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Old 10-15-2014, 07:11 AM   #1
London-Recording-Studio
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Default How to get a great Vocal Recording in your recording studio

I run a recording studio at http://www.joulesproductions.co.uk in London. From there I have had Top-20 chart success over the years, including 3 in 2014.

I am often asked how I gain such a great vocal production. So, reckoned I should share this.

Firstly, it is vital to have a great voice, sound card, microphone, mic position, acoustics, harmonies, double ups, dynamic compression/limiting and various other effects.

The Voice: Firstly, vocalists have to be able to sing in tune (ideally) and be rhythmically sorted. If it is slightly out of tune or time, there are pieces of software to fix these, both very mechanically or manually where it is more human. My preferred method is the human way, with Melodyne.

Soundcard: Using the onboard mic in and headphone out there is always background noise. Using a sound card, you will notice that it is much quieter.

Microphones: In my studio, I have owned a number of mics over the years as a music producer - many high end and others not so high, depending on the type of voice.

Here is a list of mics I have own and used, from low to high specs:
Shure SM58/57, Thomann SC800, Rode NT2, Neumann U87 and an AKG C12 (1950s).
Out of these, you can imagine that the C12 simply rocks; considering the specs. Anything from the Thomann and above however are good. The reason for this is that they are condenser microphones, which have a wide diaphragm and powered for sensitivity purposes. The higher frequencies are more audible with these, rather than the non powered ones.

Positioning: Insure to be up to a foot away and not too close. Listen for the best position and be directly in front of the capsule.

Acoustics: Ideally, a space that has carpet or soundproofed walls is ideal so that room effects can be added later in the processing.

Dynamic Compression/Limiting: To keep the levels from not peaking or from being too quiet, compression and limiters are used and vital.

Various Effects: In the aux sends I often use a reverb (1.8s in time and a late start), various delays (1/4, 1/8, 1/16th notes) and an vocal exciter (chorus). Using the aux sends are always good so that you can apply as much as you need for the track.

Sensitivity and experimentation is the way forwards for all this.

Best of luck
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Last edited by London-Recording-Studio; 10-15-2014 at 08:18 AM. Reason: Harmonies harmonies harmonies!
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Old 10-15-2014, 01:25 PM   #2
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Nice commercial spam.. not really anything here that stands out though..
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Old 10-15-2014, 01:58 PM   #3
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Normally it is the bread and butter base that stands the test
I thought that was well written. Very good thoughts for the person who is looking for stable advice and a place to start.
Very handy.

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Old 10-15-2014, 04:53 PM   #4
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OK info except for the compression/limiting. If you're using good equipment for a digital recording, there's no reason to diminish your dynamic range while tracking. There's no reason to record "hot" if the source noise floor (the room when no vocal is present) is higher than your equipment noise (mic, interface, computer). It can always be turned up (and compressed, if desired) during mixing. So keep the tracking levels down to a level where there is absolutely no risk of clipping. This of course assumes you're at a high enough level for you mic preamp to be putting out a good clean signal.
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Old 10-17-2014, 02:38 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Baer View Post
OK info except for the compression/limiting. If you're using good equipment for a digital recording, there's no reason to diminish your dynamic range while tracking. There's no reason to record "hot" if the source noise floor (the room when no vocal is present) is higher than your equipment noise (mic, interface, computer).
Agreed when tracking, though undoubtedly for monitoring and post mixing it is important for a great vocal sound to stop things from zipping out of the speakers unexpectedly
I record hot actually, with an LA2A limiter
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Old 10-17-2014, 08:29 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by London-Recording-Studio View Post
Acoustics: Ideally, a space that has carpet or soundproofed walls is ideal so that room effects can be added later in the processing.
It seems that the studios I've been in that have isolated vocal booths rarely use the booth, and prefer to track vocals in a more live sounding room. I assume this is because the sound of an actual room with decent acoustics is arguably preferable to that of a dry vocal recording with artificial reverb added after the fact. What's your take on this?

