Old 09-13-2019, 09:31 PM   #1
Cranky Emu
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Default Windows 10 is hurting my head!

Just done a complete fresh install of Windows 10 (Update 1903) and encountered multiple problems with audio and Reaper.
Previously everything worked perfectly with Windows 7. So I don't believe the hardware is at fault.

Problems:
  • Online audio (streaming from anywhere) is slow and distorted.
  • Local wav audio files (from drives) varies between very distorted to choppy depending on player. Windows Media Player, Groove Player, VLC all very distorted. Wavs are choppy in if loaded into Reaper.
  • Add to the mystery - multi-tracks I have downloaded work fine in Reaper?
  • Ocenaudio is the only thing that plays wav's without issue.
  • VST's load incredibly slow in Reaper, I am talking in the area of 3 minutes. Just starting Reaper with 2 plugins on the master bus can take up to 1 minute.

System Specs:
Intel i7-4790
16GB RAM
GeForce 1050Ti 4GB GPU
Samsung 860 Evo 500GB (Primary)
Samsung 860 Evo 1TB (Where audio files live)
WD 2TB HDD x2 (Backup drives)

I've gone through all the standard procedures such as disabling sleep, and setting everything to 'always on / 100%' power state. Tried all the 'so-called' fixes that are abundant on the Internet. Nothing has worked. There was one really odd occurance, out of sheer desperation I downloaded ASIO4ALL and installed it. It made no difference to the problems, yet when I uninstalled it for reasons I cannot explain, all audio played perfectly with all media players (with the exception of streamed audio, it was still cactus). This did not last - when I turned the PC on the next morning everything was back to the way it was before.

Searching on the net, this seems to be a common problem with the 1903 update (I can't roll back, I have nothing to roll back to). So unless someone else here has experienced this and has a fix or workaround for now it may be a matter of waiting till Microsoft update the update they screwed up or Focusrite release a driver update to fix it. But I would like to at least be able to cure the slow plugin load time that is happening. If anyone has any ideas on that?

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 09-14-2019, 12:08 AM   #2
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No decent USB Audio interface (Focusrite only mentioned in an afterthought) ?

This is known to ask for trouble when audio performance is needed. Internal audio (with our without ASI4ALL) might or might not work.

-Michael
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Old 09-14-2019, 04:48 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
No decent USB Audio interface (Focusrite only mentioned in an afterthought)? This is known to ask for trouble when audio performance is needed. Internal audio (with our without ASI4ALL) might or might not work.

-Michael
Do you mean the Focusrite 2i2 + Windows 10 is not a good match? Never had a moment of trouble with it on Windows 7, now with Windows 10 everything has gone to shit.
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Old 09-14-2019, 05:04 AM   #4
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There is a new focusrite update, at least for the first generation.
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Old 09-14-2019, 06:36 AM   #5
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I bought an rme interface because of all the issues thar came with focusrite & win 8 onwards but apparently the new drivers fix the problems. Finally.
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Old 09-14-2019, 07:46 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cranky Emu View Post
Do you mean the Focusrite 2i2....
You did not mention same in your specs, but you did mention ASIO4ALL, so I thought you would use the PC's sound hardware,.
-Michael
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Old 09-14-2019, 09:42 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cranky Emu View Post
Do you mean the Focusrite 2i2 + Windows 10 is not a good match? Never had a moment of trouble with it on Windows 7, now with Windows 10 everything has gone to shit.
It's possible... Make sure you have the very latest drivers as IIRC I've seen more complaints for this device here than most any other.

https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-...eators-Update-

No, ^it doesn't mention 1903 so take it with a grain of salt. That said, 1903 and my RME are fine.
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Old 09-14-2019, 05:55 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
It's possible... Make sure you have the very latest drivers as IIRC I've seen more complaints for this device here than most any other.
Yeah have the latest drivers, uninstalled and re-installed them many times throughout this saga.
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Old 09-14-2019, 05:55 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
You did not mention same in your specs, but you did mention ASIO4ALL, so I thought you would use the PC's sound hardware,.
-Michael
Correct I forgot to add the 2i2 to the spec list, apologies.
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Old 09-15-2019, 12:16 AM   #10
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used a 2i2 with fully updated windows10 pro and no issues. recently switched over to Axe I/O and no probs here either.

