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Old 12-07-2007, 04:47 AM   #81
Alex Stone
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Default Jacklab...

As part of my ongoing Linux journey, i revisited a distro which i tried to install some little while ago, that being JAD. Got no closer this time than last with the install stalling at 'please put cd1 in the drive', from a dvd (and dvd image from their own site.). Not sure what's happening here, but if anyone has contact with the jad team, maybe it's worth mentioning. (this is the install dvd, not live.) I think these guys are onto something with a muso driven package, and i'd hate to see them disadvantaged at the first hurdle. (Remembering i'm a linux dummy.)

p.s. (This is starting to read like a diary...) If anyone can tell me why 64studio doesn't have pppoe config as part of the package, and how they get around this for a dsl connection, i'm all ears.
Cos if i can't update the distro and add packages, there isn't really much point.


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Old 12-07-2007, 04:52 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkster1 View Post
Alex, as far as audio cards go, PCI is your best bet.
USB Audio is second best choice, firewire is still very problematic, to say the least.
Although development of the freebob drivers (which handle firewire devices) is advancing relatively fast. M-Audio PCI cards are generally very wel supported (I own a Delta 1010LT, never had the slightest problem), some Echo cards and a few others.

For my graphics card, an old ATI Radeon 7000/VE (RV100 QY), I had it working perfectly in 64 Studio i.e. with two differently sized monitors (19"+17" CRT's).
But in UBS I can't use the same xorg.conf, as they use another xorg version and RandR >1.2. And I don't even want 3D or Beryl/Compiz what have you. Just my 2 monitors working as they should.
You can effectively find several dozen howto's or whatever on the net, each explaining things differently, based on different distros with diff. xorg versions
Not really funny.

Cheers
Raphael
I think i would go with pci anyway Raphael. And i didn't install compiz on the audio os, so i don't know if it would work or not!



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Old 12-07-2007, 08:55 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Alex Stone View Post
Is linuxsampler 64 bit?
Yes. I can run it in 64 Studio.

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Can i use Wine in a 64 bit distro? (USt, for example.)
Yes. It's possible to compile a 32-bit version that will run in a 64-bit system. However, you can't use it with JACK, which totally blows the latency.

Quote:
If so, does Reaper load in Wine in 64 bit ok? (Has anyone tried this?)
I've run Reaper under Wine in 64 Studio. I ran some VSTs in Reaper, but I didn't keep track of my experiments.

Quote:
How do i check how much memory (ram) i can use before LS, or other linux programmes will say that's enough? If i can check the memory limit, can i change it? (I have 4gb of ram and dual core amd64, and if all this stuff can work in 64bit, then i'm keen to set higher ram usage limits if possible.)
Good question re: memory limit, you'll have to ask Christian or Rui on the Linuxsampler site.

I think the memory limit is set in the kernel configuration. And yes, with the AMD64 you should be able to access huge amounts of RAM. Note that I have not verified this, and that my 64 Studio machine has only 2 GB memory.
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Old 12-09-2007, 02:07 AM   #84
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Yes. I can run it in 64 Studio.



Yes. It's possible to compile a 32-bit version that will run in a 64-bit system. However, you can't use it with JACK, which totally blows the latency.



I've run Reaper under Wine in 64 Studio. I ran some VSTs in Reaper, but I didn't keep track of my experiments.



Good question re: memory limit, you'll have to ask Christian or Rui on the Linuxsampler site.

I think the memory limit is set in the kernel configuration. And yes, with the AMD64 you should be able to access huge amounts of RAM. Note that I have not verified this, and that my 64 Studio machine has only 2 GB memory.
Dave, thanks again for the input! I´ve conquered the memory bit i think.

An update:

Linuxsampler in USt32 is working fine with Reaper. And the memory limit is related to ´memlock.´

Using the preparation guidelines in the Ubuntu forums, memlock is set to 512000, which is 512mb. Ok for most apps, but a little short for linux sampler. As i have 4gb of ram, i could afford to be a bit adventurous, and with some trial and error, i set the memlock to 1536000, which is just over 1.5gb of ram. Nothing broke, and LS now loads a complete orchestra with multi articulations for each instrument, particularly the strings. So for those who want to use LS to run big gig sample sets, this may be a clue for you. (rtprio stays at 99, and nice at -19)

This is nearly double the ram i could use in gigasampler (in win) so i´m rather pleased with the result. Jack is running in realtime/softmode (with a priority of 89, thanks woot for the tip) at 48000/2/128 for latency of 8ms.

In addition to this, i can set the number of ports (midi) in linuxsampler when instigating a device. So i have Jack as the audio device, and alsa as the midi device with 10 ports. (assignable)
That means, in Reaper, i can midi hardware output to 90 plus instruments, in ports, and direct the midi data specifically. (Each port has 16 midi channels, so port 1, with an alias renaming in Reaper to ´1st violins´, is able to handle multi articulations easily, and without triggering other instruments that may have the same midi channel number, on a different port.)

I also, as an experiment, ran LS in a purely non wine session, with muse for the midi input, ls as the sample engine, and ardour as the audio ´receiver.´ Works well, and with low, low latency. The mmc, through jack is flawless, and triggers all three programs correctly, each time. I´m going to try muse/ls/reaper shortly, and see how well the three apps talk to each other.

There little doubt that linux as an os, and wine as a vehicle for win progs takes some tweaking to get running. But i´ve discovered it´s not as daunting as it first appears, and with a bit of research, and patience, does work well. A big heads up for Justin and the team, as Reaper seems to be the most robust and forgiving of all the win programs i´ve tried in wine.

And a big thanks to 404, who´s timely advice about qsampler got all this rolling. I hope i can reciprocate at some point, when my knowledge improves.

My previously 400 track plus template in Reaper is no more, and track count, with 10 midi ´ls port´ tracks, is down to 46.
A considerable improvement.

More to follow.....