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OK info except for the compression/limiting. If you're using good equipment for a digital recording, there's no reason to diminish your dynamic range while tracking.
And there's no reason NOT to use gentle compression during tracking to slightly reduce peaks. People talk about compression as if it's too difficult to use in real time without accidentally ruining your tracks. If you use compression sparingly (like maybe 3:1 ratio and 3 db maximum gain reduction), there's no risk of over-compressing - it only helps keep things more level. Vocal tracks almost always have TOO MUCH dynamic range to begin with, so it makes sense to begin managing dynamics during the tracking stage.

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I record hot actually, with an LA2A limiter
What does this mean - "recording hot"?
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Old 10-17-2014, 04:11 PM   #7
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to get a great vocal recording you have to have a great personality in front of the mic, that knows how to do it - the singing I mean. thats 99% of it. the rest is what you have listed. so there is a rest of 1% that must be covered by equipment, room and such.

your rules only say, that all has to be ok. fine, thats what I knew before. sooooo ... ???

question in a forum from a user: "what have I to use to get such a great vocal recording like in Frank Sinatras "summerwind"?" answer: "Frankieboy"

you know what I mean, you played name dropping, and all you listed is as unprecise as anything can be. that will give noone the slightest clue what to do except that its the always same story: if your recordings suck, buy new gear. and its the wrong way and wrong advice as always. so IMO your post is completely pointless.
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Old 10-17-2014, 04:35 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe View Post
to get a great vocal recording you have to have a great personality in front of the mic, that knows how to do it - the singing I mean. thats 99% of it. the rest is what you have listed. so there is a rest of 1% that must be covered by equipment, room and such.

your rules only say, that all has to be ok. fine, thats what I knew before. sooooo ... ???

question in a forum from a user: "what have I to use to get such a great vocal recording like in Frank Sinatras "summerwind"?" answer: "Frankieboy"

you know what I mean, you played name dropping, and all you listed is as unprecise as anything can be. that will give noone the slightest clue what to do except that its the always same story: if your recordings suck, buy new gear. and its the wrong way and wrong advice as always. so IMO your post is completely pointless.
That is all very true but the one thing that hasn't really been mentioned by the OP is that if you have been in the recording business long enough you will soon realise that you are at the mercy of the next untalented clown that has the money to walk through your door. He usually doesn't have that 99% voice and is lucky to bring 1% to the table. Quite frankly anyone with some half decent gear and a half decent room can record someone who has that 99% voice and make it sound good but lets get back to the real world where you have to have some real talent to make the 'talent' sound like they actually have talent and still stay in business
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Old 10-18-2014, 02:45 AM   #9
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That is all very true but the one thing that hasn't really been mentioned by the OP is that if you have been in the recording business long enough you will soon realise that you are at the mercy of the next untalented clown that has the money to walk through your door. He usually doesn't have that 99% voice and is lucky to bring 1% to the table. Quite frankly anyone with some half decent gear and a half decent room can record someone who has that 99% voice and make it sound good but lets get back to the real world where you have to have some real talent to make the 'talent' sound like they actually have talent and still stay in business
that is very true.

but I was speaking of the average folk around here. assuming, in this forum are no clowns, but real interested people seeking and giving advice to one another. :-)) on a wide spread level, meaning there are lots of starters. we all have been starters, and what I remember from my starting days in the mid 70s - where there was literally no information around, only guessing and rumoring - was the same as nowadays: you ask 20 people about a topic and you will get 40 different answers, all pointing to some gear you should buy. and thats the complete wrong path and wrong advise. it doesnt come to the underlying point: the music and the talent.

its a complete different thing when someone talks to people running a business in music. them you dont need to give these advices. they know for themselves, and these advices are way tooo plain, no information beside the fact, that the OP plays name dropping and gives his references as a hit-producer, which, honestly, I would have be quiet about in this partucular forum. its not a good thing to tell others that one is accountable for some of the crap in the charts blarring out of radios. I would tell nobody if I had produced some of that bullshit. so the references are not references, just the opposite.

