AU vs VST on 10.6

[yagonnawantthatcowbell]

If a plug in comes in both AU and VST format for snow leopard, which is the preferred format to use in reaper?

[benebomber]

I heard that VSTs are running better than AU. Did not test it, so I can't confirm that myself, though.

Cheers.
b

[cerberus]

could anyone explain how or why a.u. are better than vst?
i wonder why a.u. exist? perhaps someone who has technical
expertise here could explain to us why we should use a.u. at all?

i guess i am happy that cockos supports a.u. because there are a few
plug-ins that are a.u. only. but who'd be surprised if they crashed reaper?!

try teragon audio's "aunotes" for a good example of this, it's obviously
made for logic users and only logic users... meh! i feel much more
comfortable with vst that are made for hosts which are responsibly coded.

[dub3000]

Originally Posted by cerberus

could anyone explain how or why a.u. are better than vst?
i wonder why a.u. exist? perhaps someone who has technical
expertise here could explain to us why we should use a.u. at all?

i guess i am happy that cockos supports a.u. because there are a few
plug-ins that are a.u. only. but who'd be surprised if they crashed reaper?!

try teragon audio's "aunotes" for a good example of this, it's obviously
made for logic users and only logic users... meh! i feel much more
comfortable with vst that are made for hosts which are responsibly coded.

AU format is designed/managed by Apple. VST format is designed/managed by Steinberg. Some companies don't like allowing other companies to have control of stuff like that.

AFAIK, neither is especially well-loved by developers (although the Microsoft-designed DX fx are even more hated). The VST spec leaves out a lot of detail which means that there are lots of different ways plugins and hosts can work, hence all the weird incompatibilities everywhere. Haven't used AUs so I don't know why people grumble about those but presumably there's something dumb in it that makes life difficult for developers.

Usually an AU and VST will be running the same audio code though. It's just the scaffolding and GUI code that'll be different.

[martimdurao]

VST is best. AU some times produces an isterical sound and crashes reaper.

[yagonnawantthatcowbell]

^^ Yup, found that out last night. Some crazy loud sound... almost took my head off... Registered +784 on the meters! Promptly uninstalled all AU plugs.

[jayendra]

Well NI Kontakt is only 64bit in AU not VST

[cerberus]

Originally Posted by jayendra

Well NI Kontakt is only 64bit in AU not VST

does it pass 64 bit audio? and how is the performance compared to the 32 bit version?

[jayendra]

Originally Posted by cerberus

does it pass 64 bit audio? and how is the performance compared to the 32 bit version?

Well the 32bit VST version in reaper64 has artifacts for latency cause its running bridged mode but the 64bit version in 64reaper creams. Loads quicker. Haven't checked ram usage though, but meant to be improvements.

And another cool thing is the AU version doesn't have that anoying surround that reaper puts on VST's - its always floating.

[cerberus]

Originally Posted by jayendra

And another cool thing is the AU version doesn't have that anoying surround that reaper puts on VST's - its always floating.

interesting, there are a few "frameless" vsts which draw without the white surround,
notably those which use cockos wdl/lice (stillwell and schwa plug-ins). other plug-ins
appear to draw their u.i's on top of the lice layer, rather than within it; thus the frame.

[Monotremata]

Originally Posted by martimdurao

VST is best. AU some times produces an isterical sound and crashes reaper.

Does this happen alot with random AU's??

I think this is exactly what happened to me today a couple of times I opened up the PPGWave AU earlier today.. The VST worked perfect but the AU nope..
First couple of times I opened it, it just didnt do anything.. Then the next couple it just put out this awful digital buzzing drone (that actually sounded like something that would come out of the PPG hahaha) and muting the track wouldnt even kill it. Had to remove the plug and it stopped.
First time it did it god that thing was LOUD! Second time it happened at least my speakers didnt sound like they were getting beat up..
Luckily Attack was just non-responsive and didnt start doing that!

Wierd thing is Ive used these plugins since they first came out (I bought PPG and Attack way back for OS 9 before there ever was a collective Waldorf Edition) and under Logic I have never experienced this problem. They pass validation and everything and I use the PPGWave on just about every song Ive done.. Could definitely be a host thing, but who knows.. Some of you mentioned the headaches that developers complain about and I know Wolfram Franke complained ALOT about the AU spec when they first moved to OS X which is why he refused to ever make AU versions of the original plugins..

[martimdurao]

Originally Posted by martimdurao

VST is best. AU some times produces an isterical sound and crashes reaper.

I have 2 AU that produces an hysterical sound: Omnispheare and Toontrack Drummer. On those two i use VST. All VST never gave me any trouble.

[hopi]

we also prefer vst to AU on snow leopard and Mac intel.... the AU's have had various problems here.... vst seems pretty stable

[Banned]

Both platforms are proprietary, and lack decent support and documentation, probably because of the usual strategical reasons in any proprietary platform war. Pick your poison(s) and swallow. ;P

While both flavors have their inherent pros and cons (e.g. AU does not need multiple plugin versions for different in/output configurations), it depends very much on (the (focus and skillset of the) developer of) the particular plugin, and how that happens to interoperates with the particular host in question (in this case Reaper. Sometimes the VST version is better (for some specific task), sometimes the AU. And it can also change with each plugin/host version, too. I always install both flavors.

On a slightly related note, our beloved ReaPlugs are neither available as VST nor as AU for OS X yet. For Reaper specifically, that would make for an interesting comparison between platforms, eliminating communication/coordination problems between host <--> plugin developers as potential source of problems.

[jens]

Originally Posted by dub3000

The VST spec leaves out a lot of detail which means that there are lots of different ways plugins and hosts can work.

I thought the problem was rather that many developers break the specs because they don't know them properly... ?

[dub3000]

Originally Posted by jens

I thought the problem was rather that many developers break the specs because they don't know them properly... ?

when specs are written in a way such that they can be interpreted different ways in a few key places... i wouldn't blame the developers.

[Banned]

Are you guys new to the phenomenon of platform wars maybe? It's all about strategic managing of expectations (google terms like "FUD", "extend embrace extinguish")...

[amix]

Originally Posted by Banned

Both platforms are proprietary, and lack decent support and documentation

I'm not a dev, but as far as I know, the AudioUnit (AU) format of Apple's CoreAudio has been created, to solve exactly this problem: Steinberg (VST) gives docs and examples and all kind of help to devs, who develop VST plugins, but the host documentation (how VSTs get loaded and hook to the hosting app) is not public. Thus devs must reverse engeneer VST in order to add it to their own applications. This is whay Apple opened all the specifications, including the host specs.

P.S. I know this thread is old. So what?!

[compasspnt]

I have had several crashes using UAD-1 plug-ins as VST, but they all work as AU.

?

[Snap]

It's not a black or white thing. Some work better as VST and crap or limited in AU versions. Some work better in AU instead. In my plugs count, a bigger amount working better as VST, but don't stick to that "rule". Better try by yourself.