 has an outstanding sound
despite having a tailpiece on the bridge these are often rubbished for sound this is not so with mine.
I used a luthier on my 335 only once, I have to say he did a beautiful job.
I have always with this one exception worked on my own guitars.
( I have many guitars and have been playing for around 44 years )
I agree with Hopi... and you have a really good guitar get it fixed.

Grinder

[serr]

Originally Posted by Tubeguy

Could not find guitar section so hopefully it's ok here in general one.

335's always sounds very slightly out of tune to me. I have genuine one and a copy and even when I borrow another one, they sound that way. Even more so when paired with single ended amp. All my other guitars always seem perfectly in tune. Maybe something about their sound is triggering my ears I don't know but it's bizarre. Anyone else?

I thought that was going to be the name of a song or album.

I've set up plenty of 335's and they dial right in like most guitars. Gibson were just notorious for the level of not quite finished (to be kind) some of their guitars left the factory. Get it setup by a competent luthier.

[ernzo]

I don't want to set the world on fire but..

It seems Gibson guitars originally used a wrong Temperament in their fret spacing,
not matching Equal Temperament nor other traditional approaches.

Later on they adopted the Vincenzo Galilei's "Rule of 18", but it's still an unprecise temperament:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yCLckbp8ps

Perhaps that's what you're hearing?

[grinder]

No argument here Enzo that is probably why I use Melodyne sometimes
on my 335!
I still like Santana's sound from his early SG though regardless of
what his intonation was. It is a thing though if you have a great ear or play the guitar a heap that you quite naturally bring a string to pitch while playing.

Grinder
Oh I liked the video now there is a person who knows his stuff.

[ernzo]

Originally Posted by grinder

It is a thing though if you have a great ear or play the guitar a heap that you quite naturally bring a string to pitch while playing.

Right,
No guitar is ever fully in tune (except perhaps the ones with crooked frets?),
and it's probably part of the Gibson trademark sound afterall..

[Tubeguy]

Originally Posted by grinder

It is a thing though if you have a great ear or play the guitar a heap that you quite naturally bring a string to pitch while playing.

That's exactly what I do. But there is actually nothing wrong with it, I know how to set intonation and everything else. Been doing it for 30 years.
But they do sound a little of tune to me. Most people I can't hear it but I did find some people that can. Maybe it's in the "bite" they have when amp gets driven harder that's why is more obvious with SE amps. Maybe my SE amps are out of tune?

[brainwreck]

I have noticed it too that some guitars have a sort of out of tuneness in the attack, which can be cool for some playing styles, such as old blues or rock n roll stuff. Maybe yours is one of those and is just a bad fit for your playing style.

Originally Posted by Tubeguy

Maybe my SE amps are out of tune?

Single-ended amps have a different harmonic structure when overdriven than push-pull amps. I never found a single-ended amp that I really like the sound of, but I haven't tried a bunch, since of the ones that I have tried I didn't like. For example, I didn't really understand the whole Valve Junior craze, however many years ago that was. Those amps sounded like ass to me.

[Fergler]

I have an epiphone 335 and it's main tuning problem is how flexible the neck is. Doesn't take much of a push to throw it out.

[somebodyelseuk]

Originally Posted by ernzo

I don't want to set the world on fire but..

It seems Gibson guitars originally used a wrong Temperament in their fret spacing,
not matching Equal Temperament nor other traditional approaches.

Later on they adopted the Vincenzo Galilei's "Rule of 18", but it's still an unprecise temperament:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yCLckbp8ps

Perhaps that's what you're hearing?

Yes and no.

Gibson originally used a 24.6" scale length, BUT it was assumed that it was 24.75", for a long time. Then, sometime during the Norlin era (late '70s/early '80s) 'they started putting the bridge 24.75" from the nut, but nobody told the guy who was cutting the frets slots, so some guitars went out with the bridge in the wrong place.I'd expect they've all been fixed by now, but you never know?
Most 'copies' have the 24.75" length, and presumably they put the frets in the right place?
Obviously, Gibson corrected the error - whther they went back to 24.6 or moved the frets to 24.75, I don't know, but whichever way they went, then, today, a brand new Gibson has 24.6" scale length with the frets in the right place.

[Nip]

Loosening the original Grover on my 335(2008) it showed that drilled holes by Gibson factory were 0.6mm larger than to have a press fit of tuning machines.

As times goes, and wood because more dry - it can happend that tuning machines are not tight enough to remain stable.

So check out hex nut at each tuning machine so not loose.

I changed to Schaller Keystone tuning machines, and never looked back. Much lighter weight on headstock and whole instrument more resonant. Since hole was 10.4mm and base of tuner was 9.8mm I wrapped two turns of copper sheet metal I had to make press fit.

So what di they think at Gibson factory - we save a minute on every guitar drilling holes in heastock if we keep the same dimension as already in place - instead of changing to a proper one. Is that the standard for $3000 guitars????

Never had tuning issues though on the 335. Grover just slipped going forward/backwards too much. Bonus became the over all tone of the guitar.

The LP though was another matter - and gotten Keystone on those as well it was also improvement compared to Kluson originals where baseplate with gear of tuning machine takes all the heat holding pole steady.

[Reason]

I thought you had three hundred and thirty five guitars that were never in tune. I don't have a solution for that problem. Even throwing money at it won't solve it if you can afford 335 of em.

Back on topic, how's the action on the ones you've played? Is it high enough that it could be the culprit?