Old 04-22-2012, 03:26 PM   #41
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I will get back to you both later on today with more. I've been awake FAR too long and REALLY need sleep! For now, here's a coulple of answers...

The pic I posted was of one MotorMate and two MotorMixes all joined (from Carl's website). My setup is actually one MotorMate (the one with the jog dial and transport controls) and one MotorMix and they have individual midi connectors so can be used individually.
Here's a really old video of my previous studio setup showing my MotorMate/MotorMix combo working with ProTools..... http://youtu.be/u11WSGrm19c
I can't remember if I tried running just one previously but I can certainly give that a go.

At this stage, none of the scribble strip displays work correctly and the timecode display shows nothing. I don't think the transport controls worked either from memory but I haven't had them plugged in for ages and my memory might be failing me somewhat here. As I mentioned earlier, they are sitting in a box in my storeroom doing nothing at the moment.
After I've caught up on some sleep, I'll go across and dig them out of the box and try some experiments with the stuff you've posted here.

I'll get back to you on my experience with midi. I have used Midi ox before but am certainly no expert. I am running Win7 64 bit on my studio rig with the latest REAPER 32 bit.

OK... time for zzzzzzzzz!!!
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:40 PM   #42
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I will get back to you both later on today with more. I've been awake FAR too long and REALLY need sleep! For now, here's a coulple of answers... [...]
At this stage, none of the scribble strip displays work correctly and the timecode display shows nothing. I don't think the transport controls worked either from memory but I haven't had them plugged in for ages and my memory might be failing me somewhat here. As I mentioned earlier, they are sitting in a box in my storeroom doing nothing at the moment.
After I've caught up on some sleep, I'll go across and dig them out of the box and try some experiments with the stuff you've posted here.
[...]
OK... time for zzzzzzzzz!!!
I'm pretty sure we'll get you sorted out with those Danni. For now, sweet dreams! (of a mixer working exactly the way you want )
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Old 04-22-2012, 04:13 PM   #43
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I'm pretty sure we'll get you sorted out with those Danni. For now, sweet dreams! (of a mixer working exactly the way you want )
holy cow banned ur gettin downright lovable^^
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Old 04-22-2012, 04:23 PM   #44
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Way to go you guys!

Cool thread. Check out the specs of my friends motormix: Found on the side of the road with the TINY LCD SCREEN NOT WORKING, but everything else 100%. (she freakin found a motormix!!)

I have just used it as a one-way MIDI controller, writing the faders to envelopes, to do that I had to filter the motormix MIDI before it got to REAPER using MIDIOX.

The possibility of using it as a 2-way control surface seemed a lost cause, but then if her model is the exact same as dannis then we should be able to use the same .dll.
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Old 04-22-2012, 04:26 PM   #45
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That is easily done, starting from the example with the track names. But you will need to think of how you want to navigate plugins and their parameter names/values across many 'pages', since you have just a tiny amount of characters that you can display. Seriously, *4* characters for a parameter name or value isn't gonna cut it. It seems designed more for stuff like SND1 <--> SND8, RCV1 <---> RCV8, FX1 <-->FX8, PAR1 <--> PAR8 for changing function names, not much more. So that leaves you with even *less* than 8 parameters that you can display simultaneously, if you'd want more extensive info (i.e. display only last touched plugin name + slot number + parameter number + name + value). That's your *UI design* problem (not so much a technical one, imho). You'll need to answer questions like what buttons are still available? What layout makes most sense? Etc.
Hi,
Yep ur mostly right..although I could swear it was 5 characters.but i think it went like,,,top row..selected plug in long parameter name...bottom row.... available parameters pg 1..underneath the display are 4 switches and 4 v pots. If u hit or trn the swtch/pot i selects that parameter.This is from a long memory and i may have to refresh. All good SYSTEM design points by u. Danke!

I want to say also that i will try ur last upload and get back. I am also looking into turning the mackie hui protocol into full mcu protocol. Dont laugh^^Isnt that what u use out of ur bcf? Huh? huh? And then use either Geof Washingtons Csurf..or klinkes..hmm.... Anyway as allways..Danke und moin^^ sry if thers a thing between the dutch and germans.

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Old 04-22-2012, 04:29 PM   #46
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Way to go you guys!

Cool thread. Check out the specs of my friends motormix: Found on the side of the road with the TINY LCD SCREEN NOT WORKING, but everything else 100%. (she freakin found a motormix!!)

I have just used it as a one-way MIDI controller, writing the faders to envelopes, to do that I had to filter the motormix MIDI before it got to REAPER using MIDIOX.

The possibility of using it as a 2-way control surface seemed a lost cause, but then if her model is the exact same as dannis then we should be able to use the same .dll.
That my friend would be correct!! She found a motormix on the side of the road? Man thers gotta be a movie in that! I mean from the motormix's perspective. like War horse.Ha


Build and they will come..uuuuummmmmmm

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Old 04-22-2012, 04:56 PM   #47
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[...] I want to say also that i will try ur last upload and get back. I am also looking into turning the mackie hui protocol into full mcu protocol. Dont laugh^^Isnt that what u use out of ur bcf? Huh? huh? And then use either Geof Washingtons Csurf..or klinkes..hmm....
Actually, no, I don't use any of that (not yet, at least). OSC and MIDI, that's all I use. No MCU, no HUI, no Csurf plugins of any kind.

