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Old 12-30-2010, 04:01 PM   #1
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Default >>V4 : Theme 30dec Discussion - Read First Post

Theme progress has been added to the latest build.



Some MCP layouts. Theme 'about' is a layout of the MCP Master



Changelog
  • Shifted some focus from walter development to making it look nice
  • Visual styling
  • Saturation level of many elements reduced 5%
  • Fader opacity increased at edges
  • Dots removed from vertical scrollbars
  • Monitor button colour changes
  • Item bg and waveform colour trial
  • TCP folder indents reverted to previous version
  • New TCP Folder handling and collapse solution
  • Some new secondary MCP layouts (candidates), inc knobs
  • MIDI editor / VMK keys
  • Transport WALTER rebuild (docked & undocked)

Known problems / Limitations / Undone

Things which are complete and should be considered 'final'
  • Nothing

Transport:
  • New record button on-states are placeholder.

Toolbar:
  • Temporary icons & styling. Yes, they suck.

TCP
  • Best practice on the folder buttons is still unclear.
  • Folder handling buttons replace track number when height low, unkonwn if best compromise
  • No new layouts, inc no knob layouts (too soon)
  • Temporary VUs, LOTS of problems
  • Numerous on state colours are initial
  • '&width' layouts pan & width backgrounds unchanged
  • Unknown top right hand corner artifact when icons present but hidden due to low track width
  • '&width' layouts will be merged into others once we've figured out what to do with the faderbg stretching; not done yet.
  • Master track stereo has wrong border colour.

MCP:
  • Top border between buttons and name is 1px too small (epic walter tweak required)
  • Numerous on state colours are initial
  • New expert layout is cramped and grotty; also some button backgrounds are almost invisible
  • Temporary VUs, LOTS of problems inc. when width shrunk (narrow layouts or multi-channel tracks), irregular widths.
  • Min height set to suit standard layout (nanny state). Users of expert layout can change mcp_min_height to lower if preferred.
  • Knobs broken on several layouts when stereo pan is set and walter is overridden.
  • '&width' layouts will be merged into others once we've figured out what to do with the faderbg stretching; not done yet.
  • 'full' layout incomplete (input FX sloppy)

EnvCPs
  • Untouched.

MIDI editor
  • 90% Untouched

Inline ME
  • Untouched

Items
  • Item buttons untouched
  • Best contrast ratios are WIPs for item bgs and waveforms to allow "light selected waveform overlapping dark unselected waveform" (uses selection borders, with all their usual problems - lesser of 3 evils compromise?)

Generics
  • Mostly untouched

---------------------------------------

OK, single thread then... heh.

This thread will not be policed; clearly that was ineffective and unpopular. But the same realities apply; we're not really interested in your opinion, we're interested in your discussion ...if you can't convince each other then we have no way of validating your opinion; it will be disregarded. However, if you have a good idea or convincing argument, well then that's gold on its own terms. Yes please.

If you have something to contribute we welcome it with open arms, that is the entire purpose of including theme development in the pre process, but please recognise that it is in your interests as much as ours that discussions remain noise-free, or the entire thread (including your contribution) will become impossible to follow and its worth lost. Noise includes Feature Requests (we just theme), OT, failure to recognise this is an alpha, or posting without reading the entire thread.

OK, the discussion is in your hands ...good luck everyone
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:21 PM   #2
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i had some comments in the other thread but they're mostly acknowledged by your comments here.

just wanted to say: thanks for getting the folder indents right, and i like the colour scheme. looks good here

edit: oh, but the pan sliders in the TCP still look a bit weird to me when the TCP panel is wide enough so that text is shown to the left of the pan slider. when it's narrower (as in your pic) it looks fine though.
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:25 PM   #3
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Before I paste my feedback on the new theme (from the older thread), here's two of my major complaints that still persist:

1) The pan control is not visible in the TCP, even with moderate tracks sizes. This is an important issue that is easily resolved (e.g. vertical meters, smaller horizontal fader thumbs etc)

2) The fader range is limited in the MCP, compared to the vertical space the mixer occupies. (working with a typical 15.6" laptop monitor, 768p vertical resolution).

