Old 01-28-2011, 03:49 PM   #1
Guncho
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Default V-Drums: Roland or Yamaha?

If you had $1000 and would prefer to buy used, what would you look for? My research tells me that the Roland HD-1 and Yamaha DTXplorer are "toys" and are to be avoided. This narrows my choices to probaby a Yamaha DTXpress IV or any of the Roland TD line I can get for under a grand. I've also read that the mesh snares on the Roland are nicer then the rubber Yamaha ones.

Also, it doesn't really matter to me what sounds the drums have in them as I will be triggering Ezdrummer exclusively.

Thanks for any helps!
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Old 01-28-2011, 04:28 PM   #2
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If you had $1000 and would prefer to buy used, what would you look for? My research tells me that the Roland HD-1 and Yamaha DTXplorer are "toys" and are to be avoided. This narrows my choices to probaby a Yamaha DTXpress IV or any of the Roland TD line I can get for under a grand. I've also read that the mesh snares on the Roland are nicer then the rubber Yamaha ones.

Also, it doesn't really matter to me what sounds the drums have in them as I will be triggering Ezdrummer exclusively.

Thanks for any helps!
I have the TD9-KXS kit (same as US "KX" but its a Canadian model number). This is a mesh kit and I can vouch for V-Drums in this range of quality. Not sure about the plastic ones though.

But if you're lucky, maybe you can get some used ones in your budget range.
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Old 01-28-2011, 04:49 PM   #3
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Look for a used set of Hart Pro pads, then get whatever brain floats yer boat. (or use direct-triggering software, as I do, for less latency)

The Harts are universally loved by drummers, as they look & feel more like real drums. They are slightly more prone to cross-talk, though, so you have to use either individual stands, or a very beefy rack. I filled my rack with sand.
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Old 01-28-2011, 04:51 PM   #4
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I have the TD9-KXS kit (same as US "KX" but its a Canadian model number). This is a mesh kit and I can vouch for V-Drums in this range of quality. Not sure about the plastic ones though.

But if you're lucky, maybe you can get some used ones in your budget range.
I have this Roland kit.



And playing Superior Drummer 2 in Reaper from them tracks like this.

Hit Factory: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=9928472
DW Kit: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=7847526
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Old 01-28-2011, 05:03 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
I have this Roland kit.

[image of plastic head V-drums]

And playing Superior Drummer 2 in Reaper from them tracks like this.

Hit Factory: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=9928472
DW Kit: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=7847526
Well, there you go. Confirmed. Seems you can't go wrong even with the plastic/rubber ones if you can get tracks like what Glennbo ( a real drummer, unlike me) has managed to record from them.

Glennbo, what kit would you recommend then? Given you'll vouch for the plastic/rubber heads.
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Old 01-28-2011, 05:24 PM   #6
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Well, there you go. Confirmed. Seems you can't go wrong even with the plastic ones if you can get tracks like what Glennbo ( a real drummer, unlike me) has managed to record from them.

Glennbo, what kit would you recommend then? Given you'll vouch for the plastic heads.
I absolutely think the rubber head drums are totally fine. I actually went into Guitar Center with $350 cash to try and buy a mesh head snare for my kit. My TD-6 brain can do the mesh heads, and I wanted the "positional" stuff the mesh heads are supposed to offer. Anyway, on the TD-10 they had on display, I tried the drum I had intended to buy, but wasn't hearing any in-between stuff, playing from the center of the head to right up to the rim, and the guy at Guitar Center didn't even know what I was talking about with the positional stuff. The mesh heads felt slightly more sensitive, but since I couldn't hear any positional sensing happening, I passed because it wasn't worth the bucks to only get a little more sensitivity IMO.

I haven't played this kit, but if $1000 and below is the price range, it's prolly the one I would be looking at. I think I paid $1200 for my base kit, and then switched the cymbal looking pads out (I'm a heavy hitter and made them false choke too frequently when recording), and added 6 dual-trigger pads for hihat, snare, and all cymbals.

http://drums-percussion.musiciansfri...Set?sku=361186

Edit: I just noticed the "prefer to buy used", so with that in mind, I'd look for a TD-6 based kit like mine, or higher if you can stay within the $1000 range.
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Old 01-28-2011, 06:05 PM   #7
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Here are mine



All the real drums have mesh by roland or hart. Roland dual zone trigger on the snare. Home made hi-hat trigger with cymbal mute and 20 mm piezo in plastic box with a jack. Already had the drums, $400 craiglist used td-6 kit. About $650 total works great
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Old 01-29-2011, 06:32 AM   #8
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Glennbo ngo into the kits and if you dial in a snare pad that is marked with a P you get positional response.

