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08-29-2018, 10:30 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 225
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Can I send a program change before a MIDI note?
I want to send a program change event to affect a MIDI note. They're programmed at the same time, at the start of the MIDI clip.
REAPER seems to send the program change event after it plays the MIDI note, so the PC event doesn't actually affect that note.
Can I get REAPER to send the PC before it sends the MIDI note?
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08-29-2018, 10:33 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
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Yes, but you need to nudge the PC slightly earlier or the note slightly later - turn off Snap to do so (or press Shift while you drag the event).
Or edit the position directly in the Event List.
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08-29-2018, 11:35 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 225
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hrm interesting it seems as though the PC does come before the note in the event list.
So I guess either REAPER sends the PC after the MIDI note regardless of its index in the event list, or perhaps the plugin (Redux) is interpreting the events in a weird way.
I don't think I can nudge the PC event prior to the start of the clip, can I? Well, I tried it and it didn't work.
This seems like a weird implementation to me. If I want to make the PC happen before the MIDI note, I have to nudge the MIDI note later – and have it not be quantized. But if the PC was sent _before_ the MIDI data, then it would be trivial to nudge the PC later and have it be processed after the note.
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08-29-2018, 12:05 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Program changes ARE supposed to be sent before note events even if they occupy the same MIDI tick. It's the norm.
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08-29-2018, 12:16 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Hackensack
Posts: 347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paat
I don't think I can nudge the PC event prior to the start of the clip, can I? Well, I tried it and it didn't work.
This seems like a weird implementation to me. If I want to make the PC happen before the MIDI note, I have to nudge the MIDI note later – and have it not be quantized. But if the PC was sent _before_ the MIDI data, then it would be trivial to nudge the PC later and have it be processed after the note.
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I think the problem here is that you are at the very beginning of the tune. If you put a blank measure before the actual start of the tune then you have room to put the program change before the first note.
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08-29-2018, 12:40 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Program changes ARE supposed to be sent before note events even if they occupy the same MIDI tick. It's the norm.
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Ah interesting. I wonder if the behavior I'm seeing then is just how Redux interprets the events? I tried a different plugin that supports PC (Falcon, via Program Change Switcher script) and it behaves how I'd expect it to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael AD
I think the problem here is that you are at the very beginning of the tune. If you put a blank measure before the actual start of the tune then you have room to put the program change before the first note.
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Well, I'd have to extend the MIDI clip to be a bit longer in front, right? And if I play from the start of the measure, the PC event will be missed.
I think it may be an issue with Redux specifically.
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08-29-2018, 02:17 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paat
Well, I'd have to extend the MIDI clip to be a bit longer in front, right? And if I play from the start of the measure, the PC event will be missed.
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Yes, and no. Program change events should be chased, just like CCs, IIRC.
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08-30-2018, 12:45 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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have you tried changing the position by a few MIDI ticks? i.e. make the bank select happen at 1.1.05 then the PC at 1.1.10 followed by the note at say, 1.1.20? A few ticks will make little or no difference to the sound timing but may be enough to sort your issue out.
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais
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08-30-2018, 05:50 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 6950 DK
Posts: 659
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Software synths change program reasonably quickly that they can be in the same block or MIDI part as the notes as long as they are the first command.
I have found trouble with hardware synths though, not mentioning names. I have learnt to put my PC change in a dedicated MIDI Part and send it a beat or two in advance.
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REAPING HAVOC SINCE 2008
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08-30-2018, 06:39 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Hackensack
Posts: 347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paat
Well, I'd have to extend the MIDI clip to be a bit longer in front, right? And if I play from the start of the measure, the PC event will be missed.
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Try this:
1) Presuming this is the first measure of the tune, insert a blank measure before the first measure. If it's not the first measure then just continue with the next step.
2) Right-click on the midi clip and select Item Properties. Uncheck the box marked Loop Source and hit Apply, then OK.
3) If you have snap-to-grid on, then turn it off by hitting S. Now place the cursor on the middle left side of the clip and it will change to a double-sided arrow. Drag that icon to the left a bit and the clip will now have extended it's size on the left.
4) Double click on the clip to enter the Midi editor and now you have room in the clip to place the PC before the first note.
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