I have installed some of those only today (and Padre's automap as well, which finally became available for OS X) to have a look at what they do exactly, but still haven't gotten around to playing with or studying them. And I'm only really looking at all of those protocols because I don't yet see any benefit of using them compared to rolling my own OSC/MIDI setup, but am interested to find out if I'm wrong. Perhaps I can use some of it for making a setup that is less specific to REAPER's OSC support. Although... are there any interesting products out there that *still* don't support OSC, yet do support the proprietary stuff?

Hope you get it working.
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Anyway as allways..Danke und moin^^ sry if thers a thing between the dutch and germans.
Hehe, there's been a thing or two between the Dutch and Germans besides epic soccer championship finals and lots of great techno music.

Here we say "alsjeblieft" and "dankjewel." And "geen dank, graag gedaan."
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Old 04-22-2012, 05:02 PM   #48
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[...] The possibility of using it as a 2-way control surface seemed a lost cause, but then if her model is the exact same as dannis then we should be able to use the same .dll.
Perhaps give that MotorMix Pure data patch I posted (#29 above) a try. If that works, it seems only a bunch of arbitrary OSC <--> SysEx patching to get full 2-way support.

Great story, btw.
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Old 04-22-2012, 05:18 PM   #49
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That my friend would be correct!! She found a motormix on the side of the road? Man thers gotta be a movie in that! I mean from the motormix's perspective. like War horse.Ha


Build and they will come..uuuuummmmmmm

guido
Too right! they don't make 'em like that anymore.
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Old 04-22-2012, 05:24 PM   #50
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Perhaps give that MotorMix Pure data patch I posted (#29 above) a try. If that works, it seems only a bunch of arbitrary OSC <--> SysEx patching to get full 2-way support.

Great story, btw.
thx, just got the pd library and your patch. may never get back to you, as I'm leaving Melb soon. however I will request an extended loan on the motormix and when I'm set up again I'll give it a go (to do list(s))
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Old 04-23-2012, 07:20 AM   #51
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Actually, no, I don't use any of that (not yet, at least). OSC and MIDI, that's all I use. No MCU, no HUI, no Csurf plugins of any kind.

I have installed some of those only today (and Padre's automap as well, which finally became available for OS X) to have a look at what they do exactly, but still haven't gotten around to playing with or studying them. And I'm only really looking at all of those protocols because I don't yet see any benefit of using them compared to rolling my own OSC/MIDI setup, but am interested to find out if I'm wrong. Perhaps I can use some of it for making a setup that is less specific to REAPER's OSC support. Although... are there any interesting products out there that *still* don't support OSC, yet do support the proprietary stuff?

Hope you get it working.

Hehe, there's been a thing or two between the Dutch and Germans besides epic soccer championship finals and lots of great techno music.

Here we say "alsjeblieft" and "dankjewel." And "geen dank, graag gedaan."
alsjeblieft//

Im takin a guess on what that means^^Man this csurf thing is hard for me. But im learnin, Banned do u have yr bcf in mcu mode or standard mode? I mean ...both the HUI and MCU protocol are based entirely on midi.Its just a clever way of organizing the bidirectional communication. My thought s on trying to use the existing csurfs is..there is a WHOLE lotta work already done on the feedback from Reaper side.
If it were just about sending to Reaper....I am golden right now. thanks to bome allowing me to "readjust" the dbl midi messages thing that my contrller..HUI standard..puts out when u press a switch.

btw In the Reaper SDK is a folder called csurfs that are documented.Except the babyhui one which is the csurf i use for my Zone #1..the faders and pans on my board.

Iwas thinking about goin to "emulate" a Novation controller..again based on the HUI midi standard.....and try and use the Padre PC csurf..thanks Padre!!....but i had heard that novation had used like a lower reolution on the faders..i could be wrong about that.

So that brought me to the mcu midi standard. It seems that between klinkes and Geoff Washingtons Csurfs, that guys using the mcu protocl with Reaper can get everything u would need as far as feedback goes.

The deeper i get into this,the more respect i have for Cockos for making the Csurfs that all these Csurfs are based on. And I can see ,if u can get to the right Reaper API commands..wow!!

I am sorry that this stuff has takin up so much"bandwidth". Me misinterpreting the motormix issue. let me clarify..i have a feelin that dannis issue was a hook up one.midiwise. One motormix SHOULD work with the Reaper baby hui csurf...the babyhui was a 8 fader HUI speakin lil contoller wirh no display.

http://www.mackie.com/products/babyhui/

And as far as interesting products..well that depends. I know theres a whole bunch of midi controllers out there that were designed to control daws. Not expensive ones.^^

But theres also many mixing consoles and midi add on control packages for the ones that dont support it nativly that were designed to work with Pro Tools. Sorry didnt mean to swear^^. And when u talk midi control of PT..your talking the HUI midi standard. puh!

dankjewel banned
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Old 04-23-2012, 07:35 AM   #52
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I will get back to you both later on today with more. I've been awake FAR too long and REALLY need sleep! For now, here's a coulple of answers...

