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Old 03-23-2011, 05:01 PM   #1
Pashkuli
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Default New e-book: "Treatise On Pentatonics"

Hi, dear reaperties and forum members. Recently I finished my book after long months of design work and translating it in English so I thought it would be nice to share the final version with you. They say 'a picture (video) is worth a thousand words' so you are free to watch the small video-preview (~7:55 min) I've made to promote the e-book. Yes, it is an e-book (.pdf format file, ~42 MB size in RGB color space, 102 pages) and I plan to release it as a press quality hard-copy purchase too. Here is the link to the video:

Treatise On Pentatonics - video preview


What that book is all about and why would one read it?

1. This book is suitable for people that are interested in music theory and teaching practice as also to children wanting to know more and different things
2. The subjects in it are known to have completely new approach to the problems of old and contemporary music theory and education
3. As a disclaimer I should mention that the book is considered inappropriate for musicians over 18 years of age because it deals with the very basic definitions in conventional music theory and does change them in a more simple way I believe
4. It concerns the problems with piano keyboard, the notes, the staff, the clefs, accidentals and so on...
5. It consists of only vector illustrations, fonts, drawings and background images (all of vector type)

I hope you'll enjoy reading it as much as I did while writing it!


For those of you who want to use the Plain Notation System please follow this Wiki-link:

Plain Notation System

-- Ian van Loyden

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Old 03-24-2011, 02:37 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adXok View Post
3. As a disclaimer I should mention that the book is considered inappropriate for musicians over 18 years of age
Hmmm, too bad, you got me interested for a moment...
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Old 03-24-2011, 04:48 AM   #3
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Yeah, that is right.

I found it very hard to explain to already educated musicians that what they had been learning was based on bad heritage and limited perspective.

Contrary to that children seems to catch up the new ideas very fast and without problems.
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Old 03-24-2011, 05:35 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adXok View Post
I found it very hard to explain to already educated musicians that what they had been learning was based on bad heritage and limited perspective.

Contrary to that children seems to catch up the new ideas very fast and without problems.
As an educated educator/musician I find this intriguing.
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Old 03-24-2011, 06:27 AM   #5
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i like the premise. I can't quite justify 30$ for an ebook though...
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Old 03-24-2011, 07:23 AM   #6
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pixeltarian, that is right. The price is not low. You do not pay only for 40MB .pdf as there is almost 10 years of research involved in that book and many new ideas so simple that they are even dangerous. Teh price has been updated!

It is mostly oriented to the knowledge-collectors out there and to children. By children I mean unprejudiced people who want to know different things on a subject. That is all.

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Old 03-24-2011, 08:44 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeltarian View Post
i like the premise. I can't quite justify 30$ for an ebook though...
I get occasionally some special offers from lulu - 20% off everything, maybe this will be a good time for a purchase.

Even though I'm almost twice the recommended age limit, I still like to believe myself open minded enough.
I your book offers some insights of how to make the music theory easier to understand than the regular approach, then I think it's worth it.

You can't beat easier, no matter how good you already are
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:53 AM   #8
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You should at least publish the titles of the chapter headings. Does your theory have any implications on the existence tonal centers (or lack thereof)? Voice leading?

I have pursued the study of the Equal Interval System for the last 3 years and I've found it to be an original and revolutionary look at music theory/composition.

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Old 03-24-2011, 09:00 AM   #9
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Nice - congratulations!

Do you have a chapter index?
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:28 AM   #10
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Just watched the video intro.

I found it well made and interesting.
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Old 03-24-2011, 10:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adXok View Post
Yeah, that is right.

I found it very hard to explain to already educated musicians that what they had been learning was based on bad heritage and limited perspective.

Contrary to that children seems to catch up the new ideas very fast and without problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adXok View Post
It is mostly oriented to the knowledge-collectors out there and to children. By children I mean unprejudiced people who want to know different things on a subject. That is all.
Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way, I don't know, but condescending to "educated musicians" on a forum that is full of educated people in all fields of music and audio, is not likely a good way to draw people to buy your product. Unless this is some kind of attempt to be shocking in order to make people curious...which would be a risky marketing tactic for an apparently unpublished civil engineer writing about music theory. Truly, good luck with that.