I use asio, not asioforall.

I went to the AVID website and used their guide to prep my laptop to be configured for best daw performance.

installed reaper and been working fine.

So there is some way that Win10 works with all of this, however it may take a bit of hunting to get it all to play nice...

the difference might be home vs pro ?

gremlins in the box are a pain for sure.. let me know if there is any settings you want to compare?
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Old 09-15-2019, 02:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cranky Emu View Post
Correct I forgot to add the 2i2 to the spec list, apologies.
So no need for ASIO4ALL.

-Michael
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Old 09-16-2019, 03:15 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Not_Here View Post
the difference might be home vs pro ?
Pro lets you disable a lot more than Home does for one.
Taking the box into computer shop tomorrow to have the BIOS updated, CPU throttling disabled and a few other minor things resolved. See what happens after that.

Thanks for the offer, will let you know. What version of the 2i2 do you have Gen 1, 2 or 3? Mine is Gen2.

It is behaving really oddly - last night by accident I double clicked on a music file and to my surprise it played perfectly in VLC, checked it in Groove and WMP and again no problems with them, streaming audio was still stuffed. I never made any changes or installed anything to make this occur. Rebooted the toad of a thing tonight, and back to square one with distorted audio in all players except Reaper and Ocenaudio.
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Old 09-16-2019, 07:22 AM   #13
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I have a Scarlett Focusrite 2i2 1st generation. PC has an I7-6700K, 32GB ram. My Windows 10 (home) is 100% up to date, as are my ASIO drivers.

I need to do a bit more testing. On occasion, I get what I'd call hiccups in sound, but generally it's from some other process happening. Unfortunately, my DAW workstation is also my gaming workstation, is also my surfing webstation, is also my.. well.. you get the idea... I have one desktop for pretty much everything. When I'm making music, I try not to do anything else, but sometimes something else is going on.

I would think I would really notice the problems you're saying though, especially the VST load times. I don't have that load time problem at all though.

For my non-Reaper audio, I actually don't even use the Focusrite.. I use onboard. So I'll try VLC later tonight through the Focusrite and see if I have that issue too and will let you know.

Have you tried completely wiping all trace of drivers (including ASIO & ASIO4ALL) and reinstalling just the latest ASIO off the Scarlett website? That said, it sounds like ASIO actually works great for you, if Reaper works fine with them. Still, might not hurt to completely uninstall all drivers associated with that Focusrite and start fresh.
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Old 09-16-2019, 07:47 PM   #14
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Tested out VLC + some wavs on my 2i2 and I'm not hearing any distortion whatsoever.
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Old 09-16-2019, 11:17 PM   #15
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Does VLC do ASIO ?

-Michael
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Old 09-17-2019, 05:22 AM   #16
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I updated to Win 10 this weekend and had to go back to 8.1 yesterday. I'm pretty sure it's due to my ancient audio card though (echo audiofire). I was getting complete system lockups.
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Old 09-17-2019, 06:37 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Does VLC do ASIO ?

-Michael
I don't believe so, no.

Seems interesting that the majority of what he's having issues with is apps not using ASIO.. but that one point of WAV files in Reaper. I wonder though, if it's wave files, if the breakdown is HD or RAM related (reading the file or putting it in RAM). But I'm a little thrown off by the fact Reaper works well outside of wav files.

Cranky Emu, I'm not amazing help for you on this, but maybe try opening up task manager and sort my CPU (and then do the same by Memory) and see if there's anything hogging up cpu or memory when things go distorted on you.

