Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER for macOS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-30-2017, 03:52 AM   #1
Arpegia
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Paris-Bruxelles
Posts: 1,266
Default Results of test Mac performance

Hello everybody,

I did lots of tests to increase Reaper performance and I am a bit disappointed.

My config: Mac Pro 12 Cores 64Gb Ram. 40 track instruments with Kontakt, 6 Audio tracks, 4 Sub Groups , 3 Reverb, 60 AU/VST Plugin, 4 Acustica plugins on Sub Grp and 2 Acustica plugins on Master track.

With a Buffer at 512, lots of clic and drop. Same at 1024 and 2048.

To avoid all sound issues, the Buffer must be at 4096. (But impossible to add new real time midi parts with 1seconde Latency).

To get better performances, I try to change some settings in Reaper Preferences but without noticeable changes.

I try to use only VST plugins = no change.

Then i try to change the Mac Settings:

1 - Multi-threading off (with Xcode/instruments) . Because some users said that Reaper doesn't like it so much

But it doesn't change anything for me.

2- Turbo Boost Switcher off - (with Turbo Boost Switcher) Switch off before launch Reaper but no noticeable change.

Then, I think that there no other way to optimize Reaper performance if you want to mix with 1024 Buffer.
I was working (till few month) with Logic Pro which has better performance in 1024 (more tracks and more Acustica Plugin) .

If anybody else has other conclusions, he's welcome :-)

Last edited by Arpegia; 07-30-2017 at 06:58 AM.
Arpegia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2017, 07:49 AM   #2
Krubbadoo
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 3
Default more details about your setup?

Hi!
Would you mind telling us a little more about your Audio card? Are you using a 5,1 or 6,1 Macpro?
Krubbadoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2017, 09:22 AM   #3
Arpegia
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Paris-Bruxelles
Posts: 1,266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krubbadoo View Post
Hi!
Would you mind telling us a little more about your Audio card? Are you using a 5,1 or 6,1 Macpro?

I use a Mac pro 6.1 (Late 2013) and for more efficiency I use the internal "Core audio" and the Optical Digital output (Toslink. Cable 3,5) direct to the Central station (Personus)
Arpegia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2017, 09:57 AM   #4
vanhaze
Human being with feelings
 
vanhaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
Default

Never ever heard of the fact that Apple's native sounddevice would be more more cpu efficient in a DAW than a thirdparty sounddevice...
__________________
Macbook Pro INTEL | Reaper, always latest version | OSX Ventura | Presonus Studio 24c
My Reaper Tips&Tricks YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/vanhaze2000/playlists
vanhaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2017, 10:32 AM   #5
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,557
Default

I wouldn't expect the Mac's built-in audio interface to be NOT efficient...

But of course the built-in interface seems aimed at basic home theater needs vs. 3rd party interfaces made specifically for studio or live sound needs. So I wouldn't be shocked if, for example, it doesn't handle low latency use well.

That machine should be so absurdly over powered for ANY audio work that it would be silly to even question. The one thing I don't have a lot of hands on experience with is the more gargantuan instrument sampling plugins. I understand some of these are pretty over the top with processing needs and some of them even use more than 2gb ram. But something that can slow down a machine like this? That doesn't sound right... Is Kontact one of those big guns?

Well, lets see.
Is this really a CPU hit? Does Activity Monitor agree? A rule of thumb is if you have clicks/pops but you aren't actually maxing out CPU use (not even a single core), this is a telltale of a crashing plugin.

Reaper has a feature called Anticipative fx Processing that is not compatible with all (most?) 3rd party plugins. Check up on that next. Tip: Disable this per track for any inserted 3rd party plugin instead of disabling it globally. Disabling globally = bad. Always try it first though. When it's compatible it's a good thing.

What control panel are you using to control the sample rate and block size for the connected interface (including the built-in)? The Reaper Preferences/audio/device page or other? You are aware that checking the boxes next to those controls in Reaper enables them and unchecked disables them (to allow other apps to be used)?
serr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2017, 11:52 AM   #6
Arpegia
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Paris-Bruxelles
Posts: 1,266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post

But of course the built-in interface seems aimed at basic home theater needs vs. 3rd party interfaces made specifically for studio or live sound needs. So I wouldn't be shocked if, for example, it doesn't handle low latency use well.
Apple recommend to use the built-in interface with Logic Pro to get shorter latency and better performances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post

That machine should be so absurdly over powered for ANY audio work that it would be silly to even question. The one thing I don't have a lot of hands on experience with is the more gargantuan instrument sampling plugins. I understand some of these are pretty over the top with processing needs and some of them even use more than 2gb ram. But something that can slow down a machine like this? That doesn't sound right... Is Kontact one of those big guns?
Yes, I mainly use Kontakt and big sample sounds but It's impossible for me to work without.

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post

Well, lets see.
Is this really a CPU hit? Does Activity Monitor agree? A rule of thumb is if you have clicks/pops but you aren't actually maxing out CPU use (not even a single core), this is a telltale of a crashing plugin.

