Old 03-16-2012, 07:46 AM   #121
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IMHO, it's not very practical to argue about whether or not certain technologies are practical
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Old 03-16-2012, 09:55 AM   #122
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Also rather glad that it isn't just me that thinks the idea that "most" people have some sort of touchpad device is optimistic.
Hey, uhm.... it's the 21st century, you know. There may be some guy somewhere using Reaper on a 486 living in a hotel that doesn't even have a phone, but then he's also probably not the Average Reaper User.

Quote:
I suppose if you are middle or upper class and either in a good job
You can get unlimited plans in the U.S. for $50 a month. You get a free smart phone. You can pay less if you don't want an unlimited plan.

There are, unfortunately, a lot of people who can't afford that. They also can't afford Reaper, a computer or have the time and energy to bother with recording music.

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P.S. I got a Kindle for Xmas and love it & IF I could get a tablet for £60 - the equivalent of £100 at todays rate of exchange - I would.
Wait... wah? A Kindle is about $200? You can get Android tablets all day for less than that?

Ivan, you should consider your point of view may not be what you think it is. My point of view is informed by a couple hundred friends, 30 guitar students I see every week, and seeing "everyday people" routinely using a smart phone in public at the grocery store or the Mart of Wal. If one in the States does not have a touch phone, one probably has more important concerns than using a DAW.
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Old 03-16-2012, 09:57 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
(
Our neighbour and his wife have never worked in the fifteen years we have lived here and yet they can still afford to smoke and go to the pub at least a couple of nights a week.
Wow, where is this place???? I don't smoke or drink, so I could then turn that money into something like a better converter, or new strings? Where is this???
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:11 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by johnrule View Post
Well, actually they had tablets, over 10 years ago
Not wifi capable, in KMart for $100. Nor was the capability in the average cell phone.


Quote:
wireless touch screen devices (and wired) for controlling things like Reaktor, and it just doesn't work for me.
For *you*. Reaktor in general doesn't work for me to begin with, so that's not an issue. I'm not looking for some enormous monolithic replacement for Everything I Do.


Quote:
responses to some of my posts that I "just didn't get it". I have
You don't see that your concern about it not working for you with Reaktor isn't necessarily the final determining factor for other people you don't know?



Quote:
been selling my software for this type of remote control purpose for over 10 years (and controlling things remotely for over 20) and have not seen
Hmm... and such things weren't as cheap then as they are now, I suppose.


Quote:
this type of enthusiasm until OSC. I guess people like the acronym or something.
Ok, here it is simply: it was not possible to do 10 years ago what I can do now for $5, on either the hardware end or the software side. That is what is great about it for me.

Quote:
everything in real-time. What would I need remote capability for? I
To control your DAW from across the room as you sit at the drum kit. Or to check levels and eq from a different perspective. Or to merely convert all the rotary controls on screen to faders because you don't like rotary controls. Or to simple have your transport controls sitting in front of you while you play guitar instead of having to sit at the computer/keyboard. On and on...

Quote:
Actually, Lemur was a video company (editing and software I believe) and they have moved into this area fairly recently. I am going strictly by
"Fairly recently" doesn't matter. I can't get one for $5.

Quote:
Finally, something that is humorous and not personal.
Okkkk.....

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I personally think it is a bit subversive not to use something that identifies yourself...but that's the freedom of the Internet.
"Not to use something that identifies yourself"? How have I not identified myself? Wah?


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I don't see where this hostility is coming from,
????

Quote:
and I kept things light enough (and impersonal) in my post,
Saying I'm shilling an app is light and impersonal? "Ok".

Quote:
It seems like you are lashing out at me about something anyway, no?
Sigh.
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:12 AM   #125
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This is the most baffling ... phenomenon I've encountered on this forum.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:27 PM   #126
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Until now I have used TouchOSC in my studio with all the necessary eqpuipment. But how does it work when I not in a situation with a wifi router? How does that work?
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:59 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
Not wifi capable, in KMart for $100.
That wasn't the point. You said "10 years ago people didn't have wifi and smart phones with touch screens." to which I was responding that people did in fact have wifi with touch screens. I didn't respond to "smart phones" because they obviously did not have smart phones 10 years ago. Your point seemed to be that we couldn't do this at all until now, and to imply that only today could we do anything even remotely (pun intended) like this is absurd.

