Pre-Record during Count-Off (NOT speaking of Pre-Roll)

[Thonex]

Hi Justin and co,

Hoping this is an easy one

One critical feature missing from Reaper for anyone doing orchestral (or any recordings where there are tempo changes) is the ability to record during the Count-Off (NOT to be confused with Pre-Roll). Honestly, this should also be available in MIDI too.

Currently, there is no way to record during the Count-Off to capture players who may come in early… or who may be playing a lead-in note or an anticipation. In reaper, you would have to have pre-roll engaged. The problem with pre-roll is if there is a different tempo in the previous measure, all the players will coming at the wrong tempo on the downbeat of the punch-in measure.

Nuendo/Cubase have a simple record buffer in seconds and using it in conjunction with a count-in solves all these issues.

Having done this for 20+ years… it’s clear to me this count-off pre-record amount should be in seconds or ms, NOT tempo based. The benefits are that each recording will have the same amount of pre-record no matter what meter or tempo and makes comping and editing in other DAWs as well as Reaper MUCH easier since all the recordings have the exact same amount of pre-record.

I would also assume it’s easier to implement (coding-wise) if the pre-record buffer is always the same (fixed) time-based amount (not tempo or meter dependent).

Hoping this is possible and easy to implement!

Thanks for an already great DAW!

(this is a copy from an old thread in the wrong place -- putting it in the appropriate FR forum).

[_Stevie_]

Chiming in here, as I did on the original post :P
Huge +1 for this FR!

[Klangfarben]

Wow, yeah, this is really necessary. So many times during orchestral recording we need to do this, but without being able to record during the count-in bar makes Reaper kind of unusable for this because of the following:

1) Sometimes players come in early. Thus the entrance gets cut off (I'm looking at you Brass...)

2) You can't crossfade from the previous measure into the new entrance. This is CRITICAL because there is no way to make that transition work.

3) Even if everyone comes in at the exact right spot, it will still sound unnatural because the air in the room moves before you hear the note and that isn't going to be all recorded.

4) As Thonex stated, although pre-roll DOES record during the pre-roll measure (except for midi cough cough), if the pre-roll measure is a different tempo it can't be used as a substitute to count-in as the count-in would be a different tempo than the measure the players are starting in which would really throw them off.

To me, this almost seems like a bug that the count-in bar isn't buffered. You always need the area slightly before record start to be buffered for the above reasons. In most cases you can just start recording a measure or two early and everything is good. But in this case, when you need to catch a specific measure and need clicks at the new tempo, there is no good alternative especially when you need to move quickly on the fly.

[EvilDragon]

Fully agreed. And seems easy to support this.

[bFooz]

+1 definitely needed. I bumped into this problem last week trying to sort out how would I record an orchestra.

[Thonex]

Bumping this since the Dev team seems to have their head in playback and record modes.

[pepe44]

+100 for this. in pro tools as long you have input monitor enabled you can grab all recorded material before you hit record, its so handy for some previous audio that gets in recorded.

[Thonex]

Since the Devs are working on 6.... I was really hoping they would address this.

Bump.

[_Stevie_]

Yeah, me too. Such an essential feature. +1

[Thonex]

Weekend Bump... since Devs are working on 6 pre-releases

[Klangfarben]

+1 Pretty please?

[The-Zeronaut]

+1 100% agree

[srdmusic]

+1 bump

[Swi]

+1

Nuendo adds an invisible second that will also be included in any export of said audio file. Having the invisible second that you can roll out the front end of the item to get any of that good stuff is great but keep the render items to just what is visible as it is now please.

Make it great!

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by Swi

+1

Nuendo adds an invisible second that will also be included in any export of said audio file. Having the invisible second that you can roll out the front end of the item to get any of that good stuff is great but keep the render items to just what is visible as it is now please.

Make it great!

Thanks for the support!!

Exactly. That is what I was referring to when I posted this above:

Originally Posted by Thonex

Nuendo/Cubase have a simple record buffer in seconds and using it in conjunction with a count-in solves all these issues.

Having done this for 20+ years… it’s clear to me this count-off pre-record amount should be in seconds or ms, NOT tempo based. The benefits are that each recording will have the same amount of pre-record no matter what meter or tempo and makes comping and editing in other DAWs as well as Reaper MUCH easier since all the recordings have the exact same amount of pre-record.

I would also assume it’s easier to implement (coding-wise) if the pre-record buffer is always the same (fixed) time-based amount (not tempo or meter dependent).

[Birdy]

Definitely no reason for not having it.
I’ve requested this before myself.

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by Birdy

Definitely no reason for not having it.
I’ve requested this before myself.

Having just completed a 2 week orchestral session... I cannot tell you how much I needed this feature. The session would have run so much smother with this feature. I think I'll have to make a detailed video as to why this is so necessary. Not sure people realize what an omission this is.

