Old 03-12-2012, 08:41 AM   #81
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Are there any dedicated OSC devices coming out that are cost effective enough to replace midi controllers? One OSC device could replace a whole box full of midi devices... maybe the problem right now is that there aren't dedicated OSC devices.
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:32 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
[...] twat [...] arrogant dorks like yourself [...]
Start being a little more polite,.
I'm really sorry if I offended you, although I find it hard to take that remark serious. Please tell me where I was not polite to you? (preferably via PM, OT)
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[...] you assume that YOUR opinion is the only one that counts.
Actually, if you read what I wrote, I didn't. But apparently you do:
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Nothing to see here, folks...
Check this little video out perhaps, getting back on topic: M4L2R42 (143kb .mov)

DAW1: "Hey REAPER, wanna come out and play with me?"

DAW2: "Yeah, sure."
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:40 AM   #83
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The #1 thing I want to do is convert voltage to OSC messages.[...] I think what it will actually be is Silent Way converting DC to AC and vice versa.
There are some Numerology 3 Pro users following this approach (and loving it!). Perhaps check it out if you haven't yet (it makes a great complement to REAPER imho).
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Old 03-12-2012, 02:31 PM   #84
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I'm certainly interested in using all kinds of devices to help me mix.

Funny stuff like Wiimotes. Wacom pens are another example. Position, angle and pressure.

You could probably setup the Wacom to influence a freely setup combination of parameters on a plugin-type basis, which I'd be quite interested in, seeing that Burtt used this approach for creation of the Wall-E voices in Kyma. I can certainly see folks playing with filter frequencies, Q and resonance.

Banned, could one OSC device (like one of those pesky touch screens) influence what I control with another device, such as switching what band in an EQ another device controls ?
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Old 03-12-2012, 03:16 PM   #85
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Banned, could one OSC device (like one of those pesky touch screens) influence what I control with another device, such as switching what band in an EQ another device controls ?
Yep, that's quite easy actually. Deciding where you want which knobs, that's the hardest part (but perhaps you have already figured out that part for yourself a long time ago).

I'm currently doing these type of things using a plain MIDI controller (OSC would be even easier, skipping any conversion, only having to do switching and routing) and a Pure data patch, in which I have prototyped a near feature complete implementation of the features REAPER supports with OSC. The Pd patch can be seen as a 'virtual' OSC controller device - similar features could of course be implemented just as well in any suitable physical device. The function of one knob can easily be switched by another knob, whether that other knob is on the same device or another does not matter much from a technical perspective (it is just adding one level of indirection ).

I'm also working on using a touch screen simultaneously, for overview and quick target selection for the main (physical) controller. I plan to use it to do mainly 2 things: (1) display a 'moving window' of 8 tracks x 8 sends + 8 receives + 8 insert slots (i.e. 192 buttons - not easy to fit on a iPhone and still be usable) which also allows one to select of the 8 tracks and one of the 64 visible inserts for direct control, and (2) (on a different screen layout) show which parameters are currently being controlled and what their current values are (switching between 16 plugin parameters + 16 Track FX parameters or 32 plugin parameters).

Btw, building a Pd or Max patch for my Wacom Intuos 3 pen is also on my to-do list, although at a low-priority position. Feel free to ping me with a reminder periodically though.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:20 AM   #86
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I wanted to post a link to something that might be "practical" for some OSC users, or for people who just want to experiment...and try to find some practical use:

It can be found here...
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:18 AM   #87
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I have been working on an iPad layout and would like to discuss a few technical and behavioural issues. Is there already a thread about that?
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Old 03-14-2012, 04:24 AM   #88
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I have been working on an iPad layout and would like to discuss a few technical and behavioural issues. Is there already a thread about that?
For what? If it's for TouchOSC, this may be a suitable thread. Hint: especially for technical issues, you really should try to be a bit more specific so others can help you better.
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:29 AM   #89
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This leads me to two questions...

1.: Is there any kinda OSC software to "make" such guis like seen in TouchOSC for Win/Mac?
2.: Is there any touchdisplay for win/mac to buy, which acts as addon?

What I think about:
It's good, if it's possible to "outsource" parts of the projects - out of the monitor. This could be transport panel, but also several plugins or only part of plugins. It would be great to control e.g. a dualfilter (maybe Filterstation oder PhiltaXL) via an touchpanel!