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Old 12-09-2007, 02:47 AM   #85
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...the memory limit is related to ´memlock.´
Ah, yes, the memlock thingie. Back in The Day there was no such thing, so I tend to forget that it's there. My bad, but I'm glad you found out about it.

Quote:
...A big heads up for Justin and the team, as Reaper seems to be the most robust and forgiving of all the win programs i´ve tried in wine.
It's surely *one* of the best-running apps. I've tried a lot of stuff, you might be surprised at what runs well. AudioMulch performs nicely, as does a fixed version of VSThost, a lot of energyXT2 users like the Windows version in Wine, and many smaller audio apps perform well too. I think success in Wine has to do with the degree of conformity that the programmer is willing to work with in Windows itself. The big packages have a lot of proprietary solutions that work outside the Windows API or work with as-yet undocumented parts of the API (I'm guessing here, don't hold me too closely to these thoughts), so it's difficult or impossible to figure out how they're supposed to work in Wine (which is itself chasing a moving target). So less clever stuff in the original codebase may mean an easier time when working in Wine.
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Old 12-09-2007, 02:27 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by StudioDave View Post
Ah, yes, the memlock thingie. Back in The Day there was no such thing, so I tend to forget that it's there. My bad, but I'm glad you found out about it.



It's surely *one* of the best-running apps. I've tried a lot of stuff, you might be surprised at what runs well. AudioMulch performs nicely, as does a fixed version of VSThost, a lot of energyXT2 users like the Windows version in Wine, and many smaller audio apps perform well too. I think success in Wine has to do with the degree of conformity that the programmer is willing to work with in Windows itself. The big packages have a lot of proprietary solutions that work outside the Windows API or work with as-yet undocumented parts of the API (I'm guessing here, don't hold me too closely to these thoughts), so it's difficult or impossible to figure out how they're supposed to work in Wine (which is itself chasing a moving target). So less clever stuff in the original codebase may mean an easier time when working in Wine.
Good point here Dave. The wine team deserve a big thanks for their efforts. None of this would be possible without them. I have Reap,Qsampler, and Jack all talking nicely to each other now.

p.s. Any idea if anyoneś building a linux version of asio4all, whether itś linked to wine or not? And i´ve just pushed memlock to just under 2gb, and itś playing nicely so far. Big find that one.

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Old 12-10-2007, 06:43 AM   #87
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Default Wine asio

As an attempt to keep the linux stuff in one thread for my USt journey, i like to thank Raphael, (the funkster himself) for posting the update to wineasio, and generously building a .deb for us dummies. Hereś the link to his thread.
Thanks Raph!
http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthre...932#post135932

And a big thank you to the wineasio team for giving us another fine tool to work with, and the chance to use Reaper well, in linux.

An update to Qsampler. After a bit more tweaking, and further increase in memallocation, qsampler (LS) is now cruising along, loaded with a full orchestra at about 1.9gb of a total of 4gb of ram (which is almost three times the mem i could use with gigasampler). Runs like a train. Thanks to Rui, Christian and the team for the ongoing work with this. Fits with Reaper, like a glove.(or should that be condom?) If you could see your way to increasing the channel count at some stage, it would be much appreciated. I am up to 97 of 99!

Cheers chaps!

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Old 12-17-2007, 01:56 AM   #88
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A quick update for the reaper tuxheads.

Having experimented further with the memlock setting in UBs (memory access limit), in direct relation to Linuxsampler´s limit on how many gig files it can load, i´m rather pleased to report i´ve eased the memlock up to 2048000, with no problems. (That´s 2.048GB of memory assigned for use by the program)

So for those who have lots of ram (mine is 4gb), and are running samplers, and other progs which benefit from this, the memlock setting has a direct impact. (in my modest experience as a linux dummie)

NOTE: The memlock does not seem to work when using programmes from within Wine. (That´s Win programmes running in Wine) I went looking, and did some research, but can´t seem to find info that would enable me to configure wine with higher mem levels. (if that is possible) This has had a direct effect on a couple of Orchestral VST´s, with a fairly low limit of what can be loaded, before they spit the dummy, and say no more.

rtprio at 99
memlock at 2048000
nice at-19

seem to work well.

Jack settings are:

realtime/softmode checked. (Thanks Jack and Woot for these tips)

priority 89
frames 64
S/rate 48000
buffers 2 (This goes to three when i´m running the sampler loaded to the gunwales with a full orchestra..)

Ports max 512
Timeout 2000

Wine......

When using Qsampler, which is now steaming along nicely, i can define the number of midi and audio ports out, in options. A very useful option when running a full orchestra, with lots of sections, and different instruments to deal with.
And JACK sees all these ports, and gleefully sets them up, so no prob there.
The challenge remains with wine, which somehow seems restricted to 2 ins and 2 outs for audio, and ´sees' a maximum of 12 qsampler midi ports. I.e. I have 24 ports for midi into qsampler driving instruments. In Reaper i can only have 12 of those ports visible and enabled as midi hardware outputs.

This may also be related to the wineasio driver, but, and i write this somewhat ruefully, i know i´m not clever enough in linux (yet) to figure this out, and make any changes, if possible.

If someone can help here, it would be appreciated.



The next challenges....

Setting up multiple in/out for Alsa, with wineasio.

Getting Dual monitors working with an ATI card. (I just may dump the ati card and buy an nvidia. Any shared experiences with this would be useful and appreciated.)

Learning how to setup an asoundrc file to manually set parameters, and what is possible. (I´m not using one at the moment.)

All of the above is in UbuntuStudio (Gutsy 7.10) with RT kernel.

Alex

The journey continues....
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Old 12-17-2007, 02:37 AM   #89
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Hi All:

Well, I am attempting to jump on the linux bandwagon here. I've just installed JAD, after little success wrestling with UbuntuStudio, and it works better out of the box than any linux distro yet on my Dell 8200. The second install worked, and I chose the KDE desktop, because I was mystified by the default desktop. Don't know the ramifications of this choice exactly.

