Mastering LOUD Mix WAVES, NI, Cockos etc.

[Naji]

Aim was to get an acceptable Mix mastered with average RMS about -8db.
Mastering Plugins:

1.EQ (in order to boost high end for more brigthness)
ReaEQ, Waves Q2 Eq, BoostEQmkII

2.Multi-band-Compressor
NI Reaktor Flatblaster, Flatblaster 2.0.2., Waves C4, ReaXcomp

3. Loudness-Maximizer / Brickwall-Limiter
Waves L2, Maxwell Smart, LoudMax
NI REaktor´s Flatblaster limiter was bypassed, because it caused crackles.

1st mix
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xp6jlvg7ir...tEQmkII_L2.mp3

The file shows the plugins.

NI Flatblaster, BoostEQmkII, Waves L2

[Naji]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zm2yglyn7y...tblasterL2.mp3
NI Flatblaster and Waves L2, no EQ!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ktu7sq30kb...2._LoudMax.mp3
ReaEQ,NI Flatblaster 2.0.2., LoudMax

[Naji]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x18879pjm8...er_LoudMax.mp3
ReaEQ, NI Flatblaster, Loudmax

https://www.dropbox.com/s/82pwgpb6o0...xwellSmart.mp3
ReaEQ, NI Flatblaster, MaxwellSmart

These two remixes sound very interesting.

[Naji]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/krcn2hutk5...mp_LoudMax.mp3
ReaEQ, ReaXcomp, LoudMax

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n86j7j1h62...arEQ_C4_L2.mp3
WAVES Q2, C4 and L2
The last mix has the clearest sound, but it does not seem to suit the psychedelic style of the track ?!

I like the 4th mix best, NI REAKTOR´s old Flatbaster has a nice multiband compressor, unfortuneatly the Limiter causes crackles whenever you want to have a loud mix, but you can bypass limiter.
I like the old Flatblaster much more than the newer Flatblaster 2.0.2., with 2.0.2. I do not get satisfactory results.
I like ReaEQ and ReaComp, but I do not like ReaXcomp. MaxwellSmart is nice, too.
The results are very diffrent, it depends on which plugins you prefer to work with and of course the settings.
For me the Flatblaster multiband compressor, ReaEQ and Loudmax are plugins that are good enough for mastering.
I could use WAVES plugins in a friend´s studio, but I do not necessarily need to have them.

[Naji]

What do you think, is WAVES superior to the other plugins as for mastering ?
Maybe for very loud mixes. I would not mix it that loud anyway.
-10,5 db average RMS is what I prefer.

[psingman]

Youngs ???, W1 limiter or TL Max, do a better job, from my experience, keep experimenting, if you have the hard drive space, psingman

[Rusty Falcon]

Try Vladg's free "Limiter No6". Holy crap you can abuse the hell out of a mix with this, but at the same time, used smartly, can EASILY make loud final mixes that sound great.

Page: http://vladgsound.wordpress.com/plugins/limiter6/

Video Tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BodTdpvChHQ

I used this before I bought Slate FG-X, which is what I use now.

[Naji]

A nice free EQ is Equlibre, but I haven´t found any free Master Compressor or Multiband-Compressors ?!

[vitalker]

Originally Posted by Naji

A nice free EQ is Equlibre, but I haven´t found any free Master Compressor or Multiband-Compressors ?!

ReaXcomp?

[Reno.thestraws]

Why do you want to achieve such RMS value on a mix with such a crest factor? It's almost only drums. And the "mix" is overloading hard in the 25-50Hz zone. This zone don't play on 80% of speakers but it make you RMS meter louder than it really is

[Naji]

A lot of people would say that this mix is not even loud enough, average RMS nowadays is about -7 to - 6 db.
I would not mix it that loud, my average RMS normally is about -10,5 db depending on music genre,
it was just a test !
I applied 16 bit dithering, but indeed I forgot to insert a high and low pass filter, maybe that´s a further reason for the results of your analysis.

[Reno.thestraws]

Listen to this -> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30049114/Loud.wav

IS it loud? in comparison of the "standard loud enough"?

play it in reaper and place a rms analyser plug-in on it, adn you'll see the result

"LOUDNESS" is not only a matter of RMS level.

