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Old 07-23-2015, 02:25 AM   #1
Mind Riot
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Default Dynamic EQs - isn't there some rule against it being this easy?

I've been intrigued by dynamic EQs since I first heard about them, and the different and broader capabilities they offer over multiband compressors, so I've been interested in picking one up for a while. I know there's only a few available out there, and even less that are affordable. I tried out Toneboosters' offering and it was pretty cool, but Melda's Dynamic EQ's greater customization really caught my eye. I've been waiting for it to come around in the rotation of their weekly sales, and last week it finally did, so I snatched it up for a bit over $38, and I consider that an absolute steal for this plug.

I don't know how late I am to the party on this, if I'm like the last one to know, or if there's still a lot of people who aren't familiar with dynamic equalizers and what they can do, but holy crap. The doors it opens in mixing, the problems it allows you to get around so easily that took such complex workarounds before, the totally new creative possibilities it affords, it's just really exciting. It takes a bit to wrap your head around how it works and interacts with everything else at first, but once you really understand it, it almost feels like cheating.

Anyone else taking advantage of these kinds of tools, either Melda's, or Toneboosters', or someone else's? How've you been using it?
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Old 07-23-2015, 02:55 AM   #2
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Yes, TB Flx is awesome indeed.
Dynamic eQ is a secret weapon of choice, when used à propos. I don't use it daily, but it is perfect for fixing issues while mixing.


Last edited by sinkmusic; 07-23-2015 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 07-23-2015, 03:43 AM   #3
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Here's a little known tool that does a great job at narrow band dynamics control (and other things). I use it in mastering quite a bit.

http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php...imiter&id=2105
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Old 07-23-2015, 03:52 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by bladerunner View Post
Here's a little known tool that does a great job at narrow band dynamics control (and other things). I use it in mastering quite a bit.

http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php...imiter&id=2105
Oooooooh...cool.

Don't mind if I do.

Thank you. Boy, you're just a font of useful plugs.
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Old 07-23-2015, 04:05 AM   #5
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I love TB FlX and use it a lot.

VladG made one for the KVR Dev Challenge last year. Haven't used it much since I have FlX but it seems pretty awesome and it's free. The interface is a bit eye searing but IIRC it can be skinned.

http://www.kvraudio.com/product/nova-67p-by-vladg-sound
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Old 07-23-2015, 04:41 AM   #6
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Interesting... eye-searing is not at all what I'd call that soft pastel blue with soft gradients and plenty of negative space. :O
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Old 07-23-2015, 04:51 AM   #7
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Oh, forgot that one, good for Live 9 Standard users guess.
Why are you guys not using Reapers own modulation\routing huh huh? curious.

Last edited by SmajjL; 07-23-2015 at 04:53 AM. Reason: None of your biss.. :)
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Old 07-23-2015, 05:10 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind Riot View Post
I've been intrigued by dynamic EQs since I first heard about them, and the different and broader capabilities they offer over multiband compressors, so I've been interested in picking one up for a while. I know there's only a few available out there, and even less that are affordable. I tried out Toneboosters' offering and it was pretty cool, but Melda's Dynamic EQ's greater customization really caught my eye. I've been waiting for it to come around in the rotation of their weekly sales, and last week it finally did, so I snatched it up for a bit over $38, and I consider that an absolute steal for this plug.

I don't know how late I am to the party on this, if I'm like the last one to know, or if there's still a lot of people who aren't familiar with dynamic equalizers and what they can do, but holy crap. The doors it opens in mixing, the problems it allows you to get around so easily that took such complex workarounds before, the totally new creative possibilities it affords, it's just really exciting. It takes a bit to wrap your head around how it works and interacts with everything else at first, but once you really understand it, it almost feels like cheating.

Anyone else taking advantage of these kinds of tools, either Melda's, or Toneboosters', or someone else's? How've you been using it?
MDynamicEQ Kills it imo. Ugly gui though. I even bought a nicer skin for it!! Excellent utility plug. M/S per band and some nice saturation if needed. Check out the harmonics function. Very cool.
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Old 07-23-2015, 05:16 AM   #9
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Why are you guys not using Reapers own modulation\routing huh huh? curious.
Amen!

ReaFIR is my tool of choice for this.
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Old 07-23-2015, 05:32 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by bladerunner View Post
Here's a little known tool that does a great job at narrow band dynamics control (and other things). I use it in mastering quite a bit.

http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php...imiter&id=2105
Very nice - thanks! wasn't aware of this one.
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Old 07-23-2015, 05:49 AM   #11
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When you need either a single band of dynamic eq or many (a multiband comp that is), these tools pretty much feel like cheating!