And here's the paste I promised...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan
alpha22 is released with a new revision of the theme, and here are my first impressions:

The pluses:

+ I like the highlighted selected items. In general I like whatever is selected, to be very obviously so.
+ Much better handling of folder tracks (TCP buttons). Less prone to errors (distance between two folder buttons)
+ Better looking scrollbars, now very readable
+ Liking the new toolbar buttons style, monochrome and neutral
+ The 'monitor' button feels right. Not pressed when not active.



The minuses:

- (TCP) Still no pan control on relatively medium track sizes

- A lot of grey gradients. I preferred the previous v4 alpha theme in the sense that it was flatter. The MCP especially looks washed out. The buttons and labels are hard to read, especially when they are colored. Pastel colors over light greys = not a good idea. I definitely liked the previous iteration of the theme in regards to the MCP look. Cleaner and more readable.

- Horizontal meters on the TCP on medium-small track heights. Don't like it. Vertical meters and more room for track label and a pan control please.

- Dislike the new transport a lot (i.e. big round buttons). Loved the previous one. Purely aesthetics.

- Cannot get the mixer to be as small (height) as in previous versions. (?)

- Horizontal fader knobs still bigger than they need be (unchanged)
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:27 PM   #4
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First impressions are..

1_ that once you start using colours on tracks it all looks great but the grey is a little low on contrast before then.

2_Love the folder icons for mcp hiding/showing, great way of doing

3_love the amount of stuff fitted in there

4_I think this has been discussed before (and given a reason why it's like this) but am I the only who thinks the below image makes more sense (even badly done like mine)



Needs doing well obviously but I think having the fader centred just looks more natural.

5_prefer older icon set, these are a little too big and soft (whatever that means)

Last edited by musicbynumbers; 12-30-2010 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:34 PM   #5
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WT, why did you choose the chalky pastel type colors for the meters? Shouldn't the meter colors be more vivid like meters on a real mixer? Even an option to dim or brighten the meters (brightness and color saturation) would be great (like the dim/bright adjustment on a vehicles instrument cluster). Just a suggestion... : )
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:51 PM   #6
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The meters!!! Black they looked so sofisticated!!!! Noooo!!!! Overall it looks great though. But I LOOOVED the black for the Track names in the TCP, and the same black for the meters...
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
Toolbar:
  • Temporary icons & styling. Yes, they suck.
Glad you said that! I was thinking the icon shapes were looking a little Disney-esque!

However, I've often preferred custom themes which opted to have no icon background (button) - I think such icons occupy that corner space much better than icons that have a square background.

I think this is particularly true when you're rescaling the TCP area horizontally. At certain widths you end up with empty space to the right of the icons - this is made more pronounced/obvious when the icons have a button background. *Without* the background image, the empty space just looks more... natural I think, as it's the same empty space flowing around the icons.

It also helps the are look less cluttered, although the current cartoony icons may be a little on the large side, making them look a bit tightly packed.

In a nutshell: I like toolbar icons with no background image!
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Old 12-30-2010, 05:08 PM   #8
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Ok first of all, let's acknowledge that this is a very nice improvement in many areas. Nice work guys, lots of excellent details added and problems fixed. My favorites are the clearer IO buttons, the rounded edges on elements, the more emphasized item selection and the new scroll bars and transport buttons.

That said...
1) Why not flip the send and receive words next to the IO button, to match the order on the button (which I would say is more logical, since a track receives audio/midi and then outputs after)? So it would be RCV SEND. And then why not color each word to match its color state on the button for better immediate clarity?

2) While I like the meter activity color, I think the background behind it (I'm talking about the background on top of which meter activity appears, the darker grey) should be darker, to make that area stand out and really emphasize "hey, watch this space because action's going to happen here". Since it is the only area of the panel that always has animation, I think it makes sense to add some contrast there. I like the philosophy you guys have of trying to keep things mostly neutral, but you can add spatters of vivid or dark colors here and there to make things more visually appealing and clear.

3) How about a volume knob on the "meter only" layout, so you can at least change the volume (kind of important on a mixer) with that admittedly very nice and minimal layout?

That's all I have to add to the discussion for now. That "full" layout is pretty messy but I'm not sure what I'd do with it right now.