$30 for your e-book is a high price without any background. What IS your musical background? This is a key piece of information to a customer who is looking at purchasing an instructional guide. Particularly one that seems to focus on a new teaching method which I would think might delve into several fields including general music studies as well as psychology, in particular child psychology.

And are we allowed to advertise our own merchandise on the Cockos forums?
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Old 03-24-2011, 01:19 PM   #12
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Thank you guys for your opinions. I appreciate that very much!

@carbon - the age limit is an advert. joke of course... the opposite of 'under 18', just to make it a little bit shocking and to provoke the "Why?" question we forgot to ask near 10 years of age. 20% off is good enough I suppose if you have the permission from lulu.

@jsaras - there are no specific chapters because the book is structured as a Q&A type of "conversation". If there should be any Chapters they would be just: tones, intervals, chords, keyboard, fretboard, notation... as simple tags, so I thought it would be irrelevant to make any Chapters more over the new ideas starts right from the first pages and the Q&A flow in that manner comparing it to the conventional definitions
· I have never heard about Equal Interval System (time to google it)
· I think I got it but it is a music composing method, something very different from what my book is about

@peter5992 and @nofish - thank you guys for the support, I made it using Vegas' standart effects and a bunch of pictures from the Internet, also used some pictures from Vladstudio (a russian designer)

@Gizzmo0815 - by "educated musicians" I mean those used to memorize the standard academic explanations, though music does not depend on theory in any means, I suppose the book to be interesting to people that gather knowledge and different views on a subject not to the general music society (i.e. I do not expect the book bought by music academic members or audio-maniacs nor sound engineers)
· the background I have is irrelevant and I would like to know how to make a background... background in what should be enough; am I supposed to have written already at least 10 books?
· I do not mind closed or even deleted this thread by the Administrator (Cockos); I have too many music songs that never had been released nor even sound-recorded. A 100 pages of text wouldn't take that much space either.
· just for the protocol: the book is free but only in my native language

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Old 03-24-2011, 02:54 PM   #13
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hmmm...interesting, I was, and still am interested in tonal systems...did my research some time ago and I find it fascinating since it`s not all about outside word, it`s also very important to understand human factor (the subject of perception, our brain)

I would love to read your book but before I cash out 30 bucks I would really like to know the name of the chapters at least just to get a rough idea what is it about (you know, before you buy the book in the bookstore you usually leaf the pages at least)

Thanks!
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Old 03-24-2011, 04:10 PM   #14
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I knew I had to make Table of Contents (and I did it but did not include it 'cause the Q-lines were too long for a ToC) from the Question-style of paragraphs, so here is a little excerpt:

· The Remarkable Tone
· Tonal Base
· False Tones
· Naming The Tones
· Diatonic System
· n-Tonics
· Tetrachord
· Pentatonics
· Intervals
· Essence
· The Hidden Pentatonics
· Inversions
· Tonalities
· Pentatonics With Primes (a prime is an interval)
· The Score
· Tabulature
· Piano Keyboard Design
· Examples

A very brief ToC excerpt and that is what was the final idea about ToC i.e. nothing so new or unknown. The Questions & Answers across are probably 10 times that.

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Old 03-24-2011, 04:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizzmo0815 View Post
Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way, I don't know, but condescending to "educated musicians" on a forum that is full of educated people in all fields of music and audio, is not likely a good way to draw people to buy your product.
I took it as being full of ideas that might be harder to absorb for anyone who has already burned in most of what they know. I didn't see it as condescending at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adXok
- the background I have is irrelevant
I agree, best of luck on your book AdXok

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Old 03-24-2011, 04:53 PM   #16
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sounds very interesting but I have to agree it is hard to justify for some reason.
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:49 PM   #17
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It seems to me that you are skirting around the edges of simply stating what the book explains. Can you tell me some of the concepts (not TOC listings) that would be explained? What understandings are you hoping to impart on someone who would use this book?

