Old 04-27-2019, 08:05 AM   #1
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Default Reaper V6 Default Theme - alpha 1.0

Please find attached the Alpha 1 of the Reaper V6 Default theme and its associated adjuster script. It is at a stage where it now needs rigorous testing so we can discuss its functionality, how it interacts with its script, and its many opportunities for future modding.

The Dawn of Script-able Themes

New REAPER functionality now allows the WALTER-able parts of a theme (Mixer, Track Panels, Env panels, Transport) to be altered by scripts. While this has no affect on the styling of themes, it has the potential to radically empower even the most casual of users to make useful changes to the functionality of the theme; sizing some elements like the track name field or simplifying panels by only showing some elements when they are relevant.

What I have here is both a theme and the script that adjusts it. While the two only work with each other, I have taken great pains to make it easy for future modders and scripters to alter and enhance either part.



This all makes use of functionality that is only currently present in development branches of the program, which are not included in RC or final releases. Therefore, you must be using a DEV version of REAPER to test this.

Use 'Options > Show REAPER resource path in explorer/finder' to open your resources folder. Place the theme (the .ReaperThemeZip file) in the 'ColorThemes' folder. Unzip the contents of script.zip into your 'Scripts' folder.

Go to 'Actions > Show action list'. In the bottom right, click the ReaScript Load button. Select 'Default_6.0 theme adjuster.lua' and click Open.


HiDPI(retina)

The theme uses the new (incomplete work in progress) REAPER HiDPI functionality. The theme has three sizes - 100%, 150%, 200% in the form of layouts. WALTER-controlled panels now automatically choose the appropriate layout size for the resolution of the monitor they are being displayed on, even across different monitors.


High Contrast, Bold Colors

A bolder contrast palette has been used throughout. OS-drawn and un-themable elements are as bright as they've always been, but this time rather than trying to blend in with them, an overall strong and punchy contrast range has been used throughout the theme. Tracks and panels are roughly the same brightness as they were in V5, but inactive and background elements have been made dark.

Custom colors are now exactly the color you chose. Everywhere. You may now use the full range of custom colors to highlight important tracks and dim less critical background tracks.

This likely means that any existing projects colored in with the V5 theme will have eye-searingly strong colors. This:



...will become this...



You'll want a quick and easy way to fix that, right? No problem. The script has a button to dim all the custom colors in a project:



you can then, if you wish, go through and use coloring to highlight the tracks that are on your mind...



Since the script is messing with your colors, it seemed like a golden opportunity to provide an easy way for you to apply color. I have made a choice of palettes with a simple 'click to apply to selected tracks' functionality.

Beyond this, I have also made it possible to totally recolor a project using the chosen palette. Which I'm sure you'll agree sounds like something you'd never want to do. However, its actually strangely pleasing and compelling, give it a try!



For reasons of consistency I have been spelling colour wrong both in this thread and within the script. And I have winced every time.


A,B,C - the three Layouts

My experience of watching REAPER users is that users don't necessarily want a huge choice of layouts; they just want a few that are right for them. This suggested an entirely different approach that the scripting makes possible.

The Track Control Panels and Mixer Control Panels each have three identical layouts, with a wide range of user-configurable properties. Setup your own layouts, select some tracks and apply them to taste.

As it stands, this will all only work reliably with tracks that have had layouts applied to them using the script.




Folders and Borders

Just like the Track Control Panels, the Mixer Control Panels can now indent tracks based on their folder depth. On both TCP and MCP the amount is adjustable using the script, from 'none' to 'surely that's too much'.



Users with large projects have been using the unsatisfying and risky practice of 'separator' tracks to break up their projects. On the mixer, here is a possible alternative : borders. You can apply a border to either edge of a layout, then apply that layout to a track at the start or end of a section, or you can tell tracks to automatically apply borders around folders.




Contextual Controls

One of the things that new users struggle with when first using REAPER is that, compared to other DAWS, it has more controls visible, they're always visible, and if the mixer is showing then they're all shown twice!

We now have the opportunity, if we're brave, to change that.

Both new users and veterans benefit from a clean, uncluttered range of potential things to click at any one time. Using contextual assumptions based on track selection, record mode and whether the mixer is visible, the script can (entirely optionally) hide elements from the TCP. If the track isn't armed, maybe the track input selector is just visual clutter. If you're doing your volume and panning on the mixer, maybe the pan controls and a full volume fader on the TCP are just visual clutter.

