|
|
|
01-25-2023, 01:43 PM
|
#1
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,199
|
Easiest method for rendering to 432hz?
Hi all, I'm working on a project for an acupuncturist friend of mine who needs meditation tracks converted to 432hz. Don't want to get into a debate about the validity of 432hz vs. 440hz (I know a lot of people are very sensitive about it).
What's the easiest method? What should I set the master playrate to (if that's the easiest way), to get it accurately to 432hz? Or, should I just pitch the mix/rendered WAV to -.031 cents (SHIFT+9, 31 times) and re-render? I'm kind of new to this but just trying to figure out the easiest and most streamlined method, with Reaper.
Thank you so much!
|
|
|
01-25-2023, 01:50 PM
|
#2
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,185
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape
Hi all, I'm working on a project for an acupuncturist friend of mine who needs meditation tracks converted to 432hz. Don't want to get into a debate about the validity of 432hz vs. 440hz (I know a lot of people are very sensitive about it).
What's the easiest method? What should I set the master playrate to (if that's the easiest way), to get it accurately to 432hz? Or, should I just pitch the mix/rendered WAV to -.031 cents (SHIFT+9, 31 times) and re-render? I'm kind of new to this but just trying to figure out the easiest and most streamlined method, with Reaper.
Thank you so much!
|
Prolly just reapitch, shift -31.767 cents
|
|
|
01-25-2023, 01:51 PM
|
#3
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,220
|
Changing playrate will affect anything in your project that operates on the frequency domain: EQ, compressors..
Also MIDI won't change, if you have it. If you are just importing tracks and changing play-rate, this is fine.
Best to make this adjustment on a master and re-render if you have made changes to the tracks.
|
|
|
01-25-2023, 02:08 PM
|
#4
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,199
|
Thanks so much, I figured re-rendering the master file would be the best way for sure. Thanks, all!
|
|
|
01-25-2023, 02:09 PM
|
#5
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,199
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Stupid
Prolly just reapitch, shift -31.767 cents
|
Testing this out, I feel it sounds a bit artifact-y.... less so when re-rendering or changing the pitch of the audio with SHIFT+9... what's your experience?
|
|
|
01-25-2023, 02:32 PM
|
#6
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,185
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape
Testing this out, I feel it sounds a bit artifact-y.... less so when re-rendering or changing the pitch of the audio with SHIFT+9... what's your experience?
|
Not much, I don't do much pitch shifting.
Is this multitrack audio, already recorded/mastered songs, or what?
|
|
|
01-25-2023, 02:34 PM
|
#7
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Swiss Zürich
Posts: 845
|
Do nothing.
Tell him it's changed to 432.
Nobody will complain.
It's fine.
|
|
|
01-25-2023, 02:42 PM
|
#8
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,293
|
So ahh…
Code:
X * 440 = 432
X = 432 / 440
Turn off “preserve pitch” change playrate. It’ll get a little slower, but I doubt anybody will notice.
|
|
|
01-25-2023, 04:07 PM
|
#9
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: L.A. Cahleefornia
Posts: 305
|
Turn off Preserve Pitch.
Set item play rate to .9818.
That will expand the item slightly so make sure you adjust the item's trailing edge to get all the file in.
Last edited by magicchord; 01-25-2023 at 04:20 PM.
|
|
|
01-26-2023, 12:08 PM
|
#10
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,467
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaby
Do nothing.
Tell him it's changed to 432.
Nobody will complain.
It's fine.
|
+ 1
|
|
|
01-26-2023, 12:33 PM
|
#11
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,199
|
That's not very honest.... but thx for the proper tips, all!
|
|
|
01-26-2023, 01:08 PM
|
#12
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,787
|
Quote:
Turn off Preserve Pitch.
Set item play rate to .9818.
That will expand the item slightly so make sure you adjust the item's trailing edge to get all the file in.
|
Yeah... When you change speed and pitch together (like slowing-down a viny record or analog tape) it's straightforward and artifact-free.
The listener is unlikely to hear the slight speed-tempo change. Usually this kind of thing is only noticed by musicians (as a pitch change) when they can't play in-tune with their standard-tuned instruments.
Changing tempo & pitch independently is "mathematically difficult" and you sometimes get artifacts/side-effects. It's done with FFT and as far as I know, it was impossible in the analog days.