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Old 09-17-2019, 07:16 AM   #18
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I always update my audio drivers after any Windows update. I also check my sound settings as well. Good habit to have.
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Old 09-17-2019, 11:39 AM   #19
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Quote:
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I don't believe so, no.
Hence it will not detect a broken ASIO driver.
-Michael
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Old 09-17-2019, 11:54 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Does VLC do ASIO ?

-Michael
If you set windows to an ASIO device, then tell VLC to use Microsoft Sound Mapper then it's audio will go through the ASIO device. Which brings up a good point... If there are multiple outputs on one's device, set Reaper to 3/4 and the OS to 1/2 for the ASIO device, then all other apps to Sound Mapper which removes any possible conflicts that could occur. AKA you can run VLC, YouTube, Reaper audio all at the same time through the ASIO device.
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Old 09-17-2019, 02:43 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
If you set windows to an ASIO device....
????

Windows does not know ASIO. If you can select an ASIO enabled device in a Windows functionality, that means that the device driver also uses a Windows internal API and not just ASIO.

-Michael
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Old 09-17-2019, 03:02 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
????

Windows does not know ASIO. If you can select an ASIO enabled device in a Windows functionality, that means that the device driver also uses a Windows internal API and not just ASIO.

-Michael
^That is irrelevant to the problems it solves - it's the result we want so it could use dilithium crystals for all I care.

I have Windows set to use my ASIO device as its primary sound device - I then tell VLC and almost all apps that list it to use "Windows Sound Mapper" and windows takes care of it - that's what "mapper" means. It really is that simple.

That said, I've done it this way since ~1998 and it's the best way available to run DAW audio and all windows apps through the same ASIO device, that's why you never, ever see me asking or having problems with OS/Apps/DAW/ASIO audio but no one really follows my advice anyway so suffer they will.

The reason I put reaper on 3/4 (or any stereo pair > 1/2) is because if something goes wrong, the OS will grab 1/2 first, placing reaper on 3/4 prevents the OS from ever grabbing the dedicated reaper channels.
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Old 09-17-2019, 04:10 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Hence it will not detect a broken ASIO driver.
-Michael
You might not have noticed, but I'm not the OP of the thread.

I have the same interface, and the same Windows version. He suspected that there was an issue caused by Windows' latest update with the Focusrite 2i2. Part of his issue exists in Reaper using ASIO driver, part exists outside, using whatever "Windows Sound Mapper" is (I'm unfamiliar with that side of things, so I'll defer to the answer Karbomusic already gave). All I was doing was running similar test on mine to confirm that VLC works just fine for me, so the newest Windows update itself didn't specifically break the Focusrite 2i2 (so long as the OP is using the newest drivers, which I am).

In other words, my post saying VLC works distortion free for me was to say that symptom he's having is likely unrelated to Focusrite 2i2 + Windows 10's latest update. The update could have caused his drivers to get corrupted, so it's not out of the question, but the two should play nice together.
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Old 09-17-2019, 04:28 PM   #24
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Sound Mapper is a virtual device that will take any app's need for audio, find the default audio device and map it to that. It's original intention was to allow playback of sample/bit rates that the sound card can't handle, by converting on the fly. It sometimes gets a bad rap for that however...

It also appears to do a good job of allowing multiple apps to use the same ASIO endpoint, only the app doesn't see the endpoint directly, it just sees the Sound Mapper (assuming you set it to use it). AFAIK I know, this is damn handy because you can't typically have two apps streaming to the same ASIO channels at the same time but with this setup you can.

I keep Reaper and/or any other mission critical audio apps on their own separate audio channels which is usually just reaper. I've never really been in a situation where the Sound Mapper converted audio for apps when it shouldn't nor have I have ever heard a problem - that is kind of irrelevant since I keep Reaper on a dedicated ASIO stereo pair anyway, and regular apps such as VLC, Foobar 2000 and browsers etc to sound mapper or primary sound driver. The only thing I get mixed up on is Sound Mapper vs Primary Sound Driver but I always choose those for "apps" and they can play through my ASIO card all on the same 1/2 stereo ASIO pair both simultaneously and completely separate from Reaper's audio output.

