Old 01-09-2017, 12:00 PM   #121
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I think they need to be super-detailed but only turned on/off per item.

I'd rarely want to look at more than one item at a time using that.

So that should help with performance.
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:07 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine View Post
Ooh, definitely the first two, although if the processing is done on generation and stored similar to a peaks file with the peaks, surely it's only down to memory if you go mad with this in you arrange view?

Allow (re)generating these per item/take and at a user requested depth/resolution per item/take and it starts getting useful... ie bung them on at general resolution and wind the bands/depth up on those that need a closer look; allow a fadeable peak waveform overlay and this starts being a useful editing tool rather than a novelty.

Suddenly REAPER could have two very useful new display modes: spectral peaks and spectrogram fill. Please don't dismiss this as merely a pretty novelty Justin, this could be something good...
>
Agreed! That's pretty much how I feel if we did get it.

Some kind of frequency editing so we can erase using a 2d marque tool would be the icing on the cake and certainly be cheaper than RX for most people's need!
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:12 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
Agreed! That's pretty much how I feel if we did get it.

Some kind of frequency editing so we can erase using a 2d marque tool would be the icing on the cake and certainly be cheaper than RX for most people's need!
Did you know audacity has spectral editing?

http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/s...selection.html
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:47 PM   #124
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OK I lied about "pick two", I don't think it's actually accurate.

Here's one:

High quality peaks when zoomed-out vs huge .ReaPeaks files (anywhere from 4-10x bigger than normal)?

and

High quality peaks when zoomed-in vs slow slow.

Spectral editing sounds nice but it doesn't really fit in with REAPER's ethos, from what I can tell. We could probably get Stillwell(Schwa) Spectro to add support for pulling audio from the track the way ReaTune can... which might make sense.
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:48 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by mrlimbic View Post
Did you know audacity has spectral editing?

http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/s...selection.html
I didn't no but that's good for people to know

I use RX when needed but a free or cheap option is always great!
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:59 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post

Spectral editing sounds nice but it doesn't really fit in with REAPER's ethos, from what I can tell.
If it's the "non destructive editing" part about Reaper's ethos, just make it always work on a copy of the source media...
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Old 01-09-2017, 01:02 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenakios View Post
If it's the "non destructive editing" part about Reaper's ethos, just make it always work on a copy of the source media...
eh? spectral editing is non-destructive if you simply do things in realtime. Spectral editing, like a drawing a box, would be exactly like using ReaFIR at certain times with certain spectral curves, it's not complicated. ReaFIR is efficient enough for many realtime edits, which won't be happening all at once anyway.
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Old 01-09-2017, 01:12 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argitoth View Post
eh? spectral editing is non-destructive if you simply do things in realtime. Spectral editing, like a drawing a box, would be exactly like using ReaFIR at certain times with certain spectral curves, it's not complicated. ReaFIR is efficient enough for many realtime edits, which won't be happening all at once anyway.
Right, but I was starting here from the assumption, that wouldn't need to hold, that the spectral editing would be "destructive".
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Old 01-09-2017, 01:17 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
We could probably get Stillwell(Schwa) Spectro to add support for pulling audio from the track the way ReaTune can... which might make sense.
That could be a useful way of doing it and also lead to other useful scripts/plugins too.

I do agree with Xenakios though that like all these things, if they are always done on a copy of the source then "no harm done"

I really hope ARA gets a look into too at some point as that's also next level in powerful editing and I'm sure quite a lot of (or enough) people have melodyne here too.
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:41 AM   #130
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@Justin, in FLstudio's edison - there is a "natural scale" option for spectrum view which make it very easy determain the main spectrum area of the each sound.

you can see in the screeny, the first and the last one are obviously treble sounds.
while the second is a low kick with high attack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflected View Post
spectrum settings..
can be really useful using "natural scale".
when zooming in it gives detailed information. .

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Old 01-11-2017, 07:50 PM   #131
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Please allow resizing of the "Peaks Display Settings" window.

This window uses the "Track Title Font" from the "Theme color/font settings"
options, which causes the text to overlap from adjacent frequency ranges when
using larger fonts (ex: anything over 8 with Ariel font.)

A slightly larger default window size would help reduce overlaps as well.

Otherwise, it's great! Thanks for this feature!!
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Old 01-11-2017, 08:17 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Spectral editing sounds nice but it doesn't really fit in with REAPER's ethos, from what I can tell. We could probably get Stillwell(Schwa) Spectro to add support for pulling audio from the track the way ReaTune can... which might make sense.
I would like this very much.
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Old 01-14-2017, 03:20 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeroephonics View Post
Please allow resizing of the "Peaks Display Settings" window...
That's the one thing I hope gets added before the official 5.32 release (or if not, in the next pre).
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Old 01-14-2017, 03:34 AM   #134
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Not totally sure but I thought I read something about an improvement in this regard with one of the latest RC versions...
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Old 01-14-2017, 04:05 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Spectral editing sounds nice but it doesn't really fit in with REAPER's ethos, from what I can tell. We could probably get Stillwell(Schwa) Spectro to add support for pulling audio from the track the way ReaTune can... which might make sense.
+1, this could be great !
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Old 01-14-2017, 06:44 AM   #136
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experimentong a bit with spectral API with a Lua script for de-essing using spectral peaks data
still very raw and unoptimized.. but I was happy haha
combining tonality and pitch data, it can also be used for de-breather. It works better than I expected. Maybe I should continue working on it and make a GUI to adjust parameters etc.
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Old 01-14-2017, 07:04 AM   #137
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Awesome work Heda!