[_Stevie_]

Yes, please definitely do that. I think it would help a great deal to understand.

[randbrown]

Please add this! The "pre-roll" is helpful for straight tempo/time signatures, but I do a lot of mixed time signatures and tempos. A count-in is much better to nail a part where there is a time/tempo change, and it would be super helpful to pick up that beginning transient attack or lead-in note that comes immediately before the cursor position.

[Gianfini]

big +1 for me

[rupendarv]

+1

[Thonex]

Bumping this since the Devs seem to be working on MIDI record features at the moment.

Cheers,

Andrew K

[Daodan]

+1.

[skylar_battles]

+1

[juan_r]

Now that MIDI retroactive record is on the table, maybe at least the MIDI side of things could be fixed. And, speaking shamelessly, it could be a useful option for both precount and preroll.

As it is now, not even MIDI monitoring is possible before the actual recording starts

As for audio, it's possibly even more important. I'm sure it can be done if the devs turn their attention to it.

Here's a post from me on the joys of monitoring before recording - be it preroll or precount - but that still isn't a FR. On the other hand, this thread is one, and I'm supporting it.

+1

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by juan_r

As for audio, it's possibly even more important. I'm sure it can be done if the devs turn their attention to it.

Here's a post from me on the joys of monitoring before recording - be it preroll or precount - but that still isn't a FR. On the other hand, this thread is one, and I'm supporting it.

+1

Agreed... I think it may be even more important for audio... when trying to punch-in on the downbeat of a measure with a tempo change. That happens all the time in scores.

Cheers,

Andrew K

[Thonex]

I'm bumping this from years ago... since I know others are posting threads about this. Hopefully, this gets added. I still sorely miss this feature.

[lb0]

Another bump and +1 - is almost essential in many situations.

[spinal]

+1

[skylar_battles]

+1

[smandrap]

+1000

[sysph]

+1
A much-needed feature. Unlike pre-roll, count-in takes into account the tempo and meter settings of the recorded passage. Performer entrance a fraction of a second before the start of recording is the norm. Not being able to record during count-in is a huge drawback.

[R.Cato]

+1 from my side as well

[amagalma]

Originally Posted by sysph

+1
A much-needed feature. Unlike pre-roll, count-in takes into account the tempo and meter settings of the recorded passage. Performer entrance a fraction of a second before the start of recording is the norm. Not being able to record during count-in is a huge drawback.

+1

[Klangfarben]

Lotta +1s here devs. Just saying...

[Nip]

Cubase call it retrospective recording, which works even when recording is not running, but armed for recording I presume.

You just set a buffer how large you want it to capture what you play.

At least related to what OP+supporters wish for.

Cubase though has the disadvantage not to be able to play overlapping clips, it always crossfade. As I recall Reaper have a setting to play all clips on track, as does Sonar/Cakewalk.

Cubase had some good thinking though regarding pre-roll, that you could get metronome to run tempo and time signature from the spot to record, not where you are on timeline. So you are in time when recording start.

I had some strange fenomena using retrospective though when having cursor close to start of timeline, and buffer were bigger than that distance. It did not know how to handle events before time zero, so it displaced entire clip into timeline way off time.

Quite an undertaking for devs to handle this, but useful for sure.
- but with some setting whether to blend overlapping or not, maybe.

[audiobone]

Is this the same as a pre-record buffer? It seems pretty obvious to have this in ram if the record monitoring is engaged. At the very least several seconds in case someone improvises a pickup to the downbeat.

+1

[smandrap]

Desperately bumping this, but with a twist.

The midi notes ARE RECORDED during count in. Using MIDI: Insert recent retroactively recorded MIDI for armed tracks inserts the notes recorded during the count in also. Problem is that they are inserted in the wrong position starting from the point where the recording started (not the count in, but at edit cursor).

This is very uncomfortable. We should be able to hear both the count in AND THE RECORD ARMED INSTRUMENT. Recording right at tempo changes is very uncomfortable otherwise, as currently we have two options:

• Record count in without hearing
• delete the recording
• insert retroactive recording
• Nudge it back by the count in measures

Or:

• Make a click source
• set snap offset 1 bar after
• uncheck Follow proect tempo
• set it at the right spot
• solo the click source and the currently recorded instrument

Both of which are incredibly cumbersome.

Even more aggravating is that this also applies to Audio, which DOESN'T have retrospective recording.So Please devs, give us the ability to hear/record the currently armed tracks during count in. It's super important.

EDIT: Actually there is no twist. I started writing the post, thought i found a workaround for a moment and forgot deleting the twist part. Please Please devs

[juan_r]

+1

Bumping more than a year after chiming in.

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by juan_r

+1

Bumping more than a year after chiming in.

Me too...