In fact, wireless PCs and Macs with touch screens have been around for almost a decade too (i.e. Viewsonic, TrollTouch, et al). The advent of the iPod/iPhone etc. has made it's use practical only recently, and this is what I believe is at the heart of the current enthusiasm (which was the point of my linked post). However, the main problem has not changed for me in terms of tactile sensation. For example, I tried to use my iPod Touch for some remote modulation but I wound up using my $25 Logitech with two joysticks because of the wonderful "tactile-ness"...it was just more practical for me. Reaper also has great integration in this regard too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
For *you*.
Uh, yeah...that's what I have been saying.

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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
Reaktor in general doesn't work for me to begin with, so that's not an issue.
For * you *.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
You don't see that your concern about it not working for you with Reaktor isn't necessarily the final determining factor for other people you don't know?
Uh, no...I never said or even implied that (i.e. my concern is a determining factor).

I am sharing my personal observations, and that is all. One of my observations is that this seems to be bit fanatical, and I think there is some truth to that. Whether it is personal enthusiasm or marketing (or both) I am not sure, and the ambiguity is making it a little difficult to discern. It just seems a little in-your-face to me too.

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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
Hmm... and such things weren't as cheap then as they are now, I suppose.
Uh, yeah...prices were different years ago..I didn't make any price comparison. In terms of features, I was surprised when the first iDevices came out and they were only single core /400 Mhz or so...I actually laughed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
Ok, here it is simply: it was not possible to do 10 years ago...
Actually, it was. All things being equal (i.e. already owning the wireless touch device) all you needed was software. You are eliminating the cost of the iDevice and that is not fair....you had to buy it! Besides, there were a lot of things you could do regardless...let's not do the time-warp dance though.

I was trying to compare oranges to oranges in terms of what is really new, and what is useful and practical, and for what reason. I personally don't see anything new in terms of remote control other than smaller and cheaper devices...and that was the point of my analysis in the link in my last post. Everything has reached a critical-mass in terms of what people can get in their hands; it's not about new software technology or communications protocols IMO.

It was the presentation that bugged me (personally). The integration of OSC took over the forum, and hundreds of posts poured in about this "new" technology. I thought it was a few new members at first (and thought it was cute) but it has turned into something more visceral for some reason. I want to reiterate something in this respect...I don't think anyone actually said they "hated OSC" (or even implied it actually) and yet this phrase has been bandied about. This is a sign of fanaticism to me.

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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
To control your DAW from across the room as you sit at the drum kit...On and on...
Yes, isn't remote control wonderful? We've been able to remotely control DAWs (and many other things) for many years, and I have personally been able to do all of this using wireless touch screens for many years too. That's why this boggles my mind. Cockos even released a webkit over a year ago, for which I developed custom integration into my software to allow anyone to develop multi-touch control interfaces (for iDevcies or Android), and it just fizzled. Where was everyone back then?

In terms of my presentation, I was simply providing my personal experience with touch screens (old and new) and that nothing is really new in terms of functionality, and the same issues exist for me. I'm not attacking anyone's precious iDevice either...I have them as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
"Not to use something that identifies yourself"? How have I not identified myself? Wah? Saying I'm shilling an app is light and impersonal?
I think the misinterpretation of my implication is the problem.

I didn't say anything about you being a shill...in fact, I said the opposite. The only time "shill" was mentioned was in schwa's response to my post, clarifying that you are not a "shill", and that my comment would be ridiculous in that regard. It was all tongue-in-cheek, and a bit of a reprimand (as in "you better not be saying that!"). That was my take on it anyway.

I was implying that some people do not represent themselves truthfully when they are online and the fact that you are using your real name and a real picture (of a sort) is actually commendable. The only part that could be misconstrued is when I implied that if you (or anyone) mentioned a low price for software more than once (you had mentioned that price before), and did not use some form of personal identification, I "might think you really do work for a developer!". Besides, it isn't that much of a conspiracy IMO. I suppose I could be a shill too, eh? (note the smiley face to indicate lightheartedness and good will)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
This is the most baffling ... phenomenon I've encountered on this forum.
I hope you see that you are twisting things a bit though.

