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Old 04-29-2020, 12:39 AM   #41
ultraleetj
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so it turns out that I am moving out, for a long while due to all of this pandemic situation, which means I cannot host my private server any longer. I thought of renting and vps an setting up a private ninjam server there, this is because I am looking for a room capable of about 10 people or so. Not sure if the more people there are, the more internet speed each person would need?
has anyone tried setting a private server this way? if not, then what other options might I have with similar proportions?
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Old 04-29-2020, 04:13 AM   #42
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https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=235302
and
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=233457

With those, any VPS that lest you work that way will work.
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Old 04-30-2020, 09:22 AM   #43
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wow. Well, I am pretty much a total beginner to all of this, so reading a lot right now... because it seems a bit intimidating, but thanks a lot for the info.

edit: by recommendation, purchased a small server at linode.com its pretty neat just 5 dollars/mo and there is a $20 credit for new users that sign up. Not sure for how long it'll be but its there.
it was just enough to follow the instructions to download on the ninjam site, by cloning the repo, then building and what I did after was to transfer the files I have here to the remote installation via ssh, and voila! everything works like a charm.
Not sure what the capacity for that machine can be, but I am sure we can do 8 people just fine, if not even many more.

Last edited by ultraleetj; 04-30-2020 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 04-30-2020, 04:05 PM   #44
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Default Delay in my guitar signal.

Hello, today I tried NINJAM for the first time with a drummer friend and we found that there was a significant signal delay that made it impossible to play. (We played with the metronome)
Is this related to my internet connection quality or is there something that can be revised to reduce this gap?
What are the minimum connection requirements to be able to play in sync?
Thanks in advance.

Javi.
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Old 05-01-2020, 03:13 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javimusic View Post
Hello, today I tried NINJAM for the first time with a drummer friend and we found that there was a significant signal delay that made it impossible to play. (We played with the metronome)
Is this related to my internet connection quality or is there something that can be revised to reduce this gap?
What are the minimum connection requirements to be able to play in sync?
Thanks in advance.

Javi.
Hi Javi,
quoted from wiki (I marked bold some essential words):
Quote:
Novel Intervallic Network Jamming Architecture for Music. The software and systems comprising NINJAM provide a non-realtime mechanism for exchanging audio data across the internet, with a synchronisation mechanism based on musical form.

The "significant delay" you hear is "interval". Otherwise what you play on top of incoming audio should be spot on (I do not count your audio interface latency here - few milliseconds) when listened by any other user, but all participants will be hearing different contents within their intervals...

Please, definitely read more about how it works in a post by pljones here:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....59#post2230659

It is intended for jamming where all members play within repetitive interval of chord progression to say, not for linear (pre)structured songs.
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Old 05-02-2020, 07:35 AM   #46
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Ok, thank you very much akademie, it is clear that I had a totally wrong concept of NINJAM, I understand that it is like a kind of cross dialogue between musicians. This has limitations but it can be useful for practicing improvisation and improving the ability to maintain a constant tempo.
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Old 05-03-2020, 03:12 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by javimusic View Post
Ok, thank you very much akademie, it is clear that I had a totally wrong concept of NINJAM, I understand that it is like a kind of cross dialogue between musicians. This has limitations but it can be useful for practicing improvisation and improving the ability to maintain a constant tempo.

and you can also have a look at this, that might work for longer forms and so on. Not the best, but its the ONLY we have at the moment
https://forums.cockos.com/showthread...04#post2273104
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Old 05-17-2020, 02:50 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by bejazz View Post
Another asking

i play jazz and often bpi too short for playing whole tune even when halfing bpm

could it be possible to get bpm down to 20 and bpi up to 96


Hope its possible

Thanks a lot
Sorry Justin, why on a private server do I not have the possibility to increase the BPI beyond the value of 64? I confirm that I made my private server directly with NINJAM SERVER and it is not possible to go below 40 BPM and above 64 BPI. Why? It would be a very interesting and important thing for me. Thanks

Last edited by mk66; 05-17-2020 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 05-18-2020, 08:22 AM   #49
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Sorry Justin, why on a private server do I not have the possibility to increase the BPI beyond the value of 64? I confirm that I made my private server directly with NINJAM SERVER and it is not possible to go below 40 BPM and above 64 BPI. Why? It would be a very interesting and important thing for me. Thanks
I can't either, but once you realize how frustrating it is tojam say, at 60 bpm and 64 bpi you will be sorry
Some internet connections cannot keep up with this, as well.
Long intervals are just too unconfortable. Play things double time and that's it. I have been able to do almost 90% of the stuff as we are right now. Still wishing for a tag ending tune option though.
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Old 05-18-2020, 09:36 AM   #50
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I understand what you mean and also that Ninjam was designed for jamming. However I would need a round of bars that last at least five minutes to be able to play a whole song with the group: theoretically it can be done. In the Ninjam server documentation it is said that the BPM and BPI ranges are much larger than those that can actually be established: I don't understand why in a private server I can't assign the values that interest me. That's all.
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Old 05-18-2020, 11:17 AM   #51
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So you'd like to hear nothing from anyone for five minutes, then have to wait one or more lots of five minutes to see whether anyone heard you and played anything and whether they played something that made sense with what you'd just played? And then repeat.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....59#post2230659

