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Old 04-18-2016, 04:28 PM   #1
Steen
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Default Did I really lose my multitrack files

Having worked for about two weeks, editing and mixing, on a live recorded 32 channel project, it looks like all my tracks disappeared overnight.
Normally "open project" showed 32 tracks . But now a window that says "replace missing files".
When I try to open my projects via "inserts", my 32 tracks after selecting the separated tracks, do appear but are empty. The tracks show the words off line.
Stereo tracks however do not seem to have any damage, only multitrack recordings !!!
Because the project was delivered to me on a usb-stick, I could open it on another computer (also with Reaper of course). But in a couple of hours after loading and editing these tracks also suddenly showed "off line" and were not playable of course.
So my question is quite simple: what is happening, what happened? And most important: can I get my projects back?
"Recent projects" can open older files !!

Last edited by Steen; 04-18-2016 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 04-18-2016, 04:40 PM   #2
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Have you done any cleanup or consolidation work recently?
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Old 04-18-2016, 04:41 PM   #3
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Done any diagnosis on the hard drives?
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Old 04-19-2016, 02:00 AM   #4
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Thanks for your reply.

I don't remember I did some cleaning or whatever. Not on the computer, not on the second computer(laptop).
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Old 04-19-2016, 03:37 AM   #5
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You didn't copy the source files to a hard drive? Sounds like your OS just cut the power to the USB after x minutes of inactivity, some Windows versions for example do that unless you disable that power-saving feature.

If the source files are still on the USB stick, just copy them to a better place and relink the reaper project to those files.
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Old 04-19-2016, 04:39 AM   #6
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Steen, REAPER projects are saved as an "RPP" proect file, which is a text info list file of all the editing, mixing and processing you performed on your audio files, including the path (where on a drive) to where the project saw those files.

The project file does not contain the audio (it references it), nor does it alter the audio (non-destructive).

If you move the audio, or leave it on removeable media like a USB stick or drive, then unless that drive is in place with the same drive ID (drive letter), it will not be able to read it and show the peaks in your arrange view, etc.

The best thing to do is either work completely on your USB drive, or (better still) copy it all to an internal drive and work from there.

Best practice is to put the project in its own folder with the audio in a subfolder called (eg) "audio files" -you can set this up in project files to expect and record audio to this subfolder. knowing where your project and your audio is kept is imperative to prevent events like yours, and to allow easy moving, copying, backing-up and archiving of your projects.

Get into good practice like this early and it'll mean less stress and wasted time as you go on.

Shout back if you need any help setting stuff like this up, but also have a good read of the intro section of the manual: "Up & Running..."



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Old 10-27-2016, 04:16 AM   #7
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Hi Planetnine

Kinda late maybe. I expected to get an email message when someone replied to my thread. Apparently this not the method in Reapar Forum. Any way, thank you very much for your clear explanation. Allthough I still have some problems with copying, making back ups and lost files, you're contribution helped me a lot.

gryz Steen
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Old 10-27-2016, 03:02 PM   #8
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Hi Planetnine

Kinda late maybe. I expected to get an email message when someone replied to my thread. Apparently this not the method in Reapar Forum.
There is an option in the User CP for email notification (located in the Edit Options section).



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Old 11-05-2016, 08:36 AM   #9
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@ Bluzcat

Thank You. That's what I needed

Grtz Steen
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Old 11-06-2016, 01:53 AM   #10
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I think there is an random error here in Reaper because I have some projects with that strange reaction too - OFF LINE all over the audio tracks !

When I open these projects the tracks shows the audio curves for some seconds - maybe 1 or 2 seconds - and then suddenly these tracks are stamped with the text "OFF LINE".

If I close and open the project again - maybe I have to do it 2-3 times - then the audio tracks will be stable and stay there.

My kind of "error" is a little mystifying - sometimes it's there often sometimes it's not - I can't find any pattern in this shit.