An iPad is no option so far - too expensive and not really what I want.

The Steinberg CMC series looks great, for example. But I don't need them all at once... it would be so great to have 1 panel, which can be switched thru all "layouts". Well, you may know this approach from Art.Lebedev Optimus keyboard, which is a great concept, but, huuh... too expensive.

However, it's good to have the OSC feature that early... the devs could focus then again on other bugs (or FR, see signature ) :P
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:29 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Lopez View Post
1.: Is there any kinda OSC software to "make" such guis like seen in TouchOSC for Win/Mac?
2.: Is there any touchdisplay for win/mac to buy, which acts as addon?
1. Check out Max/MSP or Pure data perhaps. The former is probably the better choice for easily (relatively speaking) creating slick GUIs, the latter is free software that can also be used on Linux and many other platforms (including iOS and Android), so is perhaps the better choice for a dedicated cheap controller device. Elsewhere I have shown a few simple examples of how to use Pd to do such a thing (just leave out the MIDI stuff and you'll be left with a basic GUI; just keep in mind that Pd is a bit like Jesusonic, it's not made to *be* beautiful but to *do* beautiful things.). I'll probably post some better ones in a while, but it should already be enough to get going

2. iOS devices can of course also be used/seen as an addon (for VNC/RDP, touchpad/mouse emulation, etc.). There are dedicated touch screens available which can show entire pieces of the GUI (i.e. map a plugin GUI including controls onto a touch screen) but they are much more expensive than the latest and greatest iPad 3, in the price range beyond Lemur even. Which is not what you seem to be looking for at all... I guess if even a second hand iPad (or cheap Anfroid tablet?) is over the budget limit, easily customizable touch screens of decent quality are simply still out of range.

For those on a real tight budget looking for great hardware, perhaps check out some (non-touchscreen) DIY stuff like Arduino or Sparkfun. I'm sure one can build incredibly powerful controller setups with those for a very modest budget, but it will probably also take a lot of work (which some people would call "fun" though).

PS: for controlling (dual) filters, perhaps also try an accelerometer (low budget tips: 2nd hand 1st gen. iPhone with broken screen; RealPlay 2 PuzzleSphere via junXion). Another favorite: ultrasound sensors (e.g. junXion+junXionboard).
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Old 03-14-2012, 02:23 PM   #91
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Can I ask a couple of quick n00b questions re writing an OSC app....

1. Is Reaper the server?

2. Do we connect with UDP, TCP or either?
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Old 03-14-2012, 03:22 PM   #92
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Can I ask a couple of quick n00b questions re writing an OSC app....

1. Is Reaper the server?

2. Do we connect with UDP, TCP or either?
1. Afaik, technically speaking REAPER is a client when it is sending messages, and a server when receiving messages (and the same goes for the control surface). Arguably REAPER's main function is to be a server, but it also behaves like a client to provide the control surface with 'feedback' (which may not be needed by the control surface).

2. Afaik, for now, UDP only.
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Last edited by Banned; 03-14-2012 at 04:32 PM. Reason: err, confused server and client.
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Old 03-14-2012, 04:01 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned View Post
1. Afaik, technically speaking REAPER is a server when it is sending messages, and a client when receiving messages (and the same goes for the control surface). Arguably REAPER's main function is to be a server, but it also behaves like a client to provide the control surface with 'feedback' (which may not be needed by the control surface).
Thanks, but the two parts of that paragraph mean opposite things.
Quote:
2. Afaik, for now, UDP only.
Cool, thanks very much.
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Old 03-14-2012, 04:08 PM   #94
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If you are writing an OSC app, the app is the client and REAPER is the server when the app is sending messages to REAPER. The app is the server and REAPER is the client when REAPER is sending messages to the app.

If your app will both send and receive messages, you need to write two different pieces of UDP handling code, one where the app is the client, and one where the app is the server.
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Old 03-14-2012, 04:21 PM   #95
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Cool, merci beaucoup Schwa... I thought that... I'm having problems connecting (Basic4Android at the mo) so I am ruling out all possible stupidity.
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Old 03-14-2012, 04:31 PM   #96
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Thanks, but the two parts of that paragraph mean opposite things.
Oops, indeed. (Corrected now)
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Old 03-14-2012, 05:03 PM   #97
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Oops, indeed. (Corrected now)
No worries... even the most ultimate superheroes have a brain fart every now and then.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:50 AM   #98
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Okay, I'm having a bit of trouble with this at the moment. I am sending messages and Reaper is getting them (I see them in the Listen window).