In terms of your hostility towards me, it just seemed that your sarcasm had crossed a line, but maybe I was mistaken. I will just say that this is not an argument at all, and merely a philosophical discussion.

Last edited by johnrule; 03-16-2012 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:11 PM   #128
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Johnrule, you have made your point quite clearly: you have known about wifi touchscreens for years and you are baffled that the rest of the world hasn't.
I acknowledge you as a prescient. So let's get on with it.

Please accept that we are enthousiasted about the new toy and that we will discover soon, just like you have before us, what is practical and what isn't.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:27 PM   #129
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The integration of OSC took over the forum, and hundreds of posts poured in about this "new" technology.
I really don't understand your "issue". Just because something isn't new to you it somehow bothers you that it's new to other people? What is your point, other then trying to tell others you'd seen and done it all and you are bothered by us who are simply learning?
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Old 03-16-2012, 04:13 PM   #130
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Can't speak for Johnrule, but the "issue" was published in the very title of this topic; OSC practical usage. More so, Viente asked
Quote:
Could anybody tell me what is the practical benefit of this feature? What is the real world situations when the OSC can improve the workflow?
Contrary to the title, it seems the practical usage or questioning some aspects of it has however been turned into last thing allowed to be discussed in this topic. Especially so if you happen to have prior experience about the matter. Good going.
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Old 03-16-2012, 04:21 PM   #131
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you guys are fussing about the choice by reaper to deliver new levels of joy to its users by truck, instead of by horse, and ignoring the important bit: the new levels of joy.
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Old 03-16-2012, 04:46 PM   #132
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To stay in the topic title, i would say that one of the practical usage of OSC in Reaper is, in the context of Ipad, to design the interface that fit the way you work, you can put slider, knob, button (switch, pad) where you want, program them to do what you want, to interact with your workflow.

All of this with a not so difficult "language" ... i always find that the limitation of midi remote controller are the closed design (miss one more pad here, one master slider there, and so on), with ReaperOsc, a tablet and a OSC software you can build the interface man/machine you desire, you can share with other or not.

This is not a revolution, OSC is not superior to Midi nor the tablet to Remote controller but i have done years ago a xml file to control Cubase with the BCF2000, try the Novation ZeroSL but there was always something wrong or missing in the workflow.

I think there no need to fight each other, OSC in Reaper is great because it's something more for us, it's free, it don't take more CPU usage and open some new doors.

Just my two cents, and sorry for my not so good english.

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Old 03-16-2012, 05:39 PM   #133
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I agree, no need to fight over an apparently useful feature. But I also know it's not just all roses for everybody, even if you're willing to adapt as much as you could.

Currently it's the owners of touch thingies willing to use their paddies in music environment who might reap the practical benefits easiest.

Personally I don't own a smart phone (or any touch devices) and just recently actually bought a new regular phone instead. I'm not the only person in the world making this decision either. Also, there will not be wireless control in my music room. Remote control I've already had for decades for whatever little my needs have been.

However, I have to thank Banned for starting
Remote MIDI controllers and parameter feedback
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=97255

I do have MIDI controllers and might have practical use for better control/feedback with them. This point is still almost moot since I already do have that control working AND I would also first have to start coding with this new feature to then benefit from it...I don't consider the ability to code a real practical use all by itself, you know.
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:57 PM   #134
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i have never had a smartphone.

last week, i found an iphone on the street.
i attempted to contact the owner and got no response
yesterday i jailbroke it.
today, i installed touchosc and set it up in REAPER in under 20 minutes
now i have an extremely and easily customizable portable midi controller

not only am i just blown away at the power of having a smartphone
i am also thrilled with the timing of REAPER osc development.

this is the biggest power payoff with the least amount of tinkering i've seen yet in REAPER.

i think those who doubt will be wooed.
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Old 03-17-2012, 02:22 AM   #135
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Nym.... a likely story - you FOUND an iPhone on the street and managed to install a working OSC app on it immediately!

Admit it, you had to get Banned to do it for you.

(snigger)
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Old 03-17-2012, 03:21 AM   #136
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This thread is so going in circles.
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Old 03-17-2012, 05:49 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenK-msx
you guys are fussing...
It sure seems that way, doesn't it?