Indeed, they are so easy to see now in spectral peak mode so having this automated would be awesome!
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Old 01-14-2017, 08:57 AM   #138
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HeDa , this is just awesome !
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Old 01-16-2017, 08:15 AM   #139
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.. for RX2 files? (both slices and 'single loopable media item)
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Old 01-16-2017, 09:07 AM   #140
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Good work heda, parameters adjusting would be good!

Perhaps enter 'highlight areas of similar pitch/tonality?' territory?
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Old 01-17-2017, 02:58 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
We've actually done a bit of experimentation with this too:



(thankfully the spectropeaks development included a lot of common work which will make extending the displays easier in the future)

And it mostly works, but to be honest to get any real value (other than "that's neat!") you really have to make this feature deep -- provide a lot of controls and customizability.

Also, these qualities are desired:
  • provide a lot of precision and information (the above graphs have 128 bands and are pretty much useless IMO)
  • speed
  • support all kinds of media

Choose two.
How about a dockable window to give a detailed spectral view of the selected track (only 1). understandable if that isn't compatible with free item positioning.
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Old 01-18-2017, 03:40 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heda View Post
experimentong a bit with spectral API with a Lua script for de-essing using spectral peaks data
still very raw and unoptimized.. but I was happy haha
combining tonality and pitch data, it can also be used for de-breather. It works better than I expected. Maybe I should continue working on it and make a GUI to adjust parameters etc.
This looks awesome Heda ! I hope you will share it soon
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Old 01-18-2017, 06:10 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heda View Post
experimentong a bit with spectral API with a Lua script for de-essing using spectral peaks data
still very raw and unoptimized.. but I was happy haha
combining tonality and pitch data, it can also be used for de-breather. It works better than I expected. Maybe I should continue working on it and make a GUI to adjust parameters etc.
Ooh My, this is so great !
Please,please, keep on working this beautiful feature !
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:06 AM   #144
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I can't get spectral peaks to work on any builds beyond v5.32pre3,
including the public build of v5.32. Anything on or after v5.32pre4
and spectral peaks do not work. I confirmed this by rolling backward
and forward through previous builds kept in the /old folder on LoL.

Can anyone else confirm this?

An additional peak-related problem which might relate to this problem:
I tested this on my laptop, which has had a peak-display bug since
I've owned it (this problem is in addition to the spectral
peak problem.)

If I zoom all the way into the peaks, then zoom out with the
mousewheel to zoom-out state #26, all peaks disappear
(regardless of spectral-ness). This is an old issue I never reported
on, but ONLY happens on this laptop, not my DAW PC.

I haven't tested my DAW PC with any spectral peak builds, so I can't
tell if the spectral peak problem occurs on it.

Thanks!
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:07 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heda View Post
I was happy haha
combining tonality and pitch data, it can also be used for de-breather.
Can you access the spectral data (of a set of samples) from a script via some API ?

-Michael

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Old 01-18-2017, 07:17 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeroephonics View Post
I can't get spectral peaks to work on any builds beyond v5.32pre3,
including the public build of v5.32. Anything on or after v5.32pre4
and spectral peaks do not work. I confirmed this by rolling backward
and forward through previous builds kept in the /old folder on LoL.
Have you tried rebuilding all peaks?
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:23 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Have you tried rebuilding all peaks?
Yes. Rebuilding peaks doesn't change anything. Just to make sure, just now I
switched from v5.32pre3 to v5.32pre4. Pre3 spectral peaks work but Pre4 don't.
Both pre3 and pre4 retain the '[x] show spectral peaks' option in the
'Peaks Display Settings' window when installing between versions.
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:25 AM   #148
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Try deleting all reapeaks files instead of rebuilding and see what happens.
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:32 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Try deleting all reapeaks files instead of rebuilding and see what happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeroephonics
I can't get spectral peaks to work on any builds beyond v5.32pre3,
including the public build of v5.32.
Thanks, ED! I I got spectral peaks to work on this machine and it was user error!
I defined a path for peak data, but the path didn't exist on this machine.
Matching the defined path and creating that path solved this issue.

Sorry for the false alarm, Schwa!
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:34 AM   #150
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And there is also a, prevent spectral peaks, with-in the track performance options (right mouse on mcp) (or action), maby made an oopsy there?

Edit: Well doh!!, what a timing.
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:13 AM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Can you access the spectral data (of a set of samples) from a script via some API ?

-Michael
The pitch detection and tonality level can be accessed with a new API that was added with the spectral peaks.

