Odd stressings in MIDI->sfz rendering

[hmmueller]

(I'm still a newbie at Reaper - searching through forum and internet did not find me an answer ...).

I have a straightforward MIDI file from a notation program (Noteworthy Composer), which I'd like to render "straightforwardly" into an MP3 or OGG.

When I do this (using male/female chorus; or strings - vio1, vio2, viola, celli), the result contains "stresses" on various notes.

As instruments, I use the sfz player with the free "Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra" soundfonts.
As far as I can see, the velocities on all note_offs are consistent (110 or 127).
The only thing that might be not typical is that I use many many Tempo commands in the MIDI to emulate a slight swing rhythm.

... so what could be the reason?

Edit/P.S.: At 0:11.967, a chord is rendered absolutely awfully in both the choir and the strings version, and also when I listen to it directly in Reaper (via ASIO). The same chord is rendered acceptably at least twice in the previous measure (e.g. at 0:9.561). Maybe this is a hint that could point one of you specialists in the right direction?

Edit/P.P.S: The same happens also e.g. with the QiRex SFZ player (e.g. the strange sounding chord at 0:11.967).

Here are links to the relevant files:
http://www.hmmueller.de/MyMusic/2015...kNewYork_B.RPP
http://www.hmmueller.de/MyMusic/2015...kNewYork_B.mid
http://www.hmmueller.de/MyMusic/2015...kNewYork_B.mp3
http://www.hmmueller.de/MyMusic/2015...k_BStrings.mp3

Thanks for any help!

Harald M.

[hmmueller]

Ok - after some experiments, I am quite sure that the tempo events in the MIDI file (which are imported as a tempo map) produce these funny volume changes.

Reason: I removed all the tempo events (MIDI->csv, text editor, csv->MIDI), and now playing or rendering with sfz creates a homogeneous MP3/OGG = the volume does not flutter around (but also the swing is gone ).

It seems I have to write a program that rewrites MIDIs from tempo events to modified tick values ... (but probably someone already wrote such a utility ...).

Links for the interested:
http://www.hmmueller.de/MyMusic/2015...NewYork_BT.RPP
http://www.hmmueller.de/MyMusic/2015...NewYork_BT.mid
http://www.hmmueller.de/MyMusic/2015...NewYork_BT.txt
http://www.hmmueller.de/MyMusic/2015...NewYork_BT.mp3

H.M.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by hmmueller

Ok - after some experiments, I am quite sure that the tempo events in the MIDI file (which are imported as a tempo map) produce these funny volume changes.

Hi H.M., I'm having a hard time understanding why you would have tempo events to create a Swing?

Creating a Swing has nothing to do with the tempo itself but has everything to do with where the notes are placed within the tempo.

In the Reaper Midi Editor you can create your own swing by where the notes are placed.

Basically the swing is created using 8th triplets and you can vary where the third part of a triplet falls to get the swing you want.

[hmmueller]

Originally Posted by Tod

Hi H.M., I'm having a hard time understanding why you would have tempo events to create a Swing?

Thanks for your "pushing question": As probably always, it's "I'm not yet there" or "my process is different".

I played a little with the swing editor - it's quite nice, and I must think how to change my process to use it (it's of course not that easy when the "source" = the incoming MIDI file is still changing - and when isn't it? -, so I need some sort of programmatic "swing editing", because of course the swing distortions must only be applied to certain areas marked in the score, e.g. not where triplets are notated ... I'll try to get there).

(Still, I found a tiny bug in the swing editor feature - if one has a MIDI editor with multiple tracks, when stepping through the tracks, the combo box keeps showing "swing", but the "Strength" bar vanishes ... it seems that internally, the MIDI editor forgets that the grid is in "swing mode". But that's only a tiny hiccup).

Still, that the combination Reaper+sf player (I dare not guess who's at fault) changes the volume of playback at or near tempo changes is not nice - after all, a (not so fine-grained, but still) tempo map is necessary quite often ...

H.M.

[Tod]

Hi again H.M., please don't think I was trying to push or be sarcastic, and please forgive me if I appeared that way.

Originally Posted by hmmueller

Still, that the combination Reaper+sf player (I dare not guess who's at fault) changes the volume of playback at or near tempo changes is not nice - after all, a (not so fine-grained, but still) tempo map is necessary quite often ...

RightClick on your midi items and select Item Properties to see what time base they are at. I don't know if that will have anything to do with it but it might.

[hmmueller]

On the contrary - gently pushing a newbie like me into the right direction is a good thing! - there is no way I would find out all the features myself ...

RightClick on your midi items and select Item Properties to see what time base they are at

It says "Track/project default timebase" ... whatever this means?

Thx!
H.M.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by hmmueller

It says "Track/project default timebase" ... whatever this means?

Okay, that means it's using Timebase set up in Project Settings.

In the Main Toolbar just above the tracks, there is a button that takes you to Project Settings>Project Settings where you should see a window that looks like the linked picture.

There you'll see a down menu for "Timebase for items/envelopes/markers". There are three different settings there you can experiment with.

It also has a "Timebase for tempo/time signature envelope" with two settings you can try.



Check that and we'll go from there.

[Tod]

Hi H.M., I downloaded your Reaper file to check it out, and I think 8th Triplets will work pretty well.

I ended up loading your mp3 into the project and got the timing from that for the first 24 measures of the project.

From that I went ahead and setup your midi tracks using 8th Triplets for the first 24 bars. I think it corresponds pretty well to your mp3.

You can download it from the link below, probably just right click on it and then use Save as or Save link as. Or maybe just click on it.

https://stash.reaper.fm/23860/NewYork%201.RPP

You'll have to reload your sfz player FX, because I used Kontakt to work with it.

Remember I only did 24 measures. Also the BPM works out real close to 100BPM.

[Tod]

I just got to thinking, it might help if I explain a little how I got the midi quantized to the 8th Triplets.

Since the current midi (your midi file) is quantized pretty close to straight 8th notes, they might not line up in the right 8th Triplet position. To accommodate this, I selected the notes and slid them all ahead a little bit before I quantized. That way when you quantize, the straight 8th notes will go to the correct 8th triplet position and the other notes will still go to the correct beats.

Something I didn't do and maybe should have, is to have simply quantized everything 100% to straight 8ths first. Once they are quantized to straight 8ths, you should be able to select all the notes, and shift them slightly ahead, then quantize it all to 8th triplets.

The way I did it was one track at a time, and just did smaller sections.

[hmmueller]

Hi Tod - many many thanks for your analysis ... Unfortunately, because my sister right now is very very sick, and I have to support her as well as my mother, I do not find that much time for my music and especially Reaper activities - still, I read and collect your advice with interest, and will reply hopefully soon ...
H.M.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by hmmueller

Hi Tod - many many thanks for your analysis ... Unfortunately, because my sister right now is very very sick, and I have to support her as well as my mother, I do not find that much time for my music and especially Reaper activities - still, I read and collect your advice with interest, and will reply hopefully soon ...
H.M.

I'm really truly sorry to hear about your sister, I've been there and can feel your pain.

Just so that you know I did go through and complete the midi tracks, you can get the project file in the link below. There were a few parts I wasn't sure of but I think I got it pretty close.

I hope and pray for your sister's recovery and may the Lord be with you and your mother at this time.

https://stash.reaper.fm/23861/NewYork%202%20All.RPP