The pic I posted was of one MotorMate and two MotorMixes all joined (from Carl's website). My setup is actually one MotorMate (the one with the jog dial and transport controls) and one MotorMix and they have individual midi connectors so can be used individually.
Here's a really old video of my previous studio setup showing my MotorMate/MotorMix combo working with ProTools..... http://youtu.be/u11WSGrm19c
I can't remember if I tried running just one previously but I can certainly give that a go.

At this stage, none of the scribble strip displays work correctly and the timecode display shows nothing. I don't think the transport controls worked either from memory but I haven't had them plugged in for ages and my memory might be failing me somewhat here. As I mentioned earlier, they are sitting in a box in my storeroom doing nothing at the moment.
After I've caught up on some sleep, I'll go across and dig them out of the box and try some experiments with the stuff you've posted here.

I'll get back to you on my experience with midi. I have used Midi ox before but am certainly no expert. I am running Win7 64 bit on my studio rig with the latest REAPER 32 bit.

OK... time for zzzzzzzzz!!!
Hi,

Try one CMMM. The reaper Casurf support is of a baby hui..no display.
http://www.mackie.com/products/babyhui/
All faders bidirectionally and: select..solo..mute..pan....bank..most transport..and track names..I dont know how Justin figured that one out...thats it. But it was all reverse engineered. Thank u cockos.
Now i have a program that allows me to use Reapers Action learn system with the switches. You couldnt do that b4 because the dbl midi messages that the board puts out "confuses" the learn system.
That leaves the display..and thats where i am today.Hey..Im a poet and dont know it..groan.
After u get the 1 working "normaly",hit me up and we'll see if we can get three.

cya

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Old 04-23-2012, 08:22 AM   #53
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Man u guys must hate me by now!^^

Ok banned,i go deep.^^ Are u familiar with bomes? Dj's use it to make controllers talk! It is waaaaaaay deep when it comes to midi.

And have u ever heard of Soundiver? It was a program by emagic..now apple...that specialized in Sys EX. I used to write FULL editor libraians for midi gear.Graphic objects, envelopes..full bidirectional stuff. As a matter of fact, all my midi gear's front panels and knobs and such have hardly ever been touched! ..i did one for the Roland jd990 synth..and a few for some drum brains that were not natively supported by sound diver.
It had a mode where u could "write" ur own "adaptations".
Sadly,apple dropped support of this unique and great product ,and thats one of the reasons i bailed on logic. Dude it was a SYSTEM. It communicated internaly with logic so that if u changed the contents of ur synths Ram bank in Soundiver, it was automaticly updated in logic..all correct patch names and stuff! AND it had Controller Sets..u could assign cc's to control sys ex "macros" for realtime use.. uuuuu ..u like!

i could right now call up a studio snapshot of the data in ALL my midi gear from a particualar VERSION of a song from 1998!

I bring this up because ..well...i miss it and i thought u would understand!
Plz let me know if u are familiar with bomes.

My dream would be to come up with a way that would satisfy my needs AND layout a method where any Reaper user with a box that sends and recieves midi data could "tap in" to whatever csurf or whatever that i end up using.
I could translate any midi data that they would send/recieve with bomes pro..author version..and if it was too time consuming..some exotic midi format/handshaking involved..then thy could buy the author version themselves. No c++++ or all that.

Like this gent....

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Thanks for the answer Klinke.
Geoff said me that C4 is supported but "only" in conjunction of a MCU and not "standalone".Can you or someone suggest me other ways to use a C4 with Reaper other than buying a MCU?It would be very much appreciated and I would even pay for a developer that can make this happen,sure less than a MCU

Guido

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Old 04-23-2012, 08:41 AM   #54
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alsjeblieft//

Im takin a guess on what that means^^Man this csurf thing is hard for me. But im learnin, Banned do u have yr bcf in mcu mode or standard mode? I mean ...both the HUI and MCU protocol are based entirely on midi.Its just a clever way of organizing the bidirectional communication. My thought s on trying to use the existing csurfs is..there is a WHOLE lotta work already done on the feedback from Reaper side.
If it were just about sending to Reaper....I am golden right now. thanks to bome allowing me to "readjust" the dbl midi messages thing that my contrller..HUI standard..puts out when u press a switch.

btw In the Reaper SDK is a folder called csurfs that are documented.Except the babyhui one which is the csurf i use for my Zone #1..the faders and pans on my board.

Iwas thinking about goin to "emulate" a Novation controller..again based on the HUI midi standard.....and try and use the Padre PC csurf..thanks Padre!!....but i had heard that novation had used like a lower reolution on the faders..i could be wrong about that.

So that brought me to the mcu midi standard. It seems that between klinkes and Geoff Washingtons Csurfs, that guys using the mcu protocl with Reaper can get everything u would need as far as feedback goes.

The deeper i get into this,the more respect i have for Cockos for making the Csurfs that all these Csurfs are based on. And I can see ,if u can get to the right Reaper API commands..wow!!

