are there specific mic pres in reaper?

[41TWIN]

or do u kinda make your own up with a few different plugins? or do u just do it all after tracking?

i use an sm57 a lot (on a budget) or for that matter any of the mics i have seem to work better doing vocals if i put compression on while tracking. it might be just cuz it sounds better as im singing....

but i mean, likely when good studios are using and sm57 or other similar mics, its bein run through a preamp. and likely has been for a long time now..... like for drums or probably anything. obviously thats the difference between the analog and digital world. and maybe thats just the answer. but it seems like even in the digital world studios still use pres.

just curious what peoples thoughts are on this

[DVDdoug]

REAPER doesn't come with any preamp simulator plug-ins.


First... I assume you know that your interface has a preamp built-in. A microphone won't work without a preamp.

Most interfaces are designed for condenser mics which have higher output and SOMETIMES the gain is a little low for a dynamic mic. A stand-alone preamp MIGHT have more gain so it's more suitable for a variety of mics.

With a different preamp the most noticeable difference will be the noise (background hiss). All analog electronics generate some nose and since a preamp has high gain any noise gets amplified. Otherwise, the differences in preamps is subtle and way-down on the list of the things that affect sound character/quality.

if i put compression on while tracking. it might be just cuz it sounds better as im singing....

Reverb is also common. Sometimes it's called "confidence reverb". These effects don't necessarily have to be recorded. The track can be recorded "clean" and effects added later when they can be adjusted/changed if desired.

There are channel stripplug-ins that package some of the common effects, but the same things can be accomplished with separate plug-ins.

[41TWIN]

Yeah, sorry I should've stated that. I'm using a Focusrite 2i2 I bought about 1-1/2 years ago. I think it's a 3rd gen. I have 5 mics to use. An SM57, SM58, Beta58, PG81 and MXL990. Obviously the MXL sounds the fullest when tracking if not using any plugins. The PG second. I do like using the SM57 alot though. Lately.

But yeah, for a quiet vocal, without anything pushing it, it's can be a little too quiet. I should try it with the input all the way up.

I did just watch a vid by warren huet saying if you record a clean signal at 65% or under. You can put anything on afterward and the sky is the limit. I still don't feel like I get clipping if I'm over that 65% mark but.... maybe I just don't hear it without turning it up. IDK. I also don't really hear a problem with noise to signal ratio, but maybe I'm just not hearing it like I should.... I have been trying to go for a more middle of the road signal size lately after someone said something like that. I always thought if I'm not clipping in the red, that's all that matters. LOL.

Anyways... that was a bit of a sidetrack. But yeah, the SM57 can be pretty quiet on it's one unless I'm doing drums or loud guitars or bass. So far if I was doing acoustic guitar, mandolin or vocals I had been grabbing the mxl or pg81. But I personally like the sound of the SM57 too.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by 41TWIN

or do u kinda make your own up with a few different plugins? or do u just do it all after tracking?

i use an sm57 a lot (on a budget) or for that matter any of the mics i have seem to work better doing vocals if i put compression on while tracking. it might be just cuz it sounds better as im singing....

but i mean, likely when good studios are using and sm57 or other similar mics, its bein run through a preamp. and likely has been for a long time now..... like for drums or probably anything. obviously thats the difference between the analog and digital world. and maybe thats just the answer. but it seems like even in the digital world studios still use pres.

just curious what peoples thoughts are on this

Anything you plug a mic into has to go through 'some' preamp, even if it's the one on the sound card input, just as a general FYI. The base signal from the mic is just too low-level hence the need for "preamplification" Also, many studios will use a compressor on the vocal, at least some compression after the preamp on it's way in. It's likely going to be needed anyway, the trick is to never overdo it because it can't be undone very well.

But in Reaper you can monitor with compression so you like the performance while singing, then use that same compression during playback so you don't have to "burn" the compression into the track if you don't want to.

However, if you ended up in a scenario where "I really like this compression I hear when I'm singing, and I'd really just like that to be part of the track forever"... Then you could just move the compressor plugin over to the InputFX and it would be recorded with that compression which is essentially the same result you'd get in a studio where I mentioned running through a compressor "on the way in".

Plenty of options to choose from.

The other tidbit is dynamic mics such as SM57 have a lower output than condensers, therefore when going through any preamp, you'll need to turn the preamps gain knob up higher to get the same signal level as you would get with a condenser such as the MXL. This is usually not a problem unless the preamp gets noisy or can't seem to turn up high enough for a dynamic mic without affecting the sound.

