Old 02-21-2015, 10:04 AM   #1
BrianHanke
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Default Volume automation best practices?

Hi all: I'm a classically-trained composer currently training myself to use MIDI and samples in my work. I'm using Sibelius to write the scores/export to MIDI and REAPER/Miroslav Philharmonik/Altiverb to create the finished product.

I've written a piece for strings and now I want to introduce some dynamics and phrasing to make the music come to life. My initial thought is to use volume automation to create crescendos and decrescendos as needed. Is that the best way to go or is there another technique that people prefer to use?

Also, I find that using the volume slider for automation is a little imprecise. I tried drawing in the envelopes manually, but I wasn't totally happy with that either because it didn't feel very organic. Ideally I'd like to be able to use a trackpad or maybe the mouse wheel for really precise control. Is that possible?

Any other tips are welcome! Thanks in advance!
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Old 02-21-2015, 11:36 AM   #2
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A real orchestra does not have somebody riding faders to make the mix. Dynamics come from the articulation of the instruments themselves. For that reason, I'd say that velocity modulation is the most appropriate way to accomplish what you're asking about.
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Old 02-21-2015, 11:58 AM   #3
BrianHanke
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Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
A real orchestra does not have somebody riding faders to make the mix. Dynamics come from the articulation of the instruments themselves. For that reason, I'd say that velocity modulation is the most appropriate way to accomplish what you're asking about.
Thanks for the reply! What's the best way to do velocity modulation in REAPER? Say I have a long held note in the violins that I want to start soft and get a little louder.

Edit: I read elsewhere on the forums that the take volume envelope modifies velocity on MIDI items. Maybe that's what I want?
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Old 02-21-2015, 12:04 PM   #4
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Thanks for the reply! What's the best way to do velocity modulation in REAPER? Say I have a long held note in the violins that I want to start soft and get a little louder.
Oh, that's going to be a bit different! Velocity is always sent with the Note On, so can't change during held notes. The absolute best would be if the synth (sampler, whatever) responds to a continuous controller (after touch, expression, something...) to do this, but there also might be like a specific articulation available by key-switch or something. Miroslav is kinda meant to do this kind of thing, and while I've never used it, I'm sure they built in some way to handle it. So, not to say rtfm, but...
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Old 02-21-2015, 12:17 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
Oh, that's going to be a bit different! Velocity is always sent with the Note On, so can't change during held notes. The absolute best would be if the synth (sampler, whatever) responds to a continuous controller (after touch, expression, something...) to do this, but there also might be like a specific articulation available by key-switch or something. Miroslav is kinda meant to do this kind of thing, and while I've never used it, I'm sure they built in some way to handle it. So, not to say rtfm, but...
Got it. I'll drop them an email.
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Old 02-21-2015, 12:50 PM   #6
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I've not used miroslav, but sending expression cc with modwheel usually works well for me.
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Old 02-21-2015, 01:01 PM   #7
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For crescendos or decrescendos during a single note, the optimal way (imho) is to use the amplification envelopes of the instrument itself, since that typically minimises the amount of data needed to accomplish a smooth rise / fall in volume, while minimising the possibility of audible artefacts (such as 'zipper noise').

If you want to do something more complex, I tend to prefer using CC#s (and aftertouch) over plug-in parameter automation. While many users find automation envelopes much easier to edit than MIDI CC#'s, MIDI has the advantage of being 100% portable between *all* MIDI-compatible software and hardware sequencers, and even many instruments respond in a very similar way to the exact same data, while none of this is true for automation - i.e. when you would change the instrument plug-in or sequencer, you typically have to redo the entire editing again manually. Of course, this is not relevant when you only want to use one specific plug-in (such as Miroslav Philharmonik, in your case) in a given host/sequencer (such as REAPER), though. For optimal resolution of MIDI CC#s, you may be able to use 14-bit CC#7+39 for volume, CC#11+43 for expression, etc.

However, I have no idea what CC#s are supported in Miroslav Philharmonik, nor if it actually has amplification envelopes (that can be controlled in a manner that is flexible enough), nor if it supports 14-bit CC#s, since I avoid any IK Multimedia software like the plague, for a variety of reasons which I won't go into here as that would be quite off-topic - except for one: I have *very* bad experiences with both MIDI control and automation in IKM products leading to audible zipper noise (so I don't ever use the IKM products that I own - my most regretted plug-in purchase yet). So I attempted to answer your question more generally, which may also be useful for other users using other plug-ins, but I'm sorry if this isn't answering your question specifically enough.