You can make master that sound LOUD with -10 RMS level and make master that hit -4db RMS that are not loud at all.

RMS level meter is a voltage indicator not a loudness one.


That what I say that it's no sense to use RMS level as a reference for that type of track. The crest factor is very large and RMS doesn't mean anything in this case (exept that your kick drums is very heavy in the low end)

[Naji]

Originally Posted by Reno.thestraws

Listen to this -> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30049114/Loud.wav

IS it loud? in comparison of the "standard loud enough"?

play it in reaper and place a rms analyser plug-in on it, adn you'll see the result

"LOUDNESS" is not only a matter of RMS level.

You can make master that sound LOUD with -10 RMS level and make master that hit -4db RMS that are not loud at all.

RMS level meter is a voltage indicator not a loudness one.


That what I say that it's no sense to use RMS level as a reference for that type of track. The crest factor is very large and RMS doesn't mean anything in this case (exept that your kick drums is very heavy in the low end)

Thanks for your good piece of advice. Without aiming average RMS of 8, I would mix something like the finalmix, I really forgot a high end low pass filter, and you are right kick drum is a bit too loud, but kick drum must dominate the track for the feel, I think final mix is better, I m going to check yours. Thanks

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j2z0vmf1zhetf0v/FinalMix.mp3

I can not download your file ! ? I have win 7 / 64 bit !

I ve just compared freq Analysis of this track to some professional tracks and I ve noticed that a lot of tracks have "overloads" a 45 hz (30-55 hz), so this seems to be normal ? ! nevertheless my track was too overloaded at 40hz.

So what do you think could improve the track´s master ? Less gain for the kick drum ?

[Naji]

I still can not download your file, so pls convert the file into wav in oder to be able to download it.
I made this thread not to show that I have good mastering skills, I do not; as I said just a test regarding RMS median value.
People could listen and criticize, make suggestions, share their experience concerning mastering, tell what gear or plugins they use...
You show and tell us the weaknesses of the mix, but no suggestions how to make it better; you say RMS-Level is not determining as for perception of loudness, but you do not tell us which value could be determining - this procedure is a little strange, but o.k.
Some people have analyzed and measured loudness of music considering different decades and they found out that there is a constant growth in average levels considering e.g. 1980-2010.
There is also a constant growth of RMS level; on the one hand some say RMS is not the main value as for loudness, on the other hand there are some plugins that show average RMS values and even one of the most popular mastering software wavelab had/have a global anlysis function that show RMS average value as main feature !
Crest factor also increased in the last decades and value growths correlate to each other - Peak Level and RMS levels constantly change during song playback and the crest factor shows the difference betwenn these two values as far as I know and think. So a heavy compression will reduce crest factor and a low crest factor could mean that the music is loud.

Analysis and values are nice, but one of the most important thing is that the volume of each track within a mix for each Instrument or Group is adjusted decently and finally your ear is important !
Reno.thestraws´ ears are definitely better than mine.

[Reno.thestraws]

I still can not download your file, so pls convert the file into wav in oder to be able to download it.

Right click it

There is also a constant growth of RMS level; on the one hand some say RMS is not the main value as for loudness, on the other hand there are some plugins that show average RMS values and even one of the most popular mastering software wavelab had/have a global anlysis function that show RMS average value as main feature !

I quote myself
"LOUDNESS" is not only a matter of RMS level.

You can use RMS average for comparing the loudness of the same mix at 2 different levels of for comparing the same kind of mix with the same kind of balance

Just play with a tone generator and a RMS meter, make your tone to be at -18dbfs and change the frequency of it. You'll notice that some of the frequencies are way louder (to your ears) than others...

It's because of this -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contours

So a mix with a lot of Low end will be pushing you RMS meter hard without being so "loud" to your ears.

on the other hand, a mix without any low end can be loud to your ears and have a smaller average RMS level.

It's human earing

There's other parameters that counts

- the crest factor or the "dynamic range"

A drums is a good example because it as a very large crest factor and so, a very low RMS value.