[serr]

Especially around 20 years ago there were all these budget small and medium size mixing boards that had just bluntly poorly designed mic preamps in them. It would have only taken a couple more proper value capacitors and transistors to make it correct on any budget... but that's what happened. So word on the street was you needed a boutique preamp to not suck.

Well, today even most of the shit preamps are designed with correct parts and this isn't a night vs day thing anymore. (Yes, you'll still find faux products at Worst Purchase and Amazon that are more like trolling than a product! Careful out there!)

There's one extra feature you might find on a stand alone boutique preamp. The ability to push the gain up to the moon. Not to suggest being silly and going for full distortion or thinking that distortion = fidelity or anything! Analog circuits will compress and saturate as they go into distortion. You may find yourself pushing a signal like that to focus on something a little buried in it.

Like a manual camera, most of the time the automated setting is cleaner and what you actually want. But with some experience you might get more out of the manual lens adjustments.

Digital recording without tape hiss is a game changer. You can record a raw mic signal now at 24 bit. You couldn't do that with tape. You'd have the signal buried under hiss. You can record the mic clean and do distortion tricks in the box after the fact. That led to some mic and mic preamp simulations - which still only go so far mind you. But you can do some of those mic preamp saturation tricks after the fact in the box now.

The Focusrite will have properly designed mic pres and do a lot. Distortion tricks in the box after the fact will get you saturation flavors. If you're chasing pristine fidelity, a more high falootin condenser mic and some room treatment with your Focusrite preamps is the direction for that. Any 3rd party distortion plugins are fair game to try for saturation/distortion effects.

[numberthirty]

Originally Posted by 41TWIN

Yeah, sorry I should've stated that. I'm using a Focusrite 2i2 I bought about 1-1/2 years ago. I think it's a 3rd gen. I have 5 mics to use. An SM57, SM58, Beta58, PG81 and MXL990. Obviously the MXL sounds the fullest when tracking if not using any plugins. The PG second. I do like using the SM57 alot though. Lately.

But yeah, for a quiet vocal, without anything pushing it, it's can be a little too quiet. I should try it with the input all the way up.

I did just watch a vid by warren huet saying if you record a clean signal at 65% or under. You can put anything on afterward and the sky is the limit. I still don't feel like I get clipping if I'm over that 65% mark but.... maybe I just don't hear it without turning it up. IDK. I also don't really hear a problem with noise to signal ratio, but maybe I'm just not hearing it like I should.... I have been trying to go for a more middle of the road signal size lately after someone said something like that. I always thought if I'm not clipping in the red, that's all that matters. LOL.

Anyways... that was a bit of a sidetrack. But yeah, the SM57 can be pretty quiet on it's one unless I'm doing drums or loud guitars or bass. So far if I was doing acoustic guitar, mandolin or vocals I had been grabbing the mxl or pg81. But I personally like the sound of the SM57 too.

Along the line of what Karbomusic mentioned, the SM57/SM7 are known for being rather low output.

Now, accounting for that reality, it is worth mentioning that there are some devices made with addressing this exact shortcoming in mind.

Here is one of them -

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...rophone-preamp

I'd be rather surprised if one of those(or something along that line...) wouldn't sort out the issue that you are describing.

[jrk]

Originally Posted by numberthirty

Along the line of what Karbomusic mentioned, the SM57/SM7 are known for being rather low output.

Also, the focusrite is known for having quite low mic gain.

[MiddleC]

I use a Fethead with my SM57 and my Focusrite. That fixed my gain problem.

[41TWIN]

A guitar website I go on where there is a recording forum, people have suggested the "cloudlifter" and another one less expensive called a clark something or other.

Those might be good idea for when I'm doing vocals....

But yeah, I've not set up monitoring from Reaper yet. I do it right out of the interface. I'm skeptical at trying anything else cuz I think my latency is not something I have to deal with. Seems on. Might be also doing it a different way but I didn't want to find out. LOL. I'm not super techie....

And yeah I do use compressors while tracking on my vocals. Almost always. ONE time I think I used too much of the major tom and it sounded like it got quieter as I got louder. Like I was pushing the compressor too hard. So I didn't use that take.... It was with my Beta58 and that compressor. I've not had that happen any other time yet with the Fairchild or 1175. So I don't mind "burning" a vocal with the compressor on while tracking. Might not be the best way though.... Still learning.

The 57 seems like it basically needs something though. Or it's too quiet. I suppose if I stuck it inside my mouth, that might work. LOL. Or like the dude from the Strokes seems to have his mouth on his 58 every time I see a video or live performance. So I'm guessing that's how he does it. But I'm sure they got some kind of compressor going....

