Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER Q&A, Tips, Tricks and Howto

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-06-2019, 01:59 AM   #41
Breeder
Human being with feelings
 
Breeder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,436
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
^^ This is quite clever.
Hey, while you're here. I see you added high precision mode at some point to the code.

What was the problem in the first case? All can see in code is that it changes the amount of samples taken from REAPER? If high precision mode fixes something here, why not just use it as default and remove the option from the menus completely? It doesn't seem that much slower here.
Breeder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2019, 06:50 AM   #42
nofish
Human being with feelings
 
nofish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 12,096
Default

You can read about it here, some of the 1770-4 test files didn't pass in normal mode but do in high precision mode.

The explaination is here.

As that's a cornercase imo (very short files with offsetted audio blocks) I added is as additional high precision mode and not as default, as in majority normal mode works just fine.

(Besides things like generate envelope, go to max. short term / momentary don't work correctly in high precision mode and would need a code rewrite.)

These are the EBU testfiles that are supposed to check out with -23.0 max. momentary:


Last edited by nofish; 04-06-2019 at 07:06 AM.
nofish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2019, 07:21 AM   #43
Breeder
Human being with feelings
 
Breeder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,436
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
You can read about it here, some of the 1770-4 test files didn't pass in normal mode but do in high precision mode.

The explaination is here.

As that's a cornercase imo (very short files with offsetted audio blocks) I added is as additional high precision mode and not as default, as in majority normal mode works just fine.

(Besides things like generate envelope, go to max. short term / momentary don't work correctly in high precision mode and would need a code rewrite.)

These are the EBU testfiles that are supposed to check out with -23.0 max. momentary:

Thanks for a prompt answer - I did notice different results with some other files too...they weren't short (I think they were a few seconds long). That's why I posted in the first place

Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
(Besides things like generate envelope, go to max. short term / momentary don't work correctly in high precision mode and would need a code rewrite.)
Ok, this is good to know cause one wouldn't expect it. I thought analyse code simply wrote results to a class member variable so if working with high precision mode, that result should be used throughout the entire code.

Can you just explain for future reference what happens when one has high precision mode turned on with these things (go to max. short term, envelope etc...)?
Breeder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2019, 07:34 AM   #44
nofish
Human being with feelings
 
nofish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 12,096
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Breeder View Post
Ok, this is good to know cause one wouldn't expect it. I thought analyse code simply wrote results to a class member variable so if working with high precision mode, that result should be used throughout the entire code.
Thing is in 'normal' mode you took a measurement every 3 sec. / 400 ms for short-term / momentary and used these results for creating the graph and go to short-term / momentary positions, the high precision mode uses overlap measuring (much shorter buffer) so this approach would break.

Quote:
Can you just explain for future reference what happens when one has high precision mode turned on with these things (go to max. short term, envelope etc...)?
https://github.com/reaper-oss/sws/issues/1120



These features are disabled when using high precision mode in next SWS version (for now).

Last edited by nofish; 04-06-2019 at 07:40 AM.
nofish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2019, 11:17 AM   #45
Breeder
Human being with feelings
 
Breeder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,436
Default

Awesome, thanks man
Breeder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2019, 05:21 PM   #46
Handyman
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 15
Default

Recently, whenever I use SWS Loudness “Go to maximum short-term” and “Go to maximum momentary” it highlights areas beyond the end of my audio tracks, where there is no audio at all.

Any idea how I can reset this, and make it work properly again?
Handyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2019, 06:32 AM   #47
nofish
Human being with feelings
 
nofish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 12,096
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
Recently, whenever I use SWS Loudness “Go to maximum short-term” and “Go to maximum momentary” it highlights areas beyond the end of my audio tracks, where there is no audio at all.

Any idea how I can reset this, and make it work properly again?
Sorry, just saw this now.
There's a bug in current SWS (v2.10.0 #1) when analyzing with high precision mode on and creating graphs / going to max. short-term / momentary.

So for now, turning high precision mode off for analyzing should fix.

Sidenote:
There's currently also another bug which could lead to a crash when analyzing items shorter than 3 seconds (fixed for next SWS version).
nofish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2019, 07:28 PM   #48
Handyman
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
Sorry, just saw this now.
There's a bug in current SWS (v2.10.0 #1) when analyzing with high precision mode on and creating graphs / going to max. short-term / momentary.

So for now, turning high precision mode off for analyzing should fix.
Thank you. Turning off high precision mode worked!
Handyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2021, 05:08 AM   #49
PelPix
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 26
Default

Breeder,

I'm using this to even out loudness between voice over clips in a project I'm working on, and I'm running into inconsistent loudness. I used to have the same problem in iZotope RX, so it's just inherent in the math, but interestingly enough they just rolled out a fix for this in RX 8: "Program loudness gate." It gates the loudness calculation (I.E. it discards parts of the clips that are too quiet (in momentary loudness) from the loudness calculation.) This is way more useful for program material that consists entirely of voice!

Apparently this is part of the new set of revisions to the B.S1770 standard

Documentation:
https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r...0-I!!PDF-E.pdf

Basically signal below -70 LKFS momentary and over 10 LU below a rolling average of the momentary loudness (short-term maybe?) are discarded from the loudness integration.

Any chance you could implement this too?

Thank you for all your hard work!

Edit:

It looks to already be implemented. Interesting...I wonder why I'm getting inconsistent loudness depending on the amount of silence in clips?

Last edited by PelPix; 03-17-2021 at 05:27 AM.
PelPix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2021, 07:09 AM   #50
nofish
Human being with feelings
 
nofish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 12,096
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PelPix View Post
It looks to already be implemented. Interesting...I wonder why I'm getting inconsistent loudness depending on the amount of silence in clips?
Yes, current SWS Loudness measurement should be ITU-R BS.1770-4 compliant (including gating).

So your issue lies somewhere else I'd assume.
Make sure you use latest SWS version (v2.12.1 #3 currently) as there have been fixes to SWS Loudness measurement.
Then if you happen to analyze rather short files you can try to enable 'high precision mode' (see https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....98#post2118098).

If issue still persists please open a new issue on the SWS tracker, ideally with steps (test project) to reproduce.
https://github.com/reaper-oss/sws/issues
nofish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2021, 08:25 AM   #51
djabthrash
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Paris (France)
Posts: 155
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kihoalu View Post
(...)

Are the "momentary" and "short term" measurements RMS?
and, if so, what are the RMS time intervals for each?(...)
+1

(been using SWS loudness during gain-staging to measure peaks, but realized i should also look out for RMS)
djabthrash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2021, 10:54 AM   #52
nofish
Human being with feelings
 
nofish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 12,096
Default

It's described in ebu tech3341 doc:

Quote:
The momentary loudness uses a sliding rectangular time window of length 0.4 s. The measurement is not gated.
The short-term loudness uses a sliding rectangular time window of length 3 s. The measurement is not gated.
So yes, it's basically RMS calculation + the Loudness weighting filtering (described in ITU-R BS.1770-4).
nofish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2021, 11:00 AM   #53
djabthrash
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Paris (France)
Posts: 155
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
It's described in ebu tech3341 doc:



So yes, it's basically RMS calculation + the Loudness weighting filtering (described in ITU-R BS.1770-4).
Thank you !

After some more thought and research, i think i'll be better off adjusting my levels by looking at the meter visually, and then using SWS loudness on all my tracks simultaneously to make sure they don't peak too high (and also have a look at the "RMS"-ish value in SWS loudness, which won't hurt).
djabthrash is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.