Old 03-03-2014, 09:55 AM   #201
vitalker
Human being with feelings
 
vitalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mekemesh View Post
There are actually more apps that hosts vst3 plugins:

Cakewalk Sonar, Traction, Samplerobot, Metaplugin.
Sorry, but what you want from vst3, if it will be in reaper? Yes, some plugins have onle vst3 version, but the rest vsts have also vst2 version which has the same functions, except sidechain, "VST3 plug-ins can apply their processing economically and only when it is needed", "VST3 plug-ins are no longer limited to a fixed number of inputs and outputs" and some others.
vitalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 11:46 AM   #202
gofer
-blänk-
 
gofer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker View Post
Sorry, but what you want from vst3, if it will be in reaper?
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker View Post
Yes, some plugins have onle vst3 version, but the rest vsts have also vst2 version which has the same functions, except sidechain, "VST3 plug-ins can apply their processing economically and only when it is needed", "VST3 plug-ins are no longer limited to a fixed number of inputs and outputs" and some others.
(emphasis gofer)

I figure you answered your own question there
gofer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 12:27 PM   #203
vitalker
Human being with feelings
 
vitalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
(emphasis gofer)

I figure you answered your own question there
Yes, but I think that these functions(in the other kind) already exist in Reaper. Devs would add vst3 into Reaper, if it was so simply.
vitalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 01:28 PM   #204
mekemesh
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 15
Default

The vst3 features are many, Steinberg have listed them here:
http://www.steinberg.net/en/company/...gies/vst3.html

I think it will be difficult with workarounds to achive the same result with a vst2 standard. E.g improved performance from the cpu using many plugins on a workstation.

And in marketing a product, vst3 support is not a bad feature for the audience is it? I am sure people will love reaper even more
mekemesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 01:29 PM   #205
mekemesh
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 15
Default vst3

The vst3 features are many, Steinberg have listed them here:
http://www.steinberg.net/en/company/...gies/vst3.html

I think it will be difficult with workarounds to achive the same result with a vst2 standard. E.g improved performance from the cpu using many plugins on a workstation.

And in marketing a product, vst3 support is not a bad feature for the audience is it? I am sure people will love reaper even more
mekemesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 01:36 PM   #206
vitalker
Human being with feelings
 
vitalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mekemesh View Post
The vst3 features are many, Steinberg have listed them here:
http://www.steinberg.net/en/company/...gies/vst3.html
Thank you, but I have taken features from this site. Yeah, it will be cool to have vst3 support!
vitalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2014, 08:02 AM   #207
mekemesh
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker View Post
Thank you, but I have taken features from this site. Yeah, it will be cool to have vst3 support!
We found the same source Thanks for your opinions about the technology.

M
mekemesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 01:32 AM   #208
dimapet
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Magnitogorsk, Russia
Posts: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker View Post
Thank you, but I have taken features from this site. Yeah, it will be cool to have vst3 support!
+ 100500
dimapet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 02:11 AM   #209
Mink99
Human being with feelings
 
Mink99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,008
Default

From a user's perspective I did not see any feature in vst3 that would not have been easily be implemented in a compatible vst2.x API .

To create a new incompatible API was imho a marketing trick from steinberg to gain an advantage over the competition and to have some nasty conceptual flaws in cubase being shifted to the plugin developers to be solved there. This approach was somewhat similar to the tricks Microsoft played when win3.1 was intentionally incompatible to Dr-dos.

It will be time to create a reliable vst2 -> vst3 bridge, so that vst3 plugins can run in a vst2 environment.
Mink99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 07:47 AM   #210
Lawrence
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
Default

Steinberg is kinda like Apple and Google and AVID in that kinda odd way, that lots of people just really don't like the company and whatever they do gets pounded on to a certain degree.

They just announced a "Zero Downtime" thing for people who break their dongles and predictably the first reactions were looking for anything negative to say about it.

The rule of the net for companies.. the bigger or more successful you are in general the more some people will dislike you.