I ended up spending my voucher on UA's multiband comp back when they switched from TDM plugins to vst (but now using a hardware pci card) and gave us all vouchers to calm us down. It's really nice. Still cleaner than any other multiband comp I've tried (that includes all Waves attempts at one). (Except the crossovers in the Waves linear phase multiband are really good. Not the compression functions so much - just the crossovers.)

For restoration work on full program, there's no other choice.

For simpler things on an isolated track, I'll often parameter modulate a band on a ReaEQ. When ReaEQ is of sufficient quality, this is really convenient.

I've tried messing with ReaFIR a few times... Putting an actual pillow in front of the speakers would be easier... Oh well.

I wouldn't mind a quick easy plugin for isolated single band things here and there if it worked well. Hard to justify spending any money with ReaEQ + parameter modulation right here though.

That link for that vst4free went to a page with only a link for the windows version. Home page? Might be worth checking out.


Now please, don't anyone go down the rabbit hole loading up a channel with 17 instances of a dynamic eq and start posting more "mastering" videos on youtube!

Last edited by serr; 07-23-2015 at 06:17 AM.
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Old 07-23-2015, 06:05 AM   #12
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I've tried messing with ReaFIR a few times... Putting an actual pillow in front of the speakers would be easier... Oh well.
Best tip I can give you is to never use the default eq setup. It starts with a display range of +24 > -90. There are few tasks where you need this much range. You need this is subtraction mode, that's it.

Change it, and save it as the default.

My default opens up with the display range at +6 > -6. At this zoom level, it's really easy to make subtle, but very precise and effective changes. expand the range only when needed.
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Old 07-23-2015, 06:23 AM   #13
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Also, a little ex, one can utilize a JS-bandsplitter/joiner, then route to 3 new tracks and then use your gazillion dollar compressor or EQ on them, that's all I am saying, there is even a JS-mixer.
Anyway, that said, I love it when you people share to explain stuff from their point of view of different scenarios on why and why not, eager to learn new tricks even if I could do It already This or That way, i'm fascinated always to hear you fine people think out loud.
Sometimes I could just try\do something different because the old way is boring and Reaper is not boring.
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Old 07-23-2015, 06:28 AM   #14
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I'm cheap and got TB FIX for fixing all sorts.

Does so invisibly most of the time, leaving you to color and tweak further down the chain as you wish.

Adds a Pdc so no real-time fun but can't have it all

Sure you can param mod reaeq but its just fiddlier in comparison.
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Old 07-23-2015, 07:26 AM   #15
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No love for GlissEQ?

It is one of my favourite EQs by a long shot. Sounds great, amazing and unique filter selection, oversampling, dynamic or static, mid-side, dual mono, stereo, 5.1, multi track spectrum, harmonic enhancement, etc, etc, etc...

It's awesome.
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Old 07-23-2015, 07:44 AM   #16
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Interesting... eye-searing is not at all what I'd call that soft pastel blue with soft gradients and plenty of negative space. :O
I didn't notice it had changed. It used to be very white.
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Old 07-23-2015, 08:53 AM   #17
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Can you guys give me some concrete examples of WHERE one would use a dynamic EQ.

I cant wrap my head around multiband compression at all. Dynamic eq seems easier to grasp but I'm having a hard time determining how and why it would be useful.

For something like sibilance I'd use a dedicated de-esser or just reduce it manually through editing. Same with plosives. Those are the only frequency dependent issues I can think of where a dynamic EQ would be useful but in my case redundant.
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Old 07-23-2015, 09:00 AM   #18
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No love for GlissEQ?

It is one of my favourite EQs by a long shot. Sounds great, amazing and unique filter selection, oversampling, dynamic or static, mid-side, dual mono, stereo, 5.1, multi track spectrum, harmonic enhancement, etc, etc, etc...

It's awesome.
I've been eying this for ages... I still want it. bought Acon equalize last time but I think I would have got more use from GlissEQ

I also love the idea of cross track spectrum analyzer. I use span on everything so im sure i would love gliss for this purpose
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Old 07-23-2015, 09:01 AM   #19
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Never used a Dynamic EQ before and I'm giving Vladgs Nova-67p (why the 67P.. just to make it hard to remember?) a try right now. Never occurred to me to try one before I saw this thread.

Confusing, but interesting. Seems easiest to just use as and EQ+Compressor except for troublesome regions that you can then bring down with a lower threshold rather than just pulling back on the filter. So it probably preferable to a multiband compressor for doing narrow range controls.
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Old 07-23-2015, 09:11 AM   #20
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It's pretty easy to use a multiband and end up with something quite different tonal-balance wise to what you started with, I.e undoing alot of previous work, whereas IMO dynamic eq deals with your freq of interest and is generally more natural.