as someone said, this thread seems to be spam and name dropping. nothing more.
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Old 10-18-2014, 02:51 AM   #10
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I would have be quiet about in this partucular forum. its not a good thing to tell others that one is accountable for some of the crap in the charts blarring out of radios. I would tell nobody if I had produced some of that bullshit. so the references are not references, just the opposite.
ROFLMAO

Love it LOL
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Old 10-18-2014, 03:36 AM   #11
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ROFLMAO

Love it LOL
And you bumped into me there!
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Old 10-18-2014, 06:02 AM   #12
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you know what I mean, you played name dropping, and all you listed is as unprecise as anything can be. that will give noone the slightest clue what to do except that its the always same story: if your recordings suck, buy new gear. and its the wrong way and wrong advice as always. so IMO your post is completely pointless.
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...the OP plays name dropping and gives his references as a hit-producer, which, honestly, I would have be quiet about in this partucular forum. its not a good thing to tell others that one is accountable for some of the crap in the charts blarring out of radios. I would tell nobody if I had produced some of that bullshit. so the references are not references, just the opposite.

as someone said, this thread seems to be spam and name dropping. nothing more.
That's pretty harsh, dude. This guy has had some success with his recordings, and is interested in sharing some of his techniques with the rest of us, but before the thread is barely started, you're shutting him down by insulting him. Some of us here are still trying to learn some things, so if you're too good for this thread, there's plenty of other places on the internet to be.

For what it's worth, I don't see any name dropping, and I don't think the OP expects to get any business at his studio because of this thread, if that's what you mean by spam.

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Old 10-18-2014, 08:48 AM   #13
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your rules only say, that all has to be ok. fine, thats what I knew before. sooooo ... ???
There are people here, reading stuff like this, getting informed by it, and by the disagreements people have. That is useful, if not to you.
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Old 10-18-2014, 11:06 AM   #14
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And there's no reason NOT to use gentle compression during tracking to slightly reduce peaks.
Other than different compression settings may be better than the ones you chose. Maybe a different compressor would have been a better choice. How do you know you've set the threshold and attack time to achieve what you're after? Once you've compressed it during tracking, you can't undo it, and you're stuck with the results. If you wait until mixing, you have all the flexibility to try all kinds of alternatives. And unless you're using a fast compressor(quick attack), you may not be taming those peaks as much as you think. It's way easier to get it right after tracking.

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If you use compression sparingly (like maybe 3:1 ratio and 3 db maximum gain reduction), there's no risk of over-compressing - it only helps keep things more level.
That's 3db you've lost for good. Is that important? Probably not, but why lose it at Step 1 of the process when it's just as easy to lose it at Step 2 when you can listen to the actual effect before committing to it? Plus, in our digital world where we get to see the waveform in great detail, we now have visual confirmation that we're achieving the desired result.

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What does this mean - "recording hot"?
Recording with your gains set high. It reduces your headroom and is riskier with respect to potential clipping. It's a hold-over from analog recording. It was still sort of important in the days of 16-bit digital recording. A lot of people seem to have trouble letting go of this. With 24-bit recording it's completely unnecessary unless your analog source is benefiting in some way from it.
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Old 10-18-2014, 11:12 AM   #15
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Once you've compressed it during tracking, you can't undo it, and you're stuck with the results. If you wait until mixing, you have all the flexibility to try all kinds of alternatives. And unless you're using a fast compressor(quick attack), you may not be taming those peaks as much as you think. It's way easier to get it right after tracking.