- The depth of the sound.
A wet mix with a well balanced ambiance that is very 3D will seemed louder than the same mix without any reverb. That's the psycho acoustic side of our brain. If your ears something with a lot of reverb, your brain will understand it as louder because in the real world, the more reverb = the louder

- The harmonic content of the sound. A sound with a lock of harmonic content will sound "closer" and so for your brain it's eqaul to "louder"


Every guys who work with sound or music should, imho, know the basis of human earing and psycho acoustic. There's a lot of things to learn.


SO RMS value is just a measurement an indication that can be relevant about loudness but it's not the only parameter.


In your example with 90% of the mix with high crest facto, if you want to achieve a LOUD mix you have to :

- rebalance the spectrum : probably cut some low end and add some high mids (at the mix stage)
- adding more depth to the mix. In your mix, only the snare has a "dimension"
- Reduce the crest factor of your drums... add some sustain and reduce peak level (// compression is the best way to achieve this without ruining it)

[Naji]

Originally Posted by Reno.thestraws

Right click it



I quote myself
"LOUDNESS" is not only a matter of RMS level.



SO RMS value is just a measurement an indication that can be relevant about loudness but it's not the only parameter.


In your example with 90% of the mix with high crest facto, if you want to achieve a LOUD mix you have to :

- rebalance the spectrum : probably cut some low end and add some high mids (at the mix stage)
- adding more depth to the mix. In your mix, only the snare has a "dimension"
- Reduce the crest factor of your drums... add some sustain and reduce peak level (// compression is the best way to achieve this without ruining it)

Thanks a lot for your good reply.
The average dynamic range (crest factor) of my mixes is 6,4 db, isn´t it a small or low crest factor?. A dynamic range of e.g. 3,5 db sounds like nothing ?!
I understand that a 60 Hz tone at a 65 dB intensity level and a 330 Hz tone at a 40 dB intensity level both sound as loud as a 1000 Hz tone at a 30 dB intensity level and all have a loudness level of 30 phons, BUT i do not see what this knowledge can do for my mixing/mastering ?! Maybe I´m just too stupid...
Do all frequencies of a mix have to have the same intensity level ? adding depth to a mix, does it mean to add some reverb to the mix, I ve heard people do that, but if e.g. your guitar already has reverb and the snare has reverb, would a final mix reverb not be too much reverb ? What Kind of reverb to the mix ? Ambience or something like tiled room (I read it somewhere !)
Well, I maybe know the answer: there are no rules in mixing, if it finally sounds good or if it pleases you, then it does not
matter which way you achieved it, whether or not reverb was used or 60 Hz can sound as loud as 1000 hz.

[Reno.thestraws]

That means that an RMS level meter apply on a full mix just give you an indication of the "voltage" and not the volume...

If you downloaded my file, you would hear Nothing when you played it... but if you're looking to your rms level it will be at -0.1 dbfs RMS... pretty loud for silence isn't it?


IN this thread you seemed to compare tools to achieve "a mastered version of your mix" at a target level of -8dbfs RMS. My question is : WHY targeting an RMS level with an "almost drums only" mix?

Use your ears, not meters

And, to be perfectly complete, TOOLS are just TOOLS. Why comparing C4 with REAXCOMP? You'll not set them the same way because they are different.

Mixing and mastering is not placing plug-ins on the tracks and see what happens... no mixing and mastering is about achieving the "picture of the sound you have in mind".

Listen to your tracks, imagine how it need to sounds, use the tools you have (and you know) to achieve the sound you have in mind.

DO a painter draw X times the same models with different colours and then choose after?

[Naji]

Thanks. Well, you ve detected that my ears are not so good, so maybe no chance ?!

[Reno.thestraws]

Your ears is as good as everybody, just don't be fooled by your brain

If you can, try the check out this vid

http://www.puremix.net/video/how-to-listen.html

everyone that open a daw for mixing or mastering should see this

[Naji]

Originally Posted by Reno.thestraws

Your ears is as good as everybody, just don't be fooled by your brain

If you can, try the check out this vid

http://www.puremix.net/video/how-to-listen.html

everyone that open a daw for mixing or mastering should see this

Ok, I see

[Tod]

I don't know if this means anything here or not. For some time now I've been noticing that I simply can't get as good a mix or sound as I used to get with Sonar back on my old XP.

These are just a few old projects I did with Sonar that I'm now revisiting for one reason or another using Reaper. On almost every one of them I've got a sound I can't quite get.