I'm using the attached version.
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:54 PM   #11
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Default Well, here we go again

Again. The same problem as I mentioned above a year ago. Last year there was a solution, and now this solution doesn't work.
Action/ show action list/ rebuilt peaks.. But no peaks. Overnight several peaks of one file disappeared, not all, but some. Reaper can't find them, it says. Close the programm, reopen it and a couple of more tracks/ peaks are gone. It shows : off line.
Opening the file gives me a message that some tracks are missing and it offers me to go and find the tracks, but without result.
I almost finished this recording of 10 tracks of someone else to release a cd in a couple of months. Some hard to get good musicians played on it. Shit happens but this smells bad.
On my knees, who has the solution? Why does it happen overnight?
Another strange thing: in the folder the files are suddenly listed as separated tracks instead of one "name.RRP".
I always save a song after a modification on two places. On my computer and on a backup stick. No problem til now.

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Old 02-09-2017, 10:39 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Steen View Post
Again. The same problem as I mentioned above a year ago. Last year there was a solution, and now this solution doesn't work.
Action/ show action list/ rebuilt peaks.. But no peaks. Overnight several peaks of one file disappeared, not all, but some. Reaper can't find them, it says. Close the programm, reopen it and a couple of more tracks/ peaks are gone. It shows : off line.
Opening the file gives me a message that some tracks are missing and it offers me to go and find the tracks, but without result.
I almost finished this recording of 10 tracks of someone else to release a cd in a couple of months. Some hard to get good musicians played on it. Shit happens but this smells bad.
On my knees, who has the solution? Why does it happen overnight?
Another strange thing: in the folder the files are suddenly listed as separated tracks instead of one "name.RRP".
I always save a song after a modification on two places. On my computer and on a backup stick. No problem til now.

grtz
Yeah, you're right ... it's so annoying and I too have some projects where it still reacts that way.

Back in time I "opened" a project by 2-clicking on the Reaper-file in Windows and the it happened - the tracks looked nice for a second or two then they all went OFF-LINE.

Now I STAY IN Reaper and opens the Reaper-file from "inside" of Reaper - this cures my problem !

Hope it helps you too !
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Old 02-09-2017, 11:21 PM   #13
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Calm down for just a minute.

Close Reaper and use your OS to find the files.

Open Reaper and tell it where to look for them.
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Old 02-10-2017, 06:23 AM   #14
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Is working off really a good idea ? I have seen dozens of problems in my everyday use of USB drives from improper unmounting. The next time it's inserted windows wants to Fix the drive.

Maybe you guys have different experiences but for me, I never ever work off of USB. I always move the files to my computer, work on them, copy them back and unmount the USB (eject).

Regarding this user's problem. Is it possible his files were saved in the temp space on the hard drive where reaper writes if you don't have a project created ?
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Old 02-10-2017, 06:36 AM   #15
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Is working off really a good idea ? I have seen dozens of problems in my everyday use of USB drives from improper unmounting. The next time it's inserted windows wants to Fix the drive.

Maybe you guys have different experiences but for me, I never ever work off of USB. I always move the files to my computer, work on them, copy them back and unmount the USB (eject).

Regarding this user's problem. Is it possible his files were saved in the temp space on the hard drive where reaper writes if you don't have a project created ?
No, in my case it's not what is going on !

Sometimes when the sun is shining and the bus is driving by my window - it works - but most often it DON'T - but opening from INSIDE Reaper works for me !
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Old 02-10-2017, 06:42 AM   #16
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I always save a song after a modification on two places. On my computer and on a backup stick. No problem til now.
You should save to your computer then make a copy of that to the USB stick, not Save As to both locations from within Reaper or you raise the risk of something like files appearing off line.
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Old 02-10-2017, 07:12 AM   #17
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You should save to your computer then make a copy of that to the USB stick, not Save As to both locations from within Reaper or you raise the risk of something like files appearing off line.
I can see your point there - but I do it this way.
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Old 02-10-2017, 07:42 AM   #18
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I can see your point there - but I do it this way.
You do it how I suggest or by Save As twice? If you are already following what I suggested then never mind the following...