I have a real mishmash kit. TD8 brain with CY series cymbals and all mesh pads. I love it. Triggering EZD SD or with the internal sounds, but you DO have to RTFM and you DO have to spend some time setting the edrums up.

Potential edrummers in the UK check out traps edrums.
They used to make Arbiters drums for them and their stuff is excellent and if you ask the sales guys nicely they will sell you just single or double trigger mesh head pads which are every bit as good as the rolands and way cheaper.

And trust me until you have played mesh head drums you havent really experienced everything an e kit can offer.
Mind you I wish the cymbals behaved and felt more like real ones....
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Old 01-29-2011, 06:55 AM   #9
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I'm a pretty big fan of the Roland modules and own three of them (A TD20 expanded, a TD12 and a TMC-6). I also have a mixture of mesh and rubber heads and a variety of cymbals.

If you are using Toontrack VSTi's, the module sounds are less important but one thing going for the Roland modules even with VSTi use is the way they respond to the signals from mesh heads. These mesh heads typically have a cone sensor in the middle of the drum and one on the shell for head and edge triggering and positional information (the latter irrelevant with VSTi's).
The big thing with many modules is what is called a 'hot spot' in the centre of the mesh heads right on the cone where the extra sensitivity results in unnaturally loud sounds. Roland modules (the TD12 and especially the TD20) are very good at minimising the effects of the hot spot in the middle of the mesh heads.

If you are interested in knowing the details of my kit, it was featured in this month's Digital Drummer Magazine which is free...
http://www.digitaldrummermag.com/


I am using a mixture of module sounds and Toontrack sounds (Superior Drummer) depending on the song I'm recording.
I used Superior Drummer on the latest song from the new AusDisciples Band album 'Judgement Day'.
This song is called 'You Are My Saviour' <--- click to listen
It was recorded and mixed in REAPER.

Song details:
Vocals, acoustic guitars - John Stuppy.
Drums, bass, electric guitar, Hammond organ, Wurlitzer piano - Dannii.

Lyrics - John Stuppy.
Music - John Stuppy and Dannii.

Here's a couple of pics of my kit (most of it is made up of my own DIY triggers made from acoustic drums)...



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Old 01-29-2011, 07:41 AM   #10
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That't the most insane drum kit I've ever seen!
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Old 01-29-2011, 08:33 AM   #11
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That't the most insane drum kit I've ever seen!
Try Terry Bozio:


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Old 01-29-2011, 09:02 AM   #12
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Dali, Terry's kit was part of the inspiration behind my kit design
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Old 01-29-2011, 09:48 AM   #13
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I have a DTXpress IV, with 4 toms and 3 cymbals, and I quite like it. Lots of flexibility, quite expandable, and easy to work with. Recommend.
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Old 01-29-2011, 09:56 AM   #14
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I have a DTXpress IV, with 4 toms and 3 cymbals, and I quite like it. Lots of flexibility, quite expandable, and easy to work with. Recommend.
I put my pad kit together to try and emulate the acoustic kit I play live. Same basic layout, and similar sounds. I used to have a Ludwig "Octa-Plus" kit in an isolation booth with 15 high quality mics on it, but that literally took between 30 minutes to an hour with two people to get all the mics tweaked and ready to record.

I love having a kit that I can turn on, press record and instantly get decent sound out of. I have all the gear, including bass preamps, guitar cabintets, keys, etc. setup in my studio so that the second I have a musical idea, I can capture it on the spot, while the juices are flowing. I think of recording as being similar to that of taking pictures. Capturing moments in time, and if the camera ain't ready to take a picture, you miss the moment.
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Old 01-29-2011, 04:39 PM   #15
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So did you figure out the positional sensing OK?
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Old 01-29-2011, 05:23 PM   #16
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Try Terry Bozio:


You've gotta feel for his drum tech...poor sod
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Old 01-29-2011, 11:16 PM   #17
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So here's where I'm at now. Today I played a Roland TD-9, Roland HD-1, Roland TD-4 and a Yamaha DTXplorer.

I've learned that I would really like to have two crash cymbals and a ride which most of the kits in my price range don't have. What these kits do have is three tom pads where I only need two. 1 rack and 1 floor. If I'm triggering ezdrummer, can I just use one of the tom pads as a ride? Or can the kits below handle another input and does the rack have space for it?

I learned that the HD-1 felt like a step up from Rockband so not for me, the DTXplorer felt really cramped especially snare access but maybe it's how they set it up and I'm big guy.

So ruling out the HD-1 and the DTXplorer and hoping to add another cymbal or use one of the toms as a cymbal if you could afford one of these kits, what would you get?

