Old 03-30-2013, 06:37 AM   #1
DarkStar
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Default Default layouts: where from?

In the various Layouts sub-menus there is a choice to select "Default layout" (or "Global default layout", bit I think that that is the same thing, just a naming inconsistency).

Where does Reaper get that definition from? As far as I can see it is not the statements in my rtconfig.txt file that are not within a "Layout" ... "EndLayout" group. Nor is it the statements in the default_layouts.txt file.

Is it some alchemical combination of them both?

When I create a new track I get an odd layout (which is the "default", I presume) and cannot work out how / where it is defined.

---------------------------
Also, in default_layouts.txt there seem to be some nested layouts (see Layout "Width control, pan on top"). How do they work?
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Old 03-30-2013, 09:27 AM   #2
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thanks for this question DS...
I have what I think is the same or similar problem with my crazy CIRCUS theme. The theme is an extensive mod of one of the first WT default themes for V4.

I have a set of 'layouts' for both the tcp and mixer that include colored sliders. The reason is that the slider color matches with the set of SWS colors I use.

As far as I can understand, when I use those layouts, they 'should' draw upon all the WALTER for TCP and MCP defaults and then just swap the sliders. And that IS what I see happen when I use them.

The problem comes if I use 'default'... then the position of the various buttons, etc. get changed to a look I do NOT want.

Very strange.

My 'live with it' solution has been to make track templates 1-17, that include both the TCP and MCP with SWS colors and with the matching color slider layout. I have these track templates listed in the TCP menu and just use them to load a new track. [way faster than setting the default 'new track' with both a TCP and MCP layout.

I further think it would be even mo'betta if Reaper had a built in way to have layouts that automatically combined both TCP and MCP layouts. [which is what I am fudging with my track templates, you see?]

Also, I did at one time document a bug in WALTER layouts:

If I recall it was that the layouts menu will not show more than [I think] 32 layouts for MCP... any more that you may have get left out of the menu.

OK... I'm watching this thread.
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Old 03-30-2013, 10:43 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
thanks for this question DS...
You're welcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
I further think it would be even mo'betta if Reaper had a built in way to have layouts that automatically combined both TCP and MCP layouts. [which is what I am fudging with my track templates, you see?]
... or if we had a good understanding of how the default layouts are derived.

Quote:
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If I recall it was that the layouts menu will not show more than [I think] 32 layouts for MCP... any more that you may have get left out of the menu.
... Have you looked at Apollo 4 recently? witti must have gone way past 32 by now.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:07 AM   #4
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just checked Apollo 4... nope not even close!

I did a mod of Imperial some time back, that included my personal obsession with being able to have color sliders that match each of my 16+2 [B & W] SWS colors. That is where I discovered this 'flaw' in reaper's handling of layouts in the menu.

It drove me NUTZ until I proved it was a flaw in reaper and not in my rtconfig code. I really don't recall if it was a limit of 31 or 32 or what... but do recall that it has a limit in the MCP menu and that that limit is not found in the TCP menu!

I'm sure I can go dig up that theme from my old pc if you want to see the proof.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:08 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
Where does Reaper get that definition from? As far as I can see it is not the statements in my rtconfig.txt file that are not within a "Layout" ... "EndLayout" group.
They are defined by the set of 'set mcp/tcp/etc. *' commands that are not wrapped with 'Layout ... EndLayout'. They'll typically be (should be) the first set of statements that you see for a given context, when reading from the beginning of an rtconfig file (they are the top level, and layouts inherit from them).

From here, read the 'Commands' and 'Layouts' sections.

Last edited by timlloyd; 03-30-2013 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:12 AM   #6
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^^^^
That's what I had thought, but it's not what I am getting here.

------------------
@hopi,
Are you sure? 44 here (plus some further down the menu):
https://i.imgur.com/hPEzrSQ.png
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:09 PM   #7
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and not what I get either...
but yes, it IS what I would expect to get.

DS... exactly which Apollo are you using?

also... as I dbl check, I think it might be in the TCP layout where the limit of the menu happens.. It was quite a time ago when I ran into this and I'm trying to back track the evidence now.
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Old 03-30-2013, 04:15 PM   #8
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"Apollo 4 mod DS"

It's a significantly modified version of an early release of Apollo 4 - it's evolving (i.e. not complete) and not released.
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Old 03-30-2013, 06:42 PM   #9
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ah OK since I don't find that on the stash, I assume it is your mod of Apollo 4?

anyway.. I don't mean to digress from the main point of the post.
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:08 AM   #10
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Could you upload the rtconfig.txt file?
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:30 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
... Have you looked at Apollo 4 recently? witti must have gone way past 32 by now.
(there was a time when i had about 45 mcp layouts. But i was never really satisfied with that version, so i created a new one, deleting the old one from stash. my newest apollo mods have a max of 25 mcp layouts now.)


Edit:
I think

Reaper's internal layout system (pre v4) is overwritten
-by the default_layouts.txt file in the plugins folder, when the theme has no rtconfig file (like the Classic_4.x theme), or the theme has pre v4 rtconfig file.
-by the rtconfig file in the ReaperThemeZip file with at least one defined default layout for the tcp/mastertcp/envcp/mcp/mastermcp/transport.

It can look like this:

Layout ""
clear.tcp
...
...
...
EndLayout

or just

clear.tcp
...
...
...

where all the additional layouts will look like this

Layout "xyz" "subfolder images (optional)"
with or without clear.tcp
...
...
...
EndLayout


If you are creating new layouts, i would suggest to start with

Layout "xyz"
clear.tcp
EndLayout

to start with a clean layout and then place your buttons, etc.

Last edited by witti; 03-31-2013 at 06:24 AM.
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:13 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd View Post
Could you upload the rtconfig.txt file?
Tim... which one are you asking for?
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:20 AM   #13
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also... that discussion I've mentioned about reaper not showing all layouts in the menu, is for the TCP layouts IF you have more than 31-32 layouts in the rtconfig for the TCP.

In the menu for MCP it will show more than 32 OK.

I don't know why this is different between the MCP and TCP layout menus in Reaper... I would expect them to be the same [bug?]

I also don't see why there should be ANY limit in either layout menu as to the number of layouts we can have.

I think you can test this with partly fake rtconfig file by just makings about 40 layouts [even if they are bogus] for both MCP and TCP and give them numbers and see how many actually display in the menus. An example would be to just have each layout change only the slider color.
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Old 04-01-2013, 04:49 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd View Post
Could you upload the rtconfig.txt file?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
Tim... which one are you asking for?
Tim meant mine, I think. Not to worry - I've tracked it down. User error.

Anyway, how about that nested Layout in default_layouts.txt? How does that work?
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:23 AM   #15
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please say more about the nested layouts DS. I don't think I know about that.
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:08 AM   #16
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Sorry, I can't say any more - I don't know how they work. Or if they work. Or if it's just a typo in the file.
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:42 AM   #17
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oh... ok well after a little dbl checking on my version of this problem, ... not getting the default layout to be what I wanted or expected, ..but having one of my layouts that IS the default I do want... I realized in the screen sets and layouts.. in the layouts tab, I can just specify the default I actually want for both tcp and mcp...

So now, without touching the rtconfig file, it does exactly what I wanted.

This still leaves the 'real' question hanging, but... better than nothing.
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