[b]BTW -[b] The vast majority of music is tuned to the A=440Hz standard but if one isn't, of course you can't use the standard formula. Sometimes the speed is changed, making the pitch to something "random". There are some Beatles recordings where they were playing around with tape speed.... If I remember what I read.... The purpose was to change the tempo and they just accepted & lived with the resulting pitch change.
And some bands (probably metal?) think it's cool to use 432Hz.
Last edited by DVDdoug; 01-26-2023 at 01:14 PM.
|
|
|
01-26-2023, 02:01 PM
|
#13
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 680
|
Oh in the 'analogue days' we used to FM modulate then demodulate with a changed oscillator frequency.
There were even some commercial units that were designed to do that to reduce feedback.
|
|
|
01-26-2023, 02:07 PM
|
#14
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 1,135
|
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that simply changing the pitch to 432hz is NOT the same as tuning the instruments to 432hz and recording them that way at the source.
Tuning and recording at 432Hz from the source will ensure that all of the instruments and vocals are in the proper frequency range and will create a cohesive sound.
Changing the pitch of a finished song will likely result in some degree of distortion, particularly in the vocals and other high-frequency elements. Additionally, it is possible that some instruments may not sound in tune with each other when the pitch is changed, as they were not originally recorded at that pitch.
Of course, I'm sure the acupuncturist won't care and will actually think he's getting the perceived "benefit" of 432hz (which I'm not disputing or promoting). Placebo is a real thing.
Last edited by Frank Lee Scarlett; 01-26-2023 at 02:17 PM.
|
|
|
01-26-2023, 02:19 PM
|
#15
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: On my arse in Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 2,053
|
Inacupunture, then.
|
|
|
01-26-2023, 02:24 PM
|
#16
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 462
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape
Hi all, I'm working on a project for an acupuncturist friend of mine who needs meditation tracks converted to 432hz. Don't want to get into a debate about the validity of 432hz vs. 440hz (I know a lot of people are very sensitive about it).
What's the easiest method? What should I set the master playrate to (if that's the easiest way), to get it accurately to 432hz? Or, should I just pitch the mix/rendered WAV to -.031 cents (SHIFT+9, 31 times) and re-render? I'm kind of new to this but just trying to figure out the easiest and most streamlined method, with Reaper.
Thank you so much!
|
You need to use a spectrum analyzer to check the frequency of the fundamental of the instrument you're using to generate the 432Hz tone. So you'd solo this instrument and watch the analyzer to see where the fundamental is and then adjust accordingly until it is ~ 432 Hz. Voxengo SPAN is a nice, free analyzer you can use for this.
|
|
|
01-26-2023, 02:42 PM
|
#17
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,293
|
What if it’s in a key with no A naturals?!?
Edit - Better yet literally just noise! The soothing sounds of surf and wind through the leaves, but at 432…somehow…
|
|
|
01-26-2023, 03:26 PM
|
#18
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,199
|
No artifacts from what I can hear. Compared extensively. Just sounds slower, and pitched slightly down, as it should.
Thanks all!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee Scarlett
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that simply changing the pitch to 432hz is NOT the same as tuning the instruments to 432hz and recording them that way at the source.
Tuning and recording at 432Hz from the source will ensure that all of the instruments and vocals are in the proper frequency range and will create a cohesive sound.
Changing the pitch of a finished song will likely result in some degree of distortion, particularly in the vocals and other high-frequency elements. Additionally, it is possible that some instruments may not sound in tune with each other when the pitch is changed, as they were not originally recorded at that pitch.
Of course, I'm sure the acupuncturist won't care and will actually think he's getting the perceived "benefit" of 432hz (which I'm not disputing or promoting). Placebo is a real thing.
|
|
|
|
01-26-2023, 03:35 PM
|
#19
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 1,135
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape
No artifacts from what I can hear. Compared extensively. Just sounds slower, and pitched slightly down, as it should.
Thanks all!
|
It's not the same thing. He's not getting the "effect" that he thinks he's getting by doing it this way. That's not even disputable. But, hey, knock yourself out. You're the one that said "That wouldn't be honest".
|
|
|
01-26-2023, 03:42 PM
|
#20
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,199
|
No need to be rude, man. It's a paid job, I'm working and being as professional as possible. The original tracks were not recorded at 432hz as a friend of his made them years ago, and he wanted everything converted.
|
|
|
01-26-2023, 04:08 PM
|
#21
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 378
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee Scarlett
Changing the pitch of a finished song will likely result in some degree of distortion, particularly in the vocals and other high-frequency elements. Additionally, it is possible that some instruments may not sound in tune with each other when the pitch is changed, as they were not originally recorded at that pitch.
|
In theory there may be an extremely small chance of additional distortion due to the sample rate conversion but if you choose R8Brain as your SRC you won't notice anything.
