Reaper and Garritan-LONG

[davecan]

Hi,

I've been using Reaper for about 4 years with no real issues until now (although I suspect it's not really a Reaper issue)...
Anyway, about a month ago I bought the Garritan Jazz and Big band VST program. It was simple enough to get working in Reaper and the sounds are much better than the free VST's I was using for horns, but a weird, inconsistent issue has popped up..

Some background...
I am a "one man band" - I play guitar and sing, and I've created backing tracks in Reaper - most backing tracks are just bass and drums (ez-drummer), but some songs definitely sound better with horns added. To save time, I usually start with a midi song file that I either buy or find free online. I'll edit the parts, change the key if necessary, etc, all to suit my needs.

I then render the tracks to MP3, put them on my iPad and play them through the StudioMini app.

The Garritan plug in works fine, most of the time, but sometimes when I render I get either an empty file or, if I have 3 separate horn tracks maybe I'll only get one or two of them. Note that - while in Reaper - I can play and hear all the tracks simultaneously (and alone) without any issues. But when I render, only some or none make it to the mp3. Rendering one track at a time doesn't help either. But for some songs, everything renders just fine (even some songs with 3 or 4 horn parts).

I've checked to see if any settings look different on the "bad" songs, nothing I can see. I've even deleted tracks and started over - same result. I've also changed Garritan instruments - say from one trumpet to another - same result. Changing channels doesn't seem to matter either. Weird and frustrating.

I suspect it has more to do with Garritan, but I wondered if anyone here has come across this and or might have any suggestions???

Here is my basic setup: Lenovo laptop, i5, 8gb ram, Win7 Pro.

Thanks for reading...
Dave

[dea-man]

Probably need to know how you have things set up.

Are you recording midi, or audio?

Are you using folders?

Little more detail, please.

[davecan]

Originally Posted by dea-man

Probably need to know how you have things set up.

Are you recording midi, or audio?

Are you using folders?

Little more detail, please.

I'm not sure I understand, but I'll try. I'm not usually recording any audio (occasionally I'll record myself playing bass, but not too often). I take a midi track - pre-recorded - and import it into Reaper and add my own VST instruments as FX. I make sure the midi notes are on the same channel as the instrument I add (I don't see an option in Garritan to send to all channels). I usually edit it manually (I suck at keyboard). It plays in Reaper - I can hear the music, so something is working right. When I render I am trying to create an audio file, either a wav or mp3 (same problem with both).

When you say folders, what do you mean? There usually aren't any audio files besides the rendered tracks, so the reaper projects are quite small. I render to a separate folder from the projects and that one does have a ton of mp3's in it, but I didn't think that would be an issue. Could it be??

[TimOBrien]

(been a little while since I used it and that was with my windsynth...)

JABB wants to use the mod wheel (#CC1) to initiate note volume, or you'll sometimes get silence.
Also there are keyswitches that are fiddly.

Perhaps it's not picking up the settings it needs and is dropping out.

[davecan]

Originally Posted by TimOBrien

(been a little while since I used it and that was with my windsynth...)

JABB wants to use the mod wheel (#CC1) to initiate note volume, or you'll sometimes get silence.
Also there are keyswitches that are fiddly.

Perhaps it's not picking up the settings it needs and is dropping out.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, the mod wheel is an issue with JABB - I ran into that on a couple of songs - the track will play until the mod wheel is engaged, and then volume won't come back up. I got around it by removing the mod wheel effects... for my use it's ok, but I could see where it could be a big problem if you really need the effect. But in that case, I couldn't hear the track playing in Reaper.

In my rendering issue, I can actually hear the horns when playing in Reaper. But when it renders, nothing makes it to "tape". I also tried "Apply track FX as new take" and I get a flatline.

Maybe it has something to do with keyswitches? IDK. I'm not a midi expert, by any means, just trying to get the tool to work.

I just hate to think I can't use this JABB - it was relatively cheap, but still not that cheap, especially if I have to buy something else.

[nofish]

Just a shot in the dark, but...

Regarding your rendering problems, try Options -> Preferences -> Plugins -> VST
enable "Inform plug-ins of offline rendering state" (if it wasn't enabled already anyway)

[davecan]

Originally Posted by nofish

Just a shot in the dark, but...

Regarding your rendering problems, try Options -> Preferences -> Plugins -> VST
enable "Inform plug-ins of offline rendering state" (if it wasn't enabled already anyway)

Thanks, checked the setting - it was not enabled, so I did it, then restarted Reaper... same result. Damn.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by davecan

Thanks, checked the setting - it was not enabled, so I did it, then restarted Reaper... same result. Damn.

Hi Dave, It's pretty late for me so I have to be brief. I have a feeling it's probably mostly your routing that may be a problem.

I have JABB although I haven't used it a lot. Still I've never had any problems with it.

Personally I never use folders for something like this, I use sub-busses instead.

All my midi tracks are in the TCP and the JABB VSTi and it's outputs are in the MCP. Some people don't like this arrangement but for me it works extremely well. I do this with Kontakt as well.