Yamaha DTXpress III
Yamaha DTXpress IV
Roland TD-3 (Mesh snare only)
Roland TD-4 (Mesh snare only)
Roland TD-6 (Mesh snare only)
Roland TD-7 (Mesh snare only)
Roland TD-8 (Mesh snare only)
Roland TD-9 (Mesh snare only)
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Old 01-30-2011, 03:32 AM   #18
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I use a pad for ride it's absolutely fine but I'm used to playing on hire kits all over the place so you get less fussy. Anyway it does the job. No articulation between cymbal and bell though
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:19 AM   #19
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I use a pad for ride it's absolutely fine but I'm used to playing on hire kits all over the place so you get less fussy. Anyway it does the job. No articulation between cymbal and bell though
My kit has pads for all the cymbals, but all 5 of them are dual trigger pads, with two articulations and the ability to choke.
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:31 AM   #20
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Glennbo ngo into the kits and if you dial in a snare pad that is marked with a P you get positional response.
I took a quick look through the parameters in my TD-6 and didn't see anything in the snares or their parameters that indicated a "P". At this point it doesn't matter to me. I'd have bought the mesh head snare two years ago, but I didn't hear any change of samples on any patch, starting from the center of the pad and going to the edge of the rim. Only when I actually hit the rim did the samples change, and I tried every stock patch on the TD-10 kit they had on display. Just as well. I used that money to buy the OLP 5-String Stingray bass I play on most of my songs.
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:41 AM   #21
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I took a quick look through the parameters in my TD-6 and didn't see anything in the snares or their parameters that indicated a "P". At this point it doesn't matter to me. I'd have bought the mesh head snare two years ago, but I didn't hear any change of samples on any patch, starting from the center of the pad and going to the edge of the rim. Only when I actually hit the rim did the samples change, and I tried every stock patch on the TD-10 kit they had on display. Just as well. I used that money to buy the OLP 5-String Stingray bass I play on most of my songs.
I think (I could be wrong here) the positional sensing was introduced in the TD12 and TD20. I know the expansion board I bought for my TD20 also includes extra sensing for the tom rims now too.
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:42 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Guncho View Post
So here's where I'm at now. Today I played a Roland TD-9, Roland HD-1, Roland TD-4 and a Yamaha DTXplorer.

I've learned that I would really like to have two crash cymbals and a ride which most of the kits in my price range don't have. What these kits do have is three tom pads where I only need two. 1 rack and 1 floor. If I'm triggering ezdrummer, can I just use one of the tom pads as a ride? Or can the kits below handle another input and does the rack have space for it?

I learned that the HD-1 felt like a step up from Rockband so not for me, the DTXplorer felt really cramped especially snare access but maybe it's how they set it up and I'm big guy.

So ruling out the HD-1 and the DTXplorer and hoping to add another cymbal or use one of the toms as a cymbal if you could afford one of these kits, what would you get?

Yamaha DTXpress III
Yamaha DTXpress IV
Roland TD-3 (Mesh snare only)
Roland TD-4 (Mesh snare only)
Roland TD-6 (Mesh snare only)
Roland TD-7 (Mesh snare only)
Roland TD-8 (Mesh snare only)
Roland TD-9 (Mesh snare only)
I'd personally be going for the newest module you can afford. If you can get a TD9 second hand within your budget, I'd be going that way.
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:50 AM   #23
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I think (I could be wrong here) the positional sensing was introduced in the TD12 and TD20. I know the expansion board I bought for my TD20 also includes extra sensing for the tom rims now too.
Since I use Superior Drummer 2 as my sound engine, it's "humanize" function produces enough slight variation that it never sounds like sterilized repeating samples on every hit. That and the way they have the room sound open up (especially on the Hit Factory samples) with velocity, make me not miss positional sensing so much. As you can see from the snare in this pic of my live kit, I pretty much stay in the zone (where the ping is just right) on my acoustic snare. Hehe, I had to replace that snare head shortly after taking this pic. <g>

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Old 01-30-2011, 09:15 AM   #24
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Since I use Superior Drummer 2 as my sound engine, it's "humanize" function produces enough slight variation that it never sounds like sterilized repeating samples on every hit. That and the way they have the room sound open up (especially on the Hit Factory samples) with velocity, make me not miss positional sensing so much. As you can see from the snare in this pic of my live kit, I pretty much stay in the zone (where the ping is just right) on my acoustic snare. Hehe, I had to replace that snare head shortly after taking this pic. <g>
That's a pretty cool A-Kit Glennbo. Is that a brass shell on your snare?