I'm having problems with my touchpad and wireless, but I cannot get past the anti-spam feature in order to register for the JAD forums. Metasymbol are you out there?? Help, what can I do--I am shown as an 'inactive' member (woodslanding) and I tried to create a new user in order to pose this question, but I can't get past the spam-control. I AM NOT A ROBOT, darn it!

I can't do much until I can get the mouse pointer across the screen in less than a minute!

If I can get past this, I will be able to test out Jack and Wine. Looks like JAD recognizes my hammerfall interface okay!

Hope to hear something. I guess I will try to post this somewhere in the SUSE forums also, if I can manage to register there.

Cheers!
eric
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Old 12-17-2007, 04:30 AM   #90
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I've just installed JAD, after little success wrestling with UbuntuStudio, and it works better out of the box than any linux distro yet on my Dell 8200. The second install worked, and I chose the KDE desktop, because I was mystified by the default desktop. Don't know the ramifications of this choice exactly.
It's not significant *unless* the artsd sound daemon is activated as a matter of course by your system. I use JAD too, and if I recall correctly it should auto-dump artsd (and esd in GNOME, I think).

Another consideration: If you're short on RAM or have a slow video system you may want to use the e18 default desktop. When you're feeling braver, try Fluxbox, that's what I use, it's very fast and lightweight.

Quote:
... I cannot get past the anti-spam feature in order to register for the JAD forums. Metasymbol are you out there?? Help, what can I do--I am shown as an 'inactive' member (woodslanding) and I tried to create a new user in order to pose this question, but I can't get past the spam-control. I AM NOT A ROBOT, darn it!
IRC is your friend. Log on to Freenode then join the #jacklab channel. Meta hangs out there frequently, as well as the other JAD maintainers.
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Old 12-17-2007, 05:22 AM   #91
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Default finding out more about more stuff

Greetings to Alex et al,

One thing I'd like to stress is that few if any Linux audio developers are subbed to the Reaper list. They're not avoiding it, they just have their own things going on and their own projects. If you're looking for answers to program-specific questions regarding Linux software I urge you to :

1) Write directly to the author. His/her name will usually be in the README or some other info file. Directly contacting a programmer is common practice in the Linux world, so don't be shy.

2) Join the Linux audio users mail list at http://lad.linuxaudio.org/subscribe/lau.html and ask away there too, especially questions regarding system configuration. Some devels are on that list, but there are a lot of other bright folks there too, some whom have been running Linux for a long time.

3) Harder-cores will want to join the Linux Audio Developers mail list too, it's at http://lad.linuxaudio.org/.

Both lists have archives, you'll do well to search there for answers too. Google is also your friend.

Problems re: Wine are a bit thornier than the usual Linux aggravations, so don't expect much assistance from those devels, they're too busy chasing down undocumented Windows functions.

I'm not sure if there's a users group for Wine, I'll have to check.

And of course you should feel free about asking me anything Linux-related. I may not be able to help, but if not, I will try to come up with an amusing reply.

HTH,

dp
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Old 12-17-2007, 05:22 AM   #92
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Wine......

When using Qsampler, which is now steaming along nicely, i can define the number of midi and audio ports out, in options. A very useful option when running a full orchestra, with lots of sections, and different instruments to deal with.
And JACK sees all these ports, and gleefully sets them up, so no prob there.
The challenge remains with wine, which somehow seems restricted to 2 ins and 2 outs for audio, and ´sees' a maximum of 12 qsampler midi ports. I.e. I have 24 ports for midi into qsampler driving instruments. In Reaper i can only have 12 of those ports visible and enabled as midi hardware outputs.

This may also be related to the wineasio driver, but, and i write this somewhat ruefully, i know i´m not clever enough in linux (yet) to figure this out, and make any changes, if possible.
Ok, further to this with some more experimentation.

Using a patchbay programme called Patchage, i can clearly see all the linux native stuff displayed, with the numerous ports for midi and audio in the linux sampler representation. (There is a lot, lol.)
So far so good.

But when i open Reaper, and go back to patchage, the wine midi representation appears for a brief moment, then disappears, preventing me from tweaking the cabling further. So at the moment, it seems, i can´t examine why the number of ports is limited going in and out of Wine/wineasio.

And further. If i exceed what seems an arbitrary limit of midiports in and out of reaper/wine/wineasio, then my input ports start disappearing, eg.my midi keyboard. Removing output ports restores the midi keyboard input to view.

There´s definitely a limit here, and i´m off to research it further, but if anyone can help with this, it would be much appreciated.
I´m quite close now to having an ideal setup, with only the port restriction holding me back.

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Old 12-17-2007, 11:07 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by StudioDave View Post
Greetings to Alex et al,

One thing I'd like to stress is that few if any Linux audio developers are subbed to the Reaper list. They're not avoiding it, they just have their own things going on and their own projects. If you're looking for answers to program-specific questions regarding Linux software I urge you to :

1) Write directly to the author. His/her name will usually be in the README or some other info file. Directly contacting a programmer is common practice in the Linux world, so don't be shy.

2) Join the Linux audio users mail list at http://lad.linuxaudio.org/subscribe/lau.html and ask away there too, especially questions regarding system configuration. Some devels are on that list, but there are a lot of other bright folks there too, some whom have been running Linux for a long time.

3) Harder-cores will want to join the Linux Audio Developers mail list too, it's at http://lad.linuxaudio.org/.

Both lists have archives, you'll do well to search there for answers too. Google is also your friend.

Problems re: Wine are a bit thornier than the usual Linux aggravations, so don't expect much assistance from those devels, they're too busy chasing down undocumented Windows functions.

I'm not sure if there's a users group for Wine, I'll have to check.

And of course you should feel free about asking me anything Linux-related. I may not be able to help, but if not, I will try to come up with an amusing reply.