One use example would be an acoustic guitar part where at a certain chord a freq becomes problematic but standard eq spoils majority if you adjust globally just for that moment.
It deals with issue invisibly as if problem wasn't there and you carry on.

Quick fixing like that is reassuring as I know all other tweaks are relevant and untouched but just the odd time that bad freq pokes out it gets swatted.

Attack, release and % controls also allow you to hone in on problems.
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Old 07-23-2015, 09:27 AM   #21
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I've been eying this for ages... I still want it. bought Acon equalize last time but I think I would have got more use from GlissEQ

I also love the idea of cross track spectrum analyzer. I use span on everything so im sure i would love gliss for this purpose
Looks to be 15% off right now .
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Old 07-23-2015, 10:46 AM   #22
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If you ever see three people argue, don't be upset, be fascinated over of why one of the other sounds more distinct over the other etc.
What?
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Old 07-23-2015, 11:40 AM   #23
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Here's my take on ReaDynamicEq
http://geir-music.blogspot.no/2010/0...dynamiceq.html

But I recommend Vladgs Nova-67p, at least for single source material.
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Old 07-23-2015, 12:31 PM   #24
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I used to do it with ReaEQ and PM but I was told that modulating an EQ in this way could introduce audible phase distortion due to the PM updates happening once per audio buffer, so the changes are stepped. Thinking about it now, it might not be a real issue. Surely any decent EQ plugin would implement internal parameter smoothing anyway?

Anyway around the time I was worrying about this, TB FlX was released and it was so easy and affordable that I bought it and never looked back.

edit: I was convinced I could hear the phase distortion with ReaEQ + PM but perhaps I was fooling myself. Need to design a test.
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Old 07-23-2015, 01:07 PM   #25
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I used to do it with ReaEQ and PM but I was told that modulating an EQ in this way could introduce audible phase distortion
Well, any sort of minimum phase eq or linear phase eq works, in some way, by introducing phase distortion. I don't think you can eliminate the phase shift which is inherent in manipulating frequency without distorting it.

*But I can see how modulating something with a fast attack can be simply awful... but generally we are reaching for this tool on other sounds... right?

So yeah, you don't want to use your sweet, phase shifting, analog sounding eq for this.

But who knows, it totally dependant on the situation.
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Old 07-23-2015, 01:08 PM   #26
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Can you guys give me some concrete examples of WHERE one would use a dynamic EQ.

I cant wrap my head around multiband compression at all. Dynamic eq seems easier to grasp but I'm having a hard time determining how and why it would be useful.

For something like sibilance I'd use a dedicated de-esser or just reduce it manually through editing. Same with plosives. Those are the only frequency dependent issues I can think of where a dynamic EQ would be useful but in my case redundant.
Dynamic eq's are great for taming overpowering frequencies. As well they can be good dessers and really useful on overheads to tame cymbals etc.
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Old 07-23-2015, 01:52 PM   #27
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Can you guys give me some concrete examples of WHERE one would use a dynamic EQ.
The great thing about dynamic eq's is that they will only attenuate when a certain threshold has been reached. Although this is obviously very similar to how multiband comps work I tend to find dynamic eq's smoother - more transparent. This is ideal for mastering. In my work it's typically mids/high mids that I use it on mostly - where melody notes or a lead vocal might 'jump' out the mix a little too much on certain frequency areas. A regular eq could be automated but I much prefer using a set and forget dynamic eq.
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Old 07-23-2015, 01:59 PM   #28
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Dynamic EQs are possibly the most dangerous tool in digital audio when in the hands of a novice sound mixer. Can do irreparable damage that can't be fixed later, so I'm a little surprised to see it discussed so lightly. ... the thought of just a multiband compressor in the hands of someone with only a year or so experience is scary enough. Now let's give 'em a powerful EQ to go with that!

I'll say also that most tracks and tunes shouldn't need any or much at all if they were tracked correctly in the first place.
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Old 07-23-2015, 02:00 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by G-Sun View Post
Your gain reduction (the parameter modulation) is based on the whole frequency range instead of the problem region (the region you want to eq)

To do this better you can put a reafir in front and cut everything except the problem region and send that to 3/4 (doesn't matter if you use a steep slope because its used for modulation only)

Change the parameter modulation on the actual eq to listen to channel 3/4 and ajust gain accordingly.


