Old 09-04-2008, 03:22 AM   #1
Anomaly
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Default Strange behavior with MIDI CC and midi items

There is something strange with Midi CC and items that annoys me a lot. I wonder if this is intentional behavior?

Lets say I have 2 midi items. In the first item I have a midi CC message (like CC11 expression) set to 127. I want that all later midi items in that track use that value. However, the CC resets to 0 in the end of the first item, and the data is not inherited to the later items.



In the second image there are the same midi items glued together. You can see that there is a CC event that I didn't want to be there.



Why does it have to be this way? It's really causing tons of extra work when you have to glue all items together and then remove the unwanted CC-->0 messages from all relevant midi channels.

Cheers,
Midi police at your service..

Last edited by Anomaly; 08-07-2011 at 01:00 AM.
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Old 09-04-2008, 04:09 AM   #2
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Yep, I get problems too

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=24357

and

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=24359

So I've bumped them both.
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Old 09-04-2008, 06:23 AM   #3
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Thanks Darkstar,

It's good this is already noticed, although I must say I'm a wee bit worried about the lack of attention the midi side is receiving. But speaking about this specific issue, I think too it's odd behavior and should be considered as a bug.
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Old 09-08-2008, 07:20 AM   #4
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And here I thought it was just me. This is really driving me nuts - volume dropping to zero at the end of each midi clip. I am "working around" it by adding a CC7 = x at the start of each clip, but it would be truly swell for this to go away.

The odd thing is that it appears to only happen when a controller message originally present. In other words, if you just add a bunch of midi clips to a track and don't ever touch CC7, there is no problem. But if you change CC7 at some point, from there on the issue arises.
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Old 09-08-2008, 07:28 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anomaly View Post
However, the CC resets to 0 in the end of the first item, and the data is not inherited to the later items.
Yes, this needs to be fixed ASAP. Such "resets" have to be added/drawn manually by the user. Current behaviour isn't good.


FIXED (5.1)

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Old 09-09-2008, 07:47 AM   #6
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If I am interpreting the notes correctly, it appears this has been fixed in the latest 2.47 alpha. Haven't had a chance to test it though.
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Old 09-09-2008, 07:56 AM   #7
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No, it's not fixed in 2.47alpha5.

FIXED (5.1)

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Old 09-09-2008, 01:44 PM   #8
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I've come across this behaviour (the rotary speed of B4 organ kept resetting to slow), but it didn't occur to me that it actually was a bug; I thought it just worked that way.

Like you said, it's easily fixed by manually adding extra control changes, but that sure is rather inconvenient. If this could be fixed: yes, please.
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Old 09-09-2008, 02:01 PM   #9
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hmm so what CCs should be reset at clip boundaries? Or should any at all? Pitch obviously should... but nothing else?
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Old 09-09-2008, 06:06 PM   #10
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My feeling is that none at all should be sent automatically at clip boundary.

Reset messages should only be sent on stop. I am going to check, what trusty old Logic 5 does, but I am pretty sure the resetting was fully up to the user for the time playback was running... including pitch. Though I have to add Logic did a seek for controllers, Program changes and note ons at each start mid project (optionally), which might be of relevance here.

I will report back tomorrow. I propose other cubenlitudonar users do the same, so we can collect and benefit from the mileage of experience.

Btw, while at it, the messages sent at timeline loop to a midi clock enabled port are a bit odd, too. Reaper sends a stop message, followed by a midi SPP and a continue message at each loop return. It should only be a SPP message, as the stop/continue can probably throw some midi devices out of sync. Please see http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...light=midi+spp for this topic.
Again, my only experience in this field is Logic, but I think it's not a bad reference in terms of midi.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
hmm so what CCs should be reset at clip boundaries? Or should any at all? Pitch obviously should... but nothing else?
none (including pitch) should be reset by items.


FIXED (5.1)

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Old 09-09-2008, 10:11 PM   #12
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agreed, agreed, agreed. no reset unless specified (could be a nice modifier)
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Old 09-10-2008, 01:38 AM   #13
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I agree with Dstruct, The item shouldn't change any value without user input.

I think there should be total reset on play/stop.

cheers
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Old 09-10-2008, 01:39 AM   #14
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I also think nothing should be reset, not even pitch bend. Most (all) MIDI controllers have a pitch bend wheel which will fysically reset itself while recording, so (most of the time) there will no need to reset it again.
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Old 09-10-2008, 02:25 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anomaly View Post
I agree with Dstruct, The item shouldn't change any value without user input.

I think there should be total reset on play/stop.
But please no "all-notes-off" on play/recording/stop, see http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=25325
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Old 09-10-2008, 04:31 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
But please no "all-notes-off" on play/recording/stop, see http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=25325
ok, I see.. it's fine as long as there is an option or two
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Old 09-13-2008, 04:28 AM   #17
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Quote:
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none (including pitch) should be reset by items.
bump. 2.47alpha7 still resets pitch on item end


FIXED (5.1)

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Old 09-17-2008, 03:28 AM   #18
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bump. still the same in 2.5rc1


FIXED (5.1)

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Old 09-24-2008, 07:36 PM   #19
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Maybe this illustrates, how annoying resetting of MIDI-controllers can be:




This is what happens:

If I pause, all controllers are reset and I can't play in pause-mode.
If I stop, the controllers are not reset, but the position cursor gets back to where I started playback.

