Old 02-06-2020, 11:01 AM   #1
pipelineaudio
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Default Reverb.com and magical mic preamp claims

https://youtu.be/dsItBtRnmjA?t=85

Its the unsinkable rubber duck

Save your ducats for bass traps!
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Old 02-06-2020, 12:19 PM   #2
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Redacted

I thought my reply was valid in a forum called:
Recording Technologies and Techniques
Discuss what technologies you use/want to use/should use for recording, and how to get them to do what you want.

The nastiness I've received tells me otherwise.

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Old 02-06-2020, 12:34 PM   #3
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My favorite part is pipelineaudio enjoying a snack during the broadcast!
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Old 02-06-2020, 01:02 PM   #4
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My favorite part is pipelineaudio enjoying a snack during the broadcast!
The high end is too crispy. Everyone knows that Neve preamps are best for sandwiches.
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Old 02-06-2020, 01:20 PM   #5
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I just advised someone at my studio that they did not have any reason to get a 500 series lunchbox like mine from an audio quality perspective - my 12 "premium" pre's do have galvanic isolation though (transformers), and almost every part of general build quality and materials is better than my RME UFX FWIW.

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Why on earth would you want to saturate a signal after the high-end has been rolled off by the cab?
Take one of your guitar tracks, throw JS: Saturation on it? Especially if a clean track - that's not really something to debate though because it's just taste - there are 1000s of threads about doing exactly that and all over the place and it's all over almost every type of track in most modern music.

So if saturation can be achieved via pre (because that isn't going to happen unless you can control the output of the pre to actually get saturation), it's as valid there as anywhere else.

EDIT: Actually I thought you were another poster, I misread hence the guitar track reference but I'll leave it as-is after going through all the trouble to type it.
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Old 02-06-2020, 02:09 PM   #6
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Redacted

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Old 02-06-2020, 02:38 PM   #7
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My favorite part is pipelineaudio enjoying a snack during the broadcast!
Kalua pig plates for $3.50 at Time's hot bar....It is my mission to eat them all
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Old 02-06-2020, 01:45 PM   #8
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I'm completely with you. Unfortunately music production is especially susceptible to this magical-thinking ...
Fascinating stuff. Can you tell me where the quote about L-dopa is from?
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Old 02-06-2020, 02:01 PM   #9
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I'm completely with you. Unfortunately music production is especially susceptible to this magical-thinking and "it's something you can't hear, but you can feel when it's missing" pseudoscience. I think it's part of the reward system of our brains. We always want to feel like there's something more, something mysterious going on. It's also marketing preying on that inclination.
And music is so black box and wrapped in mystery because musicians are so visceral (in a creative good way), they/we are especially susceptible to "mojo". The absolute biggest thing that changed my view is when I began learning how to design and build circuits, mostly for stomp boxes - It taught me an awful about how waveforms behave. However...

I did come away realizing that it really does not matter if the mojo is in your head, in the gear or somewhere in between, so long as you are inspired by it and produce results because of it. So while I think it's fine to dispel marketing myths at some point it's as fine to just make the music and not need to know where "it" comes from - think it's the box, OK fine, just be creative.
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Old 02-06-2020, 02:40 PM   #10
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I did come away realizing that it really does not matter if the mojo is in your head, in the gear or somewhere in between, so long as you are inspired by it and produce results because of it. So while I think it's fine to dispel marketing myths at some point it's as fine to just make the music and not need to know where "it" comes from - think it's the box, OK fine, just be creative.
This is pretty much my pragmatic look at it. I leave it alone until these guys start hammering on noobs that they MUST spend their money on stuff that doesn't measurably or audibly matter instead of stuff that does.

And worse when its a voice of authority (whether or not you agree it should be) like Reverb
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Old 02-06-2020, 03:00 PM   #11
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This is pretty much my pragmatic look at it. I leave it alone until these guys start hammering on noobs that they MUST spend their money on stuff that doesn't measurably or audibly matter instead of stuff that does.

And worse when its a voice of authority (whether or not you agree it should be) like Reverb
In fairness, they're the voice of a retailer.

If someone can't work out that people who sell stuff for a living will try and tell them they need that stuff, then I think that person has bigger problems.

The critical thinkers and skeptics will always be drawn to the debunkers, but the people who want to believe in magic will always justify their gear lust and find ways to write off evidence.

People who are creative, and creating art is actually their goal, will make do with what they have to hand.

There is a whole other category who dabble in creativity to justify consumer lust, and I say let them have at it.

Another category is the people who don't have a creative bone in their body, make "educating the noobs" a justification of their life's mission to be a dick to everyone, talk down to people with more knowledge and experience than them and obsess over out-of-context data to prove a point.