This powerful functionality is now here, we have much to discuss about how we deploy it.


Design Intent

As with the Default V5 theme, the design intent has been to follow the principles of data-driven high functionality design. Its not about looking cool at first glance, its about this being the most efficient theme it can be, that you're still using 5 years from now. So, is in V5, no two elements look the same, elements that do the same thing look the same wherever they appear, and as wide as possible a range of styling (from flat boxes all the way to big shiny chrome things) used to diferentiate elements, create a functionality-driven visual heirarchy to speed visual searching for key elements, and to create visual anchor elements to draw the eye to different sections.

I consider the visual styling of the theme to be pretty much final. I appologise again for not including the forum in this task, but we've learned the hard way that internet based design by commitee doesn't work, use the forum search tools if you don't believe me I have made use of my meatSpace Reaper community testers, so ...er.. if you don't like it, blame the Brits!


Other Nice Things
  • The script can be docked to provide the core of its functionality as part of your day-to-day workflow, if you wish.
  • Grid lines are now semi-transparent, so at last can be visible in all circumstances without needing to be eye-searingly bright.
  • The 'high-detail' toolbar icons of V5 have been reverted to a simplified style more like previous versions.
  • Mixer meters can now expand based on channel count, and their panels expand to fit them.
  • TCP track name fields can be set to 'auto' so they fit the largest track name in your project.
  • Track folder controls are now on the left, next to the indents, so that stuff all lives together.
  • The transport rate control is now out of the way where you're not going to accidentally nudge it, and you can also resize it using the script, all the way down to a knob if you choose.
  • Transport control right-click menu visual tweaks have been duplicated in the script for your convenience.


Bad, sad and unfinished things
  • I have attempted to include functionality to allow you to use the HiDPI sizes that are not being used at your current resolution, as layout options. The way I have done this has been universally hailed as confusing, unintuitive and somewhat broken. Big rethink needed there.
  • No scaling or script interaction yet on the master track or master mixer, waiting till the other panels are fully tested before approaching them.
  • The interaction between per-track layout assignments (which is what the script uses) and the existing 'default' layout assignments (as set in Options > Layouts or the Screensets/Layouts window) is extremely muddled and I'm not clear on which direction to take to resolve this. Your thoughts would be most welcome.
  • Expectation is that mixer strip layouts will NOT be included, my impression is that few users use them, and they would come at the cost of much greater complexity for new users. I encourage feedback on this decision, and I will make it as easy as possible for modders to add them in.
  • Drag & drop folder creation indicator is broken.
  • Mouse handling with images in the script is currently buggy/bad.
  • This is the first script I've ever written, and its alpha. When (not if, when!) it breaks, please share the error message you get
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Old 04-27-2019, 08:18 AM   #2
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Congratulations on a great milestone. It sounds like some nice things are in our future. Thanks!
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Old 04-27-2019, 08:18 AM   #3
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Well, this all sounds pretty great, I must say. Some really nice new additions here, and making it easier for the users to tweak theme elements is excellent!

I do wish we got more WALTERable sections of Reaper, though, along the way... For example, if we can WALTER the transport, why shouldn't we be able to WALTER the MIDI editor's transport? Etc.
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Old 04-27-2019, 08:44 AM   #4
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Just to be very clear : it is completely pointless to make Reaper feature requests to me.
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Old 04-27-2019, 08:48 AM   #5
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Thanks WT.
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Old 04-27-2019, 09:01 AM   #6
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Haleluljah!/Excited! Better do my damn laundry first *sigh* and then.. try this.
Both GIMP and Photoshop chose (Color) I think, but what evs about that.
Someone told me that it is a choice anyway according to the grammar LAW.
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Old 04-27-2019, 09:14 AM   #7
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Great news!Thanks for new opportunities!
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Old 04-27-2019, 08:54 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
Just to be very clear : it is completely pointless to make Reaper feature requests to me.
so just make them in the normal Reaper feature request forum?
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Old 04-27-2019, 08:50 AM   #9
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Yay! I can finally talk about this.

so many cool things you can do with this theme, still many you can't but still a great leap ahead with theming.