In addition, lowering the frequency would have the effect of making acoustic instruments appear slightly larger as any resonances due to the size of the instrument will be lowered. This would be most apparent with familiar human voices which is why we use formant corrected pitch shifting for larger pitch shifts.
However, a small pitch change due to slowing down the playback is unlikely to show up any problem artefacts.
If you really want to make sure that the output is at the correct pitch you could use Izotope RX's Wow and Flutter module which has the option to repitch to a specific tuning.
|
|
|
01-26-2023, 04:20 PM
|
#22
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,090
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee Scarlett
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that simply changing the pitch to 432hz is NOT the same as tuning the instruments to 432hz and recording them that way at the source.
Tuning and recording at 432Hz from the source will ensure that all of the instruments and vocals are in the proper frequency range and will create a cohesive sound.
Changing the pitch of a finished song will likely result in some degree of distortion, particularly in the vocals and other high-frequency elements. Additionally, it is possible that some instruments may not sound in tune with each other when the pitch is changed, as they were not originally recorded at that pitch.
Of course, I'm sure the acupuncturist won't care and will actually think he's getting the perceived "benefit" of 432hz (which I'm not disputing or promoting). Placebo is a real thing.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape
No need to be rude, man. It's a paid job, I'm working and being as professional as possible. The original tracks were not recorded at 432hz as a friend of his made them years ago, and he wanted everything converted.
|
Frank Lee Scarlett is not being rude. He's actually being honest about the very thing that is important to your paying client. The whole theory behind using 432 Hz for meditative music involves frequency vibration and how they affect living beings. Converting pitch or speed in audio will give you decent results, but not the theoretical "cosmic" results that recording music at 432 Hz brings. If you are intent on honesty, my opinion is that you should tell the client to either give you music properly recorded for the intended purposes, or do the work but tell them that you are doing what they want but are not suggesting that it will have any of the intended value. My opinion.
__________________
The Sounds of the Hear and Now.
|
|
|
01-26-2023, 05:46 PM
|
#23
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,090
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Frown
You're forgetting the most important parts. It only works if you use the correct healing crystals and you have to make sure Venus isn't in retrograde. Oh and don't forget to hang a mirror opposite the front door to scare away evil spirits.
|
There is no reason to get insulting. People have many wildly varying opinions about spirituality and philosophy. I've heard that even art falls victim to this absurd behavior of choice and taste. Maybe someday we will even have different kinds of music made by people from all over the globe.....
__________________
The Sounds of the Hear and Now.
|
|
|
01-26-2023, 05:55 PM
|
#24
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,167
|
yeah ......
Pink Floyd's 'Dark Side of the Moon' - Ref Tuning - 432Hz
"The classic rock release racked up an unprecedented 950 weeks on the Billboard 200. No album has ever spent that much time on the chart. In fact, none has ever come even close to doing so."
Just imagine how long it could have been, had they used 'proper' Western tuning ...
not to forget Mozart, Verdi ...
Consider it payback to those with 'perfect pitch'
|
|
|
01-26-2023, 08:30 PM
|
#25
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,199
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43
Frank Lee Scarlett is not being rude. He's actually being honest about the very thing that is important to your paying client. The whole theory behind using 432 Hz for meditative music involves frequency vibration and how they affect living beings. Converting pitch or speed in audio will give you decent results, but not the theoretical "cosmic" results that recording music at 432 Hz brings. If you are intent on honesty, my opinion is that you should tell the client to either give you music properly recorded for the intended purposes, or do the work but tell them that you are doing what they want but are not suggesting that it will have any of the intended value. My opinion.
|
Well, his friend who did the music passed away. So, there's no possibility of re-doing the tracks, sadly.
Thanks for your help. Be kind, always. Pay it forward, folks.
|
|
|
01-26-2023, 11:11 PM
|
#26
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 3,204
|
To be honest I don't foresee a lot of pitch shift artifacts from a 31 cent change. Sometimes it isn't brain surgery...
|
|
|
01-27-2023, 12:26 AM
|
#27
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,776
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaby
Do nothing.