HTH,

dp
Dave, thanks again for the heads up. I´ve been researching quite a bit on different aspects of getting all this running smoothly, and your articles have been a major feature of that research.

The amusing replies will be most welcome!

Alex.

Going back to figuring out how to get more midi ports in Alsa/Wine......
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Old 12-18-2007, 12:28 AM   #94
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Well, I gotta say I admire you guy's patience and dedication. I've tried UnbutuStudio last week-end, and I couldn't even get a desktop with it, all I got was a Dos type command line prompt
This happened to me the first time I installed it. There is a page in the installer with some confusing graphics, something like this:

[_] Audio Apps
[_] Multimedia
[_] Video apps
[_] Desktop

etc.

The spaces between the brackets need to have asterisks put in them. I think with the arrow keys and spacebar?? I sort of forget. But don't press enter here until you have asterisks next to everything! I complained on the ubuntu forums about this--glad to see I wasn't the only one confused.

What installer defaults with everything OFF????

This way you will get a desktop AND some applications. Not that you're out of the woods, but at least you know you are IN the woods.

Personally, I'm having better luck with JAD (Jack audio Development) which installed really effortlessly, and unlike Ubuntu, recognized my network card. I installed it with the desktop KDE (it's an obvious choice during installation) which I would so far recommend. I couldn't figure out how to configure any settings from the default desktop.

Everything I say should be taken with a grain of salt as I'm still on day one, and haven't actually gotten any audio working.

I'll put my questions about that in another post....

cheers,
eric
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Old 12-18-2007, 12:31 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Alex Stone View Post
UbuntuStudio 32bit is really starting to settle in now, and after figuring out how to install win progs into wine (doh)
Hey, can you tell me where you found this info?? That's exactly my current confusion....

thanks!
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Old 12-18-2007, 01:40 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by woodslanding View Post
Hey, can you tell me where you found this info?? That's exactly my current confusion....

thanks!
eric
you just double-click on an .exe file and then it should ask you if you want to open it with WINE.

Just say yes and if wine can it will run the .exe file (installer or program or whatever)

Kind regards

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Old 12-18-2007, 02:11 AM   #97
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Default Can't get Jack out of JACK.....

Okay, I figured out how to start reaper with wine, and I put it in usr/bin/ which it allowed me to do. And started it from the command line.

But it is performing really poorly. Can someone explain to me the settings for jack, wine audio, and audio prefs in reaper that have worked for them??

I finally did get the audio enabled (I couldn't use the Jack-RT setting, as that wouldn't allow me to start the server at all!) but I can press play on brad sucks, and it just freezes up and nothing happens. I got glitchy sound once, but haven't been able to replicate it.

I don't see a choice for ASIO from within Jack itself. Which driver should I use there? I have ALSA selected, just because it's the only acronym I recognize!

I'm using my internal sound card which works great under ASIO4all with reaper windows. I tried selecting my hammerfall pcmcia card, but jack won't start with that setting. The message window just says 'could not connect to JACK server as client.'

In the JACK connections window, all the buttons are greyed out, don't know if that is significant.

Screen redraws are glacial. Something is obviously pretty wrong.

This is with JAD 1.0

Here are some lines from the log that might be significant:

Warning: no locale found: /usr/share/locale/gjackctl_en_US.UTF-8.gm

err:module:import_dll Library MSVCP60.dll not found

and most significantly:
jack_client_thread zombified - exiting from JACK

That last one is pretty unambiguous!


Tried some different settings, and now both Jack and Reaper are frozen.

Thanks for any ideas!
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Old 12-18-2007, 02:18 AM   #98
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you need to adjust the audio prefs in wine to JACK only.

Then in reaper wineasio should be available if it's installed properly.

You adjust the latency by adjusting the buffer size in jack.

try 3x128 for starters.

There is a really good website online - google for it, about how to setup wineasio with reaper.

Kind regards

Dave Rich.
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Old 12-18-2007, 02:47 AM   #99
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Eric, i can´t speak for JAD, as i couldn´t get it installed, but if you look a few posts up, i posted my settings for jack.

I do suggest you firstly register on the jacklab forum, and ask Metasymbol to ok your registration. (They seem to have had a difficult time with spammers, so he´s doing reg´s manually. Meta, if you read this, can you ok mine as well?)

Next, join the Jacklab IRC. There´s some good chaps there, and they will help. They certainly helped me.

A question.

Do you have wineasio installed?
Raphael very kindly posted a deb here of the latest wineasio release. After you have installed it, you will need to post the following line in a terminal, to ´register' wineasio with Jack.

regsvr32 wineasio.dll


Once that is done, Jack should see wineasio.

For ubuntu, there is a good webpage (google for UbuntuStudio Preparation) for setting up Jack/Alsa etc.. with all the settings required to get you started, and with good latency. Again, i´m not sure how this translates to Suse.

Woot, 404, Jack, Raphael, Dave and others have all contributed to this thread with some good info for setting up, and using Reaper in Linux. Can i suggest you read through the thread carefully, and take what you need.

As far as the Real time kernel goes, i´m not sure how to install it in Suse, but in ubuntu it´s simply a case of ¨sudo apt-get install linux-rt.¨ (I didn´t even have to do this, as the rt kernel is already built in ubuntustudio.)
Perhaps asking at the Jacklab fora and irc will help.



Alex.

p.s. Studio Dave posted a link for linux journal. A really useful source of info for linux Audio. I cannot recommend it enough for setting up and tweaking your system.
http://lad.linuxaudio.org/subscribe/lau.html
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Old 12-18-2007, 03:08 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daverich View Post
you need to adjust the audio prefs in wine to JACK only.

Then in reaper wineasio should be available if it's installed properly.

You adjust the latency by adjusting the buffer size in jack.

try 3x128 for starters.

There is a really good website online - google for it, about how to setup wineasio with reaper.

Kind regards

Dave Rich.
Dave, i´m ignorant enough in linux to be more of a potential hazard than a help, but i found if i select jack in wineconfig, i get no midi. Selecting Alsa worked for me just fine.

