Old 02-04-2008, 11:13 PM   #1
Upright
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Default Side Chaining with Reaper

Hey guys,

The whole Idea of Side Chaining is totally foreign to me although I'm trying to get my mind around the concept because it seems as if the technique of sidechaining may prove useful to me. The problem I'm having is I don't have a clue on how or where to being, LOL. From what I gather a common method of Side Chaining is called "Ducking Compression" where a kick is routed to the sidechain input on a compressor while the rest of the track is sent through the main inputs. This creates a "pumping" effect to help the kick drum stand out(Brief explaination from Computer Music magazine). My question is: Can I do side chaining in Reaper? If someone would be so kind as to give me a little help in getting started....how should I go about setting a SC up? Will I need to use a send from one track to another track?

Thanks
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Old 02-04-2008, 11:25 PM   #2
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Well Pipelineaudio has a video tutorial for exactly what you want. Unfortunately my bookmark is to an old link that lists them. Although I think they're on the wiki now.
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Old 02-05-2008, 02:07 AM   #3
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I almost never use sidechaining so there's probably a quicker way to set it up than this - but it works

Select 4 track channels on the bass track & set chan 3/4 to recieve audio from 1/2 on the kick track:



Now insert the VST reacomp on the bass track, select auxiliary L+R in the detector input, the click the "4 ins" button top right and select "auxiliary input L-> recieve from track channel 3" & "auxiliary input R-> recieve from track channel 4"



Now go get it pumpin'!
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Old 02-05-2008, 06:10 AM   #4
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Thanks for the replies guys!

arbogast, you are the man!! Awesome, thanks for the visuals and your time! I'll jump right on this!
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:25 AM   #5
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here's the thread. does a good job describing "sidechaining" in Reaper - and a link to Pipe's video.

http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthre...ideo+sidechain
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Old 02-09-2008, 01:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschuster View Post
here's the thread. does a good job describing "sidechaining" in Reaper - and a link to Pipe's video.

http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthre...ideo+sidechain
Thanks for the info and your time.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:22 AM   #7
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Bumping this old old thread because... apparently I'm not smart enough to figure out Reaper's newer side-chain system.


The info and pics in this thread above show an older version of Reaper when there were separate in and out buttons and a menu with aux detector input choices.

How is this done now?

Attached pics showing:
1. SSL comp in Reaper
2. SSL comp in Reaper with plugin patch bay open
3. SSL comp in Protools
4. SSL comp in Protools with sidechain patch bay open

3 & 4 just for reference.

How do you send a side-chain signal to the detector now?


As you may be able to guess from the patch assignments in pic 2, I did the old-school workaround of using one side of a stereo version of the compressor for the signal and the other side for the side-chain control signal. Then adjust the control signal hotter and back off the threshold so the program I'm trying to duck doesn't trigger it.

I just can't believe side-chaining would be removed and we'd be forced back to this business. So after a laugh and a little eye rolling, would someone be so kind to point out where these controls are now?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SSL in Reaper.jpg (32.5 KB, 1076 views)
File Type: jpg SSL+patch in Reaper.jpg (32.9 KB, 910 views)
File Type: jpg SSL in PT.jpg (32.2 KB, 533 views)
File Type: jpg SSL+patch in PT.jpg (41.1 KB, 593 views)
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Old 08-28-2013, 04:35 PM   #8
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Spend one minute searching this guide and you will find your answer and many more routing techniques.

http://www.cockos.com/reaper/usergui...rGuide440C.pdf
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Old 08-28-2013, 04:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowerbout View Post
Spend one minute searching this guide and you will find your answer and many more routing techniques.

http://www.cockos.com/reaper/usergui...rGuide440C.pdf
Nope...

I'm looking at the ReaComp plugin and I see the pair of 'aux' inputs and the ability to use this unique feature for side-chaining.