I am sorry that this stuff has takin up so much"bandwidth". Me misinterpreting the motormix issue. let me clarify..i have a feelin that dannis issue was a hook up one.midiwise. One motormix SHOULD work with the Reaper baby hui csurf...the babyhui was a 8 fader HUI speakin lil contoller wirh no display.

http://www.mackie.com/products/babyhui/

And as far as interesting products..well that depends. I know theres a whole bunch of midi controllers out there that were designed to control daws. Not expensive ones.^^

But theres also many mixing consoles and midi add on control packages for the ones that dont support it nativly that were designed to work with Pro Tools. Sorry didnt mean to swear^^. And when u talk midi control of PT..your talking the HUI midi standard. puh!

dankjewel banned
I'm using a BCR-2000 atm, the one with all the rotary encoders - not the BCF-2000 with the motorized faders. I may get myself one of those as well though - I lost my old Yamaha ProMix01 a while back, which I used *only* for its motorized faders, and they're awesome value for money (I'd have a hard time beating its price with a DIY kit). I'm just a bit worried about its sturdiness and durability, as I'm likely to heavily (ab)use faders, much more than rotary encoders (think of the way a hip-hop DJ (ab)uses a crossfader, for example - I'd even use my feet to kick them up from a distance. )

Perhaps I'm doing some duplicative work by not using existing (support / tools for) HUI, MCU and such protocols. I don't really care much about that, as none of them completely fulfill my needs (or so it still seems, anyway). Since I'm *not* digging into REAPER's API or user plugins/extensions, but only use its native out-of-the-box features, I'm probably avoiding some duplicative work there as well.

Anyway, to to cover the complete feature set I want to use, I'd still have to be running multiple convertors communicating via MIDI to/from the controller, which does not sound like an attractive idea at all. The best possible use I currently see for using such protocols myself is implementing (parts of) them in my conversion patch in a way that does *not* depend on REAPER. Once I'm past the design/prototyping/testing stages, I may well try a similar implementation, i.e. a REAPER user plugin. I don't really know yet.

Moreover, I can't open up any of those existing convertors to look at what they do internally (since it's compiled code), and can't change anything I want, all without skipping a beat. (Compare Jesusonic effects: a VST version of the exact same algo as some JS plugin may be much more *efficient*, CPU-wise, but that does not necessarily mean it's *better* to use than a real-time modifiable JS version, especially for tweaking and hacking). Since control only puts relatively low requirements on resources (compared to transmitting/processing audio), giving up so much flexibility to gain only a small bit of overall performance isn't really an issue, not one with a high priority anyway.

BTW, to emulate a Novation controller, wouldn't you use their Automap protocol? I don't see the relation to HUI?
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:07 AM   #55
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Man u guys must hate me by now!^^
No pal, we're still good.
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Ok banned,i go deep.^^ Are u familiar with bomes? Dj's use it to make controllers talk! It is waaaaaaay deep when it comes to midi.
Yeah, it's probably way too shallow for me. I looked at it, and for it's price, it seems a complete rip-off (what does it do that I can't do using Pd for free?) I also don't know any DJs or performers using it. Take a look at junXion for (imho) a much better tool in this category. (I'll admit I'm heavily biased though, as I have strong sympathies for the Amsterdam based STEIM foundation).

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And have u ever heard of Soundiver?
Yeah, I used it, and hated it. So I also wrote my own full editors, such as skeuomorphic virtual PG-300 / PG-800s for the Roland Alpha Juno/MKS-50 and JX-8P synths. Sounds familiar eh?
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Dude it was a SYSTEM.
That was indeed the good part about it, at least conceptually. So I know where you're coming from here, and agree. I need a *system*, too.
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My dream would be to come up with a way that would satisfy my needs AND layout a method where any Reaper user with a box that sends and recieves midi data could "tap in" to whatever csurf or whatever that i end up using.[...]
There already is, and it's called OSC support.

I still think you underestimate the problem of UX. There is no way to simply translate things without making some hard non-technical choices about design/layout, and you need a fair amount of switching and routing logic to properly implement such choices. I think even assuming anyone wants to use those big sliders on some control surface to control volume/gain is a stupid preconception best to be completely avoided. That's exactly what I *hate* about MCU, HUI, you name it. They seem to assume a 'standard' workflow that doesn't come near mine.
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:57 AM   #56
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Hi,

I see.Now i see where u are comin from.I knew i shouldn't go "deep" with u!^^
Man again.... i look at jxion and another wall...mac only. ugghhh..that looked the ticket.again.
I can only help now with testing for u. And hope ur superior intellect can crack this nut,{no sarcasm} and I can use my "old stupid method"{again no sarcasm} of mixing with faders and such when u finish the grand plan.

It is expensive at 59 euros for the author version.Its just that in going thru bomes forums ..the majority of what anybody wanted to do with midi...multi level control modes..dbl button presses...feedback...timers,count how long a button is pressed THEN DO...was relatively easily and successfully accomplished.No compromises. Hard to find that in a lot of forums when u get to the last post.^^.

btw..would u be interested in a mks hw programer? The Roland.I think i have one some where..id give it to u if u want..let me dig it out. I mean to use as a "whatever" controler.

thx banned and much success!

Guido
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:05 AM   #57
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great... another cool development that will never see the light of day on mac.
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:05 AM   #58
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Man again.... i look at jxion and another wall...mac only. ugghhh..that looked the ticket.again.
To be more precise, *OS X* only. Why don't you look into hackint0shing a partition of your computer? That worked great for me when I didn't have a Mac. Or get a Mac (mini?), perhaps. All the native virtual MIDI channels / MIDI over ethernet / etc. stuff makes it a great OS for music related stuff. I mean, if you keep running into the same wall... why not just go around it?
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I can only help now with testing for u. And hope ur superior intellect can crack this nut,{no sarcasm} and I can use my "old stupid method"{again no sarcasm} of mixing with faders and such when u finish the grand plan.
So, you tried that Pd patch and it works ok with your mixer display? Then I suggest you start sketching a 'grand plan' yourself, that lays out exactly you want your mixer to work. We'll get there, step by step!