I didn't mean to go into a history lesson on remote control either...my apologies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer
This thread is so going in circles.
Agreed. I did have to clear up a misunderstanding though, hence the recent prolific activity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomm
I really don't understand your "issue". Just because something isn't new to you it somehow bothers you that it's new to other people.
I don't have an issue (and it doesn't bother me), but I did post an opinion about how practical using a touch screen is (nothing to do with OSC by the way), and this seems to be the trigger for others. I have to admit that I may have instigated some of this by calling the whole thing a "shiny new toy". So what, right? It's fun and people find remote control useful (and so do I!). I meant no disparity...and it was a bit arrogant. My apologies for that too.

The perception that I have a problem with "it" is also curious to me, and I wind up writing quite a bit trying to analyze why there is a backlash in this respect.

And here I will stop.

Have fun!
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Old 03-17-2012, 07:12 AM   #138
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And here I will stop.
Oh come on, let's just continue fussing about something slightly different. Circles are fun, but so are other shapes. While keeping the light tone of course.
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Originally Posted by johnrule View Post
In terms of features, I was surprised when the first iDevices came out and they were only single core /400 Mhz or so...I actually laughed.
All the iPhone experts that I know (without meaning to brag, I happen to know a few key industry insiders) actually chuckled at people who ridiculed its CPU speed. At that point in time, battery usage was *way* more important than CPU cycles, and given the state of battery technology back then (capacity/size, price) it was a *very* sensible decision of Apple's engineers to underclock the 600MHz CPU to 'only' 400. People were staring at their touch screens at full brightness for hours, complaining that the battery ran out every single day, often less than that, "while they didn't even do anything with it." Yet nobody in the market even came close to the user experience, regardless of CPU cycles of their offerings. The limit of CPU's will *always* be pushed to the limit by users, and I find a 3G[S] on iOS 5.x more sluggish than an iPhone on iPhone OS 1.1.4 - which is still almost as usable as an OSC controller, and for the software specs. CPU speed is critical for many things, but is really not that important for this type of app in my experience.

(You may also have laughed about the 1st generation iPhone 'missing a video camera', perhaps? Technically it could do video recording just fine, albeit at a modest framerate of about 15 fps, but at the cost of battery drain - which imho is the most likely reason why Apple chose not to allow it, and not even to speak about it - they did not even acknowledge submissions of video recording apps to the App Store with a formal rejection).

Did you also laugh at me back when my desktop DAW had only a 533 MHz single core CPU? Or when my Amiga / Atari ST sequenced MIDI with a mere 1 MHz - in some scenario's more reliably than REAPER still can do?

To keep the discussion relevant and on topic, let me just put my practical conclusion as a couple of general tips for *new* users of control apps on tablets / smartphones (I'm pretty sure John knows all about this as well):

While going wireless can be fun or handy, and battery tech has vastly improved in the last years, keeping a bright screen and networking alive still makes it worthwhile to plug in your device most of the time when used as a controller. And sending IP traffic over USB (usbmuxd hacks etc.) has better bandwidth/latency too, and avoiding wireless networking minimizes interference with other electronic equipment in your studio, so using a USB cable combines a few advantage. While planning for a studio setup or live performance, all such details matter to us of course.

Also, about the CPU cycles: typically, control data uses an order of magnitude less resources than audio. It compares to audio use much like MIDI or automation. There is not much reason to fear heavy CPU loads for practically usable setups. Of course here every detail may count as well, so especially when planning for huge setups, it becomes important as well how local and network traffic scales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrule View Post
[...] We've been able to remotely control DAWs (and many other things) for many years, and I have personally been able to do all of this using wireless touch screens for many years too. That's why this boggles my mind. Cockos even released a webkit over a year ago, for which I developed custom integration into my software to allow anyone to develop multi-touch control interfaces (for iDevcies or Android), and it just fizzled. Where was everyone back then?
I was right here, still waiting for feedback. As any rock guitar player since Jimi Hendrix knows, the huge gain comes with feedback.
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Old 03-17-2012, 08:26 AM   #139
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Oh come on, let's just continue fussing about something slightly different....I happen to know a few key industry insiders) actually chuckled at people who ridiculed its CPU speed
Again, I apologize. I threw that in there to see if anyone would bite and respond in a fanatical way...it was manipulative and wrong. I was trying to show that this drumhead (i.e. witch-hunt) stuff was about something else, and not about anything in particular.