You can also use this setup for side chaining. Just send your kick to 3/4 instead of the reafir.
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Old 07-23-2015, 02:31 PM   #30
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VladG made one for the KVR Dev Challenge last year. Haven't used it much since I have FlX but it seems pretty awesome and it's free. The interface is a bit eye searing but IIRC it can be skinned.

http://www.kvraudio.com/product/nova-67p-by-vladg-sound
Nova67p is where I started with all this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by henge1 View Post
MDynamicEQ Kills it imo. Ugly gui though. I even bought a nicer skin for it!! Excellent utility plug. M/S per band and some nice saturation if needed. Check out the harmonics function. Very cool.
Are you talking about Satya's skin? I bought it too, I have a few different Melda plugs in my toolbox aside from the freebies, I also picked up their multiband convolution plug and their multi-analyzer.

Satya's skin is a vast improvement and removes the biggest downside to Melda's plugs, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by James HE View Post
Best tip I can give you is to never use the default eq setup. It starts with a display range of +24 > -90. There are few tasks where you need this much range. You need this is subtraction mode, that's it.
I love ReaFIR, despite it's somewhat fiddly nature. A friend of mine used to film weddings and would have me clean up the audio to remove air conditioning noise and the like, and ReaFIR's noise profiling and subtraction mode made the whole thing take about five seconds minus the rendering.

I bought Melda's plug to do my dynamic EQing because I decided I didn't mind spending the equivalent of a dinner out for the wife and I on a superb tool, but it's absolutely badass that between ReaFIR, ReaEQ, some other plugs, and parameter modulation that there's about ten other ways to do it in Reaper for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicbuss View Post
Can you guys give me some concrete examples of WHERE one would use a dynamic EQ.

I cant wrap my head around multiband compression at all. Dynamic eq seems easier to grasp but I'm having a hard time determining how and why it would be useful.

For something like sibilance I'd use a dedicated de-esser or just reduce it manually through editing. Same with plosives. Those are the only frequency dependent issues I can think of where a dynamic EQ would be useful but in my case redundant.
One example Melda used in their tutorial clip for the plug was a conflict in high mids between a guitar track and a vocal that made the vocals indistinct. So the EQ was used on the guitar track with a sidechain input from the vocal track to pull down just the high mids and only when the vocals were present, leaving the guitars alone otherwise. The vocals stood out much better, and the guitars were untouched otherwise.

One thing I've experimented with is using it as an expander on overcompressed drum samples. So if you've got a drum sound that you like but it's just lacking a little life and you don't want to rebuild it from the ground up, or your samples are preprocessed as most are these days and have too much compression, you can set the dynamic EQ at several different frequencies to not compress but expand, and it brings out some more dynamics and detail.

Another thing I've been messing with is trying to make some loudness war casualties more listenable. I used it in combination with Terry West's Relife plug to try to bring some life back to super squashed, clipped commercial records, again set up as an expander, and the results were quite pleasing.

It would also work better as a ducker for a bass guitar using a kick drum as a sidechain than a standard compressor, because you could just duck the conflicting low frequencies instead of the entire bass track. But you might prefer to duck the whole track, either way.

Every time I try something, I think of something else to try.
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Old 07-23-2015, 02:45 PM   #31
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Can you guys give me some concrete examples of WHERE one would use a dynamic EQ.

How many times has this been quoted now? don't we all like to look smart?

To break it down in the simplest terms possible...


"this sounds great except when that happens."

..so when ever that happens you do less this.

or

"this sounds great only when that happens."

so when ever that happens you do more this.
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Old 07-23-2015, 07:36 PM   #32
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Looks to be 15% off right now .
It seems like glisseq is sort of simplified variety.. I don't see anything about attack or release etc.. its just sort of got a couple dynamic modes..

probably good for me so I don't have to think too much


You just had to do this didn't you...

I better not. I'm still on spending freeze from getting an axefx

but i could use my paypal credit i think..

damnit KF... see what you did!
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Old 07-23-2015, 08:29 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Magicbuss View Post
Can you guys give me some concrete examples of WHERE one would use a dynamic EQ.

I cant wrap my head around multiband compression at all. Dynamic eq seems easier to grasp but I'm having a hard time determining how and why it would be useful.

For something like sibilance I'd use a dedicated de-esser or just reduce it manually through editing. Same with plosives. Those are the only frequency dependent issues I can think of where a dynamic EQ would be useful but in my case redundant.
You know how a compressor works.
You hear something poking out here and there that you want to turn down. So you set the threshold for the 'turn it down above here' point. Set your attack for how quick it turns it down. Set your release for how gradually it lets the volume back up.

But... what if the thing you want to automate turning down is in a specific frequency band? And further what if there are things in other frequency bands that are often louder than the 'turn it down above here' point for the thing you are after? (The volume automation would hit wrong - based on the other loud thing - is what.)