Things like:
hiding most of the controls unless track is selected
automatically expanding to a sidebar layout when selected
hide track controls if the mixer is visible
The folder indenting and borders are great visual guides
Love the selection of color palettes

There's also mouse-over help text for everything if you click the ? at the top.
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Old 04-27-2019, 12:39 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I do wish we got more WALTERable sections of Reaper, though, along the way... For example, if we can WALTER the transport, why shouldn't we be able to WALTER the MIDI editor's transport? Etc.
While I don't want to in any way take away from the extraordinary amount of work White Tie has obviously put in, I very much agree with EvilDragon that this would be a HUGE missed opportunity to not make as much as possible accessible in WALTER.

The truth of the matter is that as much work that has gone into this new default theme, most users are not going to use it. That is the reality. We all have our own preferences and in my case, I would simply never use this theme - it just doesn't visually appeal to me at all. Thus having access to as many parts of the theme as possible IMHO is more important than anything happening with the default theme.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
There are so many brilliant people here that are your customers that I find it sad (and arrogant) to not at ask the opinions of this wealth of users and THEN make your own decisions based on truly valuable and insightful input. I've noticed this behavior before and it's wrong imo. To not get their input before finalizing the design is no bueno.
I also wholeheartedly agree with the above. Not including the community in these decisions is a mistake. There are so many parts of Reaper that would not be even close to what they are if we didn't spend time hashing out what is really wanted/needed, different use cases, etc. Things like automation items. That doesn't happen without input from a LOT of different people. This should be no different.

Again, I don't want to take away from anything White Tie has done here. But when he says that he considers the visual styling to be pretty much final and that it's pointless to make feature requests to him, that comes across as both arrogant and completely un-Reaper like. This is a community and without input from the users, Reaper would not be where it is. There are so many talented people on this forum with so many good ideas that would be able to bring up issues one or two people on their own would have never thought of. Surely, a discussion topic for this would not have taken development completely off the rails. To me it just sounds like White Tie didn't want any user input whatsoever which I think is a huge mistake and a huge missed opportunity.

Just my two probably worthless cents...
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Old 04-30-2019, 06:19 PM   #11
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y ya que estamos... a mi me gustaría que tuviera una herramienta como el variaudio de cubase
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Old 05-01-2019, 12:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Invi View Post
y ya que estamos... a mi me gustaría que tuviera una herramienta como el variaudio de cubase
Wrong thread, and btw there is ReaTune that does the same thing...
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Old 04-27-2019, 09:31 PM   #13
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New style of the default looks cleaner to me.
I like the new Route button, but agree that M R S (or M S R) is a better choice for the default theme.
Like the idea of the new scripting function, but will have to play with it later.
Being able to reconfigure the layout on the fly is something I wanted to see for a while now.
Quote:
...borders. You can apply a border to either edge of a layout, then apply that layout to a track at the start or end of a section, or you can tell tracks to automatically apply border around folders.
love this! Thanks!
I gave up on my 'Spacer' layouts because it quickly expands the layout menu and makes the menu difficult to use.
Speaking of which...
Any chance sub-menus for the layout menu will be introduced in v6?

.
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Old 04-29-2019, 12:51 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
Mixer Control Panels can now indent tracks based on their folder depth
Love this!
Best of luck with new theme!

(I've been a v5 default theme user all the way)
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Old 04-29-2019, 02:50 AM   #15
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Havent used this theme yet,will later today.good work WT.

one thing where do we need to place the script?
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Old 04-29-2019, 03:12 AM   #16
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Havent used this theme yet,will later today.good work WT.

one thing where do we need to place the script?
just load the script from your Actions window, bottom area "Load"
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Old 04-29-2019, 04:00 AM   #17
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just load the script from your Actions window, bottom area "Load"
ok,so no problem in placing it in Reaper folder?
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Old 04-29-2019, 04:06 AM   #18
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ok,so no problem in placing it in Reaper folder?
Read the first post carefully. There is all the information.
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Old 04-29-2019, 04:53 AM   #19
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ok,so no problem in placing it in Reaper folder?
Scripts typically live in C:\Users\username\AppData\Roaming\REAPER\Scripts

but you can put them anywhere and load them from Actions window
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Old 04-29-2019, 05:16 AM   #20
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Scripts typically live in C:\Users\username\AppData\Roaming\REAPER\Scripts

but you can put them anywhere and load them from Actions window
Figured it out

have just tried loading the new theme,and the adjuster,it definatly needs some getting used to,but can see lots of Potentional.