That's 3db you've lost for good. Is that important?
It would be if we were using 4-tracks. We live in an age of unlimited tracks, so do the same thing you might do with guitar, record a mult with nothing on it in case you change your mind later.
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Old 10-18-2014, 11:13 AM   #16
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There are people here, reading stuff like this, getting informed by it, and by the disagreements people have.
And often misinformed. More and more often, it seems, as people read incorrect statements presented as facts and then perpetuate it further down the road.
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Old 10-18-2014, 01:48 PM   #17
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There is also value to not having every possible decision always available. It's like that guy who wants to stay with his girl for the rest of his life, provided something better doesn't come along up and until the last 2 seconds of his life. Know what you want up front once in awhile for Christ's sake; it's as if we are recording with no earthly idea or vision of what it is supposed to be.
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Old 10-18-2014, 09:19 PM   #18
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And often misinformed. More and more often, it seems, as people read incorrect statements presented as facts and then perpetuate it further down the road.
So, the people you disagree with are ... misinformed?

When there is disagreement, isn't it helpful to hear several viewpoints, and have people state why and when they think a certain solution is good? I think so.

If ONE person thinks that points made in a thread are obvious, should that be enough to stop discussion and comparison of views by all the OTHER people? I don't think so.

Discussion between people with varied experience is not only helpful, it is the POINT of a forum.
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Old 10-19-2014, 07:53 AM   #19
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Other than different compression settings may be better than the ones you chose. Maybe a different compressor would have been a better choice. How do you know you've set the threshold and attack time to achieve what you're after? Once you've compressed it during tracking, you can't undo it, and you're stuck with the results. If you wait until mixing, you have all the flexibility to try all kinds of alternatives. And unless you're using a fast compressor(quick attack), you may not be taming those peaks as much as you think. It's way easier to get it right after tracking.
It's easy enough to get it right, on the fly using a real analog compressor, which is an arguably better sound than using a plug-in after the fact, plus you avoid an additional conversion stage that would be necessary if you were to use an analog compressor on the signal after the fact.

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That's 3db you've lost for good. Is that important? Probably not, but why lose it at Step 1 of the process when it's just as easy to lose it at Step 2 when you can listen to the actual effect before committing to it? Plus, in our digital world where we get to see the waveform in great detail, we now have visual confirmation that we're achieving the desired result.
That's a 3db spike in the waveform that has been smoothed out without any audible artifacts, and I never had to waste a second of my life worrying about it. The way I see it, what's wrong with making a decision and committing to it when you know the result will be okay?

I don't know if this post was in response to our discussion, but I believe it applies:
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There is also value to not having every possible decision always available. It's like that guy who wants to stay with his girl for the rest of his life, provided something better doesn't come along up and until the last 2 seconds of his life. Know what you want up front once in awhile for Christ's sake; it's as if we are recording with no earthly idea or vision of what it is supposed to be.
Personally, I have enough problems making decisions and committing to them as it is, but this is an easy one. My tracks sound more professional and sound more like a final mix from the moment I play them back, simply because I'm not scared to use a compressor to subtly tame peaks while tracking.
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Old 10-19-2014, 08:37 AM   #20
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Personally, I have enough problems making decisions and committing to them as it is
I'm sure everyone does to an extent. One of the reasons I feel that considering it has value is because for every "thing" where there are multiple options (never committed/burned in), they will affect every other thing that has options which results in this endless or at minimum, exponential circle of tweaking especially for the person who isn't 100% sure of what they want. I know it exists, it's everywhere since the advent of non-linear, random access editing and infinite plugins/tracks.

When something is committed, even when not the perfect choice, it now becomes a cornerstone to which all future decisions strengthen and build upon, it not only commits that particular decision but can help all the others beyond that point because they are all interrelated.

It's just food for thought in a sea of endless options these days. You don't want to commit a stupid mistake but committing some of the rest, IMHO makes for a better end result as well as closure to actually finishing. Though it is somewhat philosophical, I think the consideration and benefits are very real.
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Old 10-19-2014, 08:41 AM   #21
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When something is committed, even when not the perfect choice, it now becomes a cornerstone to which all future decisions strengthen and build upon, it not only commits that particular decision but can help all the others beyond that point because they are all interrelated.
Great point. No perfect choices, only lots of judgments that interactively move on down the road to creating a piece of music with character.