Eric, an additional thought.

In Jack, and i am assuming you are using qjackctl as the gui, you´ll see, on the right hand side of the first page (settings) input and output devices. I was important for me that i got this bit right, and carefully choose which HW device i would use. My usb midi kbd was listed there as well, and the first time i started jack, it crashed continually, until i figured this bit out.
In addition, setting the incorrect number of input and output channels (further down on the same page) according to the specs in your audio device caused it to crash as well.

Here is my Jack setup:



You will see on the right middle and lower the settings i have according to my sound device.

Here´s the Wine image.



Dave has given you good advice here too. My Jack setup is a result of a lot of tweaking and refining. If i load Linuxsampler with a full orchestral template as my sound ´engine´ for Reaper, then i adjust the frames to 128, or 256, and increase the buffer to 3. Still highly usable and a low low latency compared to my previous win setup, consistently.
For an initial setup, to get everything going, you may well find it useful to setup as follows:

512
44100
3

This should at least get you going with some decent playback.

Like any system, and i did all this with every win and mac os i had, it takes a little while to fine tune everything to a stable fast working environment.

Alex.
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Old 12-18-2007, 03:36 AM   #101
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Hi Alex,

concerning the number of I/O available (visible) to reaper via wineasio, simply create a file in your user (home) dir (right-click->'create new document'->'empty file') and call it ".wineasiocfg". Of course, without the quotes, but V E R Y important to put the leading dot in front. Then open it and just copy/paste:

Code:
ASIO_INPUTS=8
ASIO_OUTPUTS=2
into it. Adjust the numbers according to your available physical I/O capabilities. I have limited my I/O to 8/2 (of possible 12/10) atm, since when starting Reaper it autoconnects to all I/O.


@woodslanding:
You should definetely IRC the JAD team about your issues. I remember when trying Jacklab myself that it performed somehow (or significantly) better under e17, the default desktop. KDE, although apparently heavily optimised for the task at hand, is way more ressource hungry.

Btw, registering on the JackLab forum requires personal activation by metasymbol. So if you can't get past the captcha, IRC is your only way to get at him.

Hope that helps a little.

Cheers
Raphael
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Old 12-18-2007, 03:43 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkster1 View Post
Hi Alex,

concerning the number of I/O available (visible) to reaper via wineasio, simply create a file in your user (home) dir (right-click->'create new document'->'empty file') and call it ".wineasiocfg". Of course, without the quotes, but V E R Y important to put the leading dot in front. Then open it and just copy/paste:

Code:
ASIO_INPUTS=8
ASIO_OUTPUTS=2
into it. Adjust the numbers according to your available physical I/O capabilities. I have limited my I/O to 8/2 (of possible 12/10) atm, since when starting Reaper it autoconnects to all I/O.


@woodslanding:
You should definetely IRC the JAD team about your issues. I remember when trying Jacklab myself that it performed somehow (or significantly) better under e17, the default desktop. KDE, although apparently heavily optimised for the task at hand, is way more ressource hungry.

Btw, registering on the JackLab forum requires personal activation by metasymbol. So if you can't get past the captcha, IRC is your only way to get at him.

Hope that helps a little.

Cheers
Raphael
Thanks Raphael!

Excellent info, and appreciated. I´m off to try it now.

Cheers!

Alex.


Edit, works fine with the options reversed for me. Input 2, output 8. Thanks! Now i can concentrate on getting more midi ports sorted out.
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Old 12-18-2007, 04:04 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Stone View Post
Dave, i´m ignorant enough in linux to be more of a potential hazard than a help, but i found if i select jack in wineconfig, i get no midi. Selecting Alsa worked for me just fine.
Selecting Alsa is it, definetely.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Stone View Post
My usb midi kbd was listed there as well, and the first time i started jack, it crashed continually, until i figured this bit out.
In addition, setting the incorrect number of input and output channels (further down on the same page) according to the specs in your audio device caused it to crash as well.

Here is my Jack setup:

It is also important to note, that if you have more than one sound device, incl. USB-Audio or MIDI, you have to append a few lines to your "/etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base".

The ones I had to add were:
Code:
options snd-ice1712 index=0
options snd-usb-audio index=-2
This prevents the system from grabbing unwanted sounddevices on system start, or shuffling the order around.
snd-ice1712 is my Delta 1010LT, which I want to appear as hw:0, so it get's 'index=0'.
snd-usb-audio is my BCR2000, so in order to avoid that it gets positioned on hw:0 on the next system start, it gets 'index=-2", can also be 'index=1/2/3', whatever order you want it to appear. If you have enabled onboard sound, it has to be listed as well.
To find out what's in your box, type
Code:
lspci -v
into a terminal. All your hardware wil be nicely listed then.
Remember to open your alsa-base file as sudo
Code:
sudo gedit /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base
Replace 'gedit' with whatever name of your system's simple text editor ('kwrite' or 'kate' for kde, 'mousepad' for xfce4 etc.).

Hope that helps a little to further explore all the possibilities under linux for audio stuff/work.

Btw., on my old machine I haven't yet found a way to smoothly run Reaper, so I just use Rosegarden and Ardour instead. These also work nicely, and thanks to jack, even in sync if I want. But my app of choice is a little livelooper called 'Freewheeling'.
Since using this app creativity has come back to me, enjoying playing/recording again after a long time of frustration with all this DAW shit.
Someone here once wrote:
"When I had a 4-track, I was recording - now I only play around with plugins". Extend 'plugins to 'system configuration/optimization/what_have_you' and it's so true (at least for me).

Anyway.talk to you later guys, I gotta run now.

Raphael
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Old 12-18-2007, 09:09 AM   #104
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Hi Alex,
Then open it and just copy/paste:

Code:
ASIO_INPUTS=8
ASIO_OUTPUTS=2
into it.

Cheers
Raphael
THANKS!