Forgive me if I seem a little skeptical, but I'm big on straight talk ahead of marketing teasers.
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:20 PM   #18
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How about a few sample pages? It's quite common with ebooks to have a free chapter as a "taster"
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Old 03-25-2011, 01:12 AM   #19
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@drumphil - concepts, ideas...
  1. I explain why the contemporary notation system is a special case derived from the wrong design of the piano keyboard while the majority of the musicians are not keyboardists
  2. I explain why all the tones in a tonal system should have unique names and designated letters (glyph symbols are far more advanced but letters are common) according to each respective name
  3. I explain why the score is too complex while it could be so simple just like a midi-editor is though many midi-editors are based on the same standard piano keyboard unfortunately (concerning accidentals, clefs, structure)
  4. I explain why many musicians do not see the real purpose of the pentatonics and use them as blues patterns learned from a notebook or exercises
  5. I explain how intervals could be designated and named also to recognize their inversion in an instance or at a glance
  6. I explain how a chord structure could be written with a respect of each tone in it, each interval between the tones in it and how that could be clear and simple done even without the need to make a reference peek into the score notes above it (no, it is not a guitar tab, so it could be used by all musicians)
  7. I give examples of how various chords and each of their inversions could be easily written and recognized almost immediately on the instrument the musician is used to play; it is a very simple and logical idea but it is new
  8. I design a completely new piano keyboard with the respect of Jankò's idea but far more simple and useful, though in the book are exposed the basic drawings of it as the real new keyboard design is somehow even more simple - despite that in the book is designed the key shape that is critical to the invention - the shapes and the "intersections" between the keys of the two rows are what make it simple

The book is not here to tell you how to compose your music nor how to play your instrument but how you could look at and view at each element of the intervals, chords, tone sequences and all that interactions in a more simple way. I even make a slight reference to why math is so badly taught at schools. If you can say the true result of 12 - 5 = ? then you can read the book from cover to cover.

@XonXoff - there are sample pages on the web-page at lulu but the site allows me to upload not more than 2MB of sample pages in total, so it has its limits.

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Old 03-25-2011, 06:53 AM   #20
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yeah, I wish there was an affordable way to get a janko keyboard.
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Old 03-25-2011, 07:48 PM   #21
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Thanks for the reply adXok. I can think of a few people who might be interested in that. If I wasn't so focused on my drumming, and running a radio station, I'd get a copy myself now. I have also forwarded this thread to a few friends of mine who are teachers at Australian TAFE (technical and further education) Institutes who may be interested.

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Old 03-28-2011, 12:57 AM   #22
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Looking at the introduction text in your video makes it abundantly clear that English isn't you native language. (I assume I can include these under the Fair use doctrine - they reveal no "secrets" from the text):

Quote:
What Is Sound?
Sound we perceive thanks to our ears but we hear sound thanks to our mind and brain. In some cases we catch sounds because of our sense of touch which is the basic and main part of all other senses in the human body. A sound makes practicaly every single material thing that touches phisically many other thing or is at phisical motion towards at least one thing (by "thing" I mean a material object). Our eardrums have limmited capability (frame range) of capturing sounds and that range is different to different animals and spices which brought us inventing various equipment to help knowing what's happening with sounds our ears can not perceive. Similar equipment we have for the rest of our senses that are somehow limmited to.