It really couldn't simply be the case that Steiny actually thought VST3 was an improvement, right or wrong, and sometimes companies are just wrong, there has to be some sinister motive behind it.
Lawrence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 07:57 AM   #211
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
Default

Quote:
break their dongles
Happened to me once, went to the emergency room. Hurt like hell.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 08:23 AM   #212
Nip
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,541
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink99 View Post
It will be time to create a reliable vst2 -> vst3 bridge, so that vst3 plugins can run in a vst2 environment.
DDMF Metaplugin does that and many other useful things.

If there are any specific VST3 stuff in a plugin it might not be useable, don't know - but you can load VST2 and VST3.
__________________
-- Windows 11 Pro, i7-12700F 2.1GHz 32G, RME Digiface USB Audient ASP800 Lexicon MX200, Reaper 4.78 --
Nip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 08:53 AM   #213
Lawrence
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
Default

Everyone that matters (the major or wanna be major players who actually support the VST format) on Windows will probably support VST3 at some point. It's just taking way, way longer than Steiny anticipated.

It hasn't failed, it's just not been fully adopted... yet.

If there is VST 3 you can safely bet there will also be a VST 4 at some point and the debates over what's possible in VST 2 will eventually just die off.

Last edited by Lawrence; 10-28-2014 at 09:07 AM.
Lawrence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 09:06 AM   #214
SamuelC
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 232
Default

As a Presonus Studio one 2.6 User I like that Presonus GOT OFF THEIR ASS!!! and Added VST3 support, in fact made it a part of Studio One.

for me the biggest feature for VST3 ( May not be for you) comes down to sidechaining without dicking around with channels and crap and setting up crap here and there

In Studio One it's brain dead simple, add a VST3 plugin to a track 1. On the 2nd track go to the FX window = the Sidechain from the 1st track is there for you to pick, no need to mess around with setting up channels!!


This is the biggest benefit DIRECT ACCESS TO THE SIDECHAIN plugins


Reaper is built different so adding VST3 is a NO GO PERIOD end of story!!

VST3 is doing what Reaper already does, however in Reaper it's more manual, you have to setup everything prehand.

I do not want to mess around with channels here and there and setting up everything prehand, in Studio One this is all done intuitively. But not that I can't do it in Reaper, jsut easier in Studio One


I use both Reaper and Studio One together, however with many things that Studio One has and is blatently missing in Reaper Studio One is still the Main Daw for projects. Reaper is running the FX as a server.

VST3 is useless in Reaper since the Reaper channels are exposed to the user already.
SamuelC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 09:08 AM   #215
Lawrence
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelC View Post
As a Presonus Studio one 2.6 User I like that Presonus GOT OFF THEIR ASS!!! and Added VST3 support, in fact made it a part of Studio One.
Well, that's a little unfair to Reaper.

They (the S1 devs) were making a brand new product so it probably made sense to support the latest VST version while doing that, probably not even knowing how fast it might or might not be adopted way back then, probably 7-8+ years ago when they were initially planning for it. "Changing" something is maybe not the same as creating something from scratch.

Your comment may more accurately apply to Cakewalk, who had to write VST 3 support into an existing product.

Now why Bitwig, another brand new product, didn't make their product a VST 3 host from the start, no idea. If support for it explodes 4 years from now and all the great samplers start supporting note expression or whatever else, they may come to regret that decision.

But Cakewalk and Adobe and Imageline I think and some others added support to their existing products.

But yeah, if you're creating something brand new ... "might as well?". If you're changing something you probably need a good reason to change... especially if it's a lot of work.

Last edited by Lawrence; 10-28-2014 at 09:20 AM.
Lawrence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 09:20 AM   #216
SamuelC
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 232
Default

LOL you know most of the guys's came from Steinberg and headed over to Presonus and I believe adding VST3 was a middle finger to Steinberg since VST3 works better in Studio One than in Cubase in many cases.