First thing i noticed is,i Agree 100% to the scaling,there needs to be more options.i will have to test this more deeply with a real project

but apart from the scaling thing,i really like this at first glance
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Old 04-29-2019, 05:26 AM   #21
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Hi WT,
Thank you for that nice work.
I totally agree with your management of the GUI definition.
Each Reaper user has its own needs, ways and comprehension of the soft and so, its complains regarding the gui.Anyway, if some people don't like any button look, it's not that hard to replace it with ones they prefer.

The lua script is a very cool idea.
Is it possible to define through it special appearances for folder and VCA tracks ?
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Old 04-29-2019, 03:19 AM   #22
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The 150% upscaled looks fantastic on my 5k iMac but the 200% in mixer just makes it larger.., and at 150% when switch back and forth to mixer the mixer is larger for a split second but then goes back to normal scaled size.., and I hope like hell you upscale the master channel and icons and letters and numbers and everything else in Reaper because it all looks so blurry.

.

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Old 04-29-2019, 03:26 AM   #23
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Dear sirs who know what works,


will v6 themes bring with them Includes, as they are in programming ?


I ask because I posted a request just now (link) in the feature request section.

The purpose is to be able to add your own layouts without having to unpack the original theme, naturally at ones own risk. That way any improvements to the original theme can still be enjoyed without having to re-edit the rtconfig.txt and recopy images from the original, etc.

So, is that already in or part of the plan ? Don't be shy.
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Old 04-29-2019, 11:36 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post

For reasons of consistency I have been spelling colour wrong both in this thread and within the script. And I have winced every time.

I'd like to point out that many colours would look much different depending on monitor calibration...depending on the color it might look a little brownish...keeping things consistent is a very good thing.

.ps Sorry in advance!
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Old 05-02-2019, 03:47 PM   #25
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...OS-drawn and un-themable elements are as bright as they've always been...
I was hoping 6 might finally have been when we get rid of them
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Old 05-02-2019, 05:43 PM   #26
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I was hoping 6 might finally have been when we get rid of them
It will never happen until Reaper has their own window manager. So sad too. DP, Pro Tools, SONAR, Cubase, FL, Ableton. They all have their own non-OS window management. Looks nice and sleek with borders and clean GUI elements. Objective
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Old 05-03-2019, 02:02 AM   #27
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- You need a bold frame around the item so that you can clearly see where one is, where the next one is and the border between them.
- You need a brighter backlight for the selected track and there may be a frame around, now if they are colored, it’s not obvious which track is selected and active.
This is implemented well in Cubase for example.
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Old 05-03-2019, 04:22 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundstudio View Post
- You need a bold frame around the item so that you can clearly see where one is, where the next one is and the border between them.
- You need a brighter backlight for the selected track and there may be a frame around, now if they are colored, it’s not obvious which track is selected and active.
This is implemented well in Cubase for example.
Definitely agree on both of these

You can using the theme editor add a line at the top of the selected item but to have this extend all the way round and also same for the track would be great.

If you split an item the split is invisible.

Maybe this is again related to high res displays as the higher you go the more invisible a single pixel thick line is

That goes for the "hit areas" too for editing, they are getting way too small on anything above 1080p
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Old 05-03-2019, 04:34 AM   #29
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Some thoughts:

I personally find that 3 track designs are not enough. Are there plans to add more or the possibility to
add as many as we want by duplicating?

Would it be possible to hide the FX slots in the MCP on a track design basis?
For example: I would like to see the FX slots in my tracks and busses but not in VCAs,
because they don't make sense there. It would help tremendously to visually distinguish the
different track types.
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Old 05-03-2019, 04:37 AM   #30
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Quote:
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I personally find that 3 track designs are not enough. Are there plans to add more or the possibility to
add as many as we want by duplicating?
This one is really nice. Agreed.
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Old 05-03-2019, 05:02 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_ View Post
Some thoughts:

I personally find that 3 track designs are not enough. Are there plans to add more or the possibility to
add as many as we want by duplicating?

