Old 07-06-2020, 01:32 PM   #1
Twisted Halo
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Default Computer Optimization

Hello all. I just purchased a new computer and want to make sure that I'm getting the most out of it. I searched the forum multiple times and couldn't find any threads that really went into what I need. So, thanks in advance to anyone that can offer some advice. If you have any questions about my setup just ask. I use a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 2nd generation interface. Generally, I do projects that consist of 25 to 50 tracks using plugins such as Amplitube 4, EZdrummer 2, etc.

My old computer is a laptop with an i5 5220U (2.2 GHz base, 2.7 GHz turbo), 8GB of DDR3 1333, and HDD 5400 RPM. I'm able to maintain 7.1 ms of latency with minimal hiccups, unless I'm dumb and accidently leave Kaspersky running.

The new rig is a desktop with an i7 8700 (3.2GHz base, 4.6 GHz turbo) , 32 GB of DDR4 2666, and a 1 TB NVMe M.2 SSD running Windows 10 Pro. In theory this thing should be much faster, and allow for much lower latency, right out of the box. But, I'd like to optimize to get the most out of it.

First, things I already plan to do:
- Set up high performance mode
- Disable system sounds
- Change processor scheduling to background services
- Disable background apps
- Disable Windows SysMain (caused a RAM bog down issue with the last computer)
- disable Kaspersky and internet connection while operating Reaper
- Not use computer for anything else besides recording

Is there anything else that any of you would suggest doing to help make things run as smoothly as possible? Or, anything that I am planning to do that you wouldn't do? Thanks again for any and all suggestions.
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Old 07-06-2020, 01:40 PM   #2
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Please don't cross post.
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Old 07-06-2020, 01:50 PM   #3
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Please don't cross post.
Sorry. Thought it fit into two different areas that might be populated by different people. And, therefore, offer me more and different responses.
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Old 07-06-2020, 01:58 PM   #4
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Congrats on the new computer. I would run the sweetwater optimizations

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare...or-windows-10/

Then get latencymon and see if anything is causing problems. Disable drivers in device manager until latency mon is happy and then figure out what is a problem. For me my DVD burner stays disabled unless I need to burn a dvd because it causes latency.

https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
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Old 07-06-2020, 02:07 PM   #5
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Congrats on the new computer. I would run the sweetwater optimizations

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare...or-windows-10/

Then get latencymon and see if anything is causing problems. Disable drivers in device manager until latency mon is happy and then figure out what is a problem. For me my DVD burner stays disabled unless I need to burn a dvd because it causes latency.

https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
Thanks for the response. I'll look into all of that. I definitely never would have thought of a DVD burner being something that could cause latency issues.
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Old 07-06-2020, 02:15 PM   #6
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Thanks for the response. I'll look into all of that. I definitely never would have thought of a DVD burner being something that could cause latency issues.
Yeah, me too. I also had the Web monitor part of Malwarebytes causing a problem and had to disable it but finally I just uninstalled it.
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Old 07-06-2020, 02:26 PM   #7
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It sounds like you do live performance through the computer and thus need low latency operation.

The block size sets system latency. However, the lowest baseline latency possible is up to the capability of the audio interface. It will have a minimum latency it can operate at no matter what computer you connect it to.

There will be some wiggle room in the middle where a faster computer can make up a little difference and let you run at a block size that wasn't stable in the slower machine. But the baseline latency of the interface itself is a big player.

If live performance is your main gig, consider an audio interface that will run stable with a lower baseline latency. Either some of the thunderbolt or firewire models or one of the faster USB models from RME.

The other caveat:
You can't run a plugin live if it has a higher latency than your current block size. Some of the heavyweight plugins have latency. This is also why you want an interface that gives you a lower possible latency at a higher block size. You can run more latent plugins live.