I was actually waiting for FFADO because my onyx desk was only showing 2 inputs,- i figured I needed the new driver, but doing this and setting it to 16 gives me all 16 inputs available in reaper.

Sweeet!

This is hugely important for anyone whos trying to use wineasio to know....

Kind regards

Dave Rich
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:35 AM   #105
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Cool Dave,
I thought you were an old linux guy and surely knew about this.
Config. capability has been hacked into wineasio since 0.3.1 or so I think.

Glad I could help

Raphael
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Old 12-18-2007, 02:41 PM   #106
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Hey Thanks!

This is all really helpful info, much more specific than what I've found on either the JAD or UStudio pages.

I do have the realtime kernel running via JAD, and it installs wine and wineasio on my system. Those are up and running as far as I can tell.

Somewhere in this info I should be able to get correct settings.

I'll get off KDE once I get my basic hardware working. I just couldn't find ANY of the configuration stuff with the default desktop (and I wasn't a fan of the '72 Cadillac Eldorado/Hallmark christmas card look....)

I have no idea how IRC works--great: another technical hurdle!

I am being drug kicking and screaming into the 21st century....

Thanks all, you guys rock!
-eric
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:42 AM   #107
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In the ongoing journey of enthusiasm with linux, i´ve been researching a coupla things, and ask for advice and enlightenment.

Pulse Audio.

What´s it do, is it new, will it replace Alsa/Jack/anything, and is it a potential ´unifier' of linux audio options for the future? (Opinions freely accepted from those that know, lol.)


How do i create a deb package from source material?

Werner Schweer (forgive my spelling Werner, please, if this is wrong) is building a very interesting notation editor called Mscore ( a maturation into a seperate prog from his fine MusE program). It´s at 0.7 at the moment, but later development is in svn, and i´m interested in finding out how far this clever chap has got. Alternatively, if someone, who knows how to do this, could build a deb (for ubuntustudio gutsy) from the svn/source (?) it would be very much appreciated. I´m somewhat frustrated that i can´t get my head around this at the moment, and lack the skills to do this without messing up my current setup which has been really stable, and frankly, really enjoyable to use. (If it aint broke...)
I enjoy the bleeding edge as much as the next explorer, but i´ve got most things singing now, and i´m writing a shedload of stuff, so i don´t want to f**k it up...

And...
If i install a package that gets started from the terminal (Mscore, etc...), how can i stick an icon on the top bar somewhere, so i can just click it and go? I apologise in advance to the experienced tuxettes for whom the concept of ´pictures´ is akin to sacrilege. I can´t help it, i´m new at this...

For those who are interested, Linuxsampler is hammering along nicely, using a new memlock setting of 2.156GB of memory (from a total of 4gb installed). I might be doing something technically wrong here, but it works, and i´m happy with that, so i think that will do for now. I yearn for the lS chaps (including Rui and his supernatural, stable, pleasant looking, Qsampler gui. Go Rui,go ...)to increase the channel count.

(Please chaps, we don´t all write just chamber or shopping centre elevator music, lol.)

Again, as an addition to the lS enjoyment, i have a further question.

How do i set the maximum number of voices in lS?

I hit a full tutti in a piece recently (I did say i was enjoying myself..) with a shedload of samples going at the same time, and briefly saw a message that went along the lines of.... ´i´m starting to run out of voices here Alex. Don´t be a complete dork, and gimme some more resources to work with, or i´ll spit all over that old fashioned crap you´re writing...´ Is there a config file somewhere i can rampage and pillage?

Next question.

Alsa. I have 4 ´virtual´ timidity ports in Alsa (and i´m using the latest safe build in the ubuntu repository, what ever that is.). Ok, i can dig that.

They show up in Reaper, and other spots, including Jack. Ok, still digging it.

And lS really steps up here (as i am rapidly coming to expect from this fine package), with the ports i ´build' in lS options/devices, showing up in other programs. So far, other progs outside of wine environment will see every port i build. (Using Jack for Audio, and Alsa for midi.)

(And it was a singularly salutary moment, when i built 20 midiports in one device in ls, and they all showed up in another program in pure linux through Jack, another fine component. I had a quiet sip of decent cognac, because for the first time in my computer/audio/compositional history, i was able to assign a dedicated port to each instrument/section in the orchestra without having to juggle. Some of you may appreciate how deeply, deeply, fulfilling that was. As if Classicalwriting on a box was finally being taken seriously.)

But, programmes in wine remain problematic at the moment. Alsa, as shown in the wine config device tab, will only allow me to use, and ´see´ 12 ports max. I will admit i don´t quite understand this, given my unadulterated delight with the freedom of pure linux as an audio package.

And i´m getting rather impatient to bring all this together, and be able to see unlimited ports in Reaper, so i can, well, see above for cognac inducing moments....

If anyone can help with this, it would be appreciated.

Is there an additional virtual port(s) i can ´trick' wine/alsa into seeing? I understand enough to know that virtual midi ports in alsa are represented as hardware ports, but after that i´m swimming up a piranha infested river sans protective codpiece as far as knowledge goes.
Or, in case i´m seeing this from the wrong doorway, how do i increase the number of midi ports visible and useable in wine/wineasio?

I´ve been a little expressive here i know, but i am rather enjoying myself with linux/Reaper/Ls, etc...and tend to enthusiasm when that happens.


Alex.

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Old 12-20-2007, 05:47 PM   #108
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Hi Alex,
I guess I can't be very helpful in your quest for more MIDI ports, as I don't know jack neither.

But I can try to create a deb package for you re: Mscore.

Re: Pulse Audio - as far as I understand it, it's gonna replace the 'Arts' or 'OSS' sound-servers, which only concern system sounds and such things. Nothing to do with Alsa/Jack.

But Pulse Audio is able to play back more than one audiostream at any given time, which is not the case with Arts and OSS. These older sound-servers can only playback 1 source; you can't be listening to some websounds at the same time as trying to listen to some mp3's from your HD ie.
With Pulse-Audio it is possible.

