Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER Pre-Release Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-23-2011, 07:11 AM   #1
White Tie
Pixel Pusher
 
White Tie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Blighty
Posts: 2,592
Default >>V4 : Theme 22 March Discussion - Read First Post



Changelog
  • Big rework. This theme has tested very well, bear with it.
  • Lots and lots of Walter for lots and lots of resizing intelligence.

Known problems / Limitations / Undone

Things which should be considered 'final'
  • Nothing
Overall
  • Bad meters. All meters. All Bad.
  • Almost all mouseover/mousedown states missing.
  • Faders yet to be addressed
  • Vertical Scrollbar bug on IO window, believed to be Reaper transparency bug.
  • Automation buttons don't use the 'pressed' appearance and colouring. Undecided.
  • Large pan knobs' pointer overruns the knob
Transport:
  • On states are ...contentious. Please advise ( < asking you a direct question, please!)
TCP
  • Particularly outrageous and blatant meter hack
  • Final layouts should be based on element heirarchy drawn from user feedback; these aren't.
  • Unknown top right hand corner artifact when icons present but hidden due to low track width
  • Track Icons don't do the vertical center thing; unavoidable.
  • Some layouts hide controls to improve clarity, for user to choose in appropriate circumstances. Obviously unsuited to inappropriate circumstances...
EnvCPs
  • Preliminary Walter
Inline ME
  • Untouched
Items
  • Return of the V3 strategy. We tried many things, this was always best. I think we have now proved this, if you think otherwise that's cool, but please bring powerful evidence.
Generics
  • Much yet to do.
  • Plugin knob pointer colour troubles.
__________________
The House of White Tie
White Tie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 07:28 AM   #2
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,297
Default

1. RMS Meter still ugly (please read the first post- WT)
2. Maintoolbar = grey background here (not dark grey as in your screenshot) (fixed in 56b- WT)
3. Playstate text = unreadable on small undocked transport (not a theme thing- WT)
4. Pan knobs = weird and almost unusable faders here (fixed in 56b- WT)

Last edited by White Tie; 03-23-2011 at 09:37 AM.
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 07:39 AM   #3
Steve36
Human being with feelings
 
Steve36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Geelong,Australia
Posts: 505
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Oops, the theme did not get put into the installer completely. I've taken the build down, we'll put it back as soon as all the parts are in.
From V4alpha56 thread...

Steve
Steve36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 07:46 AM   #4
timlloyd
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
Default

tcp fader right alignment looks off by 1 pixel

I really don't like the blobby mcp rec_arm button ...... why can it not just be in line with the other mcp buttons? I don't understand the need for it to be connected to the meter/fader area ...

//////

But ... I like it - looks nice.

... it's got the V3 logo on the master as well ...
timlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 07:53 AM   #5
flowbot
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 13
Default

I like this button :-) adds a kind of "organic" to the UI... please, don't replace'm!
flowbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 07:58 AM   #6
devez
Human being with feelings
 
devez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Espoo, Finland
Posts: 138
Default

I really like those maintoolbar buttons, colors and pictures much clearer.

About the "boot" on mcp rec arm button, maybe it could be extended to right, so that rec arm button would align with other buttons.

Sorry if I write badly, I just don't have the energy to keep dictionary open all the time
devez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 08:06 AM   #7
Vincent Sermonne
Human being with feelings
 
Vincent Sermonne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Marseille France
Posts: 6,004
Default

I love the theme but not the icons and there is not much choice to customize the floating and main toolbar. Thank's for your work !
__________________
Vincent
ReaperDrummer
http://www.tchackpoum.fr
Vincent Sermonne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 08:13 AM   #8
jonyjazy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 270
Default

"I really don't like the blobby mcp rec_arm button ...... why can it not just be in line with the other mcp buttons? I don't understand the need for it to be connected to the meter/fader area ..."

