Ozone + Ozone or EQuivocate = audio stuttering

[YanHurd]

Hi there,

I recently discovered that having two instances of iZotope Ozone 8 active within a Reaper project leads to severe stuttering, as some bug reports or other forum posts also highlight. Seems to have something to do with Ozone's RAM usage/management ... can't recall right now.

However, today I discovered that the same problem arises when having a single instance of Ozone and Eventide Newfangled Audio EQuivocate active. I tried everything from running these processes dedicated to increasing my ASIO buffer depth to the max without success.

Any hints on how to isolate those two instances best? I need those active online. Many thanks in advance!

BTW: Reaper v5.978/x64 rev 4d396c (May 10 2019), Ozone v8.01.961.WIN64, EQuivocate version unknown / no info screen found.

[ernzo]

Those can be very demanding plugins depending on the particular preset or way you're using them.

Similar stuttering/crackling will happen with high quality Linear-Phase EQ's, or very high quality Convolution Reverbs..

The only solution is using less plugins, or reducing the Quality/Complexity of the processes you're applying.. or just get a better CPU!

[YanHurd]

Originally Posted by ernzo

[...]
The only solution is using less plugins, or reducing the Quality/Complexity of the processes you're applying.. or just get a better CPU!

Thank you very much for the information and the suggestion. PC is somewhat new and I was hoping that "Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-7400 CPU @ 3.00GHz, 3000 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)" would be sufficient. :-(

[YanHurd]

UPDATE: Just had a quick look on [View > Performance Meter] and CPU seems to be relaxed at about 25% while audio is stalling. EQuivocate version is 1.5.9 (latest) BTW ...

[ernzo]

That CPU should be good enough to stand a considerably demanding dance;
but since the plugins can also be set to do a varying number of very demanding quality processes,
it's hard to tell if there's a real bug/problem or it's just a matter of raw performance..

Perhaps you could detail us a little bit in which way you're using EQuivocate, and which Ozone modules are active or in which way?


In any case, when Monitoring:
try Disabling any Oversampling that might be going on in Ozone,
try reducing FIR Impulse length or padding (multipliyer) of any Linear Phase EQ,
or try reducing the FFT analyzer graph's resolution..

Then, when it's time to Render you can Enable the extra quality that Oversampling, or the longer FIR Impulses can give you.


-In terms of ASIO, 512 or 768 samples should be enough for pretty much any demanding task..
as long as it's not simply too much for the CPU/system.

But yeah, when you reach the ceiling there's little you can do about it.

That's why it's good having a Monitoring, and a Rendering set-up,
although some programs like DMG's EQuilibrium let you have separate configs.

[YanHurd]

Again - many thanks for your detailed response and your efforts!

I already played around with reducing/deactivating oversampling and even the GUIs of those plugins, but couldn't get rid of the stuttering ... However, I now just moved the whole mix to a subproject (Reaper flexibility to the rescue), and now the "mastering" track/folder (where I need both plugins) is the only one with active plugins. That works fine for me :-)

Thanks again!

[Dex]

Can you post a screenshot of how you're doing the routing for your master bus processing? (Are you using folders? Putting processing on the master bus?)

[YanHurd]

Originally Posted by Dex

Can you post a screenshot of how you're doing the routing for your master bus processing? (Are you using folders? Putting processing on the master bus?)

I don't think that a screenshot would help ... they are both on the parent folder of my project named "MASTER", which contains another parent folder named "SUM", which in turn contains all tracks of the project. It's my standard layout: Mixing up to SUM, DIY mastering on MASTER.

Anyway, it doesn't seem to matter where those plugins reside - just both of them (and all the others) being active seem to have driven my system to its limits. But containing all other plugins and processing in a subproject (on the SUM level) does the trick, and lets me a.) have enough resources to populate my master chain as I like it, and b.) renders my SUM subproject automatically, which I can send off to external mastering.

[Dex]

Instead of using a folder for your master track, try setting it up as a send. That’s how I solved this same issue for myself a little while back. See here: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=221341

[YanHurd]

Originally Posted by Dex

Instead of using a folder for your master track, try setting it up as a send. That’s how I solved this same issue for myself a little while back. See here: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=221341

Wow. Never thought that using FXs on folders would behave any other than on parallel tracks using sends. I'll try that by myself and let you know.

Many thanks for letting me know.

BTW: We seem to use the same standard layout - Reaper Master Track is for analysis only (SPAN, Youlean Loudness Meter etc.).

[Dex]

I'd be curious to know if it helps you too.

Yeah, my setup is the same as yours except I have my analysis plugins on the monitor fx bus.

[bonemachine]

Not sure if this is part of the same issue, but this is the closest thread I've found so far.

I applied Newfangled's "Elevate" plugin to the Master for a song I'm working on. The song played back fine until 4:35, and then it got choppy and slowed to 1/2 speed with all kinds of stuttering. I removed the plugin, saved, rebooted the machine, and tried again. Again, it plays back fine until 4:35, but same problem.

My machine is a few years old, but it's got good horsepower. AMD FX 6200 six-core processor with 24 GB RAM and a 1TB SSD. The CPU never gets over 50% on this project, and the RAM never gets over 40%.

I've used Elevate on another project with no problems. Any help is appreciated.

[Softsynth]

A CPU activity spike won't show up in Reaper.
Do you have multiple fx on these tracks?
It almost certainly is a CPU horse power issue.
If for instance you have particularly CPU hungry VSTi instruments playing polyphonic sounds simultaneously (where perhaps they were silent earlier in the track) that could briefly overload the CPU when used in combination with Elevate (or say another VST FX or VSTi). Very few softsynths are this hungry.

So if say using multiple instances of Diva (especially in high quality mode and polyphonic patches) consider freezing some tracks.