Cheers
Raphael
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:23 PM   #109
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Well, I've corrected a number of problems, but reaper is still not happy in JAD. It takes reaper about a minute to display the gui on startup, and it can play about 5 seconds of 'brad' before siezing up.

I properly installed it into wine from the installer exe (wow, is that ever clever) but that didn't help.

I ran winecfg, and changed to winXP, and set the driver to jack, but that didn't help. Set the driver to ALSA, that didn't help

I turned 'soft' and 'rt' on and off in jack. I boosted the latency up to 100ms, no real difference....

I've tried 'duplex' and output only on my sound card. I've got two soundcards, a hammerfall pcmcia (which I don't have the breakout box handy for, so I'm not testing yet) and the onboard ac 97, which is what I'm trying to use. Neither has come or gone since I installed linux, so I don't see how they could be getting confused.

Under xp and asio4all, this card was running big sessions in reaper just fine with 25 ms latency.

I'm stumped for the moment. I guess I'll try the hammerfall next. Maybe it will be better supported in that scenario....

Still trying to get on the jad forum.... I haven't tried to research and install an irc client yet. I barely know what it is!

cheers,
e
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:33 PM   #110
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Ahh, a clue!!!

I'm not seeing 'wineasio_jack_client' in my connections panel.

Maybe I don't have wineasio running. Does it not start automatically with Jack?

Another clue--I'm seeing several entries for the AC 97 audio card in the input and output dropdown menus in the jack configuration settings window. I've tried all different combinations, but maybe it's a problem just that there are additional entries at all?? Anybody else seen this?
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Old 12-21-2007, 03:01 AM   #111
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Well, I've corrected a number of problems, but reaper is still not happy in JAD. It takes reaper about a minute to display the gui on startup, and it can play about 5 seconds of 'brad' before siezing up.
For what it's worth, I get reaper running well on my laptop (under kubuntu) a dothan 1.6GHz with the built in soundcard and with an rme cardbus/multiface. My P4 3GHz is a different story. Long delays loading plugins, graphic redraws are slow as molasses, and it can't really play brad sucks...

I think it's a hardware issue with the p4. I'm getting a quad next year, and hope to finally get reaper running under linux...
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Old 12-21-2007, 09:44 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Stone View Post
Pulse Audio.

What´s it do, is it new, will it replace Alsa/Jack/anything, and is it a potential ´unifier' of linux audio options for the future? (Opinions freely accepted from those that know, lol.)
PulseAudio is YASS, i.e. yet another sound server. Its specs look good. Many packages have good specs but don't get accepted into mainstream usage. We can only wait and see what happens with it.

It's not a replacement for ALSA or Jack.

The Wine guys rightly want a single-server solution. As long as Pulse Audio supports ALSA and Jack, I'm not unhappy.

Btw, the Linux sound system breaks down like this: ALSA is the low-level basic soundcore stuff. It includes the kernel sound module, soundcard/chipset drivers, a library for applications developers, and many utilities. JACK, artsd, esd, PortAudio, PulseAudio, et al, are sound servers that depend on ALSA.

There is also a middle layer of interesting software that is not directly considered by the user. This layer includes things like libsndfile, libsoundtouch, libsamplerate, etc., all of which provide extended services and functions to programs that use them.

Quote:
How do i create a deb package from source material?
You look up "how to create deb package" on Google.

Quote:
Werner Schweer (forgive my spelling Werner, please, if this is wrong) is building a very interesting notation editor called Mscore ( a maturation into a seperate prog from his fine MusE program). It´s at 0.7 at the moment, but later development is in svn, and i´m interested in finding out how far this clever chap has got. Alternatively, if someone, who knows how to do this, could build a deb (for ubuntustudio gutsy) from the svn/source (?) it would be very much appreciated. I´m somewhat frustrated that i can´t get my head around this at the moment, and lack the skills to do this without messing up my current setup which has been really stable, and frankly, really enjoyable to use. (If it aint broke...)
Alas, I'm not running Ubuntu. Best thing is to contact the ubuntustudio maintainers and lobby for an up-to-date package. Alternately you can ask on a related forum if a user would be so kind to package a build.

Quote:
I enjoy the bleeding edge as much as the next explorer, but i´ve got most things singing now, and i´m writing a shedload of stuff, so i don´t want to f**k it up...
This is wisdom.

Quote:
If i install a package that gets started from the terminal (Mscore, etc...), how can i stick an icon on the top bar somewhere, so i can just click it and go?
It depends on the desktop. A Google search for "desktop icons linux" turned up some promising HOWTOs.

Quote:
I yearn for the lS chaps (including Rui and his supernatural, stable, pleasant looking, Qsampler gui. Go Rui,go ...)to increase the channel count.
Just ask 'em.

Quote:
How do i set the maximum number of voices in lS?
I checked through some LSCP scripts in hopes of finding some such variable, but got no joy. Is it possible there's no hard-wired limit ? Better ask Christian or Rui.

Quote:
Alsa, as shown in the wine config device tab, will only allow me to use, and ´see´ 12 ports max. I will admit i don´t quite understand this, given my unadulterated delight with the freedom of pure linux as an audio package.
I was going to advise reloading the virmidi module with more ports, but it seems that the ALSA developers have limited the number to just four. I also tried simply creating more instances of virmidi, but that didn't work for me either. There ought ought be some way to leverage virmidi to do what you want, I'll look further into this problem.

(Update): I did add another virmidi card by using the yast2 system configuration tool for JAD 1.0. I now have eight virtual MIDI ports listed in QJackCtl. Presumably I could just keep adding virtual cards for as many ports as I want.

Quote:
Is there an additional virtual port(s) i can ´trick' wine/alsa into seeing? ...
Or, in case i´m seeing this from the wrong doorway, how do i increase the number of midi ports visible and useable in wine/wineasio?
See above.