Btw, I'm not saying any 'old' or 'standard' method or workflow is stupid; I just think it's stupid when manufacturers make such assumptions on *my* behalf. I can definitely see why some would pay a hefty premium to get things working 'right' for such a 'standard' workflow, no setup hassle or customization required. But in my case, because I don't fit such a 'standard' very well, I think I'd only be paying a premium for getting things configured almost completely *wrong*, and harder or impossible to reconfigure according to my preferences. Buying something like that anyway would then surely be stupid on my behalf, no?
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It is expensive at 59 euros for the author version.Its just that in going thru bomes forums ..the majority of what anybody wanted to do with midi...multi level control modes..dbl button presses...feedback...timers,count how long a button is pressed THEN DO...was relatively easily and successfully accomplished.No compromises. Hard to find that in a lot of forums when u get to the last post.^^.
I don't think that's expensive at all, *if* it solves all (or at least most) of your problems. But that's exactly where it's lacking compared to alternatives, imho.
Ok, here's a fun little challenge: I am sitting in the park with only my laptop and 3 year old cousin. He wants to wave his hands in front of my laptop to play the 'air drums'. Can BMT do it? (junXion can, check out these video tracking tutorials!)

(More importantly, OSC, Arduino, joysticks, infrared, ultrasound, WiiRemote, MIDI over ethernet, ... support for many basic building blocks seems to be completely missing).
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btw..would u be interested in a mks hw programer? The Roland.I think i have one some where..id give it to u if u want..let me dig it out. I mean to use as a "whatever" controler.
Definitely! I had a real PG-300 at some point, and I loved it (until it got crushed by a stack of flight cases full of gear - fortunately nobody got hurt). I've never used a real PG-800 though (and I've been severely neglecting my Jupiter for the last couple of years).

Nowadays u-he's Diva pretty takes care of (especially) the Alpha Juno and the Jupiter sound *very* well, btw. Besides using such a controller with the hardware synths, it'd probably also be great to use a with a conversion patch for Diva using its Juno/Jupiter modules.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:33 AM   #59
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What a shame. Now if you'd ship that thing to me as a loaner, I'd have an incentive to make it work with REAPER asap. Too bad you're down-under and it probably weighs a ton, or two.

More seriously: if anyone in a similar situation and a bit closer to the Netherlands, let's talk.
And here I am....

Looking for a method to reactivate my Steinberg Houston (also based on the HUI) actually led me to the Reaper forums a few years ago, where some cool guys also tried to gather all information about Houston's midi specs, Sysex and ASCII. They were pretty successful (I should have them here somewhere), unfortunately they never brought it to a happy end. (but that way I found out about Reaper!)

The Houston is an 8-channel controller with master and transports, also sitting in a box here, and much easier to send than a Motormix, I guess.
I'd really be happy if we could get the Houston to communicate with Reaper, too!
So... if Munich isn't too far away from the Netherlands... I could gladly help you out!
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:22 AM   #60
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And here I am....

Looking for a method to reactivate my Steinberg Houston (also based on the HUI) actually led me to the Reaper forums a few years ago, where some cool guys also tried to gather all information about Houston's midi specs, Sysex and ASCII. They were pretty successful (I should have them here somewhere), unfortunately they never brought it to a happy end. (but that way I found out about Reaper!)

The Houston is an 8-channel controller with master and transports, also sitting in a box here, and much easier to send than a Motormix, I guess.
I'd really be happy if we could get the Houston to communicate with Reaper, too!
So... if Munich isn't too far away from the Netherlands... I could gladly help you out!
Hi strinxx, join the party.

If you can still find those docs somewhere I'll be glad to have a look, and if it is somewhat similar, it may well be quite simple to get it working too. You probably won't need to ship anything, but if it would turn out to be useful for debugging or anything, we could certainly arrange something much more easily than between here and down under.
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:25 AM   #61
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And here I am....

Looking for a method to reactivate my Steinberg Houston (also based on the HUI) actually led me to the Reaper forums a few years ago, where some cool guys also tried to gather all information about Houston's midi specs, Sysex and ASCII. They were pretty successful (I should have them here somewhere), unfortunately they never brought it to a happy end. (but that way I found out about Reaper!)

The Houston is an 8-channel controller with master and transports, also sitting in a box here, and much easier to send than a Motormix, I guess.
I'd really be happy if we could get the Houston to communicate with Reaper, too!
So... if Munich isn't too far away from the Netherlands... I could gladly help you out!
Dam ,

Hi strinxx...

I knew that there were more! Haaachhhaa!Somethin my dad used say. I have a doc^^ somewhere from a guy here in 2007 who did all the reverse of what the houston sends..moment.....wow..chk this out....snowballin..

