pan law: the same if in channel or in master?

[whiteaxxxe]

so I stumbled just over the possibility to set the pan law in the master. (Bitwig theme, I assume its with every theme the same).

am I right to assume, if I set the pan law in the master to -3db that that would be the same as if I set it in all channels to -3db?

if I set it in the master and not generally in the channels, I dont run into the hassle of remembering to set it back to 0db for folders, fx returns, groups and so on.

so, if I want it to be -3db I set everything to 0db pan law, in the master to -3db pan law and forget about that for all times???

[Fergler]

Afaik, no, the pan law of the master only affects the panning of the master track. I think the confusion comes from most other DAWs using a global pan law rather than a per-track pan law.

If you want -3 for everything set that as the project default before starting a project and probably just ignore the master. Personally I've never had a reason to pan the master track. In fact, the first thing I did when I learned about WALTER was remove the pan, mute, and solo from the TCP master track. When I'm routing to hardware I use pre-master busses anyway so they serve no purpose to me.

[whiteaxxxe]

yes, sure it affects only the master. so it affects everything going out of Reaper? that is what I want. it pushes down the center of the mix about -3db. if I do it on all channels but not on the master it should be the same result?

maybe I should do some null-tests ...

[whiteaxxxe]

yep, I did.

so I imported a track into Reaper. rendered it out with track set to -3db pan law.

same track rendered out with master set to pan law -3db.

reimported the two renders back into Reaper, flipped the phase of one, and: null.

so I dont need to set the pan law per channel, I can do it in the master.

or have I missed something?

[ashcat_lt]

Try it again with a mono source and modulate the track pan from center to left and then over to the right. Render it twice like you did before.

[whiteaxxxe]

wtf???

very interesting ... it nulls with modulated pan across the whole stereo width only when the mono-source is exactly in the center.

and now someone can give me some elusive explanation for this? enlighten me, please ... and I thought I would have a extreme simple solution for something that bugs me on and on and on ... f*'&$&§ pan law ... I never really understood and when I thought I had a grasp on it: nothing.

the thing is: I am working on a template for 2 drummers (with Groove Agent 2, faking something like Allman Brothers or Grateful Dead, its for a maybe-revival of a band from the last centennials mid 70s). works really well, panning is crucial. so there are no things flying around from left to right and vice versa, so I think to have the same results (as shown in the first null-test) regardless I have the pan law on the channels or on the master. pan law on the master means I have not to fight with "remember to switch off pan law if you use a folder".

so normally I would use no pan law at all, as I always did and do. but in that case the 2 drummers seem to be more spacious sounding and more distinct from one another - the drumsets are not equal, of course, the sounds are slightly different for each drummer - if I use a pan law. can be expectation bias, on the other hand the null-test with stereowise static material worked.

now what would I do now ... f*$& the second null-test? I tend to do that ... any other recommendations?

[ashcat_lt]

How the pan law affects any given track is completely dependent on the position of that track's pan pot. If you set the Master to -3 and then leave its pan pot in the middle, you're doing nothing but attenuating everything that comes into the Master by 3db. This will have the same effect as setting a bus or folder at -3db and leaving its pan pot at center. It will not ever accomplish what you're hoping for because it's basically the pan pot that makes it work.

If you don't want to use the thing on each track/folder, then you just adjust the volume manually along with the pan.,

[whiteaxxxe]

that is what I will do ... theres no other way.

thanx for the replies!

[Banned]

[OT]

Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe

I am working on a template for 2 drummers (with Groove Agent 2, faking something like Allman Brothers or Grateful Dead, its for a maybe-revival of a band from the last centennials mid 70s).

Or, be funky like James Brown, and prepare a setup for five drummers.

Oh well.. I'd sure settle for having 'only' Stubblefield and Jabo.