Old 12-01-2010, 08:25 PM   #1
Lawrence
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Default "R4 Pre-Release Impressions"

I give it a 7.35 on a scale of 10.

Some really, really nice stuff there and I suspect WALTER will result in some really innovative new themes. I generally like the new GUI especially in the mixer with some caveats but I do see some dedicated WALTER coder / themer doing all kinds of useful things there. I love the concept and although the default theme is really much better than anything in the 3.x cycle (imo, ymmv), there are a few odd choices there in the default.

Hopefully we'll see lots of new themes coming and or varying modifications of the default.

On the other side of the coin, I am slightly disappointed by the lack of true non-contiguous free area/range selection and an Inspector (I really thought that was coming). I'm also a little annoyed that I can't hide my TCP meters anymore (apparently) without digging into WALTER. I don't track/record much in Reaper but when I do I use the docked mixer and hide the TCP meters.

Overall, really good stuff. Great work.

Last edited by Tallisman; 12-02-2010 at 01:50 AM.
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:19 PM   #2
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you haven't seen R4 yet, however.
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:28 PM   #3
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Still early days and should be enough chances till final release to push all we desire onto cockos and see what sticks!
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:37 PM   #4
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...like plug in control via mackie control... ...for mac...
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:43 PM   #5
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you haven't seen R4 yet, however.
Yeah, I know... if you can find a mod to change the thread title to "R4 Pre-Release Impressions" so nobody gets confused feel free.

I assumed that was ... assumed... when I typed the title... that it was my impression of the first couple of pre-release builds. Release candidate #3, 2-3 months from now or whatever might be entirely different.

I get that.
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:43 PM   #6
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I have mixed feelings. At first, I honestly hated the new theme, but figured it wasn't a big deal as custom themes would be released.

Then I tried on my home computer with the bigger monitor and it was a BIG improvement. On the laptop, it's just cluttered to me in it's default settings.

After reading what COULD be possible with Walter, I see that in time, some great themes can be created. But the default definitely is not my favorite. Take the folders for instance. You can barely tell what is a folder and what isn't.

Also, I had a couple of times where adding a plug-in took as much as 30 seconds where it usually took three or four. I can't reproduce with a specific plug though, so I'll keep trying.

I'm still digging into other features, finding things I like along with some things I don't like the implementation of. And really, not much work on the MIDI editing(not really features, but polishing and workflow issues).

I'm sure we'll see lots of improvement over the coming weeks, so I'll withhold judgement. But I hope it doesn't end up like the disaster with the inline editor. When the R3 beta started, I was excited about that, just to find out that it got very little work in the polishing stage, and still to this day is very unpleasant to work with.

It's just too easy to get hooked on adding MORE features without refining what is already there. That's one thing that bothers me at times about Reaper. SO MUCH potential, but needs refinement.

I hope this doesn't happen with some of the features added in R4, as there is some potential there if done right. Here's hoping!

Still enjoying the beta despite the issues.

Brent
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
I give it a 7.35 on a scale of 10.
I'd give it 7.36 any day of the week.

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Old 12-01-2010, 09:58 PM   #8
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I'm bummed we still can't display track inserts on track panel..




Having this would save me from having to use a 2nd screen to place the mixer..
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:06 PM   #9
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It's still way too early in the 4.0 cycle to form a real opinion so right now I'm at the stage where I've noticed what hasn't been implemented (yet) and am slightly disappointed. However, I'm constantly finding cool new things, like the track manager for example that have a lot of potential, so I think once I have time to wrap my head around all the new stuff (some 'what's new explained' LICEcaps will help), I'll be blown away.

My top FR's for Reaper 4.0 (final):


-Freeze.
I just got a brand new really fast computer, and still think this is highly important.

-Global Quantization.

Accurate 'start on bar/beat' action, API addition for accurate timing, anything really. Reaper doesn't necessarily need to turn into Ableton Live, but if it could replicate some functions of the Gibson Echoplex or Roland Loopstation guitar pedals it could finally come out of the studio and onto the stage, becoming a powerful instrument, a member of the band, and the ultimate live effects rack. Having musicians using the software for live performance probably wouldn't hurt sales and brand recognition either.