[edit] Oh I almost forgot... that clip indicator still blends in way too much... Clipping is a big deal! Can't it be bright red, with a bit more height so it isn't almost totally obstructed by the peak dB text?
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Old 12-30-2010, 05:17 PM   #9
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Still prefer the black writing on whitish background for bottom set of buttons because of some monitors there is not enough contrast.

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Old 12-30-2010, 05:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karl View Post
*Without* the background image, the empty space just looks more... natural I think, as it's the same empty space flowing around the icons.
Maybe some pictures to compare will help show what I mean:

Toolbar icons with a button background look 'heavier' to the left, creating an obvious empty space to the right:



But without a background image, the empty space on the right looks more natural, as it becomes just part of the background that the images are on:



Also seen here:



And here:

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Old 12-30-2010, 05:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
Still prefer the black writing on whitish background for bottom set of buttons because of some monitors there is not enough contrast.

Yeah I think lack of contrast is a problem for a few different places.
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Old 12-30-2010, 05:50 PM   #12
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Since this is such a light pastel theme, reducing the saturation 5%, though a small change, makes things flatter. For me, this is the wrong direction. So far, I've been reading lots of comments about "washed out", "too pastel", "too grey". I agree.

The track odd/even backgrounds: I think that much very bright screen space is way too jarring. I have 2 24" screens, and after 8 hours of work, my eyes get sore! I went to prefs, and made those just a bit darker, and that helped.

Also, I find the selected track hard to locate. Does anyone else have that issue? I really want it to jump out.
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Old 12-30-2010, 06:13 PM   #13
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Interesting. I'm using this theme for about an hour now, and after the initial shock of the meter colours I'm getting extremely fond of a lot of it.

From that limited time I think the folder visualization is bloody clever, as are the minimum-height-TCP meters. The text and background colours respond very well to strong colours and I have an easy time finding tracks by name.

What I like a lot is that only active elements stand out. The I/O button changes are VERY bloody clever. Whoever came up with the "I" and "O" colouring for the respective send and receive visualization deserves a cookie.

I have a relatively easy time reading the insert and send text, which is alright considering they're so small to begin with.


Items are easier to spot when selected, though is still cocking things up without a proper track-local range selection, insisting you can only select complete items like some monochromatic old midi sequencer from 1993.


The FX button when active is a bit of a cockup to me. Small green text on a dark grey background. Well, it's not great. I mostly identify the FX button by colour and its little bypass button, but I hardly every read the FX text on it well enough for it to matter.


Icons. I like those shapes a lot actually. They're so different from one another and fit in to the frame of a toolbar button that I'm having no trouble whatsoever yet in identifying the status of some functions, like auto crossfades and trim behind items.


Transport. Now that's good loooking and easy to find alright, and the the repeat button just jumps out at you in a lit state. Nice work. In a docked state the transport bar seemingly cannot be resized to the same height as in the undocked state. I've reported this in the alpha22 thread. WALTER Cockup ?
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Old 12-30-2010, 06:44 PM   #14
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One small thing that makes no sense to me is the rollover on empty fx slots in the MCP.
I mean it's not like we can load an effect in a particular slot.
I am fairly certain it would only be me that thinks about this haha.
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Old 12-30-2010, 06:46 PM   #15
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Default track indicators should perhaps go on the outside of track icons

As when you add envelopes the indicators no longer line up vertically

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Old 12-30-2010, 06:46 PM   #16
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There are some nice improvements to the theme (the icons, scrollbars and buttons are much better now) but the overall color scheme / contrast / layout is still far from perfect:

- Too much grey on grey: just look at the BPM selection box or the volume / pan level text in the TCP for example - it's very hard to read. MCP VU meters are even worse: white text on grey background is not what you call ergonomic.

- The theme feels hazy and washed out (low-contrast) - it needs darker shades / more black.
In the future, please test the theme on a low contrast (standard) LCD monitor. Just think of all those laptop / netbook users with sub-par LCD displays - the new theme doesn't look good on those screens.