You sound like you'd have more fun using OhmStudio or something.
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...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world.
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Old 05-18-2020, 01:36 PM   #52
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Hello and thanks for the reply.
In fact I think there are dozens of people who are wondering if there is the possibility, in addition to jamming, to be able to rehearse with the band and play more complex songs using the Ninjam system and one of these is me who use it since 2007!
My system currently foresees that a client sends a basic track of the song inside a room where all the members of the group are logged in and that it has been set up in such a way that a cycle of bars lasts 4 minutes: for example 40 BPM and 160 BPI. Let's assume that this track lasts about 4 minutes and therefore all members for 4 minutes will not listen to anything but they can tune the instrument and review their parts. At a certain point everyone will hear the track arrive at the same time and start playing until the end of the song but obviously they will do it by listening only to their own instrument and the base track: let's say that this is the phase of reviewing the song and the solo. At the end of the second 4 minutes everyone will hear what the others have played and, having previously interrupted the base, they will finally be able to play the song all together. I think this is a way to achieve the goal, don't you think?
Let's say that to try a song it takes 12 minutes in total but it is not a waste of time considering also that you can get the separate tracks for a post production.
Here is the reason why I would like to have the possibility to increase the number of BPIs at will. Unfortunately, the problem of latency in programs such as jamulus or jamkazam is not easy to solve while Ninjam ultimately does not even require particularly sophisticated hardware and does not have the problem of latency, in fact.
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Old 05-19-2020, 04:27 AM   #53
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But basically you're recording a song then sharing it. That's not jamming. So you're really after a solution to a different problem than the one NINJAM addresses. Perhaps looking for that different solution would get you the result you're after?
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...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world.
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Old 05-19-2020, 05:03 AM   #54
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^^^^^Exactly what pljones said.

Rather take a look at https://www.bandlab.com/ BandLab social music creation platform with 100% Free Online DAW
https://www.bandlab.com/creation-features
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Old 05-19-2020, 05:39 AM   #55
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No, in fact it is not a solution to publish a song but it is the possibility of rehearsing with the group on already defined songs. I already know Bandlab but this software does a different thing.
The thing I don't understand is if there is a preconception to not allow to increase these values only on a private server: I would like you to explain it to me.
This is an excerpt from the server setup guide on the cockos website:
DefaultBPM bpm - default BPM server (range 20 to 400)
DefaultBPI bpi - default BPI server (range 2 to 1024)
Thanks
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Old 05-19-2020, 05:57 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk66 View Post
...<snip>
This is an excerpt from the server setup guide on the cockos website:
DefaultBPM bpm - default BPM server (range 20 to 400)
DefaultBPI bpi - default BPI server (range 2 to 1024)
Thanks
Now, this part of your report is interesting and these limits may have changed since early versions and are not reflected in the guide. Then it would be fine to correct the documentation, for sure.
These limits are not configurable in config file of the server (only their Defaults), so it must have been directly in the code.

On the workflow you are proposing I cannot help, because "to me" it is nonsense and I would never use such approach with my mates (too long interval, not the same cycle for all connected ones), so I cannot cope with this idea.
But anyway, if it works (or you think it will work) for you then it's OK. That's the beauty of life - the diversity

Last edited by akademie; 05-19-2020 at 05:59 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 05-19-2020, 06:07 AM   #57
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Default Ninjam for Jazz...

I'm pretty new to Ninjam, so this is just an thought coming from a relatively inexperienced user.
So, fell free to take this with a grain of salt.
Or, a whole salt lick...:


Ninjam is ideal for groove playing, but my guess it that it's not well-suited for jazz, or anything with a complex melody -unless you can limit participants to people w/serious jazz chops who know the songs really well.

Also...if you can managed to "label" the jam in a way that let's others know it's serious jazz, then I guess that'll help (and it might keep mindless shredders out)
The "labeling" for each jam is alpha-numeric info that doesn't tell the user about the jam. Maybe that can change, as it evolves?


Anyway, I'm a big fan of Ninjam, and am glad to hear about it being used for as many types of music as possible.


Good luck!!