-Session/Matrix View
. The new drum sampler Geist has this now too. It's an amazingly powerful and rewarding composition/experimentation feature and combined with the feature above would be mind-blowing. The first R in Reaper stands for rapid, and there really is no more rapid way than this, so this feature would be a great fit for the Reaper 'philosophy'.

-ReaEQ Spectrum
and some overall Reaplug polishing.


Looking good so far, keep up the amazing work Cockos!
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:19 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by PitchSlap View Post

-Global Quantization.

Accurate 'start on bar/beat' action, API addition for accurate timing, anything really. Reaper doesn't necessarily need to turn into Ableton Live, but if it could replicate some functions of the Gibson Echoplex or Roland Loopstation guitar pedals it could finally come out of the studio and onto the stage, becoming a powerful instrument, a member of the band, and the ultimate live effects rack. Having musicians using the software for live performance probably wouldn't hurt sales and brand recognition either.
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:22 PM   #11
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I'm bummed we still can't display track inserts on track panel..




Having this would save me from having to use a 2nd screen to place the mixer..
There have definitely been some inroads to this with WALTER. I won't pretend to know Cocko's plans, but we're alot closer to this than we were before.
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:24 PM   #12
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There have definitely been some inroads to this with WALTER. I won't pretend to know Cocko's plans, but we're alot closer to this than we were before.
It's gotta be possible with WALTER...
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:31 PM   #13
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It's gotta be possible with WALTER...
It's not currently possible, if that's what you mean, but all Cockos has to do is add support for the use of those mixer ui elements in the tcp. I don't what it takes but I can't imagine it being too far off.
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:43 PM   #14
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is there a way to make my horizontal meters vertical in the TCP yet?
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:49 PM   #15
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is there a way to make my horizontal meters vertical in the TCP yet?
Yes, this is possible with WALTER. If you don't want to mess with coding it yourself, you'll have to use a theme that includes vertical meters as part of a layout for the tcp. I don't think the v4 skin has this yet. It will work with any of the older skins though, I believe. Options>layouts>track panel>vertical meters
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:50 PM   #16
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is there a way to make my horizontal meters vertical in the TCP yet?
yup.

got to options/layouts/track panel/ and then pick vertical meters.

(the vertical meters option is not available on the default theme though, so you have to pick a different theme to do this).


would be awesome if you could set all tracks to automatically collapse to vertical meters ONLY when the track is too small to hold horizontal meters.
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:22 PM   #17
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would be awesome if you could set all tracks to automatically collapse to vertical meters ONLY when the track is too small to hold horizontal meters.
I'm pretty sure you can. I'm not going to code it though...
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:52 PM   #18
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I haven't played with r4 yet much, but i found the default skin much better than the previous ones by far, but still it's not perfect for me, but i don't care at all about that really, because i loaded up the current theme i'm using into it, and it works out great, which is awesome because i can't imagine ever wanting any other theme than the one i have loaded right now.

a couple things though in my short visit to r4 that i didn't like were that when you stretched open the track pane, the toolbar buttons moved around and got larger and stuff. i assume this behaviour is customizable, but i haven't found the option for it yet.

another thing i didn't really like was that the stereo and widening pans were side by side, i think i'd prefer them stacked like in mixer view. mostly because that way i can always access them while keeping my tracks pane smaller. i don't mind making the tracks larger vertically to access these because i'm always changing the size of those anyways, and like to keep them large enough to begin with.

another small thing, that i guess you'd just be used to quickly but noobs might find it annoying or confusing, is that the widening tool and regular pan don't have any discriminating features such as in mixer view, unless you hover over them.

i just played with r4 quickly, didn't really try to record or go into depth with it or anything, but so far, i've liked the changes and i like the way i could use my old theme without any difficulties.

what i'd like to be able to do though, is a list of all the new actions/menu options, because i have highly modified menusets, and i'd like to use those to preview reaper, except none of the new menu options will show up if i use my standard menus.