So...
Let's split the frequency range into bands and put a compressor on each individual band! The multiband compressor is born.

A dynamic EQ is simply a single band of a multiband compressor.

You only use these tools when you specifically need to do surgery that way.

This is not a device for giving your mix a 'sound' or 'vibe'.
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Old 07-24-2015, 03:29 AM   #34
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So...
Let's split the frequency range into bands and put a compressor on each individual band! The multiband compressor is born.

A dynamic EQ is simply a single band of a multiband compressor.

You only use these tools when you specifically need to do surgery that way.

This is not a device for giving your mix a 'sound' or 'vibe'.
Well, that's oversimplifying just a bit, isn't it? A multiband compressor just limits the bandwidth of affected frequencies with a starting and stopping point, so one band might start at 1khz and stop at 5khz.

But a dynamic EQ's compression stage is affected by it's filter stage, and not just the bandwidth. A low shelf would obviously respond differently than a peak filter at the same center frequency, and the amount of boost or cut can change the shape of the filter before it hits the compression stage too, so it's like running a variable pre-emphasis EQ before a compressor in every band. I think a dynamic EQ is a bit more complex than a multiband comp, though how much difference it makes in practice is of course up for debate. Just IMO.
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Old 07-24-2015, 05:35 AM   #35
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Can do irreparable damage that can't be fixed later,
How so? If it makes the sound too funky just disable/remove it.

I don't understand the "can't be fixed" reference.
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Old 07-24-2015, 06:44 AM   #36
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Oh, forgot that one, good for Live 9 Standard users guess.
Why are you guys not using Reapers own modulation\routing huh huh? curious.
Because it is wide-band input, so for example to make a dynamic EQ out of ReaEQ using Parameter modulation requires you to also use an instance of EQ on every channel, one channel/EQ per band you wish to modulate.
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Old 07-24-2015, 06:51 AM   #37
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{ serr; Fergler } Been following this Thread (while still just 'getting feet wet') ....

Very glad to read your last two posts as they really do help put this in some understandable perspective! Some parts up for debate ? Great, and so be it.
I then get to learn even more.

Regards,
Thom B

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Old 07-24-2015, 07:49 AM   #38
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Fergler, I see, great! and thanks then atleast nothing is wrong with my way of doing things if I so wish, technically, like bugs or distortions, phase issues etc etc and what have I read others speak of.. ?

Like this: Tip

1: Put a song on track1.
2: Mute the track1's master, no sound.
3: Still on track1, Put JS 4-BandSplitter on it.
4: Make 4 new empty tracks and start with drag from track1's IO to track2's IO = 1/2 v 1/2.
5: Repeat, from track1 to track3, 3/4 v 1/2 ('new chan on sending track')
6: Repeat, from track1 to track4, 5/6 v 1/2 ('new chan on sending track')
7: Repeat, from track1 to track5, 7/8 v 1/2 ('new chan on sending track')

And of course I can fold away this and only put my fav amp on the higher band and compress the low and have fun, and what evs parameters to show, might go for wide, now Not wide, or verb, or all of above, it is totally up to the boss.
I am just so fond of this kind of control or 'unlimitless' creativity at my feet, that's all.

Ps, Fergler, I am writing like this because I figure it's a forum and others might be curious to know different ways, tricks etc, ok?
Now back to easedroppings (did i spell that right?)
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Old 07-24-2015, 08:40 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by The Telenator View Post
Dynamic EQs are possibly the most dangerous tool in digital audio when in the hands of a novice sound mixer. Can do irreparable damage that can't be fixed later, so I'm a little surprised to see it discussed so lightly. ... the thought of just a multiband compressor in the hands of someone with only a year or so experience is scary enough. Now let's give 'em a powerful EQ to go with that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firedance View Post
How so? If it makes the sound too funky just disable/remove it.

I don't understand the "can't be fixed" reference.
I was wondering that myself.

Either Telenator isn't down with non destructive editing, or it was a catastrophic failure of the self importance valve.
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Old 07-24-2015, 09:14 AM   #40
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Some shouldn't drive ever, or paint, or cook or..
Please I beg you all, be the curious little scientist you can be in your own phase for the rest of your life, try, test, trust your ears/results/instinct/audience/pets.. do not limit yourself to rules except, beeing in tune is generally good.
Have fun! or you have chosen the wrong 'hobby.
And if you Ever think you know it All, think again! (don't care if you are 200 years old) :P
I really appreciate All your input as long as it's not missleading on purpose.

Bonus Ps, a shout out to all the JS coders! Thanks!
*cheers*
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