At this point I haven't taken any big steps to try to find out why, but the more I think about it, with Sonar on my old computer I had the Waves L1 Untramaximizer. I'm starting to suspect that might be the reason.

I have no way of getting the Waves plugin on my new computer. However, I'd be willing to buy the L2 if that's the best thing to get. I haven't really researched this or even put any thought into it until now because I'm totally retired. However, I do have some projects coming up that I'd like to have at the fery least, a good maximizer, if not the best.

So what suggestions might any of you have, whether it's for paid or free? Of course I'd like to check out any free ones first.

[thequietroom]

Originally Posted by Tod

I don't know if this means anything here or not. For some time now I've been noticing that I simply can't get as good a mix or sound as I used to get with Sonar back on my old XP.

These are just a few old projects I did with Sonar that I'm now revisiting for one reason or another using Reaper. On almost every one of them I've got a sound I can't quite get.

At this point I haven't taken any big steps to try to find out why, but the more I think about it, with Sonar on my old computer I had the Waves L1 Untramaximizer. I'm starting to suspect that might be the reason.

I have no way of getting the Waves plugin on my new computer. However, I'd be willing to buy the L2 if that's the best thing to get. I haven't really researched this or even put any thought into it until now because I'm totally retired. However, I do have some projects coming up that I'd like to have at the fery least, a good maximizer, if not the best.

So what suggestions might any of you have, whether it's for paid or free? Of course I'd like to check out any free ones first.

This test isn't pure science, but there is a lot of feedback from the forum users around the topic. Voxengo Elephant is on my wish list


http://www.recordingreview.com/blog/...r-stress-test/

[Tod]

Originally Posted by thequietroom

This test isn't pure science, but there is a lot of feedback from the forum users around the topic. Voxengo Elephant is on my wish list


http://www.recordingreview.com/blog/...r-stress-test/

Thanks thequietroom, I'll definitely check that out, I think it's around $120.

[bladerunner]

Haven't tried it myself but apparently this free clone of L1 is well received.

http://www.yohng.com/software/w1limit.html

[Tod]

Originally Posted by bladerunner

Haven't tried it myself but apparently this free clone of L1 is well received.

http://www.yohng.com/software/w1limit.html

Thanks bladerunner, I'm going to download it an check it out, it actually replaces the L1 limiter but still it's an impressive review.

[Naji]

Originally Posted by Tod

I don't know if this means anything here or not. For some time now I've been noticing that I simply can't get as good a mix or sound as I used to get with Sonar back on my old XP.

These are just a few old projects I did with Sonar that I'm now revisiting for one reason or another using Reaper. On almost every one of them I've got a sound I can't quite get.

At this point I haven't taken any big steps to try to find out why, but the more I think about it, with Sonar on my old computer I had the Waves L1 Untramaximizer. I'm starting to suspect that might be the reason.

I have no way of getting the Waves plugin on my new computer. However, I'd be willing to buy the L2 if that's the best thing to get. I haven't really researched this or even put any thought into it until now because I'm totally retired. However, I do have some projects coming up that I'd like to have at the fery least, a good maximizer, if not the best.

So what suggestions might any of you have, whether it's for paid or free? Of course I'd like to check out any free ones first.

As far as I know the current and maybe best version is called WAVES L3.
Although the quality of my mixes is not very good, you will hear a big difference when you listen to mix Nr. 7 (only WAVES plugins).
I´d say that for most music genres L2 is very good - very clear sound with presence and does not distort sound even with pretty extreme settings, but in some cases L2 is not good and it can even destroy the character or soul of a mix, e.g. for Hendrix songs I would not use L2 - hahaha Eddie Kramer has even collaborated with WAVES and there are some plugins available - maybe I am completely wrong ?!

[Naji]

I saw a Kenny Gioia REAPER video. He uses LoudMax in this video.

[planetnine]

You could download an EBU loudness meter (Toneboosters has one, but there are many), to see how loud your mix is compared to the RMS(AES) reading.

While you're reading up on EBU R128 you might want to note that with quantifiable loudness readings, tracks can be gainstaged so that they all play back at equal loudness. This is called "loudness normalisation".

This practice is being adopted by radio and TV stations in many nations and the takeup is growing, often backed with legislation. Many media players offer loudness normalisation to their users, including iTunes.