on a side note, something i'd like to see reaper 4 have that i'm not sure if it has or i guess even if 3 has for that matter, is a way to glue split take blocks. the glue action isolates one take and removes all other, but what if you split all takes and want to glue them together but keep all takes?

anywas, so far so good for me. only noticed a few subtle things, but from what i've read and seen, looks pretty good so far.
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:04 AM   #19
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Hi,


All i can say is that at first I was slightly underimpressed,given the high innovation reputation, but that was only due to my supreme ignorance ! I now feel like the mexican guy in Blazing Saddles who can just stammer out....Mongol!...Santa Maria!....^^

This is the coolest!!!!! THANK U COCKOS!!!
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:22 AM   #20
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yup.

got to options/layouts/track panel/ and then pick vertical meters.

(the vertical meters option is not available on the default theme though, so you have to pick a different theme to do this).


would be awesome if you could set all tracks to automatically collapse to vertical meters ONLY when the track is too small to hold horizontal meters.
I'm hoping they add this functionality to the default theme. For starters the default theme should support all functions of the DAW and secondly I love the default theme! now for my second question, is it possible to replace the faders in TCP with knobs?
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:24 AM   #21
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+ for:
different mixer, tracks layouts,
mouse+modifiers customisation,
sticking always on top windows,
joined presets,
useful media item properities dialog

but hardly waiting for:
in-project ghost midi-copying,
global quantise/global swing,
reaparts or amalgamation parts or another kind of item-grouping pattern-like behavior.
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:38 AM   #22
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and an Inspector (I really thought that was coming).
Isn't the modeless media item properties window exactly the same as an Inspector ?

Anyway, so much stuff going on, I think I'll have to dive deeper into what's actually possible with the new toys (mouse zone editor ftw !) before I start crying for my personal age-old feature request (edit grouping) - and probably everyone who's feeling the same should do that ;-)

WALTER is ace anyway !
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:56 AM   #23
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I like the new features and I the debs have done a great job. However I was expecting more. I thought the replugs would of had a few changes, spectrum analyser on reaeq would of been nice. Also it would of been nice to see pitch rate automation and item fx autiomation. I thought v4 would have let you dock any panel anywhere. I think the fine details of the GUI still look a bit bad, but I know a good 3rd party theme will fix this. Also why do all the view panels have White backgrounds, it sometimes feels like these panels are part of another app.

I must say though what has been done is amazing and u really appreciate the devs hard work on this and can't wait to see where we are going with Walter.
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Old 12-02-2010, 01:17 AM   #24
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Isn't the modeless media item properties window exactly the same as an Inspector ?

Anyway, so much stuff going on, I think I'll have to dive deeper into what's actually possible with the new toys (mouse zone editor ftw !) before I start crying for my personal age-old feature request (edit grouping) - and probably everyone who's feeling the same should do that ;-)

WALTER is ace anyway !
Already dived, it's safe to cry, don't worry. I've got enough tissues here for the both of us!
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Old 12-02-2010, 01:21 AM   #25
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Some cool new features and i like the new GUI (still trying to figure out where folder tracks have gone!)
I know its early days but i gotta say im pretty disappointed that there is no mention of automation items/clips or spectrum analysis on ReaEQ.
They were the top 2 features on my wishlist.

Also it would great to get those animated gifs that appeared on the last few updates showing a short video of new features. Alot of them i dont fully understand or know how to access.
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Old 12-02-2010, 01:22 AM   #26
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Just tried on a 13.3" laptop and the iconography is way, way too big. So, my first impression: unusable on a small laptop
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Old 12-02-2010, 03:55 AM   #27
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Just tried on a 13.3" laptop and the iconography is way, way too big. So, my first impression: unusable on a small laptop
Yes, I've only tried it on my 12" laptop screen so-far and the mixer seems large and busy.