If I ever do hear a difference, I'll be the first to mention it.
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Old 09-17-2019, 08:21 PM   #25
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Question to the OP.. are you using Focusrite USB ASIO driver version 4.63.24? If you go into the Focusrite icon in the tray by the time on your computer and go into settings, it should show the version there. It's a fairly new driver. I think maybe released this summer sometime. If you are using an older version, maybe it would help to uninstall all drivers related to the 2i2, and then install that.
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Old 09-17-2019, 09:11 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cstooch View Post
I don't believe so, no.
Not sure about ASIO but VLC is using the Focusrite 2i2.

In respect to Reaper, I may not have explained it very clearly:

Multi-tracks I download (from anywhere, but I have been working with those from PLAP mostly) play fine.

If I load a wav I have rendered (a rendered mix of mine) it plays like crap, glitchy, laggy whatever term you wish to use.

Same WAV's play fine in Ocenadio (again set to use the 2i2).
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Old 09-17-2019, 09:20 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by cstooch View Post
Question to the OP.. are you using Focusrite USB ASIO driver version 4.63.24? If you go into the Focusrite icon in the tray by the time on your computer and go into settings, it should show the version there. It's a fairly new driver. I think maybe released this summer sometime. If you are using an older version, maybe it would help to uninstall all drivers related to the 2i2, and then install that.
No it is 4.62.1 - I have downloaded the latest driver from Focusrite. I have uninstalled previous drivers, reinstalled 4.63.1 and it keeps reverting back to x.62.1 - no idea why.

Update -
There has been some advancements:
BIOS was updated yesterday to the most current - which seems to have fixed all the problems relating to local audio - ...so far, I still don't trust it.

After playing wavs with all media players and confirming all was good I shut the machine down, and then restarted it - played a wav and it was a little glitchy. To console myself I worked on a mix for awhile, then tried said wav again and it played perfectly.

What get's me is things keep changing. Without me changing anything. Streaming audio is still a lost cause, very choppy and unlistenable.

Back to drivers -
Uninstalling drivers and reinstalling new ones only results in it reverting back to the previous driver. How do I stop this from happening? Disable driver signing maybe?

Update 2 -
Got the latest driver for the 2i2 installed and working - but alas back to the same bullshit with audio distorting/choppy in everything else but Ocenaudio.
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Old 09-17-2019, 10:11 PM   #28
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the same bullshit with audio distorting/choppy in everything else but Ocenaudio.
Does Ocenaudio use ASIO ?

-Michael
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:49 AM   #29
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Does Ocenaudio use ASIO ?-Michael
I am not going to say yes or no, because I am not sure. Although in the audio properties it is set to the 2i2 as the Interface.

I have done a lot work in the registry today along with other things and finally got to a reasonable point. I say this with some caution to, as previously when I thought I had everything resolved, once the PC was shut down and re-started it reverted back to cactus mode.

All audio is now playing fine locally in all players - that issue is now solved. Hopefully it stays that way after shut-down .

Streaming audio - made some advancements there.
Audio streamed plays okay in Windows Edge (it is the only other browser I have on this), but rubbish (choppy) in Google Chrome.

Before anyone asks about Firefox, Opera or whatever - I don't want to be installing unnecessary programs onto this just for the sake of testing. Want to try and keep it as clean, minimal and audio only orientated as I can.
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:12 AM   #30
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Maybe try disabling any extensions in Chrome and see if it is still shit.
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:25 AM   #31
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^That and....

Just a note to be careful testing streaming in browsers, because it adds the network to the equation and there are too many unknowns to assume every browser streams/handles bandwidth in exactly the same way, or that each browser (user-agent) is handed it in the exact same way. I'd not trust it (for sound card evaluation) unless the thing you are streaming is coming from your own HDD or you are good a reading network traces.
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Old 09-19-2019, 04:26 AM   #32
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Maybe try disabling any extensions in Chrome and see if it is still shit.
There are none.
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Old 09-19-2019, 04:30 AM   #33
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^That and....