This is the beginning of a thread about the houston and it weaves a beautiful yet tragic tale where the hui hero gets burned!^^...dont use the first link InThe Pipeline doc...here is his final awesome contribution.
Thanks pipe..i think hes even still here probably has laughed while he watches "another one bites the dust ..ugh ugh"


http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...hlight=houston

Here is the final ITP docs...

http://forum.cockos.com/attachment.p...5&d=1211035668

In this particular HUI tale the hero has cubase and a houston...and midoxs everything..Im not sure if there are discrepancies in any of these presentations of the same info. But im not the brightest bulb in the room.

Further..I hear a collective groan... thee are many many posts from ppl who use some sort of hui spittin/recievin kinda box...and lookin for some REaper love!^^ { I usualy show up in there just before the part where the developer takes the info and the project goes some where else. ^^Meaning to say, if this nut can be cracked..the karma would be subsstantial..

bb

Guido

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Old 04-24-2012, 07:28 AM   #62
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Hi strinxx, join the party.

If you can still find those docs somewhere I'll be glad to have a look, and if it is somewhat similar, it may well be quite simple to get it working too. You probably won't need to ship anything, but if it would turn out to be useful for debugging or anything, we could certainly arrange something much more easily than between here and down under.
Hi,

look up^

ill be lookin for that hw programmer..a keyboard guy left it here back in 1898^^// in a case if i remember.

Guido

ps banned..if u do read the whole tread..he was using an old version of bomes.Easily supports dbl midi messages now^^. I hear ya about junxion..wow..is there ANY alt on windows?

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Old 04-24-2012, 07:43 AM   #63
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Buoahhh!

You guys are on fire!
Hope this is working out!
Would it help to have the engl. manual, too?
To get an idea of Houston's layout 'n stuff...?
Attached Files
File Type: zip Houston Amalgamated.zip (110.0 KB, 98 views)
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:00 AM   #64
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[...] I have a doc^^ somewhere from a guy here in 2007 who did all the reverse of what the houston sends..moment.....wow..chk this out....snowballin.. [...]
Awesome. From his notes:
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I used a battery drill with a rubber wheel on the end to try and rotate the Jog/Shuttle wheel at steady speeds, first slowly and then increasing the speed, clockwise and then counter-clockwise. Made a slight mistake here. The drill was in reverse for a moment, so I stopped and then started again.
LOL, now *that's* how reverse engineering is done! This gentlemen definitely deserves a fix, too.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:01 AM   #65
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Buoahhh!

You guys are on fire!
Hope this is working out!
Would it help to have the engl. manual, too?
To get an idea of Houston's layout 'n stuff...?
I was just looking at Steinberg's FTP site, where have they buried the Houston docs?
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:28 AM   #66
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It's cool to see the Houston talk here, I was planning to post this morning to gauge interest in a proper Houston plugin using inthepipeline's documents as a starting point.

Unfortunately it's not directly compatible with the HUI protocol from what I can tell, with the exception of possibly the faders. So unless there's a way to boot the Houston in a HUI-compatible mode, it needs it's own protocol implemented.

I spent a day over the weekend working on a Houston plugin, and have a reasonable amount of functionality already - faders, vpots, transport, solo/mute/select, etc. I've discovered some things that were absent from inthepipeline's docs as well.

We should collaborate on the Houston rather than have separate projects/codebases/functionality.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:41 AM   #67
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It's cool to see the Houston talk here, I was planning to post this morning to gauge interest in a proper Houston plugin using inthepipeline's documents as a starting point.

Unfortunately it's not directly compatible with the HUI protocol from what I can tell, with the exception of possibly the faders. So unless there's a way to boot the Houston in a HUI-compatible mode, it needs it's own protocol implemented.

I spent a day over the weekend working on a Houston plugin, and have a reasonable amount of functionality already - faders, vpots, transport, solo/mute/select, etc. I've discovered some things that were absent from inthepipeline's docs as well.

We should collaborate on the Houston rather than have separate projects/codebases/functionality.
Hi scarlton, thanks for chiming in!

Perhaps we should even collaborate on a higher level of abstraction, and try to handle all these protocols / devices in a single framework. I figure many (perhaps even most) building blocks for a feature complete implementation of any of them are highly similar, so we may be able to abstract the specifics out and make some common basic platform, with specific modules on top.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:57 AM   #68
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Hi scarlton, thanks for chiming in!

Perhaps we should even collaborate on a higher level of abstraction, and try to handle all these protocols / devices in a single framework. I figure many (perhaps even most) building blocks for a feature complete implementation of any of them are highly similar, so we may be able to abstract the specifics out and make some common basic platform, with specific modules on top.
Now this is way out of my league....!
But - of course - that'd be just awesome!!!

So...back to you guys...

Forgot the Houston Docs (pdf).... they are pretty big, between 3 and 5 MB each. Too big as attachments here. Can I email them to you?
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:59 AM   #69
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It's cool to see the Houston talk here, I was planning to post this morning to gauge interest in a proper Houston plugin using inthepipeline's documents as a starting point.

Unfortunately it's not directly compatible with the HUI protocol from what I can tell, with the exception of possibly the faders. So unless there's a way to boot the Houston in a HUI-compatible mode, it needs it's own protocol implemented.

I spent a day over the weekend working on a Houston plugin, and have a reasonable amount of functionality already - faders, vpots, transport, solo/mute/select, etc. I've discovered some things that were absent from inthepipeline's docs as well.