Hopefully though WALTER should make it easier to build themes that scale down nicely on smaller screens.
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Old 12-02-2010, 04:43 AM   #28
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I am slightly disappointed by the lack of true non-contiguous free area/range selection
Yeeeaah. I'm saddened as well. This kind of feature not existing in the first pre-release pretty much rules it out from ever happening unfortunately.
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Old 12-02-2010, 04:45 AM   #29
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you'll have to use a theme that includes vertical meters as part of a layout for the tcp. I don't think the v4 skin has this yet. It will work with any of the older skins though, I believe. Options>layouts>track panel>vertical meters
I keep seeing people mention how REAPER 3 now has the option for vertical meters on the TCP - when did this happen? Why is there no information on it? There is no Options>layout>track menu path in version 3 that I can find.

Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick? I see that the option is available in version 4 (alpha) - so is the situation that vertical meters are only available in R3 themes when used in R4? If so, it still doesn't work - no chnage to the classic theme when I select the option. And selecting the version 3 theme just gives me the version 4 theme!

Am I to assume that vertical meters are just a concept that someone heard about but yet to be implemented anywhere?
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Old 12-02-2010, 04:59 AM   #30
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i'm still a bit overwhelmed to form an opinion

the default theme was to bright for me so i toned that down & played a little bit but the list keeps intimidating me!

i tested my old theme with my old menus & old key-map & nothing is lost AFAIKT!

so i guess this must be good?

definitely putting some other DAW's to shame!

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Old 12-02-2010, 05:17 AM   #31
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I might be no high end user, but I am surprised that the "complaining machine" is running at full speed already.

Consider the price of the gem and you get now surround support. The mixer is highly improved. And much more will probably be added until the final release. There is really nothing to complain.
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Old 12-02-2010, 05:21 AM   #32
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My first impressions were not too positive. My main points of interest, arranging and MIDI, appear identical to R3 at first glance.

So personally, I am on standby for another month or so to see what happens on my radar.

The changelog, however, looks great (i.e. lots of good stuff)
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Old 12-02-2010, 05:57 AM   #33
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My first impressions were not too positive. My main points of interest, arranging and MIDI, appear identical to R3 at first glance.
Yeah, that was a bit of a disappointment for me too. I hope all the MIDI stuff we have wished for will get added in the final release.
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Old 12-02-2010, 06:14 AM   #34
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I keep seeing people mention how REAPER 3 now has the option for vertical meters on the TCP - when did this happen? Why is there no information on it? There is no Options>layout>track menu path in version 3 that I can find.

Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick? I see that the option is available in version 4 (alpha) - so is the situation that vertical meters are only available in R3 themes when used in R4? If so, it still doesn't work - no chnage to the classic theme when I select the option. And selecting the version 3 theme just gives me the version 4 theme!

Am I to assume that vertical meters are just a concept that someone heard about but yet to be implemented anywhere?
I assume the new GUI and WALTER makes it possible. Someone needs to create the theme for it first.
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Old 12-02-2010, 06:33 AM   #35
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I assume the new GUI and WALTER makes it possible. Someone needs to create the theme for it first.
Okay - I was feeling like I was missing something! I'll look forward to the first theme that utilises it then!
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Old 12-02-2010, 06:40 AM   #36
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is there a way to Right click Marquee with a Mod key in Alpha2?

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Old 12-02-2010, 07:08 AM   #37
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For an Alpha 2 pre-version is a fantastic advance.
So much good suggestions are being presented here and I hope Cockos Team take advantage of the best ones. So, REAPER 4 when launched will be the killer DAW.
Great job Cockos, your work, as ever, is fantastic!
Greetings.
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:07 AM   #38
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Isn't the modeless media item properties window exactly the same as an Inspector ?
Not really. It's a floating properties window. Handy but not the same thing as an inspector. No biggies, it would have been nice though.
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:19 AM   #39
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[...]-Freeze.
I just got a brand new really fast computer, and still think this is highly important.
[B][...]
I'm personally very disappointed that proper freeze is not part of v4. It is really the only thing I want right now...
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:26 AM   #40
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Why are people talking as if this is all finalized? C'mon guys... we've done this a few times now!! You know how it works.
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