Would it be possible to hide the FX slots in the MCP on a track design basis?
For example: I would like to see the FX slots in my tracks and busses but not in VCAs,
because they don't make sense there. It would help tremendously to visually distinguish the
different track types.
Personally also think it seems abit limited
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Old 05-03-2019, 05:12 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_ View Post
For example: I would like to see the FX slots in my tracks and busses but not in VCAs, because they don't make sense there. It would help tremendously to visually distinguish the different track types.
Already asked for the hability to declare dedicated folder and VCA designs in the lua script.
Got no answer from WT yet, but I suppose he's got much to do...
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Old 05-03-2019, 05:18 AM   #33
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Well, it's not even that we need dedicated folder or VCA designs. The way it is right now is perfect actually. We can define what should be visible on each track type. It doesn't get any more flexible.
I just wish we had more designs and the same freedom in MCP as in TCP.
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Old 05-03-2019, 05:23 AM   #34
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Selected status, throughout, is very much preliminary. My initial thoughts:

- I got a lot of user feedback against the dots I used for this in V5, because they taught a lesson (dots mean selected) on the TCP/MCP that I didn't follow through on media items (because I can't). I totally agree with this, but none the less currently think I'm probably going to be pragmatic and bring them back. Its a compromise.

- Years ago we experimented with a 'triangles in one or more corners', which fell afoul of the the indenting mechanism we had then. This has now changed, so I'm going to look at that again at some point.

- Lines around media items is something we experimented a lot with back in the day; works great unless you're one of the minority of users who does a lot of microedits when it quickly becomes a total mess. That doesn't rule out doing things above/below (pseudo shadows etc) but the first thing to try is doing it entirely with colour. How this dovetails with doing full-strength custom colours is always going to be a problem, because obviously they could choose very bright colours. There is an argument to be made that the answer to "I chose colours that made things look awful and/or ruined the selected status read" is "well don't do that then" but I will continue to try to find a 'nanny state' solution.


---------

Other things:

Sometimes when you fix something, it becomes fixed. Other times, it becomes more broken. The script is currently in the latter state, please bare with me

I understand that many users are extremely conservative about any changes whatsoever to the MIDI editor, ever. This is the time when experiments happen, please approach it with an open mind, if past experience holds we'll probably revert all changes at the 11th hour anyway. Its worth trying.

To the people PMing me their feedback : that's fine, I understand why you don't want to do it here, though that is disappointing and I'd rather you did. Please understand that I'm not being rude when I don't reply, I simply don't have time for individual responses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Stevie_ View Post
Some thoughts:

I personally find that 3 track designs are not enough. Are there plans to add more or the possibility to
add as many as we want by duplicating?

Would it be possible to hide the FX slots in the MCP on a track design basis?
For example: I would like to see the FX slots in my tracks and busses but not in VCAs,
because they don't make sense there. It would help tremendously to visually distinguish the
different track types.
Please talk me through your workflow that leads you to need more than 3 layouts - because of the way this all works, it would be a big decision to add another one. However many I add will be one less than the number someone needs

The theme has no control over the 'extended mixer' (the FX slots) unless it takes total control, such as with the sidebar layout option.
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Old 05-03-2019, 06:02 AM   #35
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Maybe the micro edit thing could be solved with line thickness being adaptive like most of the item stuff now is or it disappears at a certain level.

Of course. Both of these would need Justin and Schwa involved I guess but it seems now is a good time for these big changes

It definitely one of the bigger issues I see day to day and in the new theme is making it super clear what (and what isn't) selected.

Add in the time selection as well and it's hard to do get something that works without some form of identify that is independent of colour.

The corners thing could work for tracks though
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Old 05-03-2019, 06:07 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
- Years ago we experimented with a 'triangles in one or more corners', which fell afoul of the the indenting mechanism we had then. This has now changed, so I'm going to look at that again at some point.
Is it possible to make it like it works, for example, on Reddit? And you can click that vertical line to hide the folder content.
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
works great unless you're one of the minority of users who does a lot of microedits when it quickly becomes a total mess.
Is it possible then to get those lines get away when item is shorter than x pixels?