[nofish]

Yeah, damn. But worth a try...

[davecan]

Originally Posted by Tod

Hi Dave, It's pretty late for me so I have to be brief. I have a feeling it's probably mostly your routing that may be a problem.

I have JABB although I haven't used it a lot. Still I've never had any problems with it.

Personally I never use folders for something like this, I use sub-busses instead.

All my midi tracks are in the TCP and the JABB VSTi and it's outputs are in the MCP. Some people don't like this arrangement but for me it works extremely well. I do this with Kontakt as well.

I'm not sure how to use sub busses, but I'm willing to try, if you walk me through it. Here is a short video showing some of the settings and the problem. The interesting thing is, when you hear the mp3 at the end, the very first note seems to have all 3 horns, but it gets cut off, then you just get one horn the rest of the way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3-8kKrsONU

[Tod]

Originally Posted by davecan

I'm not sure how to use sub busses, but I'm willing to try, if you walk me through it. Here is a short video showing some of the settings and the problem. The interesting thing is, when you hear the mp3 at the end, the very first note seems to have all 3 horns, but it gets cut off, then you just get one horn the rest of the way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3-8kKrsONU

Hi Dave, it's hard to tell exactly what's going on because we don't know what your routing is.

However, if your sure you have all the outputs routed to the MASTER then try Rendering at Online Rendering speed to see what you get. It's better to render midi that way.

Also at the bottom of the Render to File dialog box is a check box for adding the file to your project so you don't have to load it.

[davecan]

Originally Posted by Tod

Hi Dave, it's hard to tell exactly what's going on because we don't know what your routing is.

However, if your sure you have all the outputs routed to the MASTER then try Rendering at Online Rendering speed to see what you get. It's better to render midi that way.

Also at the bottom of the Render to File dialog box is a check box for adding the file to your project so you don't have to load it.

Thanks for the tips Tod. Everything seems to be routed correctly, I tried to render at Online Speed... thought that was gonna do it, but no joy. I'm digging through all the settings. Since it's intermittent - some songs are fine, it could be some subtle thing in the bad songs...I did get the basic tracks from a few different sources and maybe there is some obscure/hidden setting messing it up?? IDK. Pulling my hair out (and I don't have too much hair to pull!)

[Tod]

Originally Posted by davecan

Thanks for the tips Tod. Everything seems to be routed correctly, I tried to render at Online Speed... thought that was gonna do it, but no joy. I'm digging through all the settings. Since it's intermittent - some songs are fine, it could be some subtle thing in the bad songs...I did get the basic tracks from a few different sources and maybe there is some obscure/hidden setting messing it up?? IDK. Pulling my hair out (and I don't have too much hair to pull!)

If you want Dave, just post your project with the midi tracks and the JABB VSTi along with all it's outputs in a ZIP or RAR file. I should be able to load it.

What system are you using, PC, Mac, 32 or 64 bit? I'm on a PC and have both 32 and 64 bit.

[dea-man]

Originally Posted by davecan

Everything seems to be routed correctly,

This is where everything seems to be going south.....

Perhaps it would be good if we could check and see for sure.

[Sonic Vampire]

have you tried rendering the individual midi tracks to audio before bouncing the mix

[davecan]

Originally Posted by Sonic Vampire

have you tried rendering the individual midi tracks to audio before bouncing the mix

Yes, no luck.

I think it must be a JABB issue --- If I change the instrument to any of my other VST's, it plays and renders without any problem at all. So I think I will try to contact Garritan. Was hoping this would be a simple "DOH" issue, but it doesn't seem like it.

Appreciate all the suggestions so far and if I come up with something I'll be sure to share.

[dmoss74]

Originally Posted by davecan

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, the mod wheel is an issue with JABB - I ran into that on a couple of songs - the track will play until the mod wheel is engaged, and then volume won't come back up. I got around it by removing the mod wheel effects... for my use it's ok, but I could see where it could be a big problem if you really need the effect. But in that case, I couldn't hear the track playing in Reaper.

In my rendering issue, I can actually hear the horns when playing in Reaper. But when it renders, nothing makes it to "tape". I also tried "Apply track FX as new take" and I get a flatline.

Maybe it has something to do with keyswitches? IDK. I'm not a midi expert, by any means, just trying to get the tool to work.

I just hate to think I can't use this JABB - it was relatively cheap, but still not that cheap, especially if I have to buy something else.

i don't know if this is valuable (tod, et al havebetter answers), but the garritan vst's rely on you using the mod wheel to manipulate volume. i have a friend with them, and it took him forever to get used to them.

still, if you're hearing the track in reaper (at an acceptable volume), it should render as such. i was just commenting on the mod wheel itself.

i--too--will have to read tod's stuff. i have issues with kontakt acting weird at rendering time. for now, i need to render the midi files first (as a stem, or whatever the term is) to guarantee no shenanigans at final rendering/mixdown.