Peace,

Keith
https://www.reverbnation.com/keithhaydon
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Old 05-19-2020, 07:43 AM   #58
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OK, thank you. I will try it.
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Old 05-19-2020, 09:21 AM   #59
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By the way, what server are you running? The one from the Cockos site?
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Originally Posted by Tony Williams
...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world.
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Old 05-19-2020, 02:43 PM   #60
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By the way, what server are you running? The one from the Cockos site?
Yes, from the cockos site.
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Old 05-19-2020, 09:52 PM   #61
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oh goodness, a 1024 BPI? just imagine that...
the thing is that, and I am really not sure how ninjam handles bandwidth, but it would be interesting if someone can explain so, as I am on a mobile data connection (so far a few drops and sudden disconnects but nothing major or irksome when participating in jams)
but my understanding is that its done in sort of bursts of bandwidth, if you will. So your client records, compresses and then uploads a file, fast, and the server takes care of synchronicity, decompression, playback and crossfading (I know the crossfading thing because some thread discussed the whole thing by continuously playing a sine wave over a short interval to see how the whole thing would respond and it was smoothed out cleverly at the end of the thread)
So... back to it, your client uploads a file or a chunk, in one second, more or less or that is what the statistic in windows task manager shows. And it will then download all that it can in a short time too, which is the compressed audio from all of the other participants. Which means that if you cannot keep up and download things fast enough, most likely, the server will just drop you.
Even though I have jammed privately and there were a few people who have had bad connections, meaning slow, I guess 1 mbps or less and yes... they do had lots of audio pops and crackles in their audio, but somehow they still manage to do it, even in a 8 person jam!
so... isn't the story interesting after all?
I also tried to get a thread started for creative ideas for jamming but I guess there was not enough interest, or I stated too obvious things.
And yes playin other time sigs and things like a 3/4 blues is a bit more involved but done if you have good musicians with you.
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Old 05-19-2020, 11:52 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by ultraleetj View Post
oh goodness, a 1024 BPI? just imagine that...
I understand what you mean but nobody wants to get 1024 BPI! I would settle for 200 or maybe even 100 but lowering the BPM to 20. Then let's see if the system and the server hold up.
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Old 05-21-2020, 11:52 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by pljones View Post
By the way, what server are you running? The one from the Cockos site?
Sorry, but I'm trying to compile the ninjamsrv Makefile for Windows but it generates the error of the attached image. I confirm that I have downloaded all the repository. Do you have an idea how to solve it?
With MacOS Catalina everything is OK.
Thanks.
Attached Images
File Type: png errorserver.png (3.4 KB, 69 views)
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Old 05-22-2020, 02:11 PM   #64
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Sorry, no - I was just checking whether you were using the JamTaba built-in server or the Cockos server. I've never compiled the Cockos one.
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Old 06-12-2020, 09:30 AM   #65
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There's a branch on my github mirror that supports it, however it reduces logging/recording functionality somewhat, at least for now.
<snip>...
Hello Justin,
I would like to ask you if anything new happened that would allow recording of the session on the server side of that branch of ninjam server with Private rooms, yet?

(I am aware that it is more complicated as there are running more rooms at the same time on one server and port, but I think it should be doable).

I would happily help to test some approaches if needed (roomname prefix for timestamped folder of the running session, so if there are e.g. 4 concurrent rooms created and running at the same time, then they still will be distinguishable by the folder name, ...).
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Old 06-21-2020, 05:26 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mk66 View Post
Sorry, but I'm trying to compile the ninjamsrv Makefile for Windows but it generates the error of the attached image. I confirm that I have downloaded all the repository. Do you have an idea how to solve it?
With MacOS Catalina everything is OK.
Thanks.
Check out this thread https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=214078, in particular post #9.

This allowed me to compile the server for windows. Since you are compiling from source you can do whatever you want and overcome the BPI limits.
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Old 07-19-2020, 11:06 AM   #67
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I used a private room for the first time last night (on drums) and joined by my friend on guitar. It was awesome, if not perfect musically. Jamming is jamming, so I accept some kinks in our own timing. Best musical experience of this whole quarantine time for sure. My question is how many people could come into a private room (to play, or a few of our friends to listen in)?

Thanks for doing this and to the Reaper community. We've bought our licenses as sign of support for sure!
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Old 10-31-2020, 03:57 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by mk66 View Post
I understand what you mean but nobody wants to get 1024 BPI! I would settle for 200 or maybe even 100 but lowering the BPM to 20. Then let's see if the system and the server hold up.
https://www.cockos.com/ninjam/server-guide.php
i played jazz with private server with the ninjam private server bpi128 bpm 30 for experimenting slow ballads and it works fine , and now we can have the whole form of the song .
Have you ever try jamtaba @mk66 (same as reaninjam with lot of great feature)

no need to compile or change code from ninjam server file , the private server free you the usage of the bpi and bpm number

have fun .

Last edited by bejazz; 10-31-2020 at 04:05 AM.
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