Take note on that other part I posted, since Reaper has the channels exposed, adding VST3 makes no sense.
SamuelC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2014, 09:25 AM   #217
Lawrence
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelC View Post
LOL you know most of the guys's came from Steinberg and headed over to Presonus and I believe adding VST3 was a middle finger to Steinberg since VST3 works better in Studio One than in Cubase in many cases.
Dunno, it was maybe just the case that they already fully understood it and didn't consider it hard to implement... being ex-Steinberg guys... but of course we're both guessing.

Quote:
Take note on that other part I posted, since Reaper has the channels exposed, adding VST3 makes no sense.
We will disagree there. Plugin formats are really daw agnostic, some of the functionality they bring. Just because a daw can do something similar, like FL and Bitwig can do some of that stuff with their own instruments, doesn't mean the format has no value.

You still can't do that with Kontakt or Halion so... the plugin format, if it was more widely supported by plugin vendors, would still have value for some.

What will really re-ignite the push is when or if NI ever decides to fully implement VST3 in their instruments. I don't know if they will or not but they do have one of the ex Steiny / S1 developers there now as an employee. If NI and their instrument creators start adopting it and taking advantage of all of the note expression stuff and all that, it will make more people start asking for their hosts to support it.

As it stands now, assuming the instrument quality is as high, VST3 is a good reason to maybe use Halion over Kontakt or whatever, for Cubase users, so there is that, especially it it loads Kontakt format files well. If S1 implements VST 3.5 or whatever in the next version, things like Halion will be more attractive to S1 users because they'll be able to do things with it that no other users except Cubase users can do with it.

People can argue about that all they want but the reality is the only reason we don't care so much now is because the major samplers and synths don't fully support it yet. If and when they ever do, that will change because VST 2 (afaik anyway) simply doesn't allow doing some of that stuff.

If none of the other major synth and sampler companies adodpt it, eventually Steiny will have the only pro level sampler capable of doing a lot of that stuff in any host that supports VST3 or 4 or whatever and Kontakt and the others will still be VST 2.

If anyone thinks Steiny is just gonna stop here, they're nuts. They're going to push that advantage as much as they can, where they can. They're in direct competition with Kontakt, with Halion.

Last edited by Lawrence; 10-28-2014 at 10:09 AM.
Lawrence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 06:37 AM   #218
Konda
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2
Default No

I have some of my plugins installed only as vst3 to avoid duplicates and etc, the sidechain function on other daws is important to me. So whetever or not its useful to someone or useful at all on reaper, for me it is because id have to go around installing stuff again just for reaper.

Dont take some attitude and go around talking "steinberg this and steinberg that" "You can do it in reaper we dont need it"

What sets reaper apart is imo lack off doing things on some way that is carved onto stones. Other daws have fetish over doing stuff certain way but then you always end up lacking something.

Good example: Ableton was lacking automation curve tool , people on forums would come at you agressively about how great it is to draw the the automation by hand. Its like how Steve Jobs made osx so great. Yea the lack off automation curve tool was really great and looked and sounded like it when you went around drawing it freehand. I was suprised they added it later because the community was so single minded about this holy way of working.
Konda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 07:52 AM   #219
bluzkat
Human being with feelings
 
bluzkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 6,919
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konda View Post
...for me it is because id have to go around installing stuff again just for reaper.
No you wouldn't, Reaper would read what is already installed. You just have to enter the path to your VST folders in Reaper's preferences.

I don't recall ever have to reinstall my plugins when switching between DAWs. You just need to tell them where everything is.


__________________
Peace...
bluzkat
bluzkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 08:11 AM   #220
Jae.Thomas
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuelC View Post

Reaper is built different so adding VST3 is a NO GO PERIOD end of story!!
... more FUD by SamC. It's really terrible to see, man. I'm sure you're a fine, bright human being, but do you have to spread disinformation constantly?
Jae.Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 08:13 AM   #221
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
... more FUD by SamC.
Sock == puppet.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 08:19 AM   #222
Lawrence
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Sock == puppet.
Seems to be.
Lawrence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 08:39 AM   #223
richie43
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,090
Default

As I often say here when "SamuelC" goes on another rant.....