From the Default.ReaperOSC...
Code:
SCROLL_X- b/scroll/x/- r/scroll/x
... I take...
Code:
b/scroll/x/-
... and add a forward slash at the beginning to define it as a message, rather than a bundle...
Code:
/b/scroll/x/-
... then I am sending that, or sending it padded out with bytes of zero value to make it a multiple of 32 bits and it isn't working.

What am I not getting?
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:13 AM   #99
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[...] What am I not getting?
Get rid of the "b" prefix part (or "/b"). It's not part of the address, and not used to indicate a bundle; it's a flag to define behavior.

It is documented in the comments in the default configuration file (I also find the syntax a bit confusing with the flag prefixed to the address, but it does work).

Try sending just
Code:
/scroll/x/-
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:22 AM   #100
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The hatred for OSC is completely bewildering to be, but here is my $.10:


The reason this is exciting to me is that for one, I already had a phone. For $5 I was up and running; there is no other "external control surface" solution I can get for $5.

Two: the practicality of it is both simple and surprisingly more drastic than I thought it would be - at least for me. I had suspicions this would be the case, but never the less it's taken me aback:

* The simple act of standing up from the computer, and walking around the room while I adjust eq gives me a PROFOUNDLY different perspective, relative to being tied down to a chair and a mouse.

I can't iterate this enough, I don't know if it's physiological from hearing the differences as I walk around, or psychological from not being bound to a chair - but it's startling.

I don't want it to supplant anything. But it's AMAZING how my thought process when eq'ing/setting levels seems to become much more sensible, just by listening to a change while being a different room, walking to my computer, standing at the back of the room, whatever. It's *not* the same thing as going there and listening; just having the option of altering the sound by changing it from that location is a revelation.

$.10 on $5.
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:27 AM   #101
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Ah right, I'd glossed over that bit altogether.

Unfortunately for some reason it's still not working. I can get the messages through and the Listen window will show....
Code:
/scroll/x/-
/scroll/x/-
/scroll/x/-
/scroll/x/-
/scroll/x/-
/scroll/x/-
.... etc etc as many different times as the message is sent, but Reaper doesn't respond.

I have tried...
Code:
/record
... too. Same result. I'm doing it with appending 0s (byte values) at the end to make them a multiple of 4 bytes as well as leaving the padding out too.

Any ideas as to what I am doing wrong?
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:09 AM   #102
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[...] Any ideas as to what I am doing wrong?
Try sending the messages with a value of 1. Look at the difference between the t/* and b/* flags (sorry, in my earlier answer I made the same mistake), e.g.
Code:
/record 1
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:07 AM   #103
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Coolio, thanks - that's it doing stuff now!

It was looking for an integer argument so the line was (bold is for byte value instead of ASCII (oh, and I changed it to the rotary command))...

/scroll/x000,i000001

Woot!
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:48 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
The hatred for OSC is completely bewildering to be, but here is my $.10:
I don't think it's hatred for OSC, I think it's offense for this in-your-face prognostication. It's not like people didn't know what OSC was...Native Instruments has been using it for over 10 years. I just don't think people want it (or see the need for it) as much as you. Now where is that $10 you mentioned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
The reason this is exciting to me is that for one, I already had a phone. For $5. I was up and running; there is no other "external control surface" solution I can get for $5.
You've posted about this price several times now...are you working for a developer or something? This is the other reason (to me anyway): please stop with the hard sell! If people want it they will get it. This is not all directed at you personally by the way.

In fact, use it for free to see if you will use it at all...you don't need to buy anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
* The simple act of standing up from the computer, and walking around the room while I adjust eq gives me a PROFOUNDLY different perspective...it's AMAZING how my thought process when eq'ing/setting levels seems to become much more sensible...
Just not practical.

Sorry...just had to do that. As exaggerated as this sounds, I appreciate your enthusiasm, and I also appreciate that you use your name (or reasonable facsimile) and some sort of picture of yourself. Otherwise, I might think you really do work for a developer!