If you want full spectral analysis data, you will need to implement that yourself with the AudioAccessor and FFT APIs.
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Old 01-18-2017, 11:07 AM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenakios View Post
The pitch detection and tonality level can be accessed with a new API that was added with the spectral peaks.
That is just great !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenakios View Post
If you want full spectral analysis data, you will need to implement that yourself with the AudioAccessor and FFT APIs.
It's obvious that the peak file does not hold the complete spectrum (otherwise it would need to be just as big as the appropriate wave file, as the Fourier transform preserves all information

Reaper Rocks !!!

-Michael
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Old 01-18-2017, 11:14 AM   #153
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I believe it is, REAPER rocks;
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Old 01-19-2017, 07:14 PM   #154
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sorry if this was already discussed, but can we have the "View : Show peaks display settings" (42074) as a toggle? it seems i can have multiples of that opened as i try to toggle on/off

per item function would be the best, imo.

thanks a lot!
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Old 01-20-2017, 03:05 AM   #155
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Default Scripters question/request.

So now that we can affect waveforms based on colour..

What about a script that use a "colour picker" tool (like photoshop etc) to allow you to pick a colour in any waveform (or find the same colour pattern of notes) and then do certain things to it like the below..

1. Search for other waves that have areas of the same colour or maybe even same pattern of colours (for finding phrases). (also handy for finding same pitches etc)

2. Cut (or just split) other areas in the same item out if they are the same colour (could be useful creatively)

3. Copy these same coloured areas to new track (good for sending certain notes or just transients to effects)

4. Pull them down in volume with an item volume envelope for de'ssing (heda has started this but not the colour picker bit I think)

5. Find dialogue from the same actor based on pitch range (this could work on averages.)

The sky is the limit! The main thing is the colour picking bit


Of course. It will have to be aware of how you have the octave function set up too but would be amazingly useful!
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Old 01-20-2017, 04:24 AM   #156
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Yes, yes, please!

I don't understand why Justin feels spectral selection shouldn't be in REAPER. It's the greatest feature in years of audio manipulation on computers. Audacity has it, fi.

When you need to do surgical edits, it's a godsend. I used it to pick a digital transmission out of a bad radio recording, fi. Not exactly audio, but it would have been impossible [on the computer] otherwise.
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Old 01-20-2017, 04:34 AM   #157
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Cyrano. Good news!

Justin has said that the new spectrogram view will potentially have spectral editing later on but might take a while
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Old 01-20-2017, 05:01 AM   #158
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That's wonderful. I don't care if it takes time. Good things take time...

Thanks, Justin, Schwa and everybody else! My weekend is good.

Reminder @self: don't get too drunk tonight.
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Old 01-20-2017, 05:20 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflected View Post
@Justin, in FLstudio's edison - there is a "natural scale" option for spectrum view which make it very easy determain the main spectrum area of the each sound.

you can see in the screeny, the first and the last one are obviously treble sounds.
while the second is a low kick with high attack.
A picture is worth a thousand words, that looks very useful and "natural"...

I use RX a lot so feel right at home with spectral peaks.

RX has these for FFT settings, maybe there's some useful ideas here. I generally use adaptive but multi-resolution does make a big improvement for LF.

Quote:
Auto-adjustable STFT: this mode automatically adjusts FFT size (i.e. time and frequency resolution of a Spectrogram) according to the zoom level. For example, if you zoom in horizontally (time) you'll see that percussive sounds and transients will be more clearly defined. When you zoom in vertically (frequency), you'll see individual musical notes and frequency events will appear more clearly defined.

Multi-resolution: this mode calculates the Spectrogram with better frequency resolution at low frequencies and better time resolution at high frequencies. This mimics psychoacoustic properties of our perception, allowing the Spectrogram display to show you the most important information clearly.

Adaptively sparse: this mode automatically varies the time and frequency resolution of the Spectrogram to achieve the best Spectrogram sharpness in every area of the time-frequency plane. This often lets you see the most details for a thorough analysis, but it's the slowest mode to calculate.
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Old 01-24-2017, 10:31 AM   #160
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Regarding the prospects of spectrograph editing...

Would something like a Photoshop lasso tool be out of the question?
This would mean spectrum selections wouldn't be restricted to rectangular shapes. You could create any selection shape of your liking.

This has the following benefits:
- Boost/attenuate noise whose decay characteristics aren't linear across all frequencies (ex: low frequencies decaying longer than treble frequencies.) You could draw around the extended low frequencies as well as the treble frequencies. This lasso selection example would look like an upper-case "L".

- Sound design for complex timbral editing

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Magical selection tool like in Photoshop to auto-select signals above (or below) a definable threshold amplitude. This would also be good for sound design and noise reduction.

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For rectangular selections:


Definable fade-in and fade-out times
for boosts/attenuations for spectral selection start and end positions (left and right sides of rectangular selection)
- either ganged or independent fade times for each side, with media item-like curves vie right-click menu

Definable bandwidth/Q
for attenuations/boosts on spectral selections like a parametric EQ) (top and bottom sides of rectangular selection)

I think the lasso tool should have only one definable fade curve or else things get messy and confusing quickly.
__________________
Please check out these MIDI requests: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=103192
Thanks.
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