Just a note to be careful testing streaming in browsers, because it adds the network to the equation and there are too many unknowns to assume every browser streams/handles bandwidth in exactly the same way, or that each browser (user-agent) is handed it in the exact same way. I'd not trust it (for sound card evaluation) unless the thing you are streaming is coming from your own HDD or you are good a reading network traces.
Correct you are.
At it is right now I am just going to sit on it until another update of both Windows and the 2i2 driver comes along. Multi-tracks are okay in Reaper, wavs play okay in Ocenaudio. I am getting to distracted by trying to chase my tail with this and not much mixing is happening.

It is a very weird thing. Start the computer and wav's won't play in anything other than Ocenaudio/Reaper. An hour later they might! Right now as I write this all is fine (except for streaming audio in Chrome), but I can safely say if I shut down and re-started that would not be the same.
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Old 09-21-2019, 10:18 PM   #34
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Could this be a USB compatibility issue? Does your motherboard have both USB2 and USB3 ports? Try whichever USB version you aren't using now.
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Old 09-23-2019, 12:38 AM   #35
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Could this be a USB compatibility issue? Does your motherboard have both USB2 and USB3 ports? Try whichever USB version you aren't using now.
Tried that in vain.
I am more than confident is isn't a matter of hardware compatibility considering with Windows 7 all was fine.
For now, local files (regardless of type) play fine in all media players. When I first start up the computer, for about 5 minutes or so, audio can skip/chop in every player (including Reaper) - this does not happen on every start-up though. Probably happens on 1 in 5 start-ups.

No bloody idea why audio is working perfectly locally now. Nothing has been changed, upgraded or updated - including Windows. Streaming via Edge browser is fine, no good with Chrome, so there is an issue with streaming audio in Chrome - hopefully the next update to Chrome will sort that out.
I am just happy that audio locally is working pretty well now. Streaming audio is not such a major problem.
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Old 09-23-2019, 02:12 AM   #36
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Have you run a DPC latency check?

https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

Some intel network adapters and drivers have caused major DPC latency problems, causing the sort of symptoms you are talking about. Well worth checking.

Nvidia graphics cards also have a history of such problems.

Changing levels of network and graphics activity could explain why it doesn't happen all the time.

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Old 09-24-2019, 08:04 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumphil View Post
Have you run a DPC latency check?

https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

Some intel network adapters and drivers have caused major DPC latency problems, causing the sort of symptoms you are talking about. Well worth checking.

Nvidia graphics cards also have a history of such problems.

Changing levels of network and graphics activity could explain why it doesn't happen all the time.
Yes, done so. Prior to doing a lot of work within the registry the LatencyMon test was off the scale.

The highest can be (not at same time):
ndis.sys
tcpip.sys
nvlddmkm.sys

The highest DPC from the above varies from test run to test run, but they are the most common. The two most common are the network and nvidia.
I have updated the GPU driver to the latest version for my card, along with the driver for the network adapter.

As for streaming audio, I am now pretty confident that is a problem exclusive to Chrome. Edge plays streamed audio with no problems.
The rest, as you said is most likely an issue with the GPU.
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Old 09-24-2019, 08:45 PM   #38
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I know you've pretty much given up until you get some updates, but I'm wondering if you tried disabling/enabling hardware acceleration in chrome. I had an issue with video in twitter in Chrome not playing on one pc, and that solved that.
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Old 09-24-2019, 10:00 PM   #39
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Have you tried chrome://flags/ and searched for GPU?
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Old 09-25-2019, 03:14 AM   #40
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If you have access to a generic realtek network adapter, it might be worth trying that. I know that some people have fixed their audio issues by ditching the intel NIC.
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