Tell him it's changed to 432.
Nobody will complain.
It's fine.
|
This !
While there are some very few people that have an extreme perfect pitch hearing, that might be able to tell, it seems extremely unlikely that evolution led men to feel different with sounds in certain very exact pitches. Sounds in nature (e.g. the speech of a predator) always vary in pitch quite a lot.
OTOH, just the knowledge of being cared for DOES help !
-Michael
Last edited by mschnell; 01-27-2023 at 12:43 AM.
|
|
|
02-01-2023, 07:04 AM
|
#28
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,220
|
Some of you are talking about pitch shifting, some are talking about rate shifting (artefact free). Frank Lee seems to think you're talking about pitch shifting, but the conclusion was to use rate shifting. So yes he's barking up the wrong tree. Now go get deliver and get paid.
|
|
|
02-02-2023, 11:03 PM
|
#29
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 6
|
KUDOS TO THIS PERSON, SERIOUSLY!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaby
Do nothing.
Tell him it's changed to 432.
Nobody will complain.
It's fine.
|
WELL SAID MY FRIEND, I WOULD VET YOUR CLIENT TO VERIFY THEY CAN EVEN TELL THE DIFFERENCE. DON'T QUITE KNOW WHO YOU WOULD EMPLOY TO ACT AS MODERATOR OF SUCH STUDY BUT THATS WHERE I WOULD START BEFORE PUTTING ON A RABBIT SUIT
|
|
|
02-03-2023, 01:44 AM
|
#30
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: It is season dependant.
Posts: 755
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockjr1981
WELL SAID MY FRIEND, I WOULD VET YOUR CLIENT TO VERIFY THEY CAN EVEN TELL THE DIFFERENCE. DON'T QUITE KNOW WHO YOU WOULD EMPLOY TO ACT AS MODERATOR OF SUCH STUDY BUT THATS WHERE I WOULD START BEFORE PUTTING ON A RABBIT SUIT
|
Unless the client goes measuring things.
So you hear a trumpet on the initial unmodified song and the tuner says 440 Hz.
Then you play the fake 432 Hz track and the trumpet is also at 440 Hz.
What would happen next ?
Regardless, loyalty is a good thing to forge and preserve.
Take it as a master tuning for our minds. Even when one might go thinking nobody will ever notice.
Last edited by F1308; 02-03-2023 at 01:56 AM.
|
|
|
02-03-2023, 02:57 AM
|
#31
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,520
|
People here won't give shit to people who say vinyl is warmer. Or to those that think that superexpensive SSL plugin is doing something that it really isn't.
But you're ready to complain about someone doing their job properly? Jeez!
I don't think the OP said this was for him, did he? Or that he believes in it? Just that he was doing the job for a client.
|
|
|
02-03-2023, 04:27 AM
|
#32
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: It is season dependant.
Posts: 755
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pink Wool
People here won't give shit to people who say vinyl is warmer. Or to those that think that superexpensive SSL plugin is doing something that it really isn't.
But you're ready to complain about someone doing their job properly? Jeez!
I don't think the OP said this was for him, did he? Or that he believes in it? Just that he was doing the job for a client.
|
I am not talking about "believe in", everybody's own business, but on believing you are receiving what you have been asking for.
So if the client wanted 432 Hz as the master tuning, and regardless of the result it might actually return, the track should have be adjusted accordingly, to the best of my understanding, and not presented untouched, as it is (440 or whatever), based on the wrong thinking nobody will notice as some people hereabouts have proposed.
It is 2023 and although I cannot say if pressure today is 1023 or 995 hPa, I can measure it.
|
|
|
02-03-2023, 05:40 AM
|
#33
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: Göppingen, Deutschland
Posts: 335
|
HI
In History Orchestras did tune in any way, for example Mozarts Tuning Fork had 426 Hertz, Wagners 456 cause both (and much more) Composers were very happy with their Tuning!
And they all had different until it was fixed to 440.
So I don't think different Tunings have any effect on human beings.
It just sounds deeper with lower overtones and not as harsh as with Wagner with higher pitch and higher Overtones, a bit more agressiv.
If Composers wanted to sound warmer they will write it a half or more steps down!
But for " themixtape" it's important to do his work and the client is happy.
I often do mix some strange things but if they are paid, why not.
Greetz
Bassman.
|
|
|
02-03-2023, 06:17 AM
|
#34
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: It is season dependant.