+++++1 on this
jonyjazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 08:16 AM   #9
Sexan
Human being with feelings
 
Sexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 2,452
Default

I would love if inputs have their own place in global layout on the mixer,so I can see in every moment which track is using which input
Sexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 08:23 AM   #10
d. gauss
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,386
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
Playstate text = unreadable on small undocked transport)
indeed.
d. gauss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 08:30 AM   #11
jonyjazy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 270
Default

Also would like to say those ultra shinny toolbars buttons( for exemple the green ) are very distractive. I can Iamgine docking a lot of toolbars
will be a lot of distraction to the eyes.


My two cents....
jonyjazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 08:43 AM   #12
griz lee
Human being with feelings
 
griz lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: in a hotel room near you
Posts: 1,175
Default

I think the new theme is very usable and extremely well considered from a graphic design standpoint.

A lovely piece of GUI art, in fact.

Is there any chance of a laptop layout where the TCP, when as thin as it can be, just shows the track number?

My screen is 1024 x 576 !
griz lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 08:55 AM   #13
BenK-msx
Human being with feelings
 
BenK-msx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Whales, UK
Posts: 5,677
Default

fine work on colours here, items nice.

anyway - a gripe is mixer, the mute and solo have got too small/insignificant related to their use, importance and for just easy clicking. they were bigger.

one ******* pan knob takes up the same space as mute & solo.

as previously stated i cannot fathom the reason for such large pan knobs they are an unnecessary visual distraction space hog on what are essentially set and forget items.

squint and look at mixer, all you see is pan stuff. then think how often you actually 'tweak' a pan knob or need to quickly know what a tracks pan setting is in a given session.


i like the white on dark faders - you say faders getting attention perhaps they are a touch 'high'/long at the mo.

overall its far better than before that's for sure, will it top rado we shall see! bestoluck.
BenK-msx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 09:05 AM   #14
Evan
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,519
Default

The media items in this theme I like, but I still don't understand: why do selected items = dark? Contrary to everything else in Reaper? Which also makes selected items look very close to muted items. I have modified a different theme to have selected items become brighter, and it works great.
Evan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 09:17 AM   #15
Alistair S
Human being with feelings
 
Alistair S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,495
Default

This is not from any extensive testing, but was just immediate reaction (which is hopefully also useful).

The overall look is very nice, and I like the way items are displayed.. very clear!

I couldn't find how to show pan width controls.. at all (and gave up) .. EDIT: Found it, it shows when you select stero panning. That's nice.

I couldn't discover how to alter the layout of the master in the mixer.

I tried the "tracking" layout in the TCP, expecting to see some big meters .. but didn't.

Hopefully, the forum will give some guidance as to the hows and whys over time.

Last edited by Alistair S; 03-23-2011 at 05:11 PM.
Alistair S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 09:42 AM   #16
joaobgb
Human being with feelings
 
joaobgb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lisboa
Posts: 224
Default

Great work!
Personally I feel the selected media item color doesn't work and the general pale green is not my favourite either, something like the grey and black used on the Bombardier plug-in would be beautiful in this design.
On the transport the rate fader stands out negatively, otherwise I like it.
joaobgb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 09:51 AM   #17
junkfood
Human being with feelings
 
junkfood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 130
Default Excellent!, just one thing..

I like the icon graphics just fine but not the difference between pressed and unpressed coloration states. The dark green (off) to light green (on) isn't as clear as the blue/gray (off) to green/light green (on) in v3.

I think it'd look better/be more clear without any green in the off state of the buttons. Not a super big deal to me, but I thought I'd mention it.

Anyway, that's about the only thing I can think of. I love how things are shaping up. Awesome work!
junkfood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 09:53 AM   #18
earlabs
Human being with feelings
 
earlabs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,122
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd View Post
I really don't like the blobby mcp rec_arm button ...... why can it not just be in line with the other mcp buttons? I don't understand the need for it to be connected to the meter/fader area ...

//////

But ... I like it - looks nice.
+ 1,000,000
Overall I like it a LOT but that button is just not okay. And knobs for pan... I dunno. Perhaps the little line should be thicker?
__________________
EARLabs Studio for Creative Mastering www.facebook.com/EARLabsStudio
WWW www.earlabs.org
earlabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 09:54 AM   #19
Steve36
Human being with feelings
 
Steve36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Geelong,Australia
Posts: 505
Default

I think the theme is clean,functional,and easy to get around...generally good contrast and labelling.