Which brings me to another point: all of this is generally kind of creepy. I mean, the sudden influx of OSC enthusiasts that came out of the woodwork is ...well...a little creepy to me. Where were you and what were you doing before? Did you not know that OSC or touch screens existed? This is why it seems like a weird marketing push to me, and in today's social networking world it is getting more difficult to discern when somebody is just a forum member, or someone from company XYZ is trying to get you to drink their kool-aid (so to speak).

However, it certainly is cool to control anything remotely, so have fun!
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:57 PM   #105
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If Chip McDonald is a shill for some developer, he is playing the longest con game in the history of the internet. It would be so impressive that I almost wish it were true.
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:18 PM   #106
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If Chip McDonald is a shill for some developer, he is playing the longest con game in the history of the internet. It would be so impressive that I almost wish it were true.
I wasn't implying Chip was a shill at all...just the opposite in fact. I was implying that people who post with a fictitious name and fake picture...oh...never mind Mr. Puppet!
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:25 PM   #107
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Busted! I am a paid lobbyist for the Sock Manufacturers' Association.
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:36 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by pixeltarian View Post

practical uses?

how making your own custom control surface so you can sit behind a drumset and track every drum part without ever having to get up and run to the computer?
And this will really come into its own once we have full catheter support.
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Old 03-15-2012, 02:02 PM   #109
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I must be doing something wrong - no paychecks rolling in from the on(e)line company. That socks sucks . Maybe I should drop the ball?
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Old 03-15-2012, 04:24 PM   #110
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One last question... what is the string of four bytes that makes up a 32 bit big endian, 2's-complement -1?

I'm putting in 0xFFFFFFFF, but Reaper is telling me it is -1010842689.

Knowing this would prevent me having to learn to convert and manipulate arrays of bytes at the moment... it's the only thing stopping me from playing around!!

edit: and even though that number is clearly below DEVICE_ROTARY_CENTER, it's doing the same as a 1 value.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:19 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_caveman View Post
One last question... what is the string of four bytes that makes up a 32 bit big endian, 2's-complement -1?

I'm putting in 0xFFFFFFFF, but Reaper is telling me it is -1010842689.

Knowing this would prevent me having to learn to convert and manipulate arrays of bytes at the moment... it's the only thing stopping me from playing around!!

edit: and even though that number is clearly below DEVICE_ROTARY_CENTER, it's doing the same as a 1 value.
Ahoy captain, I'm sorry that I don't have an answer to that off the top of my head, but did you realize that this thread was discussing whether there is any practical usage for OSC at all, not for questions about practical usage? (I do like to see it derail in this way though! ) There's even a new subforum for MIDI, OSC, and all that. Although I'm not sure we're officially allowed to discuss REAPER's OSC support outside of this pre-release subforum yet...
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:36 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Banned View Post
Ahoy captain, I'm sorry that I don't have an answer to that off the top of my head, but did you realize that this thread was discussing whether there is any practical usage for OSC at all, not for questions about practical usage? (I do like to see it derail in this way though! ) There's even a new subforum for MIDI, OSC, and all that. Although I'm not sure we're officially allowed to discuss REAPER's OSC support outside of this pre-release subforum yet...
Yeah, I thought I'd sneak in a couple of questions into this thread rather than being all dramatic and starting another one. On topic, one practical usage of OSC is that any idiot can write a control app that almost works.
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:22 PM   #113
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I it's offense for this in-your-face prognostication. It's not like people didn't know what OSC was...
*I* didn't know what it was until last week. I would also boldly suggest "most DAW users are blithely unaware of it". Which, IMO, makes complete sense because effectively it hasn't mattered from my POV.

*Now* it matters because of the ubiquity of smart phones.

Quote:
Native Instruments has been using it for over 10 years.
10 years ago people didn't have wifi and smart phones with touch screens.

Quote:
I just don't think people want it (or see the need for it)
I think if people see how easy it is to setup and use, they'll have to have it simply because it doesn't make sense to not have it. Why do you not want the ability to be able to remotely control your DAW?


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You've posted about this price several times now...
Yes, because it's exciting and invigorating to me. Do you know what a Lemur is? Probably less than 2 years ago you could have sort of rigged up something like this, BUT NOT FOR $5.


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are you working for a developer or something?
Yes, surprise! This thread has been part of a new episode of _Undercover Boss_! I'm secretly Chaz B. Hakkamacher, president of Oldman Socks, the world's largest wool sock distributor.

(this is the part where I cry about being knocked off my bike as a kid, just like you).