We should collaborate on the Houston rather than have separate projects/codebases/functionality.
Good to have you here on board!
You're sooo welcome!
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:02 AM   #70
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I was just looking at Steinberg's FTP site, where have they buried the Houston docs?

This should help:
http://www.steinberg.net/en/support/...s/houston.html
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:13 AM   #71
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Now this is way out of my league....!
But - of course - that'd be just awesome!!!

So...back to you guys...

Forgot the Houston Docs (pdf).... they are pretty big, between 3 and 5 MB each. Too big as attachments here. Can I email them to you?
If those are the same ones as are available on that webpage you just posted a link to, then that won't be necessary.

[EDIT:] Lol, Steinberg seems to have paste-failed the link to the Details_Houston.pdf file.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:23 AM   #72
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It's cool to see the Houston talk here, I was planning to post this morning to gauge interest in a proper Houston plugin using inthepipeline's documents as a starting point.

Unfortunately it's not directly compatible with the HUI protocol from what I can tell, with the exception of possibly the faders. So unless there's a way to boot the Houston in a HUI-compatible mode, it needs it's own protocol implemented.

I spent a day over the weekend working on a Houston plugin, and have a reasonable amount of functionality already - faders, vpots, transport, solo/mute/select, etc. I've discovered some things that were absent from inthepipeline's docs as well.

We should collaborate on the Houston rather than have separate projects/codebases/functionality.
Im gonna feint.

Welcome..and i hope ur not "the developer who goes somewhere else"..joking..I thought i noticed a difference in the actual midi messages from the houston vs the hui.

Not to be an idiot, but I think my mackie d8b's HUI layer could be used for any real world output of sent "true hui" messages..I mean..they shoulda been able to get the sdk from themselves?^^ and also I now have the hui's buttons all using the Reaper learn system..thx to bomes..which is no mean feat. Search the internet and I cant find one hui user that can use any daws midi leatn system wo native hui support.

bannned i will post today on the last patch.

Also..so i may save others^^...In my testing..i have to use virtual cables..im on PC..to connect a midi monitor to see what the hui spits and what REaper spits. I have found that any virtual cable i use..midiyoke..maple..some yamaha thing i tried..corrupt the display data sent from Reaper. Meaning it looks all normal but track names are missing.Which made it impossible to do proper "sniffing".Until bomes virtual cables.

Guido
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:29 AM   #73
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If those are the same ones as are available on that webpage you just posted a link to, then that won't be necessary.

[EDIT:] Lol, Steinberg seems to have paste-failed the link to the Details_Houston.pdf file.
Yeah - they suck...
I have it here in german... don't know if that helps.
But I don't think it gives some new information/insight 'bout midi-specs or so...? It's more about the layout and what can be done with it.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:34 AM   #74
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If those are the same ones as are available on that webpage you just posted a link to, then that won't be necessary.

[EDIT:] Lol, Steinberg seems to have paste-failed the link to the Details_Houston.pdf file.
Hi,

if ur saying u cant download it..i have it..but i cant upload it to stassh even zipped.big.. It has useful info but not a data format. I could email to u or somethin? pm me if needed.

Guido

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Awesome. From his notes:

LOL, now *that's* how reverse engineering is done! This gentlemen definitely deserves a fix, too.
hi,

Amen.

Yeah.that was one of the first really hopeful threads, and i was amazed at the lengths ITP went to as u mentioned.^^

btw what came out of that thread is the yammy 01x Csurf^^ just sayin..

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Old 04-24-2012, 10:07 AM   #75
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Yeah - they suck...
I have it here in german... don't know if that helps.
But I don't think it gives some new information/insight 'bout midi-specs or so...? It's more about the layout and what can be done with it.
That *may* help. For example, with the Behringer BCF/BCR-2000, the English and German versions actually say completely different things in some places. Hopefully not in this case...
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[...] if ur saying u cant download it.. [...]
No, I have it now, thanks.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:20 AM   #76
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It's cool to see the Houston talk here, I was planning to post this morning to gauge interest in a proper Houston plugin using inthepipeline's documents as a starting point.

Unfortunately it's not directly compatible with the HUI protocol from what I can tell, with the exception of possibly the faders. So unless there's a way to boot the Houston in a HUI-compatible mode, it needs it's own protocol implemented.

I spent a day over the weekend working on a Houston plugin, and have a reasonable amount of functionality already - faders, vpots, transport, solo/mute/select, etc. I've discovered some things that were absent from inthepipeline's docs as well.

We should collaborate on the Houston rather than have separate projects/codebases/functionality.
Hi scarlton,
my other post sounds like I say no houston ..all me..is not my intention. Would love to find a way where any midi controller can "hook into" whatever comes of this Reahui/Houston/motormix/fill in the blank project. And if u have c+++++++++skillz, and with banned skillz this could be done. And the Reaper forum would be the reason. Awesome!!! Its kinda like when the guy from sequential circuits and the guy from Roland collaborated at a namm show and made THIS whole daw thing possible in the first place.^^

Guido

late for work..bb
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:07 PM   #77
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Hi scarlton, thanks for chiming in!