Make sure your Elevate package is up to date.

[chip mcdonald]

I just recently had a project where I had two instances of a Waves plugin on a track, and I started getting crazy CPU spikes and ram usage. Took one instance away, and things were normal.

I would suspect sometimes the way plugins call UI elements/packages things get too recursive or some such when on the same track. I'm not sure if this applies to the original poster's comment or not.

[poetnprophet]

did I miss it or was sample buffer size not mentioned or questioned? Have you tried increasing that?

[bonemachine]

Thanks to all of you for replying.

Softsynth: I was using the Windows Performance Monitor to track the CPU usage when this stuttering issue came up. I didn't see any spikes there. I'm not using a large amount of FX by any means. I just applied Elevate to the Master. What has me confused is that I'm still getting the stuttering even after completely removing Elevate from the project. I applied Elevate to the Master on another project which is about equally resource-intensive, and I've had zero problems.

Poet: I tried increasing sample buffer size up to 768 and then to 1024, with no improved result.

I will make sure Elevate is up-to-date. Thank you again.

[onewayout]

Originally Posted by bonemachine

Thanks to all of you for replying.

Softsynth: I was using the Windows Performance Monitor to track the CPU usage when this stuttering issue came up. I didn't see any spikes there. I'm not using a large amount of FX by any means. I just applied Elevate to the Master. What has me confused is that I'm still getting the stuttering even after completely removing Elevate from the project. I applied Elevate to the Master on another project which is about equally resource-intensive, and I've had zero problems.

Poet: I tried increasing sample buffer size up to 768 and then to 1024, with no improved result.

I will make sure Elevate is up-to-date. Thank you again.

Hi bonemachine

Did you ever get a workaround for this? I just bought this last weekend I only have four tracks or six tracks on my project and it's unusable with the elevate... Thanks Jeff

[Softsynth]

Originally Posted by onewayout

Hi bonemachine

Did you ever get a workaround for this? I just bought this last weekend I only have four tracks or six tracks on my project and it's unusable with the elevate... Thanks Jeff

What CPU?
What buffer settings in Reaper?

[Powermac]

I use Ozone 9 standard and can tell you that my I5 3800U processor with 16 gigs/ram couldn't handle it on some of my songs. Granted these songs had 40 plus tracks, but not a ton of plugins on them. It stuttered badly at times.

Am now running on a I7 7700K processor with the same ram and Ozone runs perfectly when comparing the same songs I was mixing in the above computer. Even at 60% CPU use.

In my case the stuttering and slowing down issue was 100% my CPU.

[onewayout]

Originally Posted by Powermac

I use Ozone 9 standard and can tell you that my I5 3800U processor with 16 gigs/ram couldn't handle it on some of my songs. Granted these songs had 40 plus tracks, but not a ton of plugins on them. It stuttered badly at times.

Am now running on a I7 7700K processor with the same ram and Ozone runs perfectly when comparing the same songs I was mixing in the above computer. Even at 60% CPU use.

In my case the stuttering and slowing down issue was 100% my CPU.

Thx both of you I'm running an I9 with 48 gigs of RAM. I have gone through all the buffer settings soooo many times it hurts... If you would like to share your settings plz do....

But this is a beast of a pc I just put together with all brand new parts.... This isn't making sense...

Thx, Jeff

[onewayout]

There has got to be something going on...I tried using it on mix bus which I have always used leaving the MST BUS FX free...

I have even used 2 mix buses as recommended one with bus fx sander then sending it to another m is x bus with ONLY ELEVATE.

[onewayout]

Originally Posted by Softsynth

What CPU?
What buffer settings in Reaper?

All SSD driven..... Here are all the units and specs....
CONFIGURATION
Socket 2066: MSI Motherboard X299 PRO Included
X-series LGA2066 Max 256GB PCI Express
SATA ATX
Intel LGA 2066 CPU (New!): INTEL Included
I9-10900X 3.70 GHZ 19.25M Boxed Intel
Core i9-10900X Processor (19.25M Cache,
3.70 GHz) FC-LGA14A
Add/Upgrade CPU Cooler: Noctua CPU Included
Cooler NH-U12S LGA2011/1156/1155/1150
AM2/AM2+/AM3/AM3+/FM1/FM2 120mm
Power Supply: Seasonic Power Supply
SSR-750FX 750W ATX 12V 120mm Fully
Modular FOCUS+ Gold Retail
DDR4 Memory: 32GB KIT OF 2 16GB 2666MHZ
DDR4 CL16 DIMM HYPERX FURY BLACK
M.2 NVMe SSD Drive: Samsung 970 EVO
MZ-V7E1T0BW 1 TB Internal Solid State
Drive - PCI Express - M.2 2280
System Assembly: Assemble & Post Test
(Does not include OS install)

My cpu usage is like 7%.....

[Softsynth]

Originally Posted by onewayout

Thx both of you I'm running an I9 with 48 gigs of RAM. I have gone through all the buffer settings soooo many times it hurts... If you would like to share your settings plz do....

But this is a beast of a pc I just put together with all brand new parts.... This isn't making sense...

Thx, Jeff

Certainly a powerful machine.
What are the buffer settings you have settled on then?

[onewayout]

Originally Posted by Softsynth

Certainly a powerful machine.
What are the buffer settings you have settled on then?

I keep it on 1024 while I mix. My buffering settings are at about half of Reaper's suggestions (although I went back to default during the issue)....BUT today THE GHOST IN THE MACHINE is gone and today it is working FINE.... '-\

[Softsynth]

Originally Posted by onewayout

....BUT today THE GHOST IN THE MACHINE is gone and today it is working FINE.... '-\

Cool
Let's hope it was a gremlin during Operating System background updates or similar.