I also owe Chip another apology for projecting my suspicions of social-networking marketing onto him...it was not about you at all. I felt a little manipulated myself with all of this product placement, but it was probably just genuine enthusiasm bubbling over.

I humbly apologize for raising anyone's hackles (i.e. rubbing you the wrong way). Please, enjoy your remote control stuff, and I will only post about this again to clarify or apologize!
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Old 03-17-2012, 08:54 AM   #140
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Hehe, good to see we can continue fussing.
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[...] all of this product placement, but it was probably just genuine enthusiasm bubbling over.
I am sure about the latter. Imho h3xl3r is simply an excellent indie developer that managed to find a sweet spot between the free OSC apps (one only needs to search for "OSC" on the App Store to find other free apps, some of which I consider excellent in their own right - a point you have already alluded to yourself) and the more expensive ones by creating a slick design and a set of documentation and tools so that many people find it easy enough to actually use. Why don't you just try beating him at that game with your software?

When users almost routinely come in and ask questions, not even mentioning "Oh, btw, I'm using TouchOSC", then I can only compliment the next-gen astroturf engineers for their devious sock puppet conspiracy.
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:33 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Banned View Post
...
Did you also laugh at me back when my desktop DAW had only a 533 MHz single core CPU? Or when my Amiga / Atari ST sequenced MIDI with a mere 1 MHz - in some scenario's more reliably than REAPER still can do?
...
My Atari ST was clocked at 8 MHz, so my music back then must have been 8 times better than yours.
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Old 03-17-2012, 03:48 PM   #142
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Like it or not MIDI will run in parallel with OSC in future products, It will enhance MIDI but it will not replace it, at least in the Pro world for quite a while unless you see Yamaha buy OSC..
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Old 03-18-2012, 04:45 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Banned View Post
Why don't you just try beating him at that game with your software?
I'll see what I can do. I might have a trick or two up my sleeve.

My apologies again...you were trying to reboot this thread to something more positive. Let's do just that.

Is it not possible to have a multi-message message? I looked through the bug report pages and saw the multi-parameter stuff, but nothing like what I want to do. What I would like to do is send a STOP command followed by the rewind and forward OFF commands:

t/stop + b/forward 0 + b/rewind 0

Know what I mean? I would like to stop three things from one string as a sort of reset for all three conditions. If I could do this, it might even be practical.
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:29 AM   #144
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That wasn't the point. You said "10 years ago people didn't have wifi and smart phones with touch screens." to which I was responding that people did in fact have wifi with touch screens.
Please re-read my exact sentence and note the word "with".

Quote:
I didn't respond to "smart phones" because they obviously did not have smart phones 10 years ago.
Which was my point. Smart phones WITH touch screens.


Quote:
Your point seemed to be that we couldn't do this at all until now,
No, you comprehended my sentence incorrectly.


Quote:
or marketing (or both) I am not sure,
I'll have to take this up at the next board meeting at with the staff at Oldman Socks.


Quote:
Uh, yeah...prices were different years ago..
Which, again, is why OSC is now viable and wasn't 10 years ago.


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touch device) all you needed was software. You are eliminating the cost of the iDevice and that is not fair....you had to buy it!
That's like saying Reaper costs $560, because you have to include the price of the computer since you had to buy it.

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misconstrued is when I implied that if you (or anyone) mentioned a low price for software more than once (you had mentioned that price before), and did not use some form of personal identification,
The low price is the point.

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I hope you see that you are twisting things a bit though.
"Ok."

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In terms of your hostility towards me, it just seemed that your sarcasm had crossed a line, but maybe I was mistaken. I will just say that this is not an argument at all, and merely a philosophical discussion.
"Ok."
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:39 AM   #145
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Just occurred to me today I can now remove my midi keyboard from my desk in front of my monitor since I don't need to be tied to the computer keyboard or screen.