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This is not all directed at you personally by the way.
"Ok".

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In fact, use it for free to see if you will use it at all...you don't need to buy anything.
I don't have an Android phone, sorry.


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appreciate your enthusiasm, and I also appreciate that you use your name (or reasonable facsimile)
Well, if I announced everywhere I was THE Chaz B. Hakkamacher, I'd be giving out sock samples everywhere!


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and some sort of picture of yourself.
It is sort of blurry. I don't even play guitar!

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Otherwise, I might think you really do work for a developer!
At some point I hope we can expand our operations in such a way that I can control all of our global stitching operations from my phone. Ultimately, the sheep shearing will be automated using OSC as well.


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Which brings me to another point: all of this is generally kind of creepy.
That's what happens if you go to Hoogy Boogy land.


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I mean, the sudden influx of OSC enthusiasts that came out of the woodwork is ...well...a little creepy to me.
Admittedly, it was a bit difficult to get my post count up so high so as to make it look like I'm a regular here, but I have minions to do that for me. Minions SOON TO BE REPLACED BY OSC!!!!!! HAHAHHAAHAHAHA!


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Where were you and what were you doing before?
Soap. I made boutique soap.

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Did you not know that OSC or touch screens existed?
OSC for me has meant "what most analog synths label an oscillator". Touch screens - why, no, never, although I now understand that one day in the future they'll be used to replace checkout clerks in supermarkets, my friend G.W. was talkin' bout that the other day.


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This is why it seems like a weird marketing push to me,
You ain't seen nothing yet! Just wait until you partake of the scent that is Kim Kardashian's OSC - a fragrance that can be anything you want it to be, practical yet somehow inspiring.

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and in today's social networking world it is getting more difficult
My minions have not been adequate with the SEO and Fb placement. There will be layoffs.

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to discern when somebody is just a forum member, or someone from company XYZ is trying to get you to drink their kool-aid (so to speak).
Yeah, it's pretty hard when there's maybe... oh... 4 people on the internet who are dumb enough to use their real name online. My minions have done really well with the SEO regarding setting up this fictitious identity of a guy that gives guitar lessons in Augusta Georgia. Heck, they somehow managed to make it look like I've been online as this "Chip" guy since before AOL was online!

- Chaz
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:30 PM   #114
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If Chip McDonald is a shill for some developer, he is playing the longest con game in the history of the internet. It would be so impressive that I almost wish it were true.
Like if I were really kibo back from the Dawn of the Internet? That would be crescent fresh. Sorry to disappoint.
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:57 PM   #115
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Just not practical.
I read Chip's post as being exactly what he did find practical (and why):
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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
Two: the practicality of it is both simple and surprisingly more drastic than I thought it would be - at least for me. [...]
And that made a lot of sense to me. It is arguably highly dependent on the particular context and workflow, and even then it may simply be a very subjective question. I enjoy hearing of the experiences of fellow REAPER users, and the reasons why they came to their opinions. So I really appreciate people like Chip sharing their personal experience with fellow REAPER users, and I similarly like to hear John telling us why he doesn't think something is practical. I can agree with Chip when he wonders why apparently some people don't see any practical use for OSC, I can agree with John when he wonders why people focus so much on touch screens or points out that it is easy to overestimate their usefulness.

I also believe much more REAPER users can benefit from OSC support much more than they may think. Even if they don't much like to use touch screens / tablets / smartphones, some particular app or whatever.
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*I* didn't know what it was until last week. *Now* it matters because of the ubiquity of smart phones.
10 years ago people didn't have wifi and smart phones with touch screens.
5 years ago they did. Okay, 4 and a half. Ubiquitous, perhaps not - but people were massively getting them (remember the queues at the Apple Stores?).

We could even rig something like this up "for free plus the price of an iPhone" almost since day one (e.g. akaRemote and Mrmr were available for free long before the AppStore was opened). But with REAPER things were not easy and much more primitive (e.g. it required conversion to MIDI, at the loss of resolution, no feedback), so you had to be more of a hacker type than the average user - and perhaps you still need to be to some extent. However, since the AppStore and the iPad came along, such things have become much more commercially viable to develop, so that we see (imho) more polished, user friendly apps like TouchOSC and Lemur appear as well.