Fear of not doing what someone insists is the correct thing should not deter those in a studio from making creative judgments.

So could a great vocal performance be made without the "correct" mic? Could a great vocal performance be made with AND without reverb or compression? Sure. But it depends on all the other related choices karbo refers to. Our decisions, like fx, come in chains.
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Old 10-19-2014, 09:24 AM   #22
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...in a sea of endless options these days.
Amen.
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Old 10-19-2014, 11:06 AM   #23
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So, the people you disagree with are ... misinformed?
I don't see how you're reading that into my post. First, my statement was a general one about forums in general. There is a lot of misinformation along with all the good info in every forum I visit. There is only one comment in this whole post that I would consider incorrect. Hold that thought.

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When there is disagreement, isn't it helpful to hear several viewpoints, and have people state why and when they think a certain solution is good? I think so.

If ONE person thinks that points made in a thread are obvious, should that be enough to stop discussion and comparison of views by all the OTHER people? I don't think so.

Discussion between people with varied experience is not only helpful, it is the POINT of a forum.
This is exactly why I've contributed to this post. The OP was sharing his opinions. On the point of tracking with a compressor, I responded that it's not necessary. I didn't say it's wrong, just not necessary. BTW, the OP agreed.

Then came the following.

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And there's no reason NOT to use gentle compression during tracking.
Had this been stated, "There are reasons to use gentle compression" rather than "And there's no reason ..." I probably wouldn't have responded. But as stated, it's incorrect, and I provided some reasons. I didn't say these reasons are universally applicable or that use of gentle compression is wrong, just here are some reasons for not doing it.

When I'm doing studio recording, there is a situation in which I'll use a hardware compressor but usually not. When I'm recording my band live, I don't use compression in the recording chain. Not because it right or wrong but because it suits my purposes.

Hopefully my comments about not using compression during tracking will make some people think more about what they're doing and make appropriate decisions for their situation.
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Old 10-19-2014, 12:37 PM   #24
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Had this been stated, "There are reasons to use gentle compression" rather than "And there's no reason ..." I probably wouldn't have responded. But as stated, it's incorrect, and I provided some reasons. I didn't say these reasons are universally applicable or that use of gentle compression is wrong, just here are some reasons for not doing it.
I think that's fair, and you have a valid point. But this was in resopnse to:
Quote:
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...there's no reason to diminish your dynamic range while tracking.
Had this been stated, "there are reasons not to diminish your dynamic range..." rather than "there's no reason..." I probably wouldn't have responded. But as stated, it's incorrect, and I provided some reasons. I didn't say these reasons are universally applicable or that not using compression is wrong, just here are some reasons for doing it.

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Hopefully my comments about not using compression during tracking will make some people think more about what they're doing and make appropriate decisions for their situation.
And hopefully my comments about making decisions and committing to them will also make people think. Any time a guitarist dials in a tone on his amp in the studio and it gets recorded, a decision has been made which will impact the end result of the recording. Is it really necessary to record the dry track also, so you can later reamp it a million different ways? I don't think so. And I think the same applies to recording a vocal. For me, the idea is to get the track as close to the desired end result as possible without too much risk of overdoing it with gain, EQ, or compression. It's good to play it safe. But also, it's good to know your gear well so that you can trust yourself enough to use a hardware compressor without worrying about whether you're doing something you'll regret later.

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Old 10-19-2014, 01:31 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
When something is committed, even when not the perfect choice, it now becomes a cornerstone to which all future decisions strengthen and build upon, it not only commits that particular decision but can help all the others beyond that point because they are all interrelated.

It's just food for thought in a sea of endless options these days. You don't want to commit a stupid mistake but committing some of the rest, IMHO makes for a better end result as well as closure to actually finishing. Though it is somewhat philosophical, I think the consideration and benefits are very real.
Yeah. What he said.
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Old 10-20-2014, 06:43 AM   #26
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I don't see how you're reading that into my post.
Cool. Sorry. Thanks for making it clear.
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