- Faders and meters are way too small and the TCP tracks have a huge problem: when resizing a track, the labels get resized much more than the meters. We need longer meters, not longer labels with useless padding.
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Old 12-30-2010, 06:46 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
[*] Folder handling buttons replace track number when height low, unknown if best compromise.
I think that it is fine, compromises with what can be shown at near minimum track height have to be made and with folder(/any) tracks the track number isn't really important anyway. This solution makes it even more blindingly obvious that a folder track is a folder track so it's great.

Any objections?
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:21 PM   #18
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The left (top) channel bars in the TCP VU meters are thinner than the right (bottom) ones - looks weird. The MCP VU meters don't have this problem.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:33 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synth View Post
Why is the left (top) channel bar in the TCP VU meters thinner than the right one (bottom)? It looks weird / bad. The MCP VU meters don't have this problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
TCP
  • Temporary VUs, LOTS of problems.

MCP:
  • Temporary VUs, LOTS of problems inc. when width shrunk (narrow layouts or multi-channel tracks), irregular widths.
Known problem.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:35 PM   #20
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The transparent faders must go, as mentioned in the older discussion by some.
The brightest, biggest and most prominent elements in the MCP right now are the M and S buttons. It really should be the volume fader, the pan fader and the meters. Mute and Solo buttons are better left subtle (unless pressed). No reason to be attention grabbers.

The transparent faders look cool at first glance, but they appear visually complex (just for the sake of it). Especially when compared to the rest of the theme, which is rather simple. If the rest of the buttons had a 'glass' look then they would probably fit better.

So, I recommend opaque faders, not too complex visually (shades and all), and clearly visible/separated compared to their background.


Another point: the SAVE and LOAD buttons look too similar, esp. from a distance. They need to be differentiated better for easily understandable reasons. (unless you enjoy saving by accident once in a while, when all you wanted to do is load another project)
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:50 PM   #21
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i think people's personal usage of item/track coloring will weigh heavily on whether they like all the gray used throughout the theme. if you do not use a good amount of item/track coloring you will probalbly not like this theme.

i think the screeenshot in WT's original post shows the theme looking its best, with individual item colors providing relief from all the gray. if you use item colors like that this theme might not bother you too much.

i tried using some track colors to see if that would help the theme in my eyes, but then i noticed the TCP meters on thin tracks have a contrast issue:



the contrast by the TCP meters when the tracks are thin like that is distracting and not too appealing. even with the different track colors the meter section bunched together like that doesn't look good.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:53 PM   #22
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not sure if this is the right place to mention it, but I think TCP layouts need a little love soon. I highly encourage you to improve upon my failed experiment:


I call it "MaxNarrow"

you would need to swap the directon of the arm button border so it connects to the vertical label on the bottom when it's over 50 (or whatever) pixels. I'm not going to do any more work on it because it takes me hours and hours to make a minuscule amount of progress and it's not really worth it when the final theme may be vastly different.

in the screenshot, at the top...
when the vertical size is as small as it can go, there is supposed to be the FX bypass LED-looking thing so I FX are bypassable. no "FX" label though in that view. the positions are a bit screwed up because I just pasted my layout from last v4 theme into this newer one. very dark grey knobs with a light indicator might also look better against the light background.

here's a few notes about my choices:
- I think people don't use the phase button very much so I hid it for most heights.
- I love my horizontal real estate and don't really need faders, hence the all-knobs. I can fade my heart out in the MCP.
- vertical meters. they are awesome.
- the folder icon sits in that gutter, but perhaps it should be to the right of the trim/io/input buttons in a gutter between them and the fx/volume label/pan label...
- FX bypass only in the vertically slimmest state because i often need to bypass a bunch of FX on tracks of that height, but don't often need to bring up the FX selection window.

challenges:
- the right and leftmost areas are being used, wich puts a damper on folder icon location. it's worth it to me, but others may disagree.
- same with the track number. it's not on the outmost edge where one might expect it to be, but I don't think it's very hard to find either way.
- would prefer to have invisible knobs over the top of the volume and pan labels. might be confusing for new folks though.