I think the last are the most toxic, and they create so much noise it drowns out working professionals like yourself who want to share a bit of truth in the face of disingenuous marketing.
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Old 02-06-2020, 03:08 PM   #12
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This is pretty much my pragmatic look at it. I leave it alone until these guys start hammering on noobs that they MUST spend their money on stuff that doesn't measurably or audibly matter instead of stuff that does.

And worse when its a voice of authority (whether or not you agree it should be) like Reverb
Yea I get you, it was also as bad if not far worse in the analog days because there wasn't even such things as a null test.

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If someone can't work out that people who sell stuff for a living will try and tell them they need that stuff, then I think that person has bigger problems.
That usually invokes my "never seen an audio gear head in a soup line" response.
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Old 02-07-2020, 03:37 AM   #13
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I did come away realizing that it really does not matter if the mojo is in your head, in the gear or somewhere in between, so long as you are inspired by it and produce results because of it. So while I think it's fine to dispel marketing myths at some point it's as fine to just make the music and not need to know where "it" comes from - think it's the box, OK fine, just be creative.
that's a very important thing to remember - I remember watching a video all about chris poland's gear and he was saying he could hear a difference when he had a certain kind of anodized screw holding his pickup into the guitar. I immediately thought this was complete, laughable nonsense, and objectively, it almost certainly is. but the fact it gave him a little boost (ultimately psychological boost, but no less profound), probably inspired him to play differently and there's the difference - the difference both in what he 'hears' and how it makes him play.

in medicine, the placebo effect is very powerful (for some things more than others admittedly), so i'm sure the same applies with sounds and the reward centres of the brain.

the other thing that needs unpicking in all these magic preamps is the interface (by which i mean the holistic interface, the entirety of how we interact with the device, not just the GUI or the front panel) and how that influences all of the above as well as how you physically interact with the device. using JS:Saturation compared to using some outboard gear is a vastly different mechanical and mental process, so again there's really no fair and objective comparison between the two (from the experiential perspective), even if the end result is sonically the same.
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Old 02-07-2020, 03:44 AM   #14
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that's a very important thing to remember - I remember watching a video all about chris poland's gear and he was saying he could hear a difference when he had a certain kind of anodized screw holding his pickup into the guitar. I immediately thought this was complete, laughable nonsense, and objectively, it almost certainly is. but the fact it gave him a little boost (ultimately psychological boost, but no less profound), probably inspired him to play differently and there's the difference - the difference both in what he 'hears' and how it makes him play.

in medicine, the placebo effect is very powerful (for some things more than others admittedly), so i'm sure the same applies with sounds and the reward centres of the brain.

the other thing that needs unpicking in all these magic preamps is the interface (by which i mean the holistic interface, the entirety of how we interact with the device, not just the GUI or the front panel) and how that influences all of the above as well as how you physically interact with the device. using JS:Saturation compared to using some outboard gear is a vastly different mechanical and mental process, so again there's really no fair and objective comparison between the two (from the experiential perspective), even if the end result is sonically the same.
Yep, if it weren't so, no company would ever bother with atmospheric GUI's. Some people love them, some people hate them. Vive la difference!

The interface thing is very true. Like how different guitars will bring out different styles of playing and creative avenues, even though they're all 6 strings and a fretboard.
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Old 02-07-2020, 11:22 AM   #15
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And music is so black box and wrapped in mystery because musicians are so visceral (in a creative good way), they/we are especially susceptible to "mojo". The absolute biggest thing that changed my view is when I began learning how to design and build circuits, mostly for stomp boxes - It taught me an awful about how waveforms behave. However...
That's something I learned recently. I don't hear acoustic illusions. I think it is because I'm also tone deaf. So I presume I also don't hear "mojo". To me, it just sounds like an old amp. There are some I like, some I don't. But that's personal.

It always amazes me how some seem tot think they need the mojo from ABC or XYZ. That mojo certainly isn't the same as 40 years ago, when it's vintage. Or a clone.

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I did come away realizing that it really does not matter if the mojo is in your head, in the gear or somewhere in between, so long as you are inspired by it and produce results because of it. So while I think it's fine to dispel marketing myths at some point it's as fine to just make the music and not need to know where "it" comes from - think it's the box, OK fine, just be creative.
Amen. What works, works.

50% of the population can be cured by a placebo. I've seen plenty placebo audio.
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Old 02-06-2020, 02:14 PM   #16
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Fascinating stuff. Can you tell me where the quote about L-dopa is from?
I found it here:
https://www.newsweek.com/ghosts-we-think-we-see-103019
referencing Bruce Hood's book:
https://www.amazon.com/SuperSense-Wh.../dp/0061452645

And from the other side of the magical realm, there's this book which I re-read every few years. It's about some of the real unknowns in the natural world.
https://www.amazon.com/Seven-experim...dp/1573225649/
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