What Is A Tone?
All musical sounds evolve from a tone. But a tone we have only when certain rules have been made, according to whom we defined when a sound is going to be a tone! Usually these rules are set with the help of concepts like time, movement and some other terms for specific physical quantities that in fact could not be so easily explained or can't be completely understood, though we take and accept them in our lives by defaut!
For $30, is it really too much to ask that the book be spell checked and proofread by a native English speaker? Even these introductory paragraphs raise basic questions:
  • We "hear" sound with our ears, but "perceive" with our brain - not the other way around.
  • Our "mind" and "brain" aren't distinct things, unless you mean "brain" and "soul", and I don't think this is a place for metaphysics.
  • I have no clue how we can "catch sounds because of our sense of touch."
  • A sound makes... Huh? This sentence makes no sense.
  • Nowhere do you answer the question of what sound is. (Hint: click here).
  • You use the word tone, but you mix up a lot of different concepts. You start to talk about pitch, and then go on to organizational principles people use to understand music. And again, you never define what "tone" is (another hint: click here).
The book appears to be an advertisement for a notational system which only other people paying $30 will be familiar with, and a patented keyboard design which (to ensure continued secrecy) isn't explained in great detail. If I wanted a notational system that accurately reflected intervals, I'd be using figured bass notation or chord symbols... Ooops - I'm already doing that.

Your notational system is only useful for communicating with people who already know your notational system (i.e. no musicians I know), which makes it not particularly useful for me.

Quote:
I explain why many musicians do not see the real purpose of the pentatonics and use them as blues patterns learned from a notebook or exercises
There's a "real purpose" of pentatonics? Most musicians that I'm aware don't just play "patterns learned from a notebook or exercises".

Since the focus of your eBook is on notation, might I suggest that a title change could be of benefit?

And while the current "common" Western notational system has problems, there's a reason it's still around: it works well within a diatonic tonal system. Since most of the time we're actually in a diatonic system, the advantages of that sort of system generally outweigh the disadvantages. That's the real reason a chromatic system hasn't overtaken the current system. In order for a new system to make headway, it would not only have to solve the notational issues your system addresses, but also be compellingly better than what exists. Can you say that your system does that?

In any event, good luck! While I may not be your target audience, it certainly sounds like the interest is there for some other folk.

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Old 03-28-2011, 02:06 AM   #23
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@dcuny - of course English is not my first language (in fact my native language is completely different from any latin language). Above I also mention that the book is free only in my native language. I do not know anything about Fair Use doctrine - if you mean one could buy the book and copy\paste it to their friends - of course he or she could do that - I am not surrounded by a bunch of dedicated lawyers.
The book is for those who really want to have it no matter that it suffers grammar issues like that :

· A sound makes practically every...
- Yes, I am completely aware of that differences in grammar structure of sentences between languages. "Practically every thing that touches other thing makes a sound or make a sound if relativistic theory is to be taken into consideration about who touches who" - is that more correct?
· We "hear" sound with our ears, but "perceive" with our brain - not the other way around.
- just think for a moment that you are capable of doing both

Shortly said is that no matter if you perceive or hear, if you think of yourself as a mind or just a brain, nothing of those is what you really are.

If you would like to read Wiki-quotes, then the book definitely is not for you.
Of course my notation system is not useful for musicians over 18 years old. Did you read the sticker on the cover or the disclaimer in my first post?!

Ok, it seems those musicians you know know how to use pentatonics. (can I say "know know"? when in english there are no conjugations except 3rd p.s.)

No I cannot say what is better when only one method and practice is taught at music schools and academies. Compare and judge for yourself... I did it more than a decade back.

Keep in mind that I got critics almost right after when I started to work on those ideas back in late '90s. Many of those critics were very helping as also there were many people that didn't even understand most of things I wrote in our native language.

I've got already many complains about the price and after some cosmetic fixes like sentences' structure for better correlation between verbs and substantives that dcuny pointed at, the price has been decreased, discounted or lowered. The file has been also updated and reuploaded

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Old 03-31-2011, 08:57 AM   #24
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Paperback also available at lulu.com
See my signature below for more details...

|
|
V

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Old 03-31-2011, 07:28 PM   #25
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good luck with this! I am so far from the age guidline you set that it would probably be criminal for me to read it, lol. Writing, releasing a book like this (the premise at least, I havent read the book) is an impressive accomplishment.
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Old 03-31-2011, 07:45 PM   #26
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it is truly interesting, but so hard to know if I would find it worthwhile...
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:54 AM   #27
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thequietroom,
the age "advisory" is just a little adv. joke and at the same time warning to those who have their academic degree in music, because after reading the book they might find all their musical learning somehow dogmatic without even being informed for the possible alternative that is more than 100 years old from now and of course my revision of it that is far more simple.