Last edited by pixeltarian; 12-30-2010 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 12-30-2010, 08:04 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
track indicators should perhaps go on the outside of track icons.. As when you add envelopes the indicators no longer line up vertically
I agree that doesn't look so good, but I wouldn't want to move the trak indicators to the end - I think they act as a good separator, creating a divide between the main panel and the track icon - this creates a self-contained 'square' for the icon to go into, and just look sleeker, more professional and just more aesthetically pleasing imo.

Below: Looks good as it is I think, with self contained icon 'box':



Below: Not so good IMO. Not so tidy or finished looking:



I don't think this is possible, but maybe when track icons are used, perhaps the automation lane panel could look more like this:

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Old 12-30-2010, 08:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slops View Post
i think people's personal usage of item/track coloring will weigh heavily on whether they like all the gray used throughout the theme. if you do not use a good amount of item/track coloring you will probalbly not like this theme.
i never bother colouring anything, and yeah... it is all a bit monochromatic from a distance.

i'm on record as kinda liking the colour of the initial v4 ui, btw. i may have preferred the square transport buttons as well, fwiw. EDIT i mean the main transport thing, the round record and loop buttons make sense as-is.
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:15 PM   #25
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apologies if this isn't the right place for questions like this, though I can't seem to change the color of track titles with the "track panel text"

the color in the pref's changes though in the TCP the track title stays grey regardless....

will delete this post if it's "noise"

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Old 12-30-2010, 10:07 PM   #26
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Huh, I didn't notice how nice the replacement for the phase invert button is. But I noticed 2 more issues:

- There isn't enough contrast between the send slot background and the bar representing the send amount. Why does it have to be semi-dark grey on medium grey instead of some nice colors?

- Black keys on the VKB and MIDI editor up/down states are virtually identical in appearance. Maybe add some lighting accents on the up state?
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:09 PM   #27
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+1
vol/pan knobs layout regardless of track size.
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:20 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broman View Post
- Black keys on the VKB and MIDI editor up/down states are virtually identical in appearance. Maybe add some lighting accents on the up state?
+1

They're almost pitch black (no good).
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:20 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broman View Post
...How about a volume knob on the "meter only" layout, so you can at least change the volume (kind of important on a mixer) with that admittedly very nice and minimal layout?...
I see "meter only" as being for those of us who want to use REAPER as a multitrack recorder, with a separate mixer. In that case, we want the meters to be as tall as practical, and, with each track feeding a different external fader, don't need to move playback level off unity. It's nice to see lots of tracks on the mixer screen at once as well.
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:39 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
Still prefer the black writing on whitish background for bottom set of buttons because of some monitors there is not enough contrast.

not a fan of the new look. i definitely prefer the previous.
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:48 PM   #31
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Quote:
The transparent faders must go
EVAN says that...

I totally disagree... I like them here and on my own V3 went some effort to make transparent faders...

I have my own opinion about what a fader can look like, not based on some preconceived image of a plastic hardware thing that was designed to fit your finger tip... YOU don't ever touch these with your finger do you? [touch screen users are excused]

So for me ... a fader needs to be an area easily grabbed by the mouse, and easily noticed amid the rest of the visuals. Color helps, brightness helps even more. In my own V3 the fader handles are small to the eye, but big to the mouse due to totally invisible area in the png around what you can see. But even though small, they ARE brighter... and that IMO is what makes them stand out to the eye.
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Old 12-31-2010, 12:19 AM   #32
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I like that vertical label for a smallish layout like you've mocked up...

I tend to work at the smallest size... Here is a mockup for what I think would work great for the smallest size... A lot of room for the label, realtively long throw pan and volume faders, mute and solo, meters, and an FX button.

A better font would bring out the text more.

Actually the vertical meters would be fine in the same setup.

Perhaps this could be an optional mode in the same way that the MCP can have wide, normal, meter only etc.




Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeltarian View Post
not sure if this is the right place to mention it, but I think TCP layouts need a little love soon. I highly encourage you to improve upon my failed experiment:


I call it "MaxNarrow"

you would need to swap the directon of the arm button border so it connects to the vertical label on the bottom when it's over 50 (or whatever) pixels. I'm not going to do any more work on it because it takes me hours and hours to make a minuscule amount of progress and it's not really worth it when the final theme may be vastly different.

in the screenshot, at the top...
when the vertical size is as small as it can go, there is supposed to be the FX bypass LED-looking thing so I FX are bypassable. no "FX" label though in that view. the positions are a bit screwed up because I just pasted my layout from last v4 theme into this newer one. very dark grey knobs with a light indicator might also look better against the light background.

here's a few notes about my choices:
- I think people don't use the phase button very much so I hid it for most heights.
- I love my horizontal real estate and don't really need faders, hence the all-knobs. I can fade my heart out in the MCP.
- vertical meters. they are awesome.
- the folder icon sits in that gutter, but perhaps it should be to the right of the trim/io/input buttons in a gutter between them and the fx/volume label/pan label...
- FX bypass only in the vertically slimmest state because i often need to bypass a bunch of FX on tracks of that height, but don't often need to bring up the FX selection window.

challenges:
- the right and leftmost areas are being used, wich puts a damper on folder icon location. it's worth it to me, but others may disagree.
- same with the track number. it's not on the outmost edge where one might expect it to be, but I don't think it's very hard to find either way.
- would prefer to have invisible knobs over the top of the volume and pan labels. might be confusing for new folks though.
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Old 12-31-2010, 12:53 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicchord View Post
I see "meter only" as being for those of us who want to use REAPER as a multitrack recorder, with a separate mixer. In that case, we want the meters to be as tall as practical, and, with each track feeding a different external fader, don't need to move playback level off unity. It's nice to see lots of tracks on the mixer screen at once as well.
Hmm I like to think they'd be applicable to more situations than that, but in your case, wouldn't you use the mute/solo switches on your external mixer too?
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Old 12-31-2010, 01:50 AM   #34
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so much great stuff, i hate to criticize, I have to say though, these pastels are killin me

[IMG]http://img821.**************/img821/6526/screenshot20101231at143.png[/IMG]



though I'm sure sure smurfette would be in her glory,

is this color scheme\darkness governed by themable elements?

I change them manually, though to get nice colours here I have to be no higher than about 4% on the color wheel darkness

just some thoughts
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Old 12-31-2010, 01:54 AM   #35
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Hey I just noticed that when the TCP is wide enough, faders jump to the top row, but when you arm the track they flip back to the second row... what's up with that?

Also when the TCP gets wider the phase button becomes detached and looks awkward on its own. But this is an alpha so I'm sorry if that's something you guys didn't have time to get to etc...
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Old 12-31-2010, 02:18 AM   #36
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I like how the theme is progressing, looks like attention to detail was put into developing aspects of this. Really like the new buttons.

Suggestions for PRV:
-The image at the right of the PRV, the actual piano keyboard, make the natural (white) keys lighter or atleast less shaded.
-For the actual Piano roll where notes are entered make the natural keys lighter so they are more white and slightly make the accidentals darker.

Not a major change, just makes it easier to look at.

Question, I am unsure if this is Walter or Reaper related...in between each object in the arrange screen (the blocks) there is a slight space. Is it possible to remove this? Might make the design more fluid.
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Old 12-31-2010, 02:53 AM   #37
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To me, it looks flat and dull.

Without track background gradients all tracks just blend into one big flat mish-mash of buttons and faders. Repulsive.
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Old 12-31-2010, 03:23 AM   #38
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Don't know where to put this really...

The default theme as it is now, has another idea about what "Show maximum rows even when tracks would fit in less" means, than other themes.

With this default theme I cannot get more than two rows, no matter how many tracks I have. Switching to other themes (Crypto, PT9 Waltered, Janne4Silver1, Default_3.0, Classic_1.x) I get three rows. I want three rows...

Better yet, I want to be able to manually define the number of rows, but that's for another thread.

PS. I just want to add... I love lots of details about this theme. Maybe the pastels are a little... well... "off", but except for that, I like the rest very much. Just give me three mixer rows...
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Old 12-31-2010, 03:37 AM   #39
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The last color scheme before v4.0 alpha22 was great.
This one is not.
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Old 12-31-2010, 04:06 AM   #40
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How do you guys get the colours anyway? I have a clean install on OSX and when I set a track colour the only thing changing is the colour of the TCP label. All itmes on the track stay grey.

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