But imho it mainly matters here and now because OSC support is being implemented in REAPER here and now. And it's absolutely awesome to hear that fellow REAPER users who had not even heard of OSC last week are already using it with REAPER (if I weren't a bit of a hacker it would have taken me over 5 years ). While some other veterans still seem to think it could take a $20K device to do some simple things they would find of great practical use, we still haven't heard enough of such stories imho (it probably doesn't matter much if they can save $19.995 or $20K, does it?) So keep the hard sell coming please!

[disclaimer: I own the controlling majority of Oldman Socks stock]
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:49 AM   #116
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Sorry if this is coming from left field, but Banned and I have had a brief exchange in privated and he once again directed me to a video which supposedly shows OSC working with a BCr2000 controlling a bunch of stuff in reaper.

So my question is: Since there is no evidence that this is indeed OSC at work and as far as I am aware there isn't anything being done with the BCR that isn't already possible with MIDI, how is this an OSC real world app that we NEED?

granted I can see where this is probably only fledgeling hops compared to the potential of OSC, but in terms of end-user applications, it doesnt appear to add anything to the pot, which brings me back to my original point that at this stage in OSC Reaper development it is less likely to sidetrack the mainstream forum if OSC stays in the pre-release forum rather than being promote somewhat prematurely (In my opinion) into the mainstream of Reaper.

Also rather glad that it isn't just me that thinks the idea that "most" people have some sort of touchpad device is optimistic.

I suppose if you are middle or upper class and either in a good job or still living with mum and dad that could be right, but otherwise I doubt it - certainly not so in the UK.

P.S. I got a Kindle for Xmas and love it & IF I could get a tablet for £60 - the equivalent of £100 at todays rate of exchange - I would. Apart from you can't see the damn things in daylight outdoors. Even have difficulty with that on my prehistoric phone...(grin)

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Old 03-16-2012, 03:17 AM   #117
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I suppose if you are middle or upper class and either in a good job or still living with mum and dad that could be right, but otherwise I doubt it - certainly not so in the UK.
So may I ask which part of the UK do you live in?
I live in the shitty end of Newcastle and I have all of my life. I travel through even shittier ends of the City on my way to work. The amount of people who have Satellite TV dishes in run down council estates is staggering, as is the amount of people with very high end smart phones getting on the bus.

I do believe you should open you're eyes when you are out and about, as what you say is certainly not what I see when I'm around in the UK.
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Old 03-16-2012, 03:24 AM   #118
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So may I ask which part of the UK do you live in?
I live in the shitty end of Newcastle and I have all of my life. I travel through even shittier ends of the City on my way to work. The amount of people who have Satellite TV dishes in run down council estates is staggering, as is the amount of people with very high end smart phones getting on the bus.

I do believe you should open you're eyes when you are out and about, as what you say is certainly not what I see when I'm around in the UK.
(grin) forgot to add that round here most of the people on benefit see themselves as middle class - recent interview on TV "Well I dont work so I am middle class, enni?"

Sorry, but that really IS a major factor.
Our neighbour and his wife have never worked in the fifteen years we have lived here and yet they can still afford to smoke and go to the pub at least a couple of nights a week. Suspect the same is true in your area.
At least it was until 2006 when I stopped touring the North east.

Sorry for getting so off topic, btw. We better stop this or take it to the lounge.....
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Old 03-16-2012, 03:56 AM   #119
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(grin) forgot to add that round here most of the people on benefit see themselves as middle class - recent interview on TV "Well I dont work so I am middle class, enni?"

Sorry, but that really IS a major factor.
Our neighbour and his wife have never worked in the fifteen years we have lived here and yet they can still afford to smoke and go to the pub at least a couple of nights a week. Suspect the same is true in your area.
At least it was until 2006 when I stopped touring the North east.

Sorry for getting so off topic, btw. We better stop this or take it to the lounge.....
You're correct!
It's the Keeping up with the Joneses culture
Sorry for this taking off tangent.
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Old 03-16-2012, 06:51 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
*Now* it matters because of the ubiquity of smart phones.
Exactly my analysis here.

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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
years ago people didn't have wifi and smart phones with touch screens.
Well, actually they had tablets, over 10 years ago now. There were many wireless touch screen devices in the form of tablet PCs with WiFi and capacitive touch screens...I still have two (and several touch screens). Compared to today's technology it is not practical, but usable. That was my point in another post...I tried to integrate these wireless touch screen devices (and wired) for controlling things like Reaktor, and it just doesn't work for me.