If I pause at a position outside the item with the controller-data and then start playback again, controllers stay in their reset position.

And what do I hear? Not'n!

This, I must say, dear ladies and gentlemen, I don't like at all!!

The only workaround I found so far is really a kludge:

Right after the controller-data (but before the end of the item) I mute the track (using an envelope), so no controller-data is sent to my VST.

Ah, I forgot: Just to avoid confusion - the item in the pic, allthough it is called "10-Örgel-recorded", is placed on track 11. The MIDI-output is routed to track 10, which holds the VST. (Just in case you thought, if I mute the track, I don't hear anything at all).

-Data
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Old 09-25-2008, 12:40 AM   #20
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Is it really fixed in 2.5 final? I still encountered some strange resetting problems with expression (cc11).
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Old 09-25-2008, 05:21 AM   #21
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Quote:
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Is it really fixed in 2.5 final? I still encountered some strange resetting problems with expression (cc11).
No Anomaly, it isn't.

The animation in the post prior to yours was done with 2.5.

-Data
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Old 10-05-2008, 07:26 AM   #22
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What would be nice is a midi chase option (as defined below). That way where ever you start playback the software chases back to the last settings for events and sends to them. Play back then at any point will be as if you had started playback from the beginning.

What is MIDI Chase, and how do I enable this feature in Cubase SX?

MIDI Chase keeps track of your MIDI controller messages across the range of your song. This can be confusing, but it's probably easier to show an example of how the chase function works in practice.

Suppose you've got a MIDI track that plays piano for the first 10 measures of the song and switches over to Hammond organ for the next 10 measures of the song. If you played the song back in the sequencer and stopped in the measures of Hammond organ and then dragged the song cursor back into the first 10 measures, the part that was supposed to be piano would now be played with the Hammond organ without MIDI Chase.

The MIDI Chase feature keeps track of program changes no matter where you are in the song. It can also keep track of other MIDI events. You can tell Cubase SX which MIDI events to "chase" in the Chase Events settings, which are found in the MIDI dialog box under Preferences. You'll see a menu of events with checkboxes next to them. You can tell Cubase SX to chase a variety of events, including Note, Poly Pressure, Controller, Program, Aftertouch, Pitchbend and Sysex.
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Old 10-05-2008, 07:30 AM   #23
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agreed. perfect in cubase.
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Old 10-05-2008, 04:45 PM   #24
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agree too!

And no MIDI-stuff should be reset on stop, pause or at ends of items!!
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Old 10-20-2008, 12:06 PM   #25
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Quote:
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2.47alpha7 still resets pitch on item end
Still the same in 2.53
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Old 01-07-2009, 05:24 PM   #26
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bump. needs to be "fixed".

FIXED (5.1)

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Old 01-08-2009, 12:51 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
bump. needs to be "fixed".
Just noticed this thread and YES this is a really improtant one to fix, guys.

So far I have been importing all my MIDI stuff from another sequencer, but assuming reaper MIDI ever gets really up to speed, this one point would be a deal breaker for me.
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Old 07-23-2009, 08:31 AM   #28
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Still not fixed in 3.06!


FIXED (5.1)

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Old 07-23-2009, 09:49 AM   #29
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Yup, MIDI chase should be implemented ASAP.

+1
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Old 07-23-2009, 03:13 PM   #30
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Default nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag

nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nagnag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag nag
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Old 07-23-2009, 03:15 PM   #31
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You have to admit it made some pretty patterns.
Now is there any chance of someone fixing this (for midi users) important prob?

Pretty please?
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:59 PM   #32
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Im having this problem with my hardware synths. Im using a miko with Reaper 3.06 and I have a miko slider to control the volume of my motif rack. When I press press play in Reaper, the volume automatically goes back to 127 everytime. Anyone having this problem???
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:34 PM   #33
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Reaps is still behind behind the pack, though im expecting a strong finish.

EDIT: is this even FR'd? i just went thru 10 pages of em and didnt see anything about this.

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Old 07-23-2009, 11:19 PM   #34
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Absolutely, this behavior is horrible...I love Reaper thus far but the lackluster and in this case buggy MIDI implementation (and the response of the devs) will heavily influence whether I purchase a license at the end of my trial period or return to Cubase.

MIDI chase fixes one of the oldest and most annoying problems with MIDI sequencing...automatic MIDI state sanity is a winner.

If this isn't FR'd yet it definitely should be ASAP.
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Old 01-01-2010, 06:40 PM   #35
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Put into bug tracker: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=690


FIXED (5.1)

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Old 02-02-2013, 06:45 AM   #36
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Bump?


4.32 and REAPER still does it wrong.

FIXED (5.1)

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Old 05-26-2013, 04:28 AM   #37
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This has been doing my nut in yesterday and now today.

Is there any progress on this issue at all ?

It makes tweaking patches whilst looping and using a midi controller impossible.

Is this not a ridiculous bug to have in such an advanced version of Reaper ?
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Old 10-29-2015, 08:45 AM   #38
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FIXED (5.1)
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