Steve
Steve36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 09:56 AM   #20
Steve36
Human being with feelings
 
Steve36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Geelong,Australia
Posts: 505
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by junkfood View Post
I think it'd look better/be more clear without any green in the off state of the buttons.
I do agree with this though...
Steve36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 10:05 AM   #21
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 10,411
Default

Great first, second and third impression.

The vertical TCP is nice. I have access to the FX button even though the TCP is real narrow.

As for the MCP, Large is a flavour I much prefer over standard, and Narrow is just great for larger mixes and it keeps all the elements available.

If anything I'd ask for impossible stuff, so I'll go back and use it a lot now and report back when I've got something more practical to contribute.
__________________
Dialogue/FX Editor & Re-Recording Mixer
(Video)Using Latch Preview
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 10:14 AM   #22
benf
Human being with feelings
 
benf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: France
Posts: 2,629
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan View Post
The media items in this theme I like, but I still don't understand: why do selected items = dark? Contrary to everything else in Reaper? Which also makes selected items look very close to muted items. I have modified a different theme to have selected items become brighter, and it works great.
Agree with this. Muted items color should be closer to backround.

Icon graphics should be darker when button's state is off.

Don't change anything on the blobby rec/arm button ! It gives life and fun on Reaper interface.

Anyway, it's a very fine job. I think I'll work with this GUI. All my thankfulness to the whole theme team and mainly to the greaaat WHITE TIE!!!
__________________
Listen and download my music on https://benest.bandcamp.com/
benf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 10:33 AM   #23
mabian
Human being with feelings
 
mabian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Italy
Posts: 3,604
Default

My 2 cents; I don't like very much the icon colours: instead of green I would have preferred by far yellow or white coupled with red; also, daltonic people could be happy about that, but for me it's more about too much green around.

The arrangement and all the rest are great though.

- Mario
__________________
My DAW: Intel i7700k @4.2GHz / 16GB RAM / RME Fireface UC / 250GB SSD / 2x2TB HD / Win10x64
My Music: http://www.reverbnation.com/errepici - http://www.errepici.it/web/contents.asp?sec=4
mabian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 10:57 AM   #24
politcat
Human being with feelings
 
politcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: stuck in transition
Posts: 1,850
Default

> overall brightness looks very good now (not too much so)

> icons blend in nicely without distracting (can we have more woodwind and brass?)

> selected track easy to distinguish without being too bright

> easy to distinguish folders and subfolders in both TCP and MCP

> color scheme is easy on the eyes

Overall, an excellent improvement
politcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 10:59 AM   #25
timlloyd
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joaobgb View Post
the general pale green is not my favourite either
completely yes ...

What is it with the green/blue?

First thing I would do to this theme (after fixing the mcp_recarm) is turn everything grey

If the underlying theme is based around greys ... then adding colour to items, groups, track backgrounds etc ... actually works - things are easily visible.

With colourful themes, adding more colours as mentioned ^^ just turns it into a big visual mess.

{I know I'm being harsh ... it's because I like the theme overall}
timlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 11:22 AM   #26
Tomm
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,244
Default

awesome, awesome work guys!!!

A few things I personally don't like:
1. The open/save icons are not like what I think every program I've used uses (folder/floppy)... and the disks are pretty behind the times... we're on SSD now (yes, I realize floppies are even older)
2. In general the top toolbar does look rather busy, and I don't care for the pastel-ey green. Just doesn't seem to match the rest of the theme.
3. Record-Arm button... like what others have said... just looks strange in that position. It also doesn't mimic the TCP rec-arm button
4. The mixer's FX on/off button feels like it should be below the FX button. Same with the IO (if you want them lined up)
5. The "indent" surrounding the big pan knob in the mixer doesn't seem to fit the shape well. Maybe it's the sharp corner on the bottom right of the knob interacting with the knobs shadow. I'd try making it the same as other pan knobs (where it doesn't surround the knob) or make the corners to the right of the knob not sharp.

