Old 07-10-2006, 12:25 AM   #1
Andywanders
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Default Nasty automation bug

With automation modes it seems it is not possible to have only one or two tracks automated in, let's say an eight track song. It's either all tracks automated, or none.

By this I mean that although the envelopes work on channels when automation is off (you can hear the changes but not see them, which in itself is confusing as automation is "off"), when using other automation modes (Play faders with envelopes, Record faders to armed envelopes) it's not possible to adjust non-automated channel faders (channels without track envelopes set) - they just spring back to 0dB.

So if you have a few tracks recorded and you just want to automate 2 or 3 of them, you have to do it with the track envelopes and automation turned off (weird). If you want to ride the fader to set automation, then you have to automate ALL the tracks unless you're happy with them all at 0dB. Sorry to have to say this but if that's not a bug, then it's just plain stupid.

Every other audio software I've used allows the user to decide which tracks are automated and which aren't. While REAPER can do this with track envelopes (automation mode off - joke), it won't show the changes on the mixer.

The whole automation thing in REAPER is badly implemented and totally confusing and definitely needs a complete re-think in my opinion. Just look at any other DAW for inspiration in this regard.

Apart from that small gripe, I love it. :-))
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Old 07-10-2006, 12:58 AM   #2
Art Evans
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Not a bug - it's the way it's designed, which is different.

Personally until your post this hadn't struck me as an issue, and I don't rcall anyone mentioning it before (can't remember everything, though!).

If I'm not using envelopes on a track, then I don't mind the fader being automated but staying put. If I want to use the faders independently of the automation, then I don't have them following the automation and just watch the envelopes. If they are following the automation, then if I want to adjust a fader, I'd want that included in the automation anyway (else why move it?) so I'd either record the move or draw the envelope.

But yes, I can imagine that it could be more flexible if the automation selection button in the transport only applied to currently highlighted tracks. So you could thereby have different states per track if you wanted, or highlight the lot and activate them all.

Or... leave it global as is, but the faders could remain active when in automation mode (following automation) so if moved (by way of balance experiment) they would temporarily alter the balance before springing back when you let go, without changing the envelope.

Generally the automation seems incomplete at present - for instance you can't record effects automation, only draw it. And there's the odd feature that you can record a range of fader automation that can't be edited or displayed with the envelopes on the screen.
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Old 07-10-2006, 01:25 AM   #3
Andywanders
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans
Not a bug - it's the way it's designed, which is different.

Personally until your post this hadn't struck me as an issue, and I don't rcall anyone mentioning it before (can't remember everything, though!).
Fair enough.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans

If I'm not using envelopes on a track, then I don't mind the fader being automated but staying put. If I want to use the faders independently of the automation, then I don't have them following the automation and just watch the envelopes. If they are following the automation, then if I want to adjust a fader, I'd want that included in the automation anyway (else why move it?) so I'd either record the move or draw the envelope.
Again, fair enough.

But (sometimes) I want to automate some tracks AND be able to adjust faders on non-automated tracks AND watch the faders change position, because that's how I like to build a mix. The envelopes only show one thing at a time and the resoloution is too small anyway. Plus, you have to scan the timeline to see/follow them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans

But yes, I can imagine that it could be more flexible if the automation selection button in the transport only applied to currently highlighted tracks. So you could thereby have different states per track if you wanted, or highlight the lot and activate them all.

Or... leave it global as is, but the faders could remain active when in automation mode (following automation) so if moved (by way of balance experiment) they would temporarily alter the balance before springing back when you let go, without changing the envelope.
Or just have a simple button on each mixer channel with the settings - 'Read' - 'Write' - 'Overwrite' - 'Off'.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans

Generally the automation seems incomplete at present - for instance you can't record effects automation, only draw it. And there's the odd feature that you can record a range of fader automation that can't be edited or displayed with the envelopes on the screen.
Agreed. It needs re-thinking.

Cheers, Andy M.
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