This will mean for much playback, there is no advantage to mangling your track for maximum loudness or RMS value, as the playback will turn it back down to avoid irritating the listener. In fact all you will be doing is damaging your creation for no reason, and the hypercompressed, BWL'd tracks do sound bad compared to more open dynamic material once volume levelled.

So by all means continue with this dark art for your car CD player, but save an unrammed version for other uses.



>

[Naji]

Originally Posted by planetnine

You could download an EBU loudness meter (Toneboosters has one, but there are many), to see how loud your mix is compared to the RMS(AES) reading.

While you're reading up on EBU R128 you might want to note that with quantifiable loudness readings, tracks can be gainstaged so that they all play back at equal loudness. This is called "loudness normalisation".

This practice is being adopted by radio and TV stations in many nations and the takeup is growing, often backed with legislation. Many media players offer loudness normalisation to their users, including iTunes.

This will mean for much playback, there is no advantage to mangling your track for maximum loudness or RMS value, as the playback will turn it back down to avoid irritating the listener. In fact all you will be doing is damaging your creation for no reason, and the hypercompressed, BWL'd tracks do sound bad compared to more open dynamic material once volume levelled.

So by all means continue with this dark art for your car CD player, but save an unrammed version for other uses.



>

I have audiocation loudness meter. In order to get target value of LUFS -23 I have to mix without loudness Maximizer and it´s still exceeding target value; value of my last mix without loudness maximizer is -21,7.

[Naji]

I ve just checked a n original track of Alicia Keys "Fallin"

average LUFS: clipping, that means it´s exceeding -14
average RMS: -9,9 db

Prince "The most beautiful Girl in the world"
average LUFS: -14,4
average RMS: -14,8 db

General info about loudness meter plugin:
Maximum value analyzed by plugin is -14 !, target value -23.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Naji

I have audiocation loudness meter. In order to get target value of LUFS -23 I have to mix without loudness Maximizer and it´s still exceeding target value; value of my last mix without loudness maximizer is -21,7.

Hi Naji, I also downloaded the audiocation loudness meter to check it out and I'm thoroughly confused.

I can put it on a mix that has no compression or limiting what so ever on the master FX. Also, there is very little compression on any of my tracks other than the vocal track and it's just enough to give it presence. I have good mics and trust them so I don't have a lot of EQ.

Even though my Peak output levels are less then -1.0db the audiocation shows clipped all the way around.

At this point I'm not sure what to think about audiocation, either I'm not getting the point or it's rather useless and really and truly it could be my ignorance.

I think my next step will be to take two mixes, one with a maximizer, and one with out. Then just turn down the maximized track until it sounds level with the un-maximized one, then A/B them.

I have a feeling I'm still going to pick the maximized mix. If that sounds like I'm a loudness guy I'm not, I totally believe in and respect dynamics.

I have multi-track tape mixes I did back in the 70s that I think blow away many of the mixes I hear today, not only other's mixes but also my own.

Heh heh, of course back in the 70s we didn't have all this fancy maximizing and loudness meter stuff, we basically flew by the seat of our pants.

But today is today and I'm trying to learn.

[Naji]

Originally Posted by Tod

Hi Naji, I also downloaded the audiocation loudness meter to check it out and I'm thoroughly confused....



But today is today and I'm trying to learn.

Hi Tod, "The most beautiful girl in the world" was released 1994 with a value of -14,4, only 0,5 more and it would have clipped, as well;
this is one of my preference mixes, because the sound is unbelievably clear and I´d also call it fresh, the drums are just magic, bass, guitar, synth-pads, organ, special fx-sounds, panning and voice - everything is pretty perfect.
The values of Prince´s track:
Peak = -0.5 dB
Average RMS : - 14,8 dB
Dynamic range : 12,5 dB
Average LUFS - 14,4

And if you compare Prince´s mix to Alicia Key´s mix "Fallin´" you will notice that Prince´s mix was mixed way better - Alicia´s mix
has a dynamic range of 7 db ! Too much compression and limiting or sound maximizing ! If you first listen to Prince and then to Alicia, Alicia´s mix will hurt your ears ! In Alicia´s song the voice - lead and background vocals - dominates the whole mix - it does not have to be mixed that loud, IMHO.