Jason, in no way I would like to force you to buy the book. If I say to you "Yes, it is worth it! Buy it!" then any word in it you probably gonna find wrong and you might say "Crap, that ain't worth it, the guy is a fraud!". If you have questions I would like to answer to but do not provoke me to give you insurance against dislikes.

It was for the MNP forum members and it still is. I posted it here 'cause I thought many people here like new ideas.

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Old 04-01-2011, 02:38 AM   #28
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The ebook shop does not tell us if this PDF is copyright protected.

Furthermore: any plans for a kindle version and selling it on amazon? (I could help transfering it to kindle format - I have all the necessary software installed)
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Old 04-01-2011, 04:51 AM   #29
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Yes it does... just click on Product Details to find: Standard Copyright License... whatever that means.
It is in .pdf and AFAIK Kindle 2 does support .pdf formats (Version 2.3 firmware upgrade for Kindle 2) and even Colored graphics.

About selling it on Amazon... I do not know what is the procedure just that a publisher (if I pay to lulu.com a certain amount of money for example to represent the book) should deal with Amazon. Me, as the author, do not have the right to upload it to Amazon web-site. That is what I know, probably true, same with iTunes, iBooks or whatever the name is in Apple's stores.

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Old 04-01-2011, 05:26 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adXok View Post
Yes it does... just click on Product Details to find: Standard Copyright License... whatever that means.
It is in .pdf and AFAIK Kindle 2 does support .pdf formats (Version 2.3 firmware upgrade for Kindle 2) and even Colored graphics.

About selling it on Amazon... I do not know what is the procedure just that a publisher (if I pay to lulu.com a certain amount of money for example to represent the book) should deal with Amazon. Me, as the author, do not have the right to upload it to Amazon web-site. That is what I know, probably true, same with iTunes, iBooks or whatever the name is in Apple's stores.
Well. Yes. Unprotected PDF is "visible" on Kindle but in most cases not readable. If the PDF is not protected I could well convert it to Kindle on my own. If its protected then there is no (legal) way to neither convert nor read on Kindle.

Selfpublishing by Authors is OK with Amazon. They charge about 35% or something from the sales price.
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Old 04-01-2011, 05:53 AM   #31
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I do not know if Lulu makes any protection to the .pdf file after it is being uploaded to their store and maybe it is so.
The originals in .pdf format non-password protected or whatsoever are in my PC.
I will research the possibility to sell the book as an e-book on Amazon though I believe that Amazon is just a store and they cannot make hard-copies on demand but just the e-book storage and selling.
I hardly doubt of near satisfactory conversion from the original .pdf to .awz or whatever the kindle book-format file is.

P.s. It is not that if I upload it to Amazon the book will sell more and more. I can do that on a dedicated web-site. The book was never intended to be advertised or made to be a best-seller. If it happens to be... then I should kill myself.

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Old 04-01-2011, 06:08 AM   #32
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Correct, Amazon is e-book only for authors.

I took the REAPER guide in PDF and converted it to Kindle. Its OK, but not perfect. I found that converting PDF to HTML first and later use the amazon-SOftware to make kindle from HTML works best. Many PDFs translated 1:1 - perfect.
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Old 04-01-2011, 08:34 AM   #33
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Seems that it's a URLLink.acsm file for downloading.
I think it only works with the Adobe Digital Editions.
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Old 04-01-2011, 08:39 AM   #34
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Jason, in no way I would like to force you to buy the book. If I say to you "Yes, it is worth it! Buy it!" then any word in it you probably gonna find wrong and you might say "Crap, that ain't worth it, the guy is a fraud!". If you have questions I would like to answer to but do not provoke me to give you insurance against dislikes.
I dont feel forced or anything, it's just that it looks truly interesting but it's just so hard to know online. If it were in a store and I was thumbing through it, that would be a different story. Is there an "every other page for 50 pages" preview or something?
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Old 04-01-2011, 10:58 AM   #35
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Jason, you want it, you got it:

Treatise On Pentatonics - .pdf preview

- preview right away
- approximate size: 15MB (even pages)
- free download of the preview


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What is a URLLink.acsm file?