I hear you with the Superior Drummer thing too. I have the stock kits, the Custom & Vintage SDX and the Twisted kit and that gives me plenty of sonic possibilities. The Custom and Vintage pack is well and truly worth buying IMHO. The hats are much crisper than the stock kits and the toms are really nice. There's some great snares too..... hmmm, come to think of it, it's all good!!!
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:16 AM   #25
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I'd personally be going for the newest module you can afford. If you can get a TD9 second hand within your budget, I'd be going that way.
Someone else told me the numbers go backwards so an 8 is newer than a 9 etc. Which is correct?
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:21 AM   #26
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Someone else told me the numbers go backwards so an 8 is newer than a 9 etc. Which is correct?
Here's the release dates of the modules....

1992: TD-7
1994: TD-5
1997: TD-10
1999: TD-8
2000: TDW-1 Wave and System Expansion Board
2001: TDW-1 with V-Cymbal Control
2001: TD-6
2004: TD-3, TD-6V and TD-20
2005: TD-12
2007: HD-1
2008: TD-9
2008: TDW-20 Expansion
2009: TD-4
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:34 AM   #27
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That's a pretty cool A-Kit Glennbo. Is that a brass shell on your snare?
Thanks! The stock snare that came with the kit was birch, like the rest of the kit, but right away I traded it in and spent the extra bucks to get the hand hammered brass snare. It's got a perfect balance of crack to ping when you hit it right where that worn spot is on the head.

Quote:
I hear you with the Superior Drummer thing too. I have the stock kits, the Custom & Vintage SDX and the Twisted kit and that gives me plenty of sonic possibilities. The Custom and Vintage pack is well and truly worth buying IMHO. The hats are much crisper than the stock kits and the toms are really nice. There's some great snares too..... hmmm, come to think of it, it's all good!!!
I'm a Toontrack believer. When I first bought EZ-Drummer and found that it accurately followed my hihat foot splashes, I was hooked. On my live kit, I frequently keep quarter note time on hihat foot splashes going, while playing eighth note grooves on the ride. EZ-Drummer tracked my pad kit so that I could play the same kind of stuff digitally. Later, I won a Summer song contest at Toontrack and got a free copy of "Drumkit From Hell Superior" (which was Superior 1), and then upgraded from that to Superior 2, which is what I use exclusively with my pad kit now.
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Old 01-30-2011, 10:59 AM   #28
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Here's the release dates of the modules....

1992: TD-7
1994: TD-5
1997: TD-10
1999: TD-8
2000: TDW-1 Wave and System Expansion Board
2001: TDW-1 with V-Cymbal Control
2001: TD-6
2004: TD-3, TD-6V and TD-20
2005: TD-12
2007: HD-1
2008: TD-9
2008: TDW-20 Expansion
2009: TD-4
Awesome thanks! This is super helpful?

PS What were the Roland developers smoking when they came up with this system!!!
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:52 PM   #29
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For what I think I can get for under $1000 used in my area I've narrowed it down to these in order from best to worst. What do you guys think of this order?

(I'm not using model numbers as I can't keep track of them)

1 TD-9 (Mesh snare only)
2 TD-4 (All mesh)
3 TD-4 (Mesh snare only)
4 TD-6V (Mesh snare only)
5 TD-3 (Mesh snare only)
6 TD-6 (All rubber)
7 Yamaha DTXpress IV

What do you guys think of that order and keep in mind that I will be triggerd EZdrummer 100%.
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Old 01-31-2011, 12:47 AM   #30
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Given that you'll be triggering EZD exclusively, I'd be going for the all mesh TD4.
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Old 01-31-2011, 06:25 AM   #31
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Will adjust the list accordingly!
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Old 01-31-2011, 11:10 PM   #32
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after spending years with a roland td6 triggering an mp1000 for samples i would not buy an electronic kit unless it had a proper built in sampler, i think a company called hartke make these.
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:42 AM   #33
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As I said I will be triggering EZDrummer exclusively so the built in sounds make no difference to me.
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Old 02-01-2011, 06:59 AM   #34
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As I said I will be triggering EZDrummer exclusively so the built in sounds make no difference to me.
Yep, that's exactly what I do, although with Superior Drummer 2.

I just did this Sunday using my TD-6 as a soundless controller.

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=10215295
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:16 AM   #35
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1 TD-9 (Mesh snare only)

What do you guys think of that order and keep in mind that I will be triggerd EZdrummer 100%.
My TD9 kit is ALL mesh. It's model number is TD9_KX or TD-9KXS (depending on your country of origin).

But I guess you're suggesting that you buy the version with the mesh head only? That's probably a good choice and also cheaper.
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