"Hi Dan"

(Does anyone remember good ol' Dan.....?)
__________________
The Sounds of the Hear and Now.
richie43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 09:00 AM   #224
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
Default

Did anyone even notice that this thread was necro'd?
EvilDragon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 09:05 AM   #225
Lawrence
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Did anyone even notice that this thread was necro'd?
Yeah it kinda was.

Anyway, he's also an S1 Fan I guess (as am I and some others here) but you have to view these things in proper context or they always go down the proverbial rabbit hole. My current expectations for Reaper are actually higher than my current expectations for Studio One in some ways because Reaper is a version 5 product... and it should be "well ahead" in some obvious ways, feature wise, and it is.

But you know the net, it'll compare v1 Bitwig Studio to v900 Logic Pro as if it's a valid comparison.
Lawrence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 09:07 AM   #226
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Did anyone even notice that this thread was necro'd?
Yes..
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2015, 01:53 PM   #227
The Telenator
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Oud West, NL
Posts: 2,335
Default

I've got enough complexity on my plate and far more than adequate sound, so I'm kind of glad Reaper didn't go VST3 (yeah, I know, I could just ignore if it did, but I might get conned into going into VST3 plugins).


So ... as the VST3 issue rides slowly off into the sunset ... Goodnight ...
The Telenator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2015, 09:39 PM   #228
richie43
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,090
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Telenator View Post
So ... as the VST3 issue rides slowly off into the sunset ... Goodnight ...
You need to read up on the pre-release threads......
__________________
The Sounds of the Hear and Now.
richie43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 01:15 PM   #229
Alienoiz
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 56
Default

"finally"....will it be a version of Reaper supporting VST3 or not!
Alienoiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2015, 01:21 PM   #230
bluzkat
Human being with feelings
 
bluzkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 6,919
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alienoiz View Post
"finally"....will it be a version of Reaper supporting VST3 or not!
Read the post above yours for a clue.


__________________
Peace...
bluzkat
bluzkat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2015, 06:17 AM   #231
BorsingPhoto
Human being with feelings
 
BorsingPhoto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Fayetteville, TN
Posts: 164
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluzkat View Post
And one of them is Cubase...


That's "Kobajs" in Swedish Lol.. I was "forced" to purchase/"switch" to ProTools 11 for my HP 410-Y (AMD X6, 16GB RAM) because it couldn't handle my, still preferred MIDI / Virtual Instruments work flow in REAPER (hopefully my HP Z640 WILL).. Still, What I don't get in all this is why no one seem interested in a MIDI version that handles banking / more than 16 MIDI channels? Or a Digital board like the now "old" Yamaha 01V96i which can handle 5.1 surround mixing send/route any of it's many FX to/from anything AND simultaneously send/receive 16 96 KHz audio channels over USB 2.0, as well as use all of it's 17 faders (etc) as a surface controller? X32 etc.. Pffh..

No fate is worse than having so much money, you stopped caring about NOT paying $5K for a "BLOWTOOLS" which supports 5.1 (PFFT!) surround sound (!?!) OR an overpriced "CRAPINTOSH Computer", both made by non backwards compatible (and BIG hairy nosed, nearly computer illiterate) but, o YES "Industry standard" companies.. I own "LOVE" and use PT 11, which I'd still pee allover if it weren't for the fact that they actually GOT (Yeeeah) those dual audio engines and AAX working for "any" 64bit(!!) Windows configuration.. but get any(!) over prized / hyped Crapple product? (BUUUURP) I rather die with EBOLA..

I think I'll take my puppy for a walk, knowing that at least HE loves me / keeps up with MY standards..
__________________
BorsingStudios.com represents aspiring new talents on a budget by offering studio time/on-line marketing support in the true "spirit of Cockos".

Last edited by BorsingPhoto; 04-15-2015 at 07:13 AM.
BorsingPhoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.