Do whatever works for you if you don't mind paying the penalty but the way you are doing it now (if I read it correctly) is asking for the problem you are seeing. That will likely bite you terribly eventually.
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Old 02-10-2017, 07:47 AM   #19
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I can see your point there - but I do it this way.
Yeah, definitely don't "Save As" to two places. Pick one and then manually copy/backup to the other please.
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Old 02-10-2017, 08:21 AM   #20
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You do it how I suggest or by Save As twice? If you are already following what I suggested then never mind the following...

Do whatever works for you if you don't mind paying the penalty but the way you are doing it now (if I read it correctly) is asking for the problem you are seeing. That will likely bite you terribly eventually.
OK, it could be misunderstood - I do like you said in the first place.
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Old 02-10-2017, 08:23 AM   #21
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OK, it could be misunderstood - I do like you said in the first place.
Great, I misunderstood, you are doing it right, thanks for confirming.
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Old 02-10-2017, 09:58 AM   #22
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Great, I misunderstood, ...
Me too...
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Old 02-10-2017, 02:49 PM   #23
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Great, I misunderstood, you are doing it right, thanks for confirming.
Yeah, and that's what makes it even MORE annoying to have these "OFF-LINE" tracks !

I sure there is some error burried deep down in the code ... when the wind blows from a specific corner ... ;-)) it's a fact the the "OFF-LINIE" is these!

It's NOT an alternative fact ;-))
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Old 02-10-2017, 03:58 PM   #24
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It's NOT an alternative fact ;-))
hehe, well that should be easy because the warning should tell you where it thinks the file is, then you can look there. You may have covered that already but generally you'll never see that warning for a file reaper can actually find so my interest is where does reaper think it is. If it doesn't display a warning during load but shows offline internally that is also interesting because it should have noticed when it loaded and if that's the case it makes me think the file is there but inaccessible.

Secondly, the part about clicking the RPP vs inside reaper is both interesting and rings a bell for me. If it comes to me, I'll ping back.
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Old 02-10-2017, 05:01 PM   #25
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Sometimes under certain circumstances, files are offline, but there is no warning about it. Its not a Reaper issue but a Windows issue up to Win 10.

That issue occurs, if you start a project into a running Reaper or you start Reaper via a double click on a .rpp-file AND the absolute path to the audio-files including the 8+3 name of the audio-files exceeds 256 letters. In that case Reaper thinks, the file is there, but Windows cant pass it to Reaper. That happens in FAT32 filesystems AND in NTFS.

Its considered a bug in Windows.

Solution: Start Reaper and open the project from within Reaper. That way the Windows explorer is bypassed.

There is a thread about this behaviour anywhere here from around a year ago I think.
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Old 02-11-2017, 02:34 AM   #26
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Sometimes under certain circumstances, files are offline, but there is no warning about it. Its not a Reaper issue but a Windows issue up to Win 10.

That issue occurs, if you start a project into a running Reaper or you start Reaper via a double click on a .rpp-file AND the absolute path to the audio-files including the 8+3 name of the audio-files exceeds 256 letters. In that case Reaper thinks, the file is there, but Windows cant pass it to Reaper. That happens in FAT32 filesystems AND in NTFS.

Its considered a bug in Windows.

Solution: Start Reaper and open the project from within Reaper. That way the Windows explorer is bypassed.

There is a thread about this behaviour anywhere here from around a year ago I think.
I've had that same thinking - that's it a Windows problem - and my Windows is XP which makes it even worse ;-) (My HW has no drivers for Windows 10 - that's why I have to stick to XP !) - but your idea of too long path's to the files is NOT the case here.

I see no explanation for the Reaper the SHOW the files at the first 1-2 seconds and THEN tell they're OFF-LINE when the wind is blowing from a specific corner ect., ect. - and opening that same file from within Reaper gives no problems at all - that's a mystery I think !