Anyways, these are just nitpicks, I'd be happy to use this theme as-is, as long as the arrange/edit area is usable
Tomm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 12:26 PM   #27
Shan
Human being with feelings
 
Shan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 2,277
Default

Looking great so far theme team!

One thing I found is the red mute buttons when enabled can be confusing during the record process. At a quick glance during recording, I thought some of my muted tracks were in record mode, thus causing a bit of initial panic of course. It might be best making them the standard orange, or some other color other than red.

Shane
__________________
"Music should be performed by the musician not by the engineer."

Michael Wagener 25th July 2005, 02:59 PM
Shan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 12:51 PM   #28
d. gauss
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,386
Default

coupla things.

- on my 28 inch monitor, the mcp faders/meters are quite squashed n stubby in default view making them look like my overweight aunt millie sat on them.

- pan knob looks like an island in an ocean of potentially unused screen real estate.

- why do track numbers and track name/labels each have their own space, can't they be lovers and share the same bed?

- the location of i/o button for the master fader is inconsistent with that of channel faders.
d. gauss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 01:31 PM   #29
devez
Human being with feelings
 
devez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Espoo, Finland
Posts: 138
Default

layouts for different colour buttons?
devez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 02:05 PM   #30
dub3000
Human being with feelings
 
dub3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,831
Default

my vote on the transport on-state: feels like the light/dark highlights are reversed, at least compared to the FX buttons. the actual colours look good though.

overall comments:

* great work, very slick theme. (edit after using it for a couple of minutes: VERY slick theme, i'm a fan of this).
* ok, thoughts on TCP alternate layouts:
* normal TCP layout is just very nice now, except for the lack of FX button in the smallest layout.
* the 'tracking' layout would be a perfect reduced layout if the 'input fx' button was a regular fx button. this really would be great. not sure if i'd miss the M/R/S display but i definitely miss the FX button more.
* 'alt-1' layout is a bit grubby.
* MCP: pan knobs feel a bit chunky still, otherwise very good. nice strong lines.
* items look pretty good.
dub3000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 02:17 PM   #31
karl
Human being with feelings
 
karl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sheffield, England
Posts: 486
Default Hey! Drag handle on the drop shadow!

I'm loving the shadow effect on the TCP/Timeline separator! (Appears when dragged left). Gives the whole thing a bit more depth!

Overall though this is my favourite incarnation of theme so far, and for the first time ever feel like I'll probably be using the default theme as, well... my default theme!

And I LIKE the "blobby mcp rec_arm button". The "boot" shape draws the eye to where the re arm button is, and just gives REAPER a unique personality!

And the last thing it needs to do is be moved/stretched further right to align with the mute/solo buttons etc - I'm all for aligning to a grid, but this is a case where it's not necessary. Works better as it is I think, framing and off-setting the buttons nicely. I would look more claustrophobic if it was all perfectly aligned I think. This is especially true in the bigger version in the large layout I think.

I'm also REALLY liking the Big Meter and Narrow layouts on the MCP. Favourite thing about the very first R4 theme was the rounded bottom on the meters - glad to see it back here on the narrow layout!

Fader thumb could do with being a bit smaller in some layouts though. Looks a little 'squeezed' in n places...
karl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 02:17 PM   #32
politcat
Human being with feelings
 
politcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: stuck in transition
Posts: 1,850
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by d. gauss View Post
- why do track numbers and track name/labels each have their own space, can't they be lovers and share the same bed?
NO!