I am pretty sure that almost every professional mix would exceed -14 today.
I am not sure if I will analyze my mixes with Audiocation in the future;
maybe I will try to get a LUFS target value of 14,2 for my mixes ?!

Is there a free plugin that would also analyze and display values that exceed LUFS 14 ?

Well, I think a loudness Maximizer is indispensable for a good mix.
Maybe the dynamic range is the key to a good mix;
Minimum value of Dynamic range: 10 dB depending on the music genre! What do you think ?
And when I consider the values of Prince´s mix, maybe the mix is pretty good when LUFS
and RMS average value are similar ?
I ve heard that in order to be competitive, the average RMS target should be -7db
and dynamic range 6 db today as for music genres that are usually played pretty loud !
I know that finally your ears will tell whether a mix is good or not.

I read your thread about "TRUE STEREO REVERB" and maybe adding a litte true stereo reverb to a mix is not bad, either.
I played a piano plugin with your true Stereo Setting and it sounded great.
Then I applied it on a mix and I noticed that applying a true stereo reverb to more than one track or instrument can make the whole mix sound messy. It´s because the reverb is panned to the very right and left side and if too many things are panned to L100 and R100 it´s just too much; so I changed panning of reverb and it worked fine, but I would not use true stereo reverb for more than two tracks in a mix..
Or maybe use true stereo reverb only for the final mix ?
What do you think ?

[Naji]

I experimented a lot last week as for mixing tools and I think I ve probably found my go-to plugins for final mix.

1. ReaEQ - sometimes for little high end boost adding a little brightness (high shelf at 10kHz)
High pass at 39 hz and low pass at 17,5 khz

2. TUG of WAR MASTERING COMPRESSOR
for my final mix-test I selected factory preset "medium"
That compressor is just great !
Whatever I ve tried before: NI REAKTOR´s mastering compressor, or Waves C4 or
ReaXComp - the results were never satisfactory.
One reason is that a Multi band compressor compresses a settled range of frequencies differently from other settled ranges,
do not need frequency-range-splits in order to compress, e.g. if you want to attenuate peaks of high mids, you can do that before final mixing,
if you want low end to be more compressed, you can do that before finalmixing by making higher compression of bass and kick drum tracks,
I do not like adjusting and tweaking multiband compressors, if you have to do that you might have done something wrong in your mix anyway.
I want to sound my final mix equal to my dry mix - only a little louder that´s all. Tug of War is just great, it works pretty well.

3. TL Maximizer
All the maximizers I ve tested before have changed the character of the mix too drastically, sound was colored too much;
Even though WAVES L2 is hyped a lot, L2 changes the soul of a mix in a way I do not really like - way too much presence !
And when you use Tug of war plugin first, then TL Maximizer has not to do a lot any more, add just a very little gain and make output ceiling settings, that´s all. Done !

4. Also "Blue Cat´s FreqAnalyst" in order to see the values of db of all frequencies / hz of the mix. My fav preset is "high precision".

So my master track has 4 plugins inserted.

Many thanks to Psingman, he recommended TL Maximizer and I found TUG of War together with TL Maximizer
Both are free available plugins ! Thanks a lot.

[Naji]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ad5ys145k...13032014_a.wav

It´s only 22 seconds. This time I wanted to have more instruments playing at the same time and more reverb settings.
So I played an e-piano, clavi, synth-bass, and dynamic delayed drums.

The only thing I will have to find out is whether it´s good to add some reverb to a final mix ?!

Peak: -0,5 dB
Average RMS : -11,3 dB
Dynamic range: 9,7 dB
Well, Audiocation loudness meter can´t give me any values, because it´s peaking, that means value is exceeding LUFS -14,
I would need a plugin that displays all values without a maximum limitation!

All instruments except drums from Yamaha S80 (user presets).
Drums:
One Áudio drum loop sample
and
Kick drum and snare drum replacement with Reaper´s Media Explorer, but the original drum Loop
is still playing, another kick and snare were added. No Midi-tracks at all.
FX: ReaComp, ReaEQ,Reaverb (small hall)and ReaDelay and CH-2 Chorus for e-piano.
and finally the already mentioned mastering fx.