For precise and expressive (which is how I interpret "feel organic") recording of MIDI or parameter automation, I don't think a mousewheel or trackpad will improve things very much. Using aftertouch or mod wheel may be the best approach for recording MIDI, at least if you have a keyboard which has a good implementation of this that feels comfortable to you (which is a highly subjective matter, in my experience), but is typically limited to 7-bit resolution. Another good option may be to use something like a Wacom Intuos tablet pointer device to record plug-in parameter automation . Such devices are very suitable for precise and expressive control, imho - YMMV, though. Yet another possibility is to use a touchscreen device coupled with an OSC Control Surface setup. With the proper setup, this can be very suitable for expressive control as well, imho, but again, YMMV.
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Old 02-21-2015, 01:18 PM   #8
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For crescendos or decrescendos during a single note, the optimal way (imho) is to use the amplification envelopes of the instrument itself, since that typically minimises the amount of data needed to accomplish a smooth rise / fall in volume, while minimising the possibility of audible artefacts (such as 'zipper noise').

If you want to do something more complex, I tend to prefer using CC#s (and aftertouch) over plug-in parameter automation. While many users find automation envelopes much easier to edit than MIDI CC#'s, MIDI has the advantage of being 100% portable between *all* MIDI-compatible software and hardware sequencers, and even many instruments respond in a very similar way to the exact same data, while none of this is true for automation - i.e. when you would change the instrument plug-in or sequencer, you typically have to redo the entire editing again manually. Of course, this is not relevant when you only want to use one specific plug-in (such as Miroslav Philharmonik, in your case) in a given host/sequencer (such as REAPER), though. For optimal resolution of MIDI CC#s, you may be able to use 14-bit CC#7+39 for volume, CC#11+43 for expression, etc.

However, I have no idea what CC#s are supported in Miroslav Philharmonik, nor if it actually has amplification envelopes (that can be controlled in a manner that is flexible enough), nor if it supports 14-bit CC#s, since I avoid any IK Multimedia software like the plague, for a variety of reasons which I won't go into here as that would be quite off-topic - except for one: I have *very* bad experiences with both MIDI control and automation in IKM products leading to audible zipper noise (so I don't ever use the IKM products that I own - my most regretted plug-in purchase yet). So I attempted to answer your question more generally, which may also be useful for other users using other plug-ins, but I'm sorry if this isn't answering your question specifically enough.

For precise and expressive (which is how I interpret "feel organic") recording of MIDI or parameter automation, I don't think a mousewheel or trackpad will improve things very much. Using aftertouch or mod wheel may be the best approach for recording MIDI, at least if you have a keyboard which has a good implementation of this that feels comfortable to you (which is a highly subjective matter, in my experience), but is typically limited to 7-bit resolution. Another good option may be to use something like a Wacom Intuos tablet pointer device to record plug-in parameter automation . Such devices are very suitable for precise and expressive control, imho - YMMV, though. Yet another possibility is to use a touchscreen device coupled with an OSC Control Surface setup. With the proper setup, this can be very suitable for expressive control as well, imho, but again, YMMV.
Thanks so much for all the valuable info! I'm going to follow up with IKM and see what they recommend.

Your comment about using a tablet for automation is very interesting. As it happens I have a Huion tablet that I use for painting in Photoshop. Can I use it with REAPER as well?
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Old 02-21-2015, 01:48 PM   #9
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Thanks so much for all the valuable info! I'm going to follow up with IKM and see what they recommend.
Fwiw, my experience with their support is that it is worse than completely useless. They haven't ever come close to fixing any of the bugs and severe design flaws that I have reported on multiple occasions. But I would bet its much easier for them to give a bit of advice to your question, so they can tell their boss they have closed yet another support ticket.
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Your comment about using a tablet for automation is very interesting. As it happens I have a Huion tablet that I use for painting in Photoshop. Can I use it with REAPER as well?
If you can use it to control your pointer (does your OS support this, or is it only usable in specific applications like Photoshop?), just give it a try, it may already be a huge improvement.

But taking it even further (which would also require more effort on your own behalf), you could also use / create some specific 'middleware' to convert the pen movement across the entire tablet to a specific parameter (e.g. 'last touched parameter') and send that data to REAPER using its OSC Control Surface feature, or to a 14-bit MIDI CC# sent to REAPER via a 'virtual' MIDI cable, so that the full resolution of the tablet translates to the full range of the parameter / CC#. I have built something like that a long while ago using Pure data and its [hid] object, and OSCulator and junXion (and probably many other apps) also support doing this sort of stuff, iirc.
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