Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER General Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-29-2018, 10:30 AM   #1
paat
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 225
Default Can I send a program change before a MIDI note?

I want to send a program change event to affect a MIDI note. They're programmed at the same time, at the start of the MIDI clip.

REAPER seems to send the program change event after it plays the MIDI note, so the PC event doesn't actually affect that note.

Can I get REAPER to send the PC before it sends the MIDI note?

paat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 10:33 AM   #2
DarkStar
Human being with feelings
 
DarkStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
Default

Yes, but you need to nudge the PC slightly earlier or the note slightly later - turn off Snap to do so (or press Shift while you drag the event).

Or edit the position directly in the Event List.
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
DarkStar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 11:35 AM   #3
paat
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 225
Default

hrm interesting it seems as though the PC does come before the note in the event list.



So I guess either REAPER sends the PC after the MIDI note regardless of its index in the event list, or perhaps the plugin (Redux) is interpreting the events in a weird way.

I don't think I can nudge the PC event prior to the start of the clip, can I? Well, I tried it and it didn't work.

This seems like a weird implementation to me. If I want to make the PC happen before the MIDI note, I have to nudge the MIDI note later – and have it not be quantized. But if the PC was sent _before_ the MIDI data, then it would be trivial to nudge the PC later and have it be processed after the note.
paat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 12:05 PM   #4
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
Default

Program changes ARE supposed to be sent before note events even if they occupy the same MIDI tick. It's the norm.
EvilDragon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 12:16 PM   #5
Michael AD
Human being with feelings
 
Michael AD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Hackensack
Posts: 347
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paat View Post

I don't think I can nudge the PC event prior to the start of the clip, can I? Well, I tried it and it didn't work.

This seems like a weird implementation to me. If I want to make the PC happen before the MIDI note, I have to nudge the MIDI note later – and have it not be quantized. But if the PC was sent _before_ the MIDI data, then it would be trivial to nudge the PC later and have it be processed after the note.
I think the problem here is that you are at the very beginning of the tune. If you put a blank measure before the actual start of the tune then you have room to put the program change before the first note.
Michael AD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 12:40 PM   #6
paat
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 225
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Program changes ARE supposed to be sent before note events even if they occupy the same MIDI tick. It's the norm.
Ah interesting. I wonder if the behavior I'm seeing then is just how Redux interprets the events? I tried a different plugin that supports PC (Falcon, via Program Change Switcher script) and it behaves how I'd expect it to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael AD View Post
I think the problem here is that you are at the very beginning of the tune. If you put a blank measure before the actual start of the tune then you have room to put the program change before the first note.
Well, I'd have to extend the MIDI clip to be a bit longer in front, right? And if I play from the start of the measure, the PC event will be missed.

I think it may be an issue with Redux specifically.
paat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2018, 02:17 PM   #7
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paat View Post
Well, I'd have to extend the MIDI clip to be a bit longer in front, right? And if I play from the start of the measure, the PC event will be missed.
Yes, and no. Program change events should be chased, just like CCs, IIRC.
EvilDragon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2018, 12:45 AM   #8
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
Default

have you tried changing the position by a few MIDI ticks? i.e. make the bank select happen at 1.1.05 then the PC at 1.1.10 followed by the note at say, 1.1.20? A few ticks will make little or no difference to the sound timing but may be enough to sort your issue out.
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2018, 05:50 AM   #9
uksnowy
Human being with feelings
 
uksnowy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 6950 DK
Posts: 659
Default

Software synths change program reasonably quickly that they can be in the same block or MIDI part as the notes as long as they are the first command.

I have found trouble with hardware synths though, not mentioning names. I have learnt to put my PC change in a dedicated MIDI Part and send it a beat or two in advance.
__________________
REAPING HAVOC SINCE 2008
uksnowy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2018, 06:39 AM   #10
Michael AD
Human being with feelings
 
Michael AD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Hackensack
Posts: 347
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paat View Post

Well, I'd have to extend the MIDI clip to be a bit longer in front, right? And if I play from the start of the measure, the PC event will be missed.
Try this:
1) Presuming this is the first measure of the tune, insert a blank measure before the first measure. If it's not the first measure then just continue with the next step.

2) Right-click on the midi clip and select Item Properties. Uncheck the box marked Loop Source and hit Apply, then OK.

3) If you have snap-to-grid on, then turn it off by hitting S. Now place the cursor on the middle left side of the clip and it will change to a double-sided arrow. Drag that icon to the left a bit and the clip will now have extended it's size on the left.

4) Double click on the clip to enter the Midi editor and now you have room in the clip to place the PC before the first note.
Michael AD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.