This is not a new concept to me, and I was a little surprised at the responses to some of my posts that I "just didn't get it". I have been selling my software for this type of remote control purpose for over 10 years (and controlling things remotely for over 20) and have not seen this type of enthusiasm until OSC. I guess people like the acronym or something.

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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
Why do you not want the ability to be able to remotely control your DAW?
Why indeed? I think it comes down to a type of person that needs to do this, and I also wrote about this in that post I linked to above. I play an instrument and I sing, so I simply put Reaper into record mode and do my thing until I'm done. Then I put on my engineers cap and master the tracks while sitting at my two large screens and multi-core desktop that renders everything in real-time. What would I need remote capability for? I mean personally, for me, as I am sure you have found something useful and fun to do with it.

I am not saying there is no or will never be a practical purpose, and I never have. Neither have I said anything about "hating" OSC or iDevices...it's all good! This is where the fanaticism seems to come in and a select few switch into bashing mode. I actually make software and hardware for remotely controlling stuff...I have been for a long time. I am a big fan of doing so. I just see no practical application of using my iDevice for controlling Reaper or anything in my DAW...that's all. It's just my opinion, and I am trying to be truly objective. I think we need tactile feedback from touch screens before it is really practical.

By the way, the "prognostication" was referring to several posts that announced the demise of the mouse and the desktop PC...that was just weird to me. I don't care what you use, just don't try to shove it down my throat.

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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
Yes, because it's exciting and invigorating to me. Do you know what a Lemur is? Probably less than 2 years ago you could have sort of rigged up something like this,
Actually, Lemur was a video company (editing and software I believe) and they have moved into this area fairly recently. I am going strictly by the "WayBackMachine" and the information on their older websites by the way. They have done some interesting work with midi and coremidi over network, and I can appreciate the investment of time/energy/money they did...I have done quite a bit myself.

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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
Yes, surprise! This thread has been part of a new episode of _Undercover Boss_! I'm secretly Chaz B. Hakkamacher, president of Oldman Socks, the world's largest wool sock distributor.
This is what happens when I hang out at KVR too much.

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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
(this is the part where I cry about being knocked off my bike as a kid, just like you).
Huh?

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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
That's what happens if you go to Hoogy Boogy land.
Huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
Admittedly, it was a bit difficult to get my post count up so high so as to make it look like I'm a regular here, but I have minions to do that for me. Minions SOON TO BE REPLACED BY OSC!!!!!! HAHAHHAAHAHAHA!
Yes, I understand that I am a lunatic conspiracy theorist...I have to time my posts so that the medication is at full effect.

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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
You ain't seen nothing yet! Just wait until you partake of the scent that is Kim Kardashian's OSC - a fragrance that can be anything you want it to be, practical yet somehow inspiring.
Finally, something that is humorous and not personal.

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Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
Yeah, it's pretty hard when there's maybe... oh... 4 people on the internet who are dumb enough to use their real name online.
I personally think it is a bit subversive not to use something that identifies yourself...but that's the freedom of the Internet. I don't see where this hostility is coming from, and I kept things light enough (and impersonal) in my post, where you (or anyone) should not be offended...unless I have totally misunderstood your point. My apologies if I have misinterpreted your meaning, but this is where a small element of (seeming) fanaticism comes peeking out and is generally creepy to me. It seems like you are lashing out at me about something anyway, no?

This thread is about the discussion of the practical use of OSC, correct? I have been giving my insight in as intelligible and humorous and non-visceral a fashion as I know how. I hope you haven't taken anything I said too seriously otherwise I might think you jump to conclusions quicker than I do.

In terms of remote control, it's been my life for over 20 years. I have been designing touch screen interfaces and writing remote control software for many years, so I am a big fan too. In terms of innovation, I thought the Alesis AirSynth was a very cool idea, but it too lacked tactile sensation. Using touch screens is not new, and while multi-touch may be, it just adds another dimension to the same old problem: lack of tactile sensation. The point about using your existing touch screen device (or anything for that matter) is a fine point, and I have always agreed...as long as it is practical.

And just to clarify so there is no future confusion, I meant nothing personal in my comments towards you or anyone. They are general comments, observations, and personal opinions...nothing more. The conspiracy theory stuff is all real though!

Last edited by johnrule; 03-16-2012 at 09:49 AM.
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