What I'm not seeing is how to enable this ability for any other plugin. There's nothing in the plugin's patch bay to let you direct one of the track channels to the detector input. For this SSL Comp for example, there are only 2 inputs. No access to its detector input through the patch bay. But the plugin is in fact side-chainable (see pics 3,4).

What's the trick?

Last edited by serr; 08-28-2013 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
Nope...

I'm looking at the ReaComp plugin and I see the pair of 'aux' inputs and the ability to use this unique feature for side-chaining.

What I'm not seeing is how to enable this ability for any other plugin. There's nothing in the plugin's patch bay to let you direct one of the track channels to the detector input. For this SSL Comp for example, there are only 2 inputs. No access to its detector input through the patch bay. But the plugin is in fact side-chainable (see pics 3,4).

What's the trick?
I'm gonna take a wild guess that the Waves SSL needs to run in VST3 format to utilize its sidechain. Reaper does not support VST3 and therefore won't be able to access the sidechain on it. I hope I'm wrong.

Edit:
For what its worth, I found this in a Google search: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music...sidechain.html
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscomfort View Post
I'm gonna take a wild guess that the Waves SSL needs to run in VST3 format to utilize its sidechain.
YUP! Beat me to it and I place the blame squarely on Waves because they could have easily implemented side-chaining in VST 2 just like everyone else did.
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Old 08-28-2013, 06:12 PM   #12
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This might also help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qELUfGKzJg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOmy9YAkhNc Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stasuSrn1yU Part 2
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscomfort View Post
I'm gonna take a wild guess that the Waves SSL needs to run in VST3 format to utilize its sidechain. Reaper does not support VST3 and therefore won't be able to access the sidechain on it. I hope I'm wrong.

Edit:
For what its worth, I found this in a Google search: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music...sidechain.html
Ah. According to that GS thread I'm supposed to see side chain inputs in the patch bay. "3->sc in L 4->sc in R"

So basically for the first side-chain I tried to patch in Reaper, I picked a broken plugin? Well isn't that special.

No help in any of those videos. I can find no way to make the side-chain inputs appear in the plugin patch bay for the SSL Comp. Without that, there is simply no way to route a control signal to the detector other than on one side of the stereo input as I mentioned earlier. But this is a little clumsy and there'd be no way to completely omit the channel signal from the detector with this method.

Last edited by serr; 08-28-2013 at 07:13 PM.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
So basically for the first side-chain I tried to patch in Reaper, I picked a broken plugin? Well isn't that special.
Its irritating because we started seeing threads about "why the hell can't reaper do VST3 so we can do side-chaining, keep up!". I've been side-chaining since 2000. VST3 would be a fine addition but side-chaining isn't one of them because that is a Waves issue and Reaper already can side-chain.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:10 PM   #15
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Fabfilter are a little guilty on this too, I think. Their VST2 comp plugs won't allow sidechaining in the stereo versions, only the mono versions. For sidechaining their stereo comp you need to use the VST3 plugs.

I'm beginning to wonder if this is a limitation in VST2 and ReaComp uses a dedicated mode to offer it in REAPER (being a REAPER-only VST). Has anyone ever checked the non-REAPER-only version from the stash in another DAW for sidechain functionality?

I know VST2 allows multi-channel ouputs from plugs (think VSTis), does it not allow more than two inputs?

Just an idea...


Edit: did you get anywhere with this Serr? Have you tried using ReaComp? You need to patch the ins using the "pin matrix"...

Edit2: Nope this was me, I didn't have all the versions of the Fabfilter Pro-C compressor in my plugin folder for some reason.

There are four versions: stereo and mono without sidechain, and stereo and mono with sidechain. The without sidechain versions were produced for compatibility with VST2 hosts that threw a wobbly when they detected the extra inputs, it seems. With REAPER, you just need to use the "with sidechain" versions and ignore/leave the sidechain as internal (just like ReaComp).

Just wanted to set this straight, it was me, not any omission/laziness on the part of Fabfilter.