Posts: 755
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassman002
HI
In History Orchestras did tune in any way, for example Mozarts Tuning Fork had 426 Hertz, Wagners 456 cause both (and much more) Composers were very happy with their Tuning!
And they all had different until it was fixed to 440.
So I don't think different Tunings have any effect on human beings.
It just sounds deeper with lower overtones and not as harsh as with Wagner with higher pitch and higher Overtones, a bit more agressiv.
If Composers wanted to sound warmer they will write it a half or more steps down!
But for " themixtape" it's important to do his work and the client is happy.
I often do mix some strange things but if they are paid, why not.
Greetz
Bassman.
|
The tuning fork was invented by John Shore in 1711 and it had a pitch of 423.5.
The effect on mood might be produced by using different scales, of course, regardless of tuning or as an addition to it. The higher the master tuning, the brighter the music, the lower ones being too obscure.
Although it is all dependant on the composer purposes, isn't it ?
|
|
|
02-03-2023, 07:12 AM
|
#35
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Jersey shore
Posts: 308
|
I'm not one to jump on anyone's belief systems, especially when someone just wants to meet a contractual obligation to a client... so either pitch-shift by 32 cents or slow the whole thing down to 98.2% of its original speed.
But it's interesting that there are some historical facts we can look at objectively: e.g. Mozart (and Haydn Beethoven for that matter) tuned to A = 421.6 Hz. We know that because the same piano builder was responsible for all three of their pianos, and his personal tuning fork exists to this day. Handel's tuning fork also still exists and was also measured at around 422 Hz.
Verdi did spec out 432 Hz at some times and 435 at others, but stated that it was to save sopranos' voices as tuning standards were trending up towards 440 Hz.
And any claims about precise measured frequencies pre-dating Verdi are nonsense...prior to the 1830s, there was no accurate way to measure pitch at an accuracy of 1 Hz, much less fractions of a Hz.
|
|
|
02-03-2023, 08:13 AM
|
#36
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,969
|
__________________
it's meant to sound like that...
|
|
|
02-03-2023, 08:35 AM
|
#37
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: It is season dependant.
Posts: 755
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMcK
I'm not one to jump on anyone's belief systems, especially when someone just wants to meet a contractual obligation to a client... so either pitch-shift by 32 cents or slow the whole thing down to 98.2% of its original speed.
But it's interesting that there are some historical facts we can look at objectively: e.g. Mozart (and Haydn Beethoven for that matter) tuned to A = 421.6 Hz. We know that because the same piano builder was responsible for all three of their pianos, and his personal tuning fork exists to this day. Handel's tuning fork also still exists and was also measured at around 422 Hz.
Verdi did spec out 432 Hz at some times and 435 at others, but stated that it was to save sopranos' voices as tuning standards were trending up towards 440 Hz.
And any claims about precise measured frequencies pre-dating Verdi are nonsense...prior to the 1830s, there was no accurate way to measure pitch at an accuracy of 1 Hz, much less fractions of a Hz.
|
Far from saying they had the technology to measure frequencies, but we can today.
Same goes for that conch dated 18000 years ago. They played it, and we know what tones were made.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...nds-180976977/
|
|
|
02-04-2023, 01:22 AM
|
#39
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: It is season dependant.
Posts: 755
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Frown
New rule: All threads eventually turn into an autism fest.
|
My Roland Fantom 8 can be tuned 415.3–466.2, meaning it just moves the scale one semitone up or down from 440.
|
|
|
02-06-2023, 07:45 PM
|
#40
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Sweden
Posts: 206
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee Scarlett
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that simply changing the pitch to 432hz is NOT the same as tuning the instruments to 432hz and recording them that way at the source.
Tuning and recording at 432Hz from the source will ensure that all of the instruments and vocals are in the proper frequency range and will create a cohesive sound.
Changing the pitch of a finished song will likely result in some degree of distortion, particularly in the vocals and other high-frequency elements. Additionally, it is possible that some instruments may not sound in tune with each other when the pitch is changed, as they were not originally recorded at that pitch.
Of course, I'm sure the acupuncturist won't care and will actually think he's getting the perceived "benefit" of 432hz (which I'm not disputing or promoting). Placebo is a real thing.
|
This. Just pitching a song down is not the same thing. There's a reason many guitarist like their Stratocasters D tuned. It'a about the instruments voicing, not pitching a song.
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:58 PM.
|