Reaper has a feature called Anticipative fx Processing that is not compatible with all (most?) 3rd party plugins. Check up on that next. Tip: Disable this per track for any inserted 3rd party plugin instead of disabling it globally. Disabling globally = bad. Always try it first though. When it's compatible it's a good thing.
I don't know if it could be the problem but I would like to try. Then, what you recommend is to select a track, go to "Track Performance Option" and select "Prevent anticipative FX".
OK, but how could I know if it bring something good or not ?
I just try with a piano sound and an Acustica Aqua Plugin and it doesn't change anything ! The piano sounds good without more latency. Does-it mean that the track doesn't need Anticipative FX ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
What control panel are you using to control the sample rate and block size for the connected interface (including the built-in)? The Reaper Preferences/audio/device page or other?
I use the Audio device preference from Reaper to control the Sample Rate and block Size, and I check the CPU usage from the Reaper Performance meter, and Mac Activity Monitor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
You are aware that checking the boxes next to those controls in Reaper enables them and unchecked disables them (to allow other apps to be used)?
I don't understand what you mean. Can you explain ?
Arpegia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2017, 12:24 PM   #7
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,557
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arpegia View Post
Apple recommend to use the built-in interface with Logic Pro to get shorter latency and better performances.
That statement surely must be twisted with some miscommunication. Apple would never suggest that their cursory built-in audio interface would outperform a professional audio interface made for studio or live sound work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arpegia View Post
Yes, I mainly use Kontakt and big sample sounds but It's impossible for me to work without.
I wasn't suggesting anything wrong with that. (Or anything wrong with the processing hog instrument plugins in general.) What CPU use does this have?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arpegia View Post
I don't know if it could be the problem but I would like to try. Then, what you recommend is to select a track, go to "Track Performance Option" and select "Prevent anticipative FX".
OK, but how could I know if it bring something good or not ?
That's the procedure yes. You'd know if it worked if you had audio dropouts before even though you weren't maxing out the system at all and now they went away. Trial and error in other words.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arpegia View Post
I just try with a piano sound and an Acustica Aqua Plugin and it doesn't change anything ! The piano sounds good without more latency. Does-it mean that the track doesn't need Anticipative FX ?
The latency you set your DAW to operate with (via the block size control) has no relationship to Anticipative FX whatsoever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arpegia View Post
I use the Audio device preference from Reaper to control the Sample Rate and block Size, and I check the CPU usage from the Reaper Performance meter, and Mac Activity Monitor.



I don't understand what you mean. Can you explain ?
Checking the box next to these controls enables them in Reaper. Unchecking the box disables the control from Reaper to allow you to use a different audio app or control panel app instead. Any value entered in the field will be ignored if the box is unchecked.

Some interfaces don't play nice and/or demand use of proprietary control panel apps. Reaper has you covered for pretty much any scenario. As such, you now have these controls to keep track of and the ability to get into even more trouble!
serr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2017, 01:09 PM   #8
Arpegia
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Paris-Bruxelles
Posts: 1,266
Default

Serr, thanks for your time and your answers.

About Kontakt CPU usage, it depends of the loading sound. Spitfire and orchestral tool sounds are more greedy than Native instruments.

About the Anticipative FX, even if I don't understand what it does, I am going to check with a big session which have drops and clics (at 1024) , and disable anticipative FX track by track to see what happen.

About
Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
Checking the box next to these controls enables them in Reaper. Unchecking the box disables the control from Reaper to allow you to use a different audio app or control panel app instead. Any value entered in the field will be ignored if the box is unchecked.

Some interfaces don't play nice and/or demand use of proprietary control panel apps. Reaper has you covered for pretty much any scenario. As such, you now have these controls to keep track of and the ability to get into even more trouble!
I am so sorry, but unfortunately I am French, and my English is not good enough to understand what you write.
What are you speaking about with : "The box next to these controls enable them in Reaper" ? Which Box ?
What de you mean : "Unchecking the box disables the control from Reaper to allow you to use a different audio app or control panel app instead" ?

I hope you will find other (more simple) words, to make me understand :-)

Many big thanks for help Serr...
Arpegia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2017, 02:02 PM   #9
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,557
Default

There's a little square box next to the words "Request sample rate" & "Request block size". You click on it to turn it on. You see a graphic check mark or hash mark (like you might make on a grocery list as you check off items) when you click it on. Click it again and the mark goes away to turn it off.

1st pic: Control of both sample rate and block size enabled in Reaper. Reaper sets the connected interface(s) to 96k and the block size to 1024 samples.

2nd pic: Control of sample rate enabled in Reaper but block size disabled. Reaper will ignore the 1024 samples value entered there and assume you will control this with different software.

3rd pic: Both disabled in Reaper. Reaper will ignore these values and assume you will control both with different software.

If you disable these controls in Reaper but never control them with different software, they will default to... something... not sure what though.

Reaper will run with whatever you tell it to do. It can be a big CPU hit if this is set wrong though. This gets important for low latency live sound work or CPU intensive projects.

Last edited by serr; 05-23-2021 at 04:02 PM.
serr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2017, 02:28 PM   #10
Arpegia
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Paris-Bruxelles
Posts: 1,266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
There's a little square box next to the words "Request sample rate" & "Request block size". You click on it to turn it on. You see a graphic check mark or hash mark (like you might make on a grocery list as you check off items) when you click it on. Click it again and the mark goes away to turn it off.