As such, I'm kind of glad I *don't* have an IPad, because the form factor makes my phone more portable: just sit it on the keyboard.
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:04 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by johnrule View Post
Is it not possible to have a multi-message message? I looked through the bug report pages and saw the multi-parameter stuff, but nothing like what I want to do. What I would like to do is send a STOP command followed by the rewind and forward OFF commands:

t/stop + b/forward 0 + b/rewind 0

Know what I mean? I would like to stop three things from one string as a sort of reset for all three conditions. If I could do this, it might even be practical.
You can wrap the messages in an OSC Bundle (half way down page shows how to put them together).

Btw, I'm with you re tactile feedback of touch screens. I'm developing an app that just uses loads of multitouch gestures (with big "control zones" to extend the functionality from one area to many) to do things that you won't have to look at the screen to do.

Only nimble fingered musicians will be able to use it.
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Old 03-20-2012, 05:40 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by captain_caveman View Post
You can wrap the messages in an OSC Bundle (half way down page shows how to put them together).
I was hoping there was an easy way to do it using the Reaper protocol (in one SEND command) but I can improvise something internally with a bundle.

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I'm developing an app that just uses loads of multitouch gestures...
Sounds good!!
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Old 03-20-2012, 07:49 PM   #148
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Banned - stop being a patronising twat.

As with so many arrogant dorks like yourself, you assume that YOUR opinion is the only one that counts.

Start being a little more polite,.

This is probably a step back in the discussion but, wow! This comment was way out of line. I haven't posted on the reaper forums for a while, but after browsing a few threads this post really stood out. From what I've read, Banned, J. Rule and many others have made many interesting and constructive points about the potential (non)uses of OSC. I for one appreciate their input and I hope they continue contributing.


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Old 05-10-2012, 12:56 AM   #149
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If you're a producer who just sit in front of DAW and make music, its useless in most cases (at least for now).
Wrong. There is no one type of producing only, the more live oriented you are producing the more you will want better and multiple-parallel controls. Can you do this also with midi? Yes. But only as long as there is support for it in the DAW. You want examples? Try to control your send levels via external midi events, independently, without having to select anything, all moving in parallel. Not possible in Reaper with midi, but OSC. Why? Ask the Cockos developers.
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Old 05-10-2012, 01:17 AM   #150
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Wrong. There is no one type of producing only, the more live oriented you are producing the more you will want better and multiple-parallel controls. Can you do this also with midi? Yes. But only as long as there is support for it in the DAW. You want examples? Try to control your send levels via external midi events, independently, without having to select anything, all moving in parallel. Not possible in Reaper with midi, but OSC. Why? Ask the Cockos developers.
i'm not talking about live oriented producing here. Anyway why should i control my send levels via external midi events? I'm making electronic dance music for some big names out there (as ghost producer). I need to work fast. I've tried to play with this fancy MIDI & OSC controllers, but all i got is PITA, constantly switching my attention from DAW to controller devices and vice versa. I can do all this stuff with mouse without any problems (and much faster!). I know exactly what i need to do so why do i bother and make things more complicated trying to control all that stuff with another device which only takes additional space on my desktop?
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Old 05-10-2012, 01:27 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by Viente View Post
i'm not talking about live oriented producing here. Anyway why should i control my send levels via external midi events? I'm making electronic dance music for some big names out there (as ghost producer). I need to work fast. I've tried to play with this fancy MIDI & OSC controllers, but all i got is PITA, constantly switching my attention from DAW to controller devices and vice versa. I can do all this stuff with mouse without any problems (and much faster!). I know exactly what i need to do so why do i bother and make things more complicated trying to control all that stuff with another device which only takes additional space on my desktop? And i don't care if its fun. Its business!
Yeah, above you mentioned "producing", including live producing, not only your automation-mousing. Viente, sorry, I can not help you. If you do not use anything, or see any value in anything, this does not mean anything. It is not the fact, it is not the truth. Just use what you like and be happy, but also do not blame anybody for anything. Who cares if you are a ghost producer for anybody?
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Old 05-10-2012, 01:34 AM   #152
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do not blame anybody for anything.
Where on earth do you see this? I just started this thread to find out how OSC can improve my workflow, and after some experiments i must admit it can't. But if this is useful for most people its still cool for me
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Old 05-10-2012, 01:47 AM   #153
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If you do not use anything, or see any value in anything, this does not mean anything.
And you telling this because your opinion is just different than others? How pathetic... I see a lot of value in other things you just don't know about
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