PS. The bottleneck in that old machine was surely the slow HDD spinner.
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Old 07-06-2020, 03:16 PM   #8
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It sounds like you do live performance through the computer and thus need low latency operation.
I don't currently do any live performance using the computer. Thanks for the input though. That's some interesting stuff that could come in handy in the future.
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Old 07-06-2020, 03:31 PM   #9
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I don't currently do any live performance using the computer. Thanks for the input though. That's some interesting stuff that could come in handy in the future.
If you aren't doing live performance or running live sound through the computer, then there's no need to run at low latency. You're not listening to live here and now sounds simultaneously with the output from the computer - you're only listening to the output from the computer. You should set the latency high (like 512 or 1024 samples) to save your processing power for mixing. Note the controls in Reaper. Tick the box next to block size to enable control from Reaper and enter the value. Untick the box to disable control from Reaper (and ignore any value entered there) to use other software control panels.
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Old 07-06-2020, 03:49 PM   #10
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If you aren't doing live performance or running live sound through the computer, then there's no need to run at low latency. You're not listening to live here and now sounds simultaneously with the output from the computer - you're only listening to the output from the computer. You should set the latency high (like 512 or 1024 samples) to save your processing power for mixing. Note the controls in Reaper. Tick the box next to block size to enable control from Reaper and enter the value. Untick the box to disable control from Reaper (and ignore any value entered there) to use other software control panels.
From what I understand and have experienced, anything over 10ms of latency is noticeable while tracking and can really throw off the recording process.
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Old 07-06-2020, 03:51 PM   #11
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I'm assuming now that by live performance you must have meant live tracking? Sorry if I misunderstood your statement.
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Old 07-06-2020, 04:02 PM   #12
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If you need to play through a plugin when tracking - like a MIDI sound module for a MIDI instrument or maybe a guitar amp sim - that's live performance.

It has always been SOP to use the low latency mixer built into your audio interface to monitor live inputs for overdubbing. This goes back to before any computer was fast enough to do live sound. But if you need to hear a sound module on a MIDI keyboard or a guitar amp sim, then you need to play live through the computer and NOW you need low latency to do that.

A workaround is to render stems to overdub to when this comes up later in a project after you have started dialing up mix processing. When you have enough dialed up on the board that you can't run stable at low latency anymore, render a stereo mix of everything else to track along with so you can set the latency back low. Then cut/paste the new tracks back into the original project, put the latency back up, and continue mixing.

There are some MIDI instrument plugins that you'd need a pretty screaming machine to run live. And there are some plugins that have too high an inherent latency to ever use live (when their latency is larger than the block size you need for your target latency).
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Old 07-06-2020, 04:50 PM   #13
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To your earlier point about latency being limited by the interface, the Scarlett has a minimum round-trip latency of 2.74ms. So, i think my computer was definitely holding me back.
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Old 07-06-2020, 05:56 PM   #14
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To your earlier point about latency being limited by the interface, the Scarlett has a minimum round-trip latency of 2.74ms. So, i think my computer was definitely holding me back.
At what block size and sample rate?

What happens is you discover a faster interface will get, say, 5ms round trip at a block size of 128 samples while a slower example might only get down to 20ms at 128 sample block size. In this example, you'd have to dial the block size down smaller to make your required latency target with the slower interface. Both on the very same computer.

A faster interface lets you use a larger block size which leads to being able to use latent plugins and more plugins.

If live performance/sound is important, interface choice is just as important as the computer. Sometimes more so.
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Old 07-06-2020, 09:09 PM   #15
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If live performance/sound is important, interface choice is just as important as the computer. Sometimes more so.
So, are you saying that Scarlett 2i2 2nd generation isn't a fast/good interface?

The info regarding minimum round-trip latency i got here: https://us.focusrite.com/en/scarlett_indepth
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Old 07-06-2020, 09:35 PM   #16
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So, are you saying that Scarlett 2i2 2nd generation isn't a fast/good interface?

The info regarding minimum round-trip latency i got here: https://us.focusrite.com/en/scarlett_indepth
I'm not meaning to make any conclusive statements like that.

You asked for advice on performance optimization. I'm telling you about how running an interface at different latencies affects things. If you were running live sound for 80% of your work, YOU might come to the conclusion that a specifically lower latency capable interface would be a better fit. If the only "live" use is the occasional overdub performed through a MIDI instrument, it would probably work out fine and not be a problem at all. When you end up with a heavier project that crosses the line and doesn't let you overdub anymore, the workaround is to render a mix to track to so you can temporarily turn everything off. (Bounce a mix. New tab. Paste said mix into new tab. Dial latency back down for tracking. Record. Paste new recorded tracks back into original project tab. Set latency back high for mixing.)