[foxAsteria]

Idk why but I really like Arturia's Pre73. Tho it's pricey when not on sale.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by 41TWIN

But yeah, I've not set up monitoring from Reaper yet. I do it right out of the interface. I'm skeptical at trying anything else cuz I think my latency is not something I have to deal with. Seems on. Might be also doing it a different way but I didn't want to find out. LOL. I'm not super techie....

That's the way I've done it for 20+ years now.

The only time someone needs it through reaper is if they have some dependency on needing to hear FX from Reaper in their headphones (or are using a virtual instrument or amp SIM) while tracking. I do all my record monitoring, including any "performance FX" outside of Reaper which is great because it removes a ton of complexity and needs from Reaper.

As far as something like a CloudLifter, they quite are useful if the existing preamp doesn't have enough gain - I have one though I don't truly need one. They don't offer much benefit beyond that. There is one exception which is when using ribbon mics, they isolate any chance of phantom power making it to the ribbon mic. Which would not be an issue anyway if everything is wired correctly, but if it isn't it would prevent it from getting to the mic.

[serr]

I've done plenty of live sound with Reaper and bits of live thru fx studio work. I'm very familiar with setting Reaper latency and working with multiple audio interfaces in aggregate device.

I always go for the built-in cuemix mixer in interfaces for studio monitoring unless there's a real reason to go live. It's just there. No calibration to chase across multiple devices. Relaxed high latency setting on the computer, so hundreds of tracks in a project or 'big gun' latent plugins are never a concern.

And if you're doing a live broadcast mix that includes video and the mix isn't a live reinforcement mix: The video is always significantly latent behind the audio to begin with. Instead of putting a delay on your audio output, might as well just dial the latency up. Sync with the video AND a relaxed computer!

[numberthirty]

Originally Posted by 41TWIN

...

The 57 seems like it basically needs something though. Or it's too quiet.

...

Yeah.

It needs a lot of gain. Which is why a couple of folks from this board came up with the exact same conclusion as folks you mentioned on that guitar board.

SM57/SM7?

An inline preamp(the Cloudlifter/The Klark-Technik/The Triton Fethead...) was created with addressing this exact issue in mind.

If you want to look at that issue and say "Nah, gotta be something else..."?

No one can really stop you.

That said folks have given you an option that will most likely completely solve your problem

Plenty of YouTube videos on those products if you need someone to lay it out a bit more clearly with an "In Use..." example.

But, yeah...

The obvious thing in this instance is most likely the issue that you are describing.

[41TWIN]

Originally Posted by numberthirty

Yeah.

It needs a lot of gain. Which is why a couple of folks from this board came up with the exact same conclusion as folks you mentioned on that guitar board.

SM57/SM7?

An inline preamp(the Cloudlifter/The Klark-Technik/The Triton Fethead...) was created with addressing this exact issue in mind.

If you want to look at that issue and say "Nah, gotta be something else..."?

No one can really stop you.

That said folks have given you an option that will most likely completely solve your problem

Plenty of YouTube videos on those products if you need someone to lay it out a bit more clearly with an "In Use..." example.

But, yeah...

The obvious thing in this instance is most likely the issue that you are describing.

Yeah, might be good to try one. I like the price of the Clark one better than the cloudlifter. LOL. You kinda said it like I was disagreeing. But I didn't think I was. Anyways... I appreciate the suggestion.

[numberthirty]

Originally Posted by 41TWIN

Yeah, might be good to try one. I like the price of the Clark one better than the cloudlifter. LOL. You kinda said it like I was disagreeing. But I didn't think I was. Anyways... I appreciate the suggestion.

Man, don't take it like I was saying you were disagreeing(though I guess it did look a little like that typed out...)

It was more that it felt like you were still wondering out loud if there was something else that it could be.

As far as a percentage chance that it could be something other that the SM57 or SM7 just needing a lot of gain?

I would say there is, maybe, a five percent chance that there is something else going on.

That going with what MichaelC suggested will sort out your issue nine and one-half times out of ten.

Anyone who really likes the SM57 or the SM7, the very first thing I would personally suggest that they do is just buy an inline preamp to use with it.

Now, the Cloudlifter?

I do get the sticker shock. That said, I don't think that the Hulk could actually smash the one that I own. They are built that sturdy. To me, it's actually worth what they sell it for based on that alone.

Haven't actually seen one of the Clark-Technik units to say anything on way or another about it's build quality.

One other really "The Tiny Print..." thing, the company MichaelC mentioned make a separate version that will actually pass phantom for condensers that need the extra gain.

Don't know if that is anyone who might read this, but it does seem worth the mention.