>

Last edited by planetnine; 09-05-2013 at 01:38 AM. Reason: clear up a misunderstanding.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:41 PM   #16
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Every comp that I have that has sidechain capability (which you naturally need ) has the sidechain channels L and R on channels 3 and 4. So just add channel count to 4 and enable those inputs on pin connections if they aren't enabled by default. Most sidechain comps have the ability to listen the sidechain so you can easily check if everything is working ok. Also if you want to get better results, you can put an EQ before your sidechain comp and mod the pin connections so your EQ's output connections aren't 1 and 2 but 3 and 4 (which means you have to add those 3 and 4 and remove 1 and 2 from its output). This way you can finetune your sidechain response with EQ which is much better than simple HP or LP filters that comps themselves usually offer.
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Old 08-29-2013, 09:14 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine View Post
I'm beginning to wonder if this is a limitation in VST2 and ReaComp uses a dedicated mode to offer it in REAPER (being a REAPER-only VST). Has anyone ever checked the non-REAPER-only version from the stash in another DAW for sidechain functionality?
I used sidechains > 10 years ago long before reaper even existed IIRC. There is a limitation comparatively but side-chaining is completely possible in VST2. See my old rant where I quoted Sonar stating the exact same thing:

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...1&postcount=34
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Old 08-29-2013, 11:53 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine View Post
I know VST2 allows multi-channel ouputs from plugs (think VSTis), does it not allow more than two inputs?
>
Yep, it certainly does.
Take Melda Productions as an example with their 2-16 ins and 2-8 outs.
As an earlier poster hinted, some programmers/developers are just lazy.
Steve
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:06 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by bradleyfilms View Post
Yep, it certainly does.
Take Melda Productions as an example with their 2-16 ins and 2-8 outs.
As an earlier poster hinted, some programmers/developers are just lazy.
Steve
Or Voxengo's Pristine space with 8 ins and 8 outs.
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:27 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Or Voxengo's Pristine space with 8 ins and 8 outs.
Exactly.
Within Reaper you can have sidechain volume, sidechain panning, sidechain filters, sidechain whatever, it's entirely up to you.
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Old 08-29-2013, 05:47 PM   #21
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Well I'll certainly take FabFilter to task over that then, they make it out to be a limitation of the VST2.4 spec, like you need v3 to make it work.

BF: I'm not trying to find out what REAPER can do regarding sidechaining, I know it has all the routing capability it needs for it. I'm trying to confirm there is no limitation within the VST spec to stop it, I thought ReaComo might be a special build for REAPER.


Edit: Nope this was me, I didn't have all the versions of the Fabfilter Pro-C compressor in my plugin folder for some reason. See post above...



>

Last edited by planetnine; 09-05-2013 at 01:40 AM.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:39 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyfilms View Post
Exactly.
Within Reaper you can have sidechain volume, sidechain panning, sidechain filters, sidechain whatever, it's entirely up to you.
Steve
can you elaborate a bit on this? what filter might you use that has a side-chain input? or am i totally lost at sea? sorry to threadjack...
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:33 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine View Post
Edit: did you get anywhere with this Serr? Have you tried using ReaComp? You need to patch the ins using the "pin matrix"...
ReaComp didn't make the cut for sound unfortunately.

I used a stereo version of the SSL comp. I sent the mono input signal I was working with to one side and then only patched that corresponding mono output. I sent my control signal to the other side and then adjusted the level and compressor threshold for the desired ducking I wanted but 'offset' so that the input signal didn't hit the threshold point.
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Old 05-17-2014, 03:40 AM   #24
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I find that I sometimes need a more agressive EQ than the one provided with ReaGate, so I use sidechaining. For example for tom mics in a live recording where there is bleed. This is how I set it up:

Set track channels to 4
Add a ReaEQ and a ReaGate.
Set inputs on the EQ to 1 & 2 and outputs to 3 & 4
Set 4 in och 2 out on the gate. Detector to 3 & 4 so that it gets the EQ'd signal and set its outputs to 1 & 2.
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