I take it you don't use a controller

I hate that there is no track number to relate to on folder tracks in v.3. The track number always needs to be somewhere
politcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 02:38 PM   #33
Ben Zero
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London, England
Posts: 678
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan View Post
The media items in this theme I like, but I still don't understand: why do selected items = dark? Contrary to everything else in Reaper? Which also makes selected items look very close to muted items. I have modified a different theme to have selected items become brighter, and it works great.
Agreed. This is HUGELY important and needs addressing. I have no idea what the thinking behind this would be - for those of us that spend our days editing this is something that simply needs to be very clear.
__________________
using REAPER professionally since 2006.
Ben Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 02:39 PM   #34
karl
Human being with feelings
 
karl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sheffield, England
Posts: 486
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by d. gauss View Post
- pan knob looks like an island in an ocean of potentially unused screen real estate.
But not every last nook and cranny needs to have something crammed in to it. It's just good to have 'breathing' room. And "White Space" (or rather green/blue space in this case!) is a feature of design that can aid visual organisation and clarity. As well as help things look more stylish

I'm generally a fan of Lamda's work, but his Rubik (https://stash.reaper.fm/theme/674/216%20Rubik.zip) theme suffers from a lack of 'space' I think - lots of things packed closely together, all nicely aligned but somehow just a little... chaotic! (in my opionion of course!). Things are just harder to find.

Quote:
- why do track numbers and track name/labels each have their own space, can't they be lovers and share the same bed?
A "No" from me as well! I like the clarity given by the vertical column of numbers the current track number location gives
karl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 02:42 PM   #35
Ben Zero
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London, England
Posts: 678
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd View Post
completely yes ...

What is it with the green/blue?

First thing I would do to this theme (after fixing the mcp_recarm) is turn everything grey

If the underlying theme is based around greys ... then adding colour to items, groups, track backgrounds etc ... actually works - things are easily visible.

With colourful themes, adding more colours as mentioned ^^ just turns it into a big visual mess.

{I know I'm being harsh ... it's because I like the theme overall}
I've been saying this for ages. This obsession with green is a bit bonkers. The apparent justification is that green is a 'restful' colour for the eyes. It is... in nature. There's a reason no other DAW or creative app uses green as a core colour...

I totally agree that sticking to greys/whites for the main interface elements is the way to go. Colours should be used to highlight important aspects of the UI as you suggest.
__________________
using REAPER professionally since 2006.
Ben Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 02:46 PM   #36
Ben Zero
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London, England
Posts: 678
Default

I'm really not sure at all about the toolbar icons. The designs aren't as clear as I think they could be but mainly my gripe is that they should have a grey background, ie like the mute/solo buttons. So then with blacks/greys/colours on top. The black background to the icons is a bit, well, dark. I also think the other very dark aspects of the interface should go and be lightened. Too much contrast.
__________________
using REAPER professionally since 2006.
Ben Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 02:50 PM   #37
typewriter
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 527
Default Black send levels

The send levels are black on dark grey.

Maybe those should be green, too.
typewriter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 02:59 PM   #38
Ben Zero
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London, England
Posts: 678
Default

So has it been decided that we're having pan pots over sliders on the default, then? I'm not a fan at all - it makes no sense to have something so tied to hardware on software. In this case, with panning, it makes total sense to be dragging left or right with a slider as, erm, this obviously corresponds with left and right! Rather than dragging up and down on pan pot to achieve the same thing without the intuitiveness; why would you want to do that?
__________________
using REAPER professionally since 2006.

Last edited by Ben Zero; 03-23-2011 at 03:10 PM.
Ben Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 03:19 PM   #39
d. gauss
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,386
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by politcat View Post
NO!

I take it you don't use a controller

I hate that there is no track number to relate to on folder tracks in v.3. The track number always needs to be somewhere
yes, i use 3 controllers.
my point is that the faders are really, really short in the default state, even on a 28 inch monitor! partly, because there's a giant, wide, strip being used for a 1 or two digit track ID number, and also a strip used for the track name. couldn't they sit next to each other, giving more vertical real estate for the fader/meter?
d. gauss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 03:24 PM   #40
d. gauss
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,386
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karl View Post
But not every last nook and cranny needs to have something crammed in to it. It's just good to have 'breathing' room.
hey, i'm all for space (WT's gorgeous, unfinished imperial anyone?), but as i've mentioned, the faders/meters are getting squished here. i.e. no breathing at all, 'cause something is sitting on them.
d. gauss is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.