If you downloaded a eBook from a file named something like URLLink.acsm, don't worry — this isn't a problem. The ACSM file is a license for the PDF or EPUB book you bought. To get the rest of your book you just need to open the .ACSM file in a free application called Adobe Digital Editions. Digital Editions will verify your license and then download your eBook (in either EPUB or PDF format). You can then read your book, or transfer it to an eReader.

You get a license file when you download a book that is protected by Adobe Digital Rights Management (DRM). DRM prevents the unauthorized copying or distribution of books, to protect the rights of authors and publishers. Most books in the Kobo Store are protected by DRM.

To open your .ACSM file:

1. Install Adobe Digital Editions and authorize your computer, as well as your eReader if you have one. (Click here for more information.)
2. Find where you saved the .ACSM file.
3. Right-click the file, select Open With, and choose Adobe Digital Editions.
4. Digital Editions should start, download the rest of your book, and add it to the Digital Editions library.
I wasn't aware of that... thought that the buyer is given a direct link to the proper .PDF file of the eBook.

Last edited by Pashkuli; 04-04-2011 at 04:15 AM.
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Old 04-02-2011, 08:56 AM   #36
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I've made it to page 30 now and I have to say it's a bit too advanced for me.
I can follow sections here and there, but overall image is far from clear.
I'll try to make it to the end, perhaps it'll start to click.
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Old 04-02-2011, 09:12 AM   #37
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Agreed, if only taken into consideration that in the book I am dealing with the very... very basic concept, definitions and terms in music theory.
It is more like to start to think and write in another language. That is why I say at the very beginning of the book that it is considered inappropriate for musically educated persons over 18 years of age. The world of "music language" in their heads has already been built form A, B, C... while I change even that base to build the same world of music theory.


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Old 04-03-2011, 09:18 AM   #38
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Your book definitely sounds interesting. Teh, I just said "sounds" interesting. I didn't hear that that one coming myself.

AdXok, have you ever read the treatise on music by the Bulgarian master "Peter Deunov"?
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:37 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by krahosk View Post
Teh, I just said "sounds" interesting. I didn't hear that that one coming myself.
I couldn't understand those sentences.

No I haven't read it, though Peter Deunov (Петър Дънов) was a (self)proclaimed spiritual leader at the beginning of 20th century (if we are talking about the same guy) and he discussed various subjects of life and spirit where music was just an element of his Paneurythmics. He was the leader of The White Brotherhood and so on, which purpose I am not familiar with in big depth.
His teaching was forbidden after the (pseudo)communists came into office and reign supreme during the second half of the same 20th century. The Official orthodox Church also denies the teachings of Peter Deunov. That is what I know and I am not too keen on religions.

There exists this quote by A. Einstein who once said:
"All the world renders homage to me and I render homage to the Master Peter Deunov from Bulgaria"
-- Albert Einstein

And again I doubt he had to do anything with music theory, he was just a spiritual leader though he predicted the false of communism that happened later in our country.

Last edited by Pashkuli; 04-05-2011 at 08:08 AM.
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Old 05-25-2011, 12:15 PM   #40
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To all Reaper users:

The direct link where you can download the "Treatise On Pentatoncs" e-book is here:

Treatise-On-Pentatonics-Ian-van-Loyden-RGB.pdf

For those of you who want to use the Plain Notation System please follow this Wiki-link:

Plain Notation System


P.S. Some of the ideas in this book you can see present but hidden in Repaer (especially the Scales .txt files in:
...\REAPER\Data\ix_scales)

- read the book and hopefully you'll understand
- if you try to print the book it will be a nightmare for your printer! You've been warned!

Last edited by Pashkuli; 06-30-2011 at 12:20 AM.
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