1st pic: Control of both sample rate and block size enabled in Reaper. Reaper sets the connected interface(s) to 96k and the block size to 1024 samples.

2nd pic: Control of sample rate enabled in Reaper but block size disabled. Reaper will ignore the 1024 samples value entered there and assume you will control this with different software.

3rd pic: Both disabled in Reaper. Reaper will ignore these values and assume you will control both with different software.

If you disable these controls in Reaper but never control them with different software, they will default to... something... not sure what though.

Reaper will run with whatever you tell it to do. It can be a big CPU hit if this is set wrong though. This gets important for low latency live sound work or CPU intensive projects.
OK, OK, I understand now what you call: "Little Square Box" and of coarse, I know how important is to switch it on.

And I am aware now about the Anticipative FX issue, and I am going to do some new tests. I will let you know if it's better...
Thanks again :-)
Arpegia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2017, 03:56 PM   #11
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,557
Default

I wish you good luck with all that!

It sounds like you are on top of the controls and all. I asked the first obvious questions there.

Again, the MIDI instrument plugins are not in my area of knowledge. If there are some setup preferences specific to that, a MIDI expert will have to join the conversation.

I always mention the AfxP settings as a clue. I had a scare a few years ago where it seemed like Reaper was maxing out. It made no sense because the CPU use was still low and this computer is outrageous. I discovered that Universal Audio and many Waves plugins do not like AfxP. It was like snapping your fingers and then everything just worked. I can have hundreds of tracks and plugins running now and the computer just basically idles.

It gets a little weird to troubleshoot too. For example, I can have some of those incompatible plugins running in a tiny project (eg. 40 tracks) without disabling AfxP on those tracks and Reaper acts like nothing is wrong. Reaper has to get to some point where it is working a little harder (perhaps the point where AfxP activates) and THEN the settings become important!
serr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 12:46 AM   #12
vanhaze
Human being with feelings
 
vanhaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
Default

As always, thank you serr !

As already stated in another thread, as much i like the powerful Reaper unique DAW feature Anticipative processing, there really should be a plugin black list that lists all plugins that are not compatible with AP.

I read so many threads here from people that are stunned: running just a small Reaper Project and already get cpu overload and thus tearing audio.
These people are mostly not aware of the fact that they are maybe/problaby using plugins that are not compatible with AP, leading to early overload.

Furthermore, if they ARE aware of this, then they come into the process of trial and error: de-activating AP for plugins they use in the Reaper Project which is overloading and then look if the overload disappears.
This is utterly cumbersome and annoying.

IMHO, Cockos should make more and clearer attention to (beginning) Reaper users, that how AP is setup for these users including a AP plugin blacklist, can be very vital for how a Reaper Project performs.

You state that UAD and Waves plugins don't like AP.
For instance, is that both on Windows and on Mac..or only OS specific ?!

Maybe we can make a sticky thread for making a plugin blacklist that contains even more plugins that don't like AP, tested by users who contribute to the sticky.

But ideally, (i know this is Utopia), you should get a warning in Reaper, when you insert a plugin that is not AP compatible, so that you are advised to disable AP for the track on which the plugin is inserted.

Just my 2 cents ..
__________________
Macbook Pro INTEL | Reaper, always latest version | OSX Ventura | Presonus Studio 24c
My Reaper Tips&Tricks YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/vanhaze2000/playlists
vanhaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 03:45 AM   #13
Judders
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,044
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
That statement surely must be twisted with some miscommunication. Apple would never suggest that their cursory built-in audio interface would outperform a professional audio interface made for studio or live sound work.
I believe the recommendation is for Core Audio drivers, rather than 3rd party ones. Nothing to do with the interface per se.

How long ago did you test the Waves plugins? I've not noticed problems with them and AfxP since REAPER version 4.x.
Judders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 04:33 AM   #14
Vasily
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Ukraine
Posts: 150
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arpegia View Post
12 Cores
40 track instruments with Kontakt
60 AU/VST Plugin
that's quite heavy. suggestions:
1. re-use kontakt instances (not 40, but 3 instances with multiple instruments)
2. freeze your kontakt tracks (this will make more effect than the first suggestion)
Vasily is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 02:23 PM   #15
Arpegia
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Paris-Bruxelles
Posts: 1,266
Default I found something...

Hello Folks...

One of my problems seems to come from my Midi interface. (I use internal Core Audio for audio optical output)
but for the midi, I use the Digid 003 Rack (because from time to time I need to work with Protools ).

And the AvidDriver is CPU Greedy. Then, when I mix, I switch it off and it helps.

Other question : (Maybe some of you have the same issue). When I compose with 512 buffer, after 30 or 40 minutes, I start to have more drop and clic... Then I save, quit, and reload.. and It's better...

Is anybody know why ?
__________________
MAC user www.arpegiamusic.com www.cyrilorcel.com

Last edited by Arpegia; 08-02-2017 at 08:57 PM.
Arpegia is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.