OK, it COULD maybe a sort of "delay" in Windows locating the files - a delay too long for Reaper and THEN it shows "OFF-LINE" - I don't know.
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Old 02-11-2017, 02:51 AM   #27
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I've had that same thinking - that's it a Windows problem - and my Windows is XP which makes it even worse ;-) (My HW has no drivers for Windows 10 - that's why I have to stick to XP !) - but your idea of too long path's to the files is NOT the case here.

I see no explanation for the Reaper the SHOW the files at the first 1-2 seconds and THEN tell they're OFF-LINE when the wind is blowing from a specific corner ect., ect. - and opening that same file from within Reaper gives no problems at all - that's a mystery I think !

OK, it COULD maybe a sort of "delay" in Windows locating the files - a delay too long for Reaper and THEN it shows "OFF-LINE" - I don't know.
OK, was an idea with the too long paths, because I had exactly that problem.

Are you sure, your HW doesnt work with Win 10? I have some very old HW (Terratec) in use, and of the driver is said, they wouldnt work in Win 10. Wrong! They work flawlessly. Win 10 is a very, very forgiving OS I have experienced.
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Old 02-11-2017, 03:29 AM   #28
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OK, was an idea with the too long paths, because I had exactly that problem.

Are you sure, your HW doesnt work with Win 10? I have some very old HW (Terratec) in use, and of the driver is said, they wouldnt work in Win 10. Wrong! They work flawlessly. Win 10 is a very, very forgiving OS I have experienced.
WHAT ??????

Mine too is Terratech ... an 8 I/O rack 24bit PHASE 88 - and I've searched all over - no driver found !

OK, I think I have to admit I was trying back when I had the Windows 7 - and it didn't work at all - and then I had the XP machine running !

When I updated to Windows 10 on my other machines - I didn't even think of trying to set up the Phase 88 on the Windows 10 !

Are you fooling me ??? ... should I try that "rabbit hole" ????
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Old 02-11-2017, 03:27 PM   #29
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Ok, guys. Hold your horses. I am grateful for all the reactions on my problem. In a day I'll read and study them. For the time being I 'm afraid someone is missing a point. Tomorrow I'll be back

Thanx for the answers.
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Old 02-11-2017, 03:43 PM   #30
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WHAT ??????

Mine too is Terratech ... an 8 I/O rack 24bit PHASE 88 - and I've searched all over - no driver found !

OK, I think I have to admit I was trying back when I had the Windows 7 - and it didn't work at all - and then I had the XP machine running !

When I updated to Windows 10 on my other machines - I didn't even think of trying to set up the Phase 88 on the Windows 10 !

Are you fooling me ??? ... should I try that "rabbit hole" ????
Mine is a Phase 26, 2 in/out, but I think the drivers are the same, just another I/O count.

No, I am not fooling you. Works with my Win 1o Pro like always. I think in reality there is nearly to no difference in drivers regardless of Windows version. In fact I have read on a Windows forum - could have been Microsoft, but I am not sure - that most or near to all driver "incompatibilities" come from a tagging of the drivers, that the manufacturer insert into the software, and that that tagging can easily be changed. Software without this tagging works on everything > XP. Because regarding the ASIO drivers architecture in Windows systems there has been no change since XP, except for a better data rate at some points. But nothing that has anything to do with the functions.

So, this is all info I have, and I am not a system programmer or have any clue in detail.

Whzat you could do is find a friend who has a Win 10 machine and lets you try the Terratec and lets you install the drivers.

BTW:

ftp://ftp.terratec.de/Producer/PHASE...a_XP_5.51b.exe

You could try this link. Its for 64 and 32 bit. The successor company of Terratec has the old servers still up and running.
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Old 02-11-2017, 10:49 PM   #31
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Mine is a Phase 26, 2 in/out, but I think the drivers are the same, just another I/O count.