[Naji]

Originally Posted by psingman

Youngs ???, W1 limiter or TL Max, do a better job, from my experience, keep experimenting, if you have the hard drive space, psingman

TL Max was a very good recommendation. W1 is not so good for me, IMHO. Thanks.

[Naji]

So I think a Multiband compressor is good for mastering, not for mixing.
If you have to make compilation of different mixes from different artists, then you will need a multi-band-compressor in order to equal the loudness and frequency ranges of all tracks; the loudness of all mixes and the characteristic of sound of all mixes should be similar after mastering.
So for final mixing of a session/project ReaComp might do a better job than ReaXcomp.

[Naji]

When you use a high or low pass filter, eqs usually have a slope, as far as I know, that means if you have a high pass at 39 hz, the filter with not cut immediately everything that is lower than 39 hz. Youi can Change the slope value by adjusting the bandwith in ReaEQ.

Does a bandwith of "2" have a slope value of -3dB in ReaEQ ?
And what would it mean, if yes.
Does it mean that as to the decrease of db value of a high pass filter at 39 hz, the value at 38 hz would be -3 db less than before and at 37 hz - 6db and so on ?

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Naji

When you use a high or low pass filter, eqs usually have a slope, as far as I know, that means if you have a high pass at 39 hz, the filter with not cut immediately everything that is lower than 39 hz. Youi can Change the slope value by adjusting the bandwith in ReaEQ.

Does a bandwith of "2" have a slope value of -3dB in ReaEQ ?
And what would it mean, if yes.

I could be wrong but I think the default of 2 octaves is 6db per octave. However, with this old fart brain of mine I could be wrong.

Does it mean that as to the decrease of db value of a high pass filter at 39 hz, the value at 38 hz would be -3 db less than before and at 37 hz - 6db and so on

No, if you use a high pass frequency of 39hz, there will be very little affect on 38hz. If I'm right about the slope of 6db per octive with a bandwidth of 2 octives then 19.5hz would be lowered 6db, 9.75hz should be down 12db.

[Tod]

Hi Naji, and thankyou for this discussion, I think it's going to help me with some current projects I'm working on.

I am pretty sure that almost every professional mix would exceed -14 today.
I am not sure if I will analyze my mixes with Audiocation in the future;

Based on my experience with it so far, it's pretty limiting (no pun intended). It doesn't seem to be a very useful tool wIth it's limit of -14 because it doesn't tell you where your exactly at.

Is there a free plugin that would also analyze and display values that exceed LUFS 14 ?

I'd like to know that too, something that will tell you where your at to give you a better idea of what you need to do.

Well, I think a loudness Maximizer is indispensable for a good mix.

I think this will totally depend on the material. With most of today's commercial music I think it can be a useful tool and learning to get the most out of it without destroying the dynamics is the key.

Maybe the dynamic range is the key to a good mix;

Not sure what you mean by dynamic range, there are at least a couple of aspects to it, Soft<>Loud and musicianship intensity. There's probably more than that but those two things come to mind. I try to preserve these two aspects at least in a reasonable way.

A lot of music, like Rock and Metal for the most part, don't have a lot of dynamics, they're just loud & intense and they are intended to be that way.

On the other hand there are other types of music where the dynamics are important and in some cases fragile.

At any rate, I think dynamics are important and with today's digital world it requires some different tools. In the old days if we hit the tape a little hard (which we often did) it didn't matter, the tape would absorb it and be forgiving, but with digital that's not the case, you have your limits which are actually restrictions that have their own set of rules.

[nofish]

About the Audiocation AC-R128 plugin (and similar plugins based on the R128 specs)....


Keep in mind that the EBU R-128 guidelines and thus plugins based on this were created for broadcast content, were other standards hold than pure music production, so yes it's actually a loudness measurement tool but the recommended target level of -23 LUFS holds only for broadcasting makers and is indeed quite low compared to today's music production standards, so imo it makes only limited sense to try to apply this directly.

https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/r/r128.pdf

There's also a free one by HOFA btw.

http://hofa-plugins.de/pages/start_de/4u.php

edit:
Where this probably becomes more relevant for music production in the future:
http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/perm...itunesloudness

There it's said that e.g. the iTunes streaming content is automatically normalized to around -16.5 LUFS.