Perhaps we should even collaborate on a higher level of abstraction, and try to handle all these protocols / devices in a single framework. I figure many (perhaps even most) building blocks for a feature complete implementation of any of them are highly similar, so we may be able to abstract the specifics out and make some common basic platform, with specific modules on top.
I agree that some work could be done to further refine the control surface API, as I feel like there's a lot of boilerplate going into each surface plugin. At some point you do have to deal with the specifics of a particular device though, and I'm not sure it makes sense to group together unlike controllers. However I am willing to participate in that discussion, and even if it only generates a wrapper class with some helper functions, we're all that much better off for it.

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Hi scarlton,
my other post sounds like I say no houston ..all me..is not my intention. Would love to find a way where any midi controller can "hook into" whatever comes of this Reahui/Houston/motormix/fill in the blank project. And if u have c+++++++++skillz, and with banned skillz this could be done. And the Reaper forum would be the reason. Awesome!!! Its kinda like when the guy from sequential circuits and the guy from Roland collaborated at a namm show and made THIS whole daw thing possible in the first place.^^

Guido

late for work..bb
I understand what you meant. I'm just looking for a way to contribute to the REAPER community, whatever way that might be. Control surfaces are of particular interest to me, and there's no reason we can't have support for any one of them without a little time and effort.
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:04 PM   #78
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No running status stuff, just using SysEx, I was using info from the specs in the MotorMix manual.

But, err, so that is *not* your mixer? Lol.

Ok, I guess then the SysEx header in the Pd patch should be changed a bit, and the addressing scheme simplified (I guess we can just delete a bit of maths and use the raw track number).

Try this package instead (I left the previous up, for anyone with a MotorMix - @Dannii, is that you? Give it a try!).

Open the subpatch [pd convert2SysEx] to see where I changed the part that read

[0 1 15 0 17 0(

into

[0 0 102 5 0 16(

I deleted the address calculation stuff there as well.

There's also slight modification to the [track-parameters] subpatch, to truncate the track names to 4 characters (instead of 5).
Hi banned,
Sorry its taken so long. Wow u really are a wiz in that Pd. Although u shoulda told me there was an edit mode under..wher else... Edit.God am i dense.^^
Unfortunatly
1 i cant seem to make the pd patch HUIText.pd show names in the patch in pd..I did get them to show in pd from the one u sent in post 29. Im talking about the pd display.

2 In the second screenie below is me trying to alter the numbers u said in the post above. I cant find it. Useless as a screendoor on a submarine that kid...my dad used to say under his breath.^^ Am I even in the correct pd.patch? watever that is.^^ As alwaus dankjewel!

I must say i am finding it very hard to contain my joy in the direction this is all goin. I dream of something that can take a bunch of controllers..an mcu,a pg300,a bcf,an o1v board^^maybe a C4 thrown in there^^ and a couple of ipads..all working as a system in Reaper. And id be here with my hui and no display.brrrr..nightmare..HA!
Thnx

Guido




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Old 04-24-2012, 04:26 PM   #79
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[...] 1 i cant seem to make the pd patch HUIText.pd show names in the patch in pd..I did get them to show in pd from the one u sent in post 29. Im talking about the pd display.
Not sure where to start checking... I'll check again here if it all works correctly anyway. [EDIT: Just checked again, and it works to update the track names in Pd here.]

Do you see any error messages in Pd's console?

Have you tried the action 'refresh all control surfaces' in REAPER or reloading a project to make REAPER send track names? (switching tracks around also makes REAPER send them for those tracks, [EDIT:] simply renaming them does *not*).

At least do make sure that you're not running two of these patches at the same time (using the same UDP input port would not work, and stop it from receiving data; that module would then also have a red dotted outline and throw an error message to the console).

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2 In the second screenie below is me trying to alter the numbers u said in the post above. I cant find it. Useless as a screendoor on a submarine that kid...my dad used to say under his breath.^^ Am I even in the correct pd.patch? watever that is.^^ As alwaus dankjewel!
I don't see exactly what numbers you're trying to change, but I'll try to answer it generally (as it's more a general editing question):

First, make sure you are in edit mode. There is a keyboard shortcut to toggle it on/off (CMD+E on OS X, not sure what modifier is used on Windows but you can find it in the menu bar).

Then, for most modules, you just double click them to be able to edit the text in them. If it is a subpatch, you can open it by right-clicking on them and selecting open. For some other modules, like number boxes, you can adjust their properties, which can also be accessed from the context menu (right-click).

(You can also look at the .pd files in a plain text editor, sometimes that is easier when you just want to change a couple of values.)

Btw, the patch you'd typically start loading doesn't really do anything, it is just used to hide the stuff you don't need. The functionality is in the other patches.

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Originally Posted by Guido View Post
I must say i am finding it very hard to contain my joy in the direction this is all goin. I dream of something that can take a bunch of controllers..an mcu,a pg300,a bcf,an o1v board^^maybe a C4 thrown in there^^ and a couple of ipads..all working as a system in Reaper. And id be here with my hui and no display.brrrr..nightmare..HA!
Those dreams are already becoming a reality, we just need time to actually make it happen. My system is becoming better day by day. Tip: do make notes and sketches as soon as you wake up.
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Last edited by Banned; 04-24-2012 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 04-24-2012, 05:04 PM   #80
Guido
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Originally Posted by Banned View Post
...

BTW, to emulate a Novation controller, wouldn't you use their Automap protocol? I don't see the relation to HUI?
Hi,

Just saw this..puh..The Novation automap thing is based on hui..

Guido

d'oh..brb
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