No, I am not fooling you. Works with my Win 1o Pro like always. I think in reality there is nearly to no difference in drivers regardless of Windows version. In fact I have read on a Windows forum - could have been Microsoft, but I am not sure - that most or near to all driver "incompatibilities" come from a tagging of the drivers, that the manufacturer insert into the software, and that that tagging can easily be changed. Software without this tagging works on everything > XP. Because regarding the ASIO drivers architecture in Windows systems there has been no change since XP, except for a better data rate at some points. But nothing that has anything to do with the functions.

So, this is all info I have, and I am not a system programmer or have any clue in detail.

Whzat you could do is find a friend who has a Win 10 machine and lets you try the Terratec and lets you install the drivers.

BTW:

ftp://ftp.terratec.de/Producer/PHASE...a_XP_5.51b.exe

You could try this link. Its for 64 and 32 bit. The successor company of Terratec has the old servers still up and running.
HA, ha ... server's not found ... even with af 'h' added to TerratecH -still not found ... maybe you ARE fooling me ;-))
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Old 02-12-2017, 01:49 AM   #32
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HA, ha ... server's not found ... even with af 'h' added to TerratecH -still not found ... maybe you ARE fooling me ;-))
No, I dont. Half year or so ago I downloaded my driver from that ftp-server.

I am clueless.

Someone on the internet must have that driver. Maybe archive.org??

https://driverscollection.com/?file_...GidPSNHuaPZyd4

That link is not down. If that link is temporarily go to https://driverscollection.com and search and/or go to the forum and ask for the driver.
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Old 02-12-2017, 03:17 AM   #33
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No, I dont. Half year or so ago I downloaded my driver from that ftp-server.

I am clueless.

Someone on the internet must have that driver. Maybe archive.org??

https://driverscollection.com/?file_...GidPSNHuaPZyd4

That link is not down. If that link is temporarily go to https://driverscollection.com and search and/or go to the forum and ask for the driver.
OK ... I'll try later |-))
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Old 02-12-2017, 05:42 AM   #34
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Yeah, ftp.terratec is down.
Have a look here instead: http://terratec.ultron.info/Producer/PHASE/PHASE88/
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Old 02-12-2017, 06:35 AM   #35
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Yeah, ftp.terratec is down.
Have a look here instead: http://terratec.ultron.info/Producer/PHASE/PHASE88/
It looks VERY interesting except I have the RACK-model.

Thx anyway !
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Old 02-12-2017, 08:11 AM   #36
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Calm down for just a minute.

Close Reaper and use your OS to find the files.

Open Reaper and tell it where to look for them.
I did, but NO disappeard track appears. So, no result.
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Old 02-12-2017, 08:30 AM   #37
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Is working off really a good idea ? I have seen dozens of problems in my everyday use of USB drives from improper unmounting. The next time it's inserted windows wants to Fix the drive.

Maybe you guys have different experiences but for me, I never ever work off of USB. I always move the files to my computer, work on them, copy them back and unmount the USB (eject).

Regarding this user's problem. Is it possible his files were saved in the temp space on the hard drive where reaper writes if you don't have a project created ?
I am surely not telling my way is good, I am just writing dowm what i did.
I open a file from my computer, save it on my computer ("save as" to find the location on the computer instead of the USB), then I save it on my stick (also "save as"), which in in my compouter during all the sessions (can take weeks). I never open a file from that stick.
I learned now, from guys here, I have better copy from the computer to the stick.
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Old 02-12-2017, 09:36 AM   #38
Coachz
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Yes, things will be much more predictable that way.
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Old 02-12-2017, 12:12 PM   #39
Steen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haervo View Post
think.
but there is no warning about it.

What does this look like. Is it a warning? Something telling you something is going t0 happen? What is the display.
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Old 02-12-2017, 12:18 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksor View Post
It looks VERY interesting except I have the RACK-model.
Then you might have some luck with checking the PHASE parent directory (there's also a folder for 'Phase88Rack' and 'Phase88RackFirewire'): http://terratec.ultron.info/Producer/PHASE/

Last edited by solger; 02-12-2017 at 12:37 PM.
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