I'd probably comment that that would not be a good enough reason to spend on one of the more expensive faster thunderbolt interfaces in such a case.

Toggling between high and low latency depending on what you're doing is pretty normal. The same computer that might start to struggle after 50 tracks and 50 plugins at low latency will let you mix 500 tracks with 500 plugins at higher latency settings. (Ambiguous numbers there since plugins can vary but you get the idea.)

Also FYI
The sweet spot for lowest latency with the lowest CPU hit is running at 48k sample rate.
It's lower latency than 44.1k at the same block size (48k samples are smaller) for no more CPU hit. Going up to 96k crosses a line though and now you have more CPU use for the same target latency vs 48k. (And yes, normalizing by doubling the block size.)

The reported 7.8ms round trip at 48k at 128 sample block size is a decent spec actually. (They don't mention Reaper but it's going to line up with that. Protools of course is worse because it's Protools. That's also expected.) You won't be running many plugins with a 32 sample block size at 96k, so that 2.74ms spec is a little silly.

The claim is human perception of a lag starts at 11ms. If you're in headphones and really time sensitive it might be more around the 5-7ms range.

Last edited by serr; 07-06-2020 at 09:50 PM.
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Old 07-06-2020, 10:03 PM   #17
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Thanks for the info!!!
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Old 07-07-2020, 08:18 AM   #18
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After looking in Reaper this morning on my current old computer (new one arriving tomorrow!) My settings in Reaper are a requested sample rate of 44100 and requested block size of 144. When I was tinkering with things during setup a couple of years ago these settings were as good as I could get without pops and crackles and allow me to get a workable 7.1ms of latency.

Hopefully that bodes well for how the Scarlett will interact with the new system.
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Old 07-07-2020, 10:09 AM   #19
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Block size values divisible by 32 is recommended.
I'd put money on the bottleneck in your old machine being that old low performance HDD (5400rpm is the low performance HDD). Throw a SSD in there instead and mind the settings when you need low latency and you'll be golden. ("Mind the settings" leads to don't forget to put the block size back to 512 or 1024 samples when done overdubbing and back to mixing.) And 48k would get you a little extra processing headroom.
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Old 07-07-2020, 02:01 PM   #20
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I just read this regarding sample rate: "A piece of audio recorded at 44.1kHz will play back faster if played back at a sample rate of 48kHz" and also the opposite.

Does this apply to bit depth and buffer size in any way?

I'm glad I found this. I have a lot of unfinished projects.
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Old 07-07-2020, 02:14 PM   #21
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I just read this regarding sample rate: "A piece of audio recorded at 44.1kHz will play back faster if played back at a sample rate of 48kHz" and also the opposite.

Does this apply to bit depth and buffer size in any way?

I'm glad I found this. I have a lot of unfinished projects.
If you use an external sample rate clock and "trick" your interface into running at a different sample rate than you set it to. (So the display will still read 44.1k but you have an external sample rate clock running at 48k connected to a word clock input.) Then you would play back your 44.1k audio faster by running at 48k. Literally like running a tape deck motor faster.

You'd have to do all that to trick the system that way. Otherwise Reaper will sample rate convert non native sample rate audio to the project sample rate on the fly and always play it at the correct speed. Reaper is a unique DAW in that it is designed to let you work with multiple different sample rate sources in the same project. Doing sample rate conversion on the fly DOES use more CPU processing! Avoid that if you're running anything live.

Latency is not affected. The latency is what you set the block size to. Period. Full stop. (If that was a moving target, nothing would even be able to work!)

Bit depth does not affect latency. In fact even if you set the system to record only 16 bit, it's actually going to still run with 24 bit sample size data stream. It will just only record 16. Always stay with 24 bit from start to finish to consumer release. The only reason to ever reduce something to 16 bit is to prepare a version for a CD master.

So... Moving forward. Use 48k if you need to do live work. You'll get lowest latency with lowest CPU hit.
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Old 10-27-2020, 11:25 AM   #22
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thanks for latencymon!
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