Quote:
i am rather enjoying myself with linux/Reaper/Ls, etc...and tend to enthusiasm when that happens.
Moi aussi.

Last edited by StudioDave; 12-21-2007 at 09:58 AM. Reason: update re: virmidi
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Old 12-21-2007, 10:32 AM   #113
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Cheers Alex,

I haven't succeeded in building the mscore-0.8.0 package, despite the fact I'm having all required libs 'n packages installed.
I keep getting errors that the make process can't find CMAKE-2.4, even though it IS installed here.
So I guess you'd best contact Werner Schweer directly, so that he can maybe guide you through or build a deb directly for you.
His dev environment is kubuntu 7.04, so it should be all well if he's willing to help you.

I'm sorry I can't help you more than this.

Regards
Raphael
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Old 12-21-2007, 10:58 AM   #114
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Raph, i thank you for making the effort to build mscore. If you´re having a challenge with this, i am fairly confident i would have been completely lost at this stage. I´ll email Werner, and see what he says, but i am a little reluctant to disturb him in the middle of coding this prog.

Dave, thanks for the input, and yes, after giving google a good thrashing, i did find some useful info. Appreciate the heads up, lol, and i did get the message. Sometimes it´s knowing which question to ask...

And, making a desktop icon was absurdly easy after that. I have a motley collection of miserable looking icons representing command line progs now.

Very interested in your efforts at virmidi. It was only this morning i figured out how to add virmidi to alsa modules, and am now the proud owner of 4 more virtual midi ports.
I have a question at this point, and i ask this with a certain caution about messing up my now reasonably tuned system. (Including a brand spanking new backport update of Jack that works well.)

If alsa accepts as a hardware virtual card, 4 midi ports at a time, how would i name further ´cards´ in a manner that would be accepted by Alsa/Jack/Wine? Can i simply implant further modules with virmidi1, virmidi2, etc?

Another question about Jack midi, and the midi button in the bottom left hand corner of the qjackctl gui. (It has three options, none, raw, and seq.) I tried using this today, and jack would not start. Do you know if this been implemented yet, or do i need to configure something else to get this running? This is fairly obviously related to the ongoing search for more midi ports for reaper, but i do fear that wine is configured with a midi port limit that may prevent me from unleashing a full blown, near naked, fair maiden plundering, midi nirvana, into a poor unsuspecting Reaper. (Which is, as an aside, smooth as silk in ubs. I still cannot believe how well it runs outside of its ´normal'environment...)
I´ve been to the jacklab forum, but there doesn´t seem to be much info on this.

I thank you and the other wizards here for the input gents. I´d still be trying to install all this without the help you´ve given. It is MUCH appreciated.

Cheers!

Alex.

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Last edited by Alex Stone; 12-21-2007 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 12-21-2007, 11:39 AM   #115
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re: building MScore

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Originally Posted by funkster1 View Post
I keep getting errors that the make process can't find CMAKE-2.4, even though it IS installed here.
Where is it located ? The configuration routine may expect it in only one location, e.g. /usr/bin but not in /usr/local/bin.
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Old 12-21-2007, 12:03 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by woodslanding View Post
This happened to me the first time I installed it. There is a page in the installer with some confusing graphics, something like this:

[_] Audio Apps
[_] Multimedia
[_] Video apps
[_] Desktop

etc.

The spaces between the brackets need to have asterisks put in them. I think with the arrow keys and spacebar?? I sort of forget. But don't press enter here until you have asterisks next to everything! I complained on the ubuntu forums about this--glad to see I wasn't the only one confused.

What installer defaults with everything OFF????

This way you will get a desktop AND some applications. Not that you're out of the woods, but at least you know you are IN the woods.
Aaaaah yes. Got it going now (I'm typing this from my new UbuntuStudio install). Thank you, and yes it's weird that it would default to everything "off", even weirder that it would go "next" when pressing "enter" while "next" isn't even highlighted...

Anyways, the important thing is that it works now, and work smoother than my last Linux trial.
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Old 12-21-2007, 01:40 PM   #117
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Alex, thanks for starting this thread!
Thank you to all the contributors!
I love this community and this is one of my favourite discussions.
what fun!

Many Holiday Greetings
.tallis
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Old 12-21-2007, 04:36 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StudioDave View Post
re: building MScore

Where is it located ? The configuration routine may expect it in only one location, e.g. /usr/bin but not in /usr/local/bin.
Cheers Dave,

If it did expect a certain location, could I simply create some symlinks in those different folders where apps seem to look for their executable? I.e. creating symlinks in /usr/bin, /usr/local/bin, /usr/sbin etc?

I'll have another look at it in the next week or so, because I still have some work to do and it's christmas time after all. Meaning I won't (don't wanna) spend all my time on the PC. Beside, girl friend wouldn't be very happy if I did.

@Alex:
I'm absolutely no crack at linux (not yet at least *lol*), so I think you could have done as well (or worse/same) as me.
You seem pretty determined to persevere in your Linux-Audio adventure.
In all source packages you can always find a README, where the steps to building are generally roughly or well explained, incl commands to issue in a terminal.
So just keep going and experimenting.
Maybe it'll be a good idea to image your linux system now that it's running reasonably well for you. So you could continue to try out stuff and come back to a prior state if you f**k things up.*lol*

My copy of Acronis True Image i.e. is well capable to also image my Linux systems/partitions and also correctly restore them, not only Windows.

Merry X-Mas to ya all once again.

Raphael
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Old 12-21-2007, 04:48 PM   #119
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Cheers Dave,

If it did expect a certain location, could I simply create some symlinks in those different folders where apps seem to look for their executable? I.e. creating symlinks in /usr/bin, /usr/local/bin, /usr/sbin etc?
You could also edit the makefile!
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Old 12-21-2007, 05:23 PM   #120
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You could also edit the makefile!
Cheers Jack,
thanks a lot for this tip. That's good to know.

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