P.S. And dots are great, thanks for adding them again!
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Old 05-03-2019, 06:49 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
S

- Lines around media items is something we experimented a lot with back in the day; works great unless you're one of the minority of users who does a lot of microedits when it quickly becomes a total mess. That doesn't rule out doing things above/below (pseudo shadows etc) but the first thing to try is doing it entirely with colour. How this dovetails with doing full-strength custom colours is always going to be a problem, because obviously they could choose very bright colours. There is an argument to be made that the answer to "I chose colours that made things look awful and/or ruined the selected status read" is "well don't do that then" but I will continue to try to find a 'nanny state' t is currently in the latter state, please bare with me
.
Isn't there a way of making the outlines on items just brighten the existing custom colour? Or is that now not possible due to their "full strength". It's the way I have Imperial set up at present here:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=181439
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Old 05-03-2019, 07:04 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post

I understand that many users are extremely conservative about any changes whatsoever to the MIDI editor, ever. This is the time when experiments happen, please approach it with an open mind, if past experience holds we'll probably revert all changes at the 11th hour anyway. Its worth trying.

To the people PMing me their feedback : that's fine, I understand why you don't want to do it here, though that is disappointing and I'd rather you did. Please understand that I'm not being rude when I don't reply, I simply don't have time for individual responses.
I'm not conservative concerning changes in the MIDI editor :P
The changes just need to make sense. The MIDI editor is a very delicate
area, because I (and some other folks) spend like 90% of my/their time there.

Things that absolutely need attention IMHO:

- events (notes and CCs) need to be clearly visible in any situation (events selected, muted or unselected).

- the grid should always be clearly visible in any grid setting (8th, 16th... triplet, dotted, etc...). Absolutely crucial!

- I personally prefer a darker MIDI editor, because it's easier on the eyes when working for several hours. Not too dark, could be grey-ish, too, but just not a plain white or a bright background as in v5.

- the pitch row color often gets neglected. It should have a color that still makes it visible in any situation but not making it too stand out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post

Please talk me through your workflow that leads you to need more than 3 layouts - because of the way this all works, it would be a big decision to add another one. However many I add will be one less than the number someone needs
Avec plaisir:
I'm using these different track "types":

- VST instruments:
visible elements: the whole shebang

- audio
visible elements: the whole shebang

- send FX
visible elements: name, FX button

- folders
visible elements: name, FX button, volume knob

- VCAs
visible elements: name, volume, automation

- AUX tracks like MTC, retrospective record, etc...
visible elements: name


Not sure if it'S clear by only digesting the list. But I'll elaborat a bit.

On VSTi and audio tracks I need all elements to be visible, because these tracks are the most flexible.

However, send FX only need the name and the FX button. I'll never change the volume on that track and having only the FX button on the track clearly visually states, that this is an send FX track.

Folders act like busses here. However, my sends will always be outside that folder, so I will rarely touch the volume here, because this would break the dry/wet ratio of the applied send FX.

VCAs only control the volume of groups, so I only need the name and a volume fader and automation here. Everything else is not useful.

And finally the AUX tracks, that host some "tool"-tracks, that don't need anything else than the name.

Hope this helps!
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Old 05-03-2019, 08:45 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
Selected status [...]
I got a lot of user feedback against the dots I used for this in V5
Though I like the dots approach, here's how I solved the track selection dilemma for my v4 theme mod I'm still using today:



In other words, the main bg part of each track stays untinted in all states, but the strip on the left is dimmed when unselected and colored white when selected.

So far I haven't had any problems discerning selected tracks.
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Old 05-07-2019, 01:40 PM   #40
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Please talk me through your workflow that leads you to need more than 3 layouts - because of the way this all works, it would be a big decision to add another one. However many I add will be one less than the number someone needs
1. Normal
2. Small
3. Sidebar
4. Separator

First three also have red fader versions which are turned on whenever I do something to those tracks that requires that layout (this is my personal contraption, would take too much text to explain how it works and I don't think it's relevant). So I actually use 6 layouts + separator layout.

So I would say 3 is a good number BUT some people might use some kind of folder layout. So I would say that these 4 layouts would be something that would cover most people's needs: Normal, small, sidebar, folder

Oh, and this is MPC wise! When it comes to TCP I